Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1840979' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:41 PM'][quote name='matthewb' post='1840962' date='Jul 24 2009, 09:35 AM']You're evading the issue of how many falsehoods *you* have posted on the site. And some malicious falsehoods, at that.[/quote]


You said "How about for once you supply some/any evidence at all. Can you do that?"

So I did.

Now you're asking me to prove everything I've said on this site? Me thinks you should "get real".
[/quote]


You're continuing to evade & deflect.

I didn't ask you to supply evidence, etc. I didn't ask you to prove everything. Please stop with the falsehoods.

Let's be specific as you still haven't addressed the following:

[quote name='matthewb' post='1835864' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:09 AM'][quote name='biscuity' post='1835795' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:46 AM'][quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.
[/quote]

Please elaborate.

Or are you attempting to create a lie?

Your own ethics & integrity may be at issue.
[/quote]

So, again, please elaborate.

Or are you simply satisfied to throw incendiary innuendos and then run for cover?

[biscuity]

[quote name='matthewb' post='1841013' date='Jul 24 2009, 09:56 AM'][quote name='biscuity' post='1840979' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:41 PM'][quote name='matthewb' post='1840962' date='Jul 24 2009, 09:35 AM']You're evading the issue of how many falsehoods *you* have posted on the site. And some malicious falsehoods, at that.[/quote]


You said "How about for once you supply some/any evidence at all. Can you do that?"

So I did.

Now you're asking me to prove everything I've said on this site? Me thinks you should "get real".
[/quote]


You're continuing to evade & deflect.

I didn't ask you to supply evidence, etc. I didn't ask you to prove everything. Please stop with the falsehoods.

Let's be specific as you still haven't addressed the following:

[quote name='matthewb' post='1835864' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:09 AM'][quote name='biscuity' post='1835795' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:46 AM'][quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.
[/quote]

Please elaborate.

Or are you attempting to create a lie?

Your own ethics & integrity may be at issue.
[/quote]

So, again, please elaborate.

Or are you simply satisfied to throw incendiary innuendos and then run for cover?
[/quote]

RobotDoctor said that "This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received."

I agreed with his statement, and added that it also includes the other side of the story, which in this case involves the original supplier of the Classic Mini. Is the putter on Bob Bettinardis desk an "official" Classic Mini that would be given a COA if he sent it in to Scotty Cameron? Should it be counted as 1 of the 5 Classic Minis if it was only a production sample? Could he sell it on eBay if he wanted? Would he be sued by Acushnet if he did that?

[scottym]

[quote name='foregasim' post='1840555' date='Jul 24 2009, 06:30 AM']ScottyM, or should I call you Bill Vogeney or the Vog as you go by on other sites.[/quote]

This unfounded assertion is about as accurate as all your other posts JR-

My name is Michael, I go by the TCC name MSUPO, and live in Canada.

I've never met Bill Vogeney.

You have insulteed me more times than I can remember on PT.(Before you banned me)

I have never threatened anybody or even used the word sex in any PM.

I will print the PM for all to see if you like.

Michael

[tpariff]

[quote name='HeadonaStick' post='1840943' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:29 PM'][quote name='Lefty Putt Righty' post='1840933' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:24 PM'][quote name='HeadonaStick' post='1840918' date='Jul 24 2009, 11:20 AM'][quote name='Lefty Putt Righty' post='1840904' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:14 PM'][quote name='tpariff' post='1840820' date='Jul 24 2009, 10:39 AM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='1840801' date='Jul 24 2009, 11:31 AM'][quote name='tpariff' post='1840777' date='Jul 24 2009, 11:22 AM']But I DO have an issue when they try to argue that it "feels" different or performs different.
Kevin[/quote]

So, for arguments sake.... Same materials and specs, 1 has a "stamp" and the other doesn't.... The performance should be the exact same. I don't know how you could question that.

BUT.... full circle to the "confidence" conversation. That "Circle T" putter could be so heavliy coveted by the owner that the putter actually "feels" better than any other putter in the world.

As I always say, "feel isn't real." What I feel with a certain club isn't going to be the same for the next golfer.

But as stated before, if the putter "feels" great and you love it more than anything, but you still putt like Happy Gilmore......... then what?
[/quote]

We (not you and I, but people in general) could go round and round about this until the end of time. But if the metal is the same and it comes off the same machine with the same specs, then I don't know how it COULD "feel" different.

Might the CT stamp inspire confidence? Possibly. But that has nothing to do with the putter itself, but rather the person using it. That person has to ask himself if such confidence is worth $2,000.

Sounds like we're on the same page.

Kevin

Edit: with regard to your Happy Gilmore comment...there are MANY people gaming expensive CT putters who can't break 90 and routinely have a bunch of three putts. I'm not saying that's wrong. Again, it's their money to spend as they wish. But it's obvious to me that the CT putter isn't doing its job inspiring enough confidence in that person to putt better. I'll go out on a limb and say that a 25 handicap would putt the same (poorly, in most cases) with a Tour putter and an OTR putter.
[/quote]
Case in point, my teammate and professor took to Medical Equipment reps to play golf. My Buddy said they were having lunch at the turn when one of the reps noticed my buddie studio newport headcover and said, "Hey i have a cameron too, not sure what it is, it was given to me by my boss" My buddy goes over to check it out, CT 009 Twistneck He then tells me how the guy proceeds to card a 114
[/quote]
Why the assumption that you have to be a scratch golfer to appreciate nice things?
[/quote]
I wasnt saying that at all. Just thought it was a funny story because the guy didnt seem to care at all what putter he had. I guess I should have went to walmart and seen if he would have trade putters with me
[/quote]
Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean you personally... it just seems to be the overall wisdom that if you are a high handicapper that nice putters don't belong in your hands.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone is saying they don't belong in the hands of high handicap players. But I don't believe that a CT stamp on a $2,500 putter inspires enough confidence to make that 25 handicapper a 20 just because of the stamp. Again, I'm talking about putters that have a Tour and OTR version of the same putter and the only difference is the stamp or paint fill. There's a reason someone is a 25 handicap, and it's not because of a stamp or paint color.

[HeadonaStick]

The way i take it, the lower your handicap, the more you appreciate it for what it is, a golf club, all they guys on tour are using them to put the ball in the hole, seems like the guys who are making all the noise with profit margins couldnt make a putt into this

 

 

just a general assumption

I see your point. I have a mid-high handicap but I enjoy and appreciate my putters for what they are. The fact is, for my game, I'd probably make the same number of putts with my Cleveland putter as I do with any one of my Mills, but I enjoy putting with my Mills more than any other putter I've tried. Its an entire experience for me - tracking down the Mills I can afford with the stamps or finish etc. I like and then putting it into play. I like cleaning them and I appreciate the lines and work that went into the putters. I like having a very small part of the history that is Mills. So my handicap doesn't have a bearing on my enjoyment and appreciation of the putters.

 

I hope that is what most Cameron collectors enjoy about their collections. I suspect there are more than a few who only appreciate the price tag on the putters. I also suspect that is the reason behind the animosity many feel toward the Cameron world - Cameron is trying to manufacture that mistique using what are ethically questionable tactics and the resources of Acushnet to buy tour counts etc. rather than let is naturally evolve from a unique, handcrafted product.

 

Anyway, I am mostly indifferent to this argument. I have enjoyed this thread from what I'll call a passing curiousity and I am intrigued by the stories being told. In the end, I don't care too much that Cameron has "borrowed" many of Mills designs for personally selfish reasons - those same money loaded collectors aren't after the real thing so I can still afford my Mills!

 

Sorry to derail the main event... carry on :D

 

I don't think anyone is saying they don't belong in the hands of high handicap players. But I don't believe that a CT stamp on a $2,500 putter inspires enough confidence to make that 25 handicapper a 20 just because of the stamp. Again, I'm talking about putters that have a Tour and OTR version of the same putter and the only difference is the stamp or paint fill. There's a reason someone is a 25 handicap, and it's not because of a stamp or paint color.

 

Agreed... I am living proof! ;)

 

[edit: combine posts, remove nested quotes]

[PixlPutterman]

I completely agree with you. There are just some that dont respect the game the way you do. They see it as a business

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1841033' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:06 PM'][quote name='matthewb' post='1841013' date='Jul 24 2009, 09:56 AM'][quote name='biscuity' post='1840979' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:41 PM'][quote name='matthewb' post='1840962' date='Jul 24 2009, 09:35 AM']You're evading the issue of how many falsehoods *you* have posted on the site. And some malicious falsehoods, at that.[/quote]


You said "How about for once you supply some/any evidence at all. Can you do that?"

So I did.

Now you're asking me to prove everything I've said on this site? Me thinks you should "get real".
[/quote]


You're continuing to evade & deflect.

I didn't ask you to supply evidence, etc. I didn't ask you to prove everything. Please stop with the falsehoods.

Let's be specific as you still haven't addressed the following:

[quote name='matthewb' post='1835864' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:09 AM'][quote name='biscuity' post='1835795' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:46 AM'][quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.
[/quote]

Please elaborate.

Or are you attempting to create a lie?

Your own ethics & integrity may be at issue.
[/quote]

So, again, please elaborate.

Or are you simply satisfied to throw incendiary innuendos and then run for cover?
[/quote]

RobotDoctor said that "This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received."

I agreed with his statement, and added that it also includes the other side of the story, which in this case involves the original supplier of the Classic Mini. Is the putter on Bob Bettinardis desk an "official" Classic Mini that would be given a COA if he sent it in to Scotty Cameron? Should it be counted as 1 of the 5 Classic Minis if it was only a production sample? Could he sell it on eBay if he wanted? Would he be sued by Acushnet if he did that?
[/quote]

And now you've just done something that you constantly complain about in others: making accusations without facts.

What you've posted concerning Bob Bettinardi are malicious conjectures.

Given that you continue to post malicious insituations, conjectures, and innuendos, you really need to get off your high horse.

Treat others as you wish Scotty Cameron to be treated and you'll have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you're a nasty hypocrite.

[PixlPutterman]

Are you scotty himself?

Whats with all the big words too.

I think biscuity has plenty of legs to stand on, alot of what he said is his opinion.......you know what forget it, biscuity is doing a fine job defending himself, with regular words i might add

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='Lefty Putt Righty' post='1841072' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:22 PM']Are you scotty himself?

Whats with all the big words too.

I think biscuity has plenty of legs to stand on, alot of what he said is his opinion.......you know what forget it, biscuity is doing a fine job defending himself, with regular words i might add[/quote]

What particular words do you find so intimidating?

[PixlPutterman]

Non actually, just think its funny that you have made no ground with him and he has moved on and in every one of your posts you are using words like conjectures, insinuations, ect.

I just feel like every post of yours is the same and you are acting like you are being personally attacked

[TM golf guy]

[quote name='scottym' post='1841041' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:08 PM'][quote name='foregasim' post='1840555' date='Jul 24 2009, 06:30 AM']ScottyM, or should I call you Bill Vogeney or the Vog as you go by on other sites.[/quote]

This unfounded assertion is about as accurate as all your other posts JR-

My name is Michael, I go by the TCC name MSUPO, and live in Canada.

I've never met Bill Vogeney.

You have insulteed me more times than I can remember on PT.(Before you banned me)

I have never threatened anybody or even used the word sex in any PM.

I will print the PM for all to see if you like.

Michael
[/quote]
'
Hi Vog. You and your buddy Biscuit, AKA Rand, have caused quite a ruckus on this thread. I guess you guys are just trying to protect your "investments." Truth hurts, doesn't it?

[Redman]

[quote name='scottym' post='1841041' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:08 PM'][quote name='foregasim' post='1840555' date='Jul 24 2009, 06:30 AM']ScottyM, or should I call you Bill Vogeney or the Vog as you go by on other sites.[/quote]

This unfounded assertion is about as accurate as all your other posts JR-

My name is Michael, I go by the TCC name MSUPO, and live in Canada.

I've never met Bill Vogeney.

You have insulteed me more times than I can remember on PT.(Before you banned me)

I have never threatened anybody or even used the word sex in any PM.

I will print the PM for all to see if you like.

Michael
[/quote]

Ohhh someone with a grudge to fill!

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='Lefty Putt Righty' post='1841107' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:40 PM']Non actually, just think its funny that you have made no ground with him and he has moved on and in every one of your posts you are using words like conjectures, insinuations, ect.

I just feel like every post of yours is the same and you are acting like you are being personally attacked[/quote]

That's entertaining! Thanks for the levity.

[stage1350]

[quote name='scottym' post='1841041' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:08 PM'][quote name='foregasim' post='1840555' date='Jul 24 2009, 06:30 AM']ScottyM, or should I call you Bill Vogeney or the Vog as you go by on other sites.[/quote]

This unfounded assertion is about as accurate as all your other posts JR-

My name is Michael, I go by the TCC name MSUPO, and live in Canada.

I've never met Bill Vogeney.

You have insulteed me more times than I can remember on PT.(Before you banned me)

I have never threatened anybody or even used the word sex in any PM.

I will print the PM for all to see if you like.

Michael
[/quote]

I find it very ironic that you come on this site and 100% of your posts have been negative and attacking another member.

Is it because you AREN'T allowed to post this way on TCC that you feel so free to be negative over here? Maybe that site's not all it's cracked up to be, huh?

Are you actually here to discuss golf, or do you just have a bone to pick with "JR" who you think is Foregasim?

To quote the Cameron guys: "I don't understand the hatred." Apparently ScottyM understands the hatred just fine.

You TCC guys are setting a fine example over here.

[oregongolf]

I'd bet dollars to donuts this is going to get locked down if the "us vs them" keeps piling on.

I really, really don't want to see that!

[Huntingchris0000]

I find it very interesting that scottyM (Vog) joined on July 14 of this year

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='CallawayOnly' post='1841317' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:20 PM'][quote name='easyyy' post='1840907' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:14 PM']3,2,1
This thread is bringing the negative meter to an all time high. We are thinking of locking her up.[/quote]
I agree! I lost confidence sometime ago that we would ever get the truth on any of the subjects addressed here in this thread.
Both sides have lost credibility with me by hidding behind their PC's and not allowing their true identies to be known. Hard to know now who is telling the truth when you have no idea who is doing the talking.
Both sides have lost this debate.
[/quote]

If you lost confidence and need some, I suggest you buy a Cameron Tour putter.

[Arafel]

[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1841331' date='Jul 24 2009, 03:30 PM'][quote name='CallawayOnly' post='1841317' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:20 PM'][quote name='easyyy' post='1840907' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:14 PM']3,2,1
This thread is bringing the negative meter to an all time high. We are thinking of locking her up.[/quote]
I agree! I lost confidence sometime ago that we would ever get the truth on any of the subjects addressed here in this thread.
Both sides have lost credibility with me by hidding behind their PC's and not allowing their true identies to be known. Hard to know now who is telling the truth when you have no idea who is doing the talking.
Both sides have lost this debate.
[/quote]

If you lost confidence and need some, I suggest you buy a Cameron Tour putter.


[/quote]


Good one!


That's funny right thar. I don't care who you are.

I feel like this thread has had an epic nature to it and I'm glad it happened. I think this thread is going to go down in putter history, kind of like the one in Jick's signature.

For those that want this thread to die, all they have to do is stop posting in it. They just can't seem to help themselves though.

[Goldenhawk]

[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1841331' date='Jul 24 2009, 03:30 PM'][quote name='CallawayOnly' post='1841317' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:20 PM'][quote name='easyyy' post='1840907' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:14 PM']3,2,1
This thread is bringing the negative meter to an all time high. We are thinking of locking her up.[/quote]
I agree! I lost confidence sometime ago that we would ever get the truth on any of the subjects addressed here in this thread.
Both sides have lost credibility with me by hidding behind their PC's and not allowing their true identies to be known. Hard to know now who is telling the truth when you have no idea who is doing the talking.
Both sides have lost this debate.
[/quote]

If you lost confidence and need some, I suggest you buy a Cameron Tour putter.


[/quote]

Or get the next best thing.....a limited edition SC.

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='j0npeterson' post='1841189' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:21 PM']I'd bet dollars to donuts this is going to get locked down if the "us vs them" keeps piling on.

I really, really don't want to see that![/quote]

The odds are stacked in your favor. I'd bet it up if I were you.

Seems to me...There's so little interest on their own site, they need our members numbers just to have someone to listen to them. Their own site wouldn't tolerate the bickering, squabbling, and their petty arguments, which by the way, are the basis for their topic over here. Their site would have deleted and banned their members, ( ) for even attempting those very same topics over which we have so blindly allowed over here for the past month.

Have Fun!

[tpariff]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' post='1841373' date='Jul 24 2009, 03:55 PM'][quote name='j0npeterson' post='1841189' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:21 PM']I'd bet dollars to donuts this is going to get locked down if the "us vs them" keeps piling on.

I really, really don't want to see that![/quote]

The odds are stacked in your favor. I'd bet it up if I were you.

Seems to me...There's so little interest on their own site, they need our members numbers just to have someone to listen to them. Their own site wouldn't tolerate the bickering, squabbling, and their petty arguments, which by the way, are the basis for their topic over here. Their site would have deleted and banned their members, ( ) for even attempting those very same topics over which we have so blindly allowed over here for the past month.

Have Fun!
[/quote]

Thanks for allowing an open forum where all sides of a discussion can be presented!

Kevin

[Mr3Wiggle]

Ohhh let the children play. If you close this thread down, the same bickering will start in another...like it always does.

[Redman]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' post='1841373' date='Jul 24 2009, 03:55 PM'][quote name='j0npeterson' post='1841189' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:21 PM']I'd bet dollars to donuts this is going to get locked down if the "us vs them" keeps piling on.

I really, really don't want to see that![/quote]

The odds are stacked in your favor. I'd bet it up if I were you.

Seems to me...There's so little interest on their own site, they need our members numbers just to have someone to listen to them. Their own site wouldn't tolerate the bickering, squabbling, and their petty arguments, which by the way, are the basis for their topic over here. Their site would have deleted and banned their members, ( ) for even attempting those very same topics over which we have so blindly allowed over here for the past month.

Have Fun!
[/quote]

Great post!! And yes....thanks for having a forum where we can voice our opinions. Of course it gets heated from time to time, but since when in life have you ever seen people (especially men) that are passionate about something not get that way? We are like that with women, sports, alcohol, women, alcohol, and apparently putters, haha. Let's keep this thing going.

Foregasim, I know it isn't your duty to keep supplying information but if you could keep doing it it would greatly be appreciated. What else ya got?

[bell812]

I really wish I woulda known some of this before I bought my Squareback.

[CPSOX]

Lol....now this is getting bizarre. Great times!

[rrkman]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' post='1841373' date='Jul 24 2009, 03:55 PM'][quote name='j0npeterson' post='1841189' date='Jul 24 2009, 01:21 PM']I'd bet dollars to donuts this is going to get locked down if the "us vs them" keeps piling on.

I really, really don't want to see that![/quote]

The odds are stacked in your favor. I'd bet it up if I were you.

Seems to me...There's so little interest on their own site, they need our members numbers just to have someone to listen to them. Their own site wouldn't tolerate the bickering, squabbling, and their petty arguments, which by the way, are the basis for their topic over here. Their site would have deleted and banned their members, ( ) for even attempting those very same topics over which we have so blindly allowed over here for the past month.

Have Fun!
[/quote]

Sorry but I don't see the humor in having these people fight like teenagers (no offense to the teenagers) while making a mockery of your site. This thread had some very interesting info early on but it is really just a good old fashion mudslinging now. I'm glad that this site allows freedom of discussion but I think the last 10 pages or so go way beyond that. And I agree with CallawayOnly - most of the people in this topic have lost credibility with me. There are certainly some that posted facts and stayed respectful....kudos to you. But most of you have just jumped on the bandwagons and acted like bullies....you should be proud.

[tangojay]

[quote name='jick' post='1840768' date='Jul 24 2009, 11:17 AM']Now people are doubting as to whether the quantities of limited editions are as scarce as they supposed to be. They are now made aware of Cameron's revisionist history, such as pulling his very own comparison of GSS to SSS, or his modifying entries in his registry for favored clients, and other questionable practices.

Over the pages of this thread, I have posted excerpts from his interviews at various points of his career. All I can say is that he is clearly an egotistical fellow.

-He claims to improve on the designs of Mills and Karsten.

-He feels many are jealous at him.

-He seeks thank-yous from other puttermakers because he feels he paved the way.

-He prices his putters high because he believes people will have more faith in a product they paid a higher price for.

As I have said in many posts previously, we should always try to follow Cameron's train of thought if we are to understand him. But it is truly a difficult train of thought to follow because only Cameron thinks that way -- that people are jealous of him, that he paved the way for today's puttermakers, and that he is improving on Karsten and Mills.

Questionable marketing practices, ambiguous statements about quantities products, and his massive ego and high-handedness --- surely it would be hard to separate the person from the product, and Cameron is losing a lot of old fans and hardly gaining any new ones.

The fall is truly upon us now.[/quote]

Once again I have to plagiarize what I can only describe as a[b] great[/b] post, which leaves me very little to add.

Thank you Cameron and Cameron Fanatics for sending me to a putter maker who makes a putter that I have the utmost confidence in for less than most car payments, and better quality.

[RobotDoctor]

Good grief, car payment?

[xxio]

Finally a venue/thread for CameronCollector members to express themselves after a couple of years of imprisonment.

Who would've known these guys had such passion even though they were on the Cameron side.

Hopefully the years have not ruined their reason and logic too much.

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='rrkman' post='1841617' date='Jul 24 2009, 06:31 PM']Sorry but I don't see the humor in having these people fight like teenagers (no offense to the teenagers) while making a mockery of your site. This thread had some very interesting info early on but it is really just a good old fashion mudslinging now. I'm glad that this site allows freedom of discussion but I think the last 10 pages or so go way beyond that. And I agree with CallawayOnly - most of the people in this topic have lost credibility with me. There are certainly some that posted facts and stayed respectful....kudos to you. But most of you have just jumped on the bandwagons and acted like bullies....you should be proud.[/quote]
I'm not sure why it makes a mockery of the site - unless you feel that people shouldn't be able to speak their mind. Both "sides" have made some good points, some unnecessary innuendo and a few heated exchanges, but overall it has been quite interesting. To me it seems like it is mostly Cameron supporters who want things to end - interesting.

Besides, I like this thread open - it has kept most of the other putter threads cleaner than usual!