best persimmon woods before their demise?

[Dill Pickleson]

im looking to get a set of persimmons, most likely driver 3w 5w just for my own using pleasure.

 

i was wondering what were the best and latest ones before their obvious departure?

 

how big did the persimmon driver heads get, cc's?

 

i was hoping to get a nice set of ping persimmons, but would consider whatever ones you guys say were the best before they died off, any suggestions.

 

or if you could tell me the last ping persimmon woods that were made.

[mat562]

Most persimmon drivers stuck to a pretty constant headsize down the years and were/are somthing around 150cc typically.

 

It's probably not much use to you in the US, but if you're looking for a matching 1/3/5 set, some good examples are the old Mizuno Tour Proven line, the Maxfli Pro Specials and the old Hogan Apex woods. All date back to the late '80s and are excellent examples of persimmon woods. MacGregor also did some nice ones, principally the old Muirfield line from about the same period. . Afficianados always wanted a 'U' shaped grain pattern in the toe and those woods were the most highly-prized from an aesthetic point of view. Persimmon woods from the late '80s are perhaps the most easily found and aren't prohibitively expensive like some of the older, more revered models.

 

Driver-wise, if money's no object, the ones to have are the old MacGregor models such as Faldo and Couples played for years, albeit you'll need deep pockets to get hold of one of those.

 

I've got a Joe Powell driver in my cupboard that my father bought me in 1988 that's a much-prized posession and a cracking driver.

 

The Wood Brothers Texan driver is one club I've been looking to get hold of for a long time, but I haven't managed to find one over this side of the Atlantic yet at anything other than a comedy price..

 

Ping never made persimmon woods as far as I'm aware but their laminated woods (such as the Eye 2) were popular back in the day and were good clubs - even if they were a bit of an acquired taste, shape-wise.

[astamm8]

i think the pings were maple not persimmon.

[Mattro]

True on the pings being maple. The Hogans were the Cat's meow when it came to persimmon headed woods.

[jaskanski]

Joe Powell made a nice ones. Mizuno world master is a classic. Or maybe Harry Busson if you're lucky.

[Dill Pickleson]

yah i shoulda been more specific, i was looking for like a driver 3 and 5 on the bay for under $100, it was the ping eye2s i think i was looking at, but ill look into some of the suggestions above, thanks

[dlygrisse]

All of the above were great clubs, with Hogans being one of the more popular with good players in my neck of the woods. Cleveland made some really nice woods as well, it seems to me that Davis Love and some others used them on tour during the later days of persimmon. I would think the best quality "modern" persimmons were Joe Powell, Cleveland, Powerbilt and Hogan. Macgregors were great clubs from the 1940's through the 1960's.

 

Just like today there were many companies that made clubs, you could find good ones from Spaulding, Wilson, PGA, MacGregor/Tommy Armour, Cleveland, Mizuno, Hogan etc. Some were better than others depending on the year and era, and the quality of the wood grain it's self. Some of the old laminted maples (think block of plywood) were actually very good performers and actually more conssitant than persimmon and more durable to boot. They could be manufactered to more constant tolerences whereas persimmon could have differnt hardnesses and grain structure, which could move the sweetspot, and weighting. Often times when a pro found a wood they liked the feel of they would not change because they could never get it to feel the same as an old favorite. There is also no doubt that persimmon looked much better than maple as well, and had a feel that was unmatched.

[play4him]

My favorites persimmon drivers were the Toney Pennas. I still have about 4-5 Toney Penna drivers, and a few Jack Nicklaus MacGregors, as well as a Ben Crenshaw Cleveland Classic. To me, you can't beat the beauty of a nice persimmon wood.

[Night train]

Lots of good ones including all of those mentioned. Most of the more cherished models on tour were vintage Macgregors made between the early 50's and early 60's.......many of these saw action well into the 1990's. Nicklaus played virtually his entire career with the same Macgregor three wood. With Toney Penna and Tommy Armour as designers, Macgregor put out some truly beautiful woods........a lot of them.

 

I've still got about 25 of them ranging from Macs, Powerbilt's, Cleveland Classics, Toney Penna's, a Kenneth Smith, and a Woods Brothers Texan. It's a pity they are all obsolete today. I think in a lot of ways golf was more enjoyable back then.

[shuttle1]

I have a set of Palmer Standards from 1985... Beautiful.

 

Older Persimmons that have not been taken care of, stored improperly can become brittle.

 

Be careful as they are easy to crack in half.

[blade_man]

WOW! memories! I have two sets of the Palmer peerless woods, including driver, 3,4 and 5 wood! They are just so beautiful to look at, some of the above are so much like art!

[sgordon01]

I learned to play with a eye 2 five wood

 

Most balls were hit off mats, the entire bottom of the club is green.....

[Golfingbanker]

I got a set of Lynx persimmon for Christmas when I was 13. They were beautiful and I had to wait for at least a month before the weather broke to hit them.

[Mr Putts]

Louisville Golf still makes wood headed woods, putters and even hybrids. Clearly not in the under $100 category, but pretty cool to visit.

 

http://www.louisvillegolf.com/index.php

[theothertwo]

Powerbilt Citation Persimmon Woods

[FG51s]

Powerbilt Citation will probably be the easiest to find (w/brass backweight)

 

My Clevelands are RC85s...1,3,4 w/two tone red/white fiber inserts

[FG51s]

Louisville Golf still makes wood headed woods, putters and even hybrids. Clearly not in the under $100 category, but pretty cool to visit.

 

http://www.louisvillegolf.com/index.php

 

 

+1

[BJL]

Wood Bros. Texas Sole Plate Driver - beautiful.

[Dill Pickleson]

i want a 460 cc persimmon lol

[rmcole1]

Toney Penna Tommy Armour Macgregor Powerbuilt

Many had different color stains as options and made the club look unique.

I remember getting a Tony Penna with "Golden Mist" finish. The finsh and the grain of the wood were the most important besides feel. You wanted the circle of the wood grain to meet at the tip of the club's toe.

[XYB34A]

Contact Louisville Golf, they have a website online. They actually made Ben Hogan, Wilson Staff and Macgregor Persimmon Woods and put the decals on them for these companies. You can to this day go to Louisville Golf located in Louisville Kentucky and get Ben Hogan speed slot 3, 4 and 5 woods. They dont have any drivers. They wont say hogan on them though. They will just look like them. Their other products online are the best you can get in 2008 in the Persimmon line.

 

Woods dryrot. Wood rots, eveyone knows that. SO if you think u can buy some 1982 model and play with it, you can, but they will deteriotate quickly. Buy some Lousiville Golf, Joe Powell or some company that is still making them.

 

Ping did make Persimmon woods. But these were very early models and didnt work out. The clubs he made after the persimmon trouble were laminates. All the eye, eye2 zing blondes were all laminates. Its been so long since real wood woods have been sold. That I would hazard to guess you would have to be in your middle 30's to even remember them, and older than that to have played with them much. I can still remember chipping the 3 wood of my best friends older brother in 1973 and how upset he was over it.

 

For all that dont know, Laminate is a piece of plywood that is shaped like a golf club. That is why you see the lines in the face like the edge of a piece of plywood.

[tonys6]

Persimmons that I have owned over the years:

 

Palmer Peerless

Palmer Standard

Toney Penna

PowerBilt Citation

Hogan Apex

Wood Bros

Joe Powell

 

Never tried to MacGregor or Wilson/Haig Ultra persimmons.

 

Nowadays, Joe Powell and Louisville Golf produce super high quality persimmons.

 

Factoid. At the end of the persimmon era, there was so much young or bad persimmon being produced that the quality near the end was pretty bad except for the high-end makers (Wood Bros, Joe Powell).

 

Did any of you try the MacGregor reissues of the classic during the 1980s? It would break your heart - beautiful designs with lousy persimmon, poor staining and coating.

 

My favorite were the Hogan Apex during the Tom Kite glory years at Hogan. Beautiful with the Hogan Apex shaft! I went to buy a second set and when the came in, the finish looked like a one year old took a paintbrush and did it. So much for Hogan quality control on the woods (done somewhere else than in Fort Worth). But the first set was spectacular!!!!!!

[xan_user]

yah i shoulda been more specific, i was looking for like a driver 3 and 5 on the bay for under $100, it was the ping eye2s i think i was looking at, but ill look into some of the suggestions above, thanks

 

I have an "extra" set of those...

 

Nice sound, and very solid feel. Slightly 'over sized'.

 

I would love a new set , with fresh wood.

[hogan_speedslot]

If you want to game some old school WOODEN woods and there are many, MANY still playable vintage woods out there, I recommend:

 

Anything MacGregor (1950s-1970s) Particularly the Eye-O-Matic's.

Wilson Staff. Made some nice looking and durable persimmon and laminated woods through the late '80s and early '90s.

Cleveland Classic: Many of their persimmon/maple woods are identical to the MacGregor's of the '40s and '50s and these were made in the 1980s and 90s.

Ben Hogan: They made actual persimmon woods in the early years (the Precision model woods strongly resembled the MacGregors of the day), but switched to maple after 1964-65. Plus most models between 1957-1980s had the speedslot which was revolutionary in the persimmon/maple wood era. Hogan's are my favorite!! Usually had the black finish/red insert, but could be found with mahogany/cherry finishes and the occasional black insert.

PING: As someone said earlier in the post, I agree that they are an "acquired taste" but very nice looking when in good condition, especially the blonde finished one's.

 

 

Joe Powell: I've never tried, but would love to.

Louisville Golf: Only got an Alex Smith hickory putter. havn't tried the drivers/woods yet.

[buggyman]

I swore I would never hit metal woods and always hit the wood drivers better. Finally switched in 95. The best I had was a Peerless Pete. One day I dit a drive and it split in two. I always wanted a Wood Bros Texan but could not afford one at the time.

 

There is one on ebay. man they are still great looking.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-BLACK-INK-BLOND-W...1QQcmdZViewItem

[shepdog]

Was always partial to the Wilson Staff Strata-bloc drivers myself.

[Awsi Dooger]

Hogan Apex from the '80s were my favorite woods ever. For whatever reason, I preferred the non-speed slot. They seemed more substantial and less gimmicky.

 

I purchased some excellent Powerbilt Citation woods from Golfworks in '96. I still have the 3 wood but the 5 wood cracked on the range a few years ago. For the driver I purchased a Powerbilt Super Citation model, at 240cc the largest persimmon I've ever had. That club looks pristine.

[gvogel]

[quote name='theothertwo' post='1228676' date='Aug 25 2008, 09:29 PM']Powerbilt Citation Persimmon Woods[/quote]

The Powerbilts were really good.
Toney Penna's were too deep faced for me.
My absolute favorites were Spauldings - with a reddish stain. Gorgeous, and they were fairly shallow, which made them more playable, for me.

[RobotDoctor]

I think that the Wood Bros Texan was the best made persimmon driver in the 80s and 90s, the time of the persimmon demise. While there were many offerings, nothing compared to a Wood Bros Texan. Cleveland Classics made the next best woods but they were more volume and did not cure the persimmon like Wood Bros. Also, the availability of "old growth,"
or mature, persimmon was not readily available and when found was too costly so manufacturers used immature persimmon and dry (or heat) aging to expedite the hardening process. This made the persimmon woods of the 80s and 90s brittle.

The best persimmon woods that were ever made (IMO) were the MacGregor woods from the late 40s and early/mid 50s. The Tommy Armour 945/693 and the M85/M75/M43 were probably the benchmark of persimmon woods. I have been lucky enough to own several of these drivers as well as a few sets and nothing compares to hitting a balata golf ball with one of these classic MacGregors, nothing. I played a few contemporary woods, mostly Cleveland Classics, but nothing hit the ball like the M85TW I once owned. Maybe the best MacGregor driver I owned was a 1954 Toney Penna TPT Special. That driver (pardon the pun) was special and it was LONG! This is the single club I regretted selling the most. I absolutely loved that driver and nothing compared to the distance and feel of this one.

For all the golfers who never felt the sensation of a perfectly struck balata golf ball in the center of the fiber insert of old growth persimmon, you have no idea what you are missing. That feeling, the vibration, and the sound is unlike anything in the game of golf.

[freddiec]

Robot,
I agree with you. The early 50s Oil Hardened Macs are without question the best quality persimmon you could play. I've bought some through the years and am fortunate to have found one thats really great. (my M85W), still has all the original specs including the leather grip. I've played it a few rounds this year with a balata and it still has all its life. I'm very tempted to rip off the leather and install a 80s style green victory, but am worried I'd regrit it. The club is about 13 and 2/8ths ounces and has a Swing Weight of D2. (I just weighed all my persimmons the other day) The shaft is the old tourney and its a weak stiff. When you catch it just right with a balata the feel in your hands is pure magic. The feel you had as a kid growing up. People who have never played persimmon for a good period of time, probably wouldnt' understand.
I've hit the Texan a few times. A different feel all together than the old Macs, but also a super solid feel. Great sticks, thats for sure.