Taking Unused Balls Home from Driving Range (MERGED)

[bscinstnct]

gotta love it..... it now is taking two threads to help somebody feel just for stealing.

 

I think many that do get it are just wasting time trying to help those that don't get it - get it.

 

The same people who think its ok to walk with range balls till it fits their schedule to finish hitting all the balls they rented, are the same people who feel its ok to talk on cell phones in restaurant's, in movie theaters. Entitlement is rich

 

Hold on, I'm almost off this call...

 

(cool)

 

I do agree with everyone that says you can't take the balls home.

 

But I do think that I should be able to use the balls as my schedule dictates.

That is why I am surprised that ranges that don't have ball cards that retain the value of unused balls don't credit the customer for unused balls.

 

I might go to the range and expect to hit 120 balls. But sometimes I hit like 30 or 40 and if I am good, I don't want to hit anymore. I want to run

out of there with my good swing intact!

 

Like I said..... some get it some don't

 

I supposed that if you got to a sit down resturant and order and pay for A MEAL.... and you don't finish it. You might come back next week and sit down, tell the waitress/waiter that they owe you the rest of your meal???? I mean, heck it is your schedule.

 

Right on..... entitlement is rich......

 

I don't know about you.... but just about any and all driving ranges I have ever gone to and hit balls..... they didn't look like they were going to have a walmart return policy for all you on YOUR SCHEDULES.... I can see it now for the future, a separate return line to count unused range balls for your credit......can't wait for a bucket of balls to cost $50 bucks to compensate for all of those entitled.

 

 

 

 

If I don't finish a meal, well, it means the place must stink.

 

And yes, if a meal stinks, I will send it back.

 

 

Look, I am agreeing with you. Taking the balls is wrong and if I went to a range where you have to finish the bucket or lose the balls, I wouldn't

think of taking them.

 

Fortunately, my regular range has a system where you buy a card, pop it in the machine and you hit balls and then keep the value of what you don't hit. You can buy a 30,50,100 dollar card.

 

It is the best system, don't you think. To give the customer the best options and the best service.

 

I just think it is poor/antiquated service to not focus on the needs of the customer as best you can. In the

case where balls are sold in buckets, credit the customer for unused balls.

 

The business that does so will do better than the business that does not.

 

Assuming there is competition.

[OneBowTie]

gotta love it..... it now is taking two threads to help somebody feel just for stealing.

 

I think many that do get it are just wasting time trying to help those that don't get it - get it.

 

The same people who think its ok to walk with range balls till it fits their schedule to finish hitting all the balls they rented, are the same people who feel its ok to talk on cell phones in restaurant's, in movie theaters. Entitlement is rich

 

Hold on, I'm almost off this call...

 

(cool)

 

I do agree with everyone that says you can't take the balls home.

 

But I do think that I should be able to use the balls as my schedule dictates.

That is why I am surprised that ranges that don't have ball cards that retain the value of unused balls don't credit the customer for unused balls.

 

I might go to the range and expect to hit 120 balls. But sometimes I hit like 30 or 40 and if I am good, I don't want to hit anymore. I want to run

out of there with my good swing intact!

 

Like I said..... some get it some don't

 

I supposed that if you got to a sit down resturant and order and pay for A MEAL.... and you don't finish it. You might come back next week and sit down, tell the waitress/waiter that they owe you the rest of your meal???? I mean, heck it is your schedule.

 

Right on..... entitlement is rich......

 

I don't know about you.... but just about any and all driving ranges I have ever gone to and hit balls..... they didn't look like they were going to have a walmart return policy for all you on YOUR SCHEDULES.... I can see it now for the future, a separate return line to count unused range balls for your credit......can't wait for a bucket of balls to cost $50 bucks to compensate for all of those entitled.

 

 

 

 

If I don't finish a meal, well, it means the place must stink.

 

And yes, if a meal stinks, I will send it back.

 

 

Look, I am agreeing with you. Taking the balls is wrong and if I went to a range where you have to finish the bucket or lose the balls, I wouldn't

think of taking them.

 

Fortunately, my regular range has a system where you buy a card, pop it in the machine and you hit balls and then keep the value of what you don't hit. You can buy a 30,50,100 dollar card.

 

It is the best system, don't you think. To give the customer the best options and the best service.

 

I just think it is poor/antiquated service to not focus on the needs of the customer as best you can.

 

The business that does so will do better than the business that does not.

 

Assuming there is competition.

 

Great if we agree. I guess I am not quite understanding the system you are describing. I mean, yes I understand that I can buy a card good for 30,50,100 bucks. But lets say you buy a 10 bucket, and you have 10 balls left that you didn't hit....how is that range going to know this, do you actually take the balls back to register and the person counts them and gives you some kind of 10 ball credit??? If so, I have never heard of that, and if they do that, that is great and that is not the same as what people are saying on this thread.

 

As for the restaurant and not finishing meals. Some of the very best restaurants I have gone to, I have not finished meals, and not because they were not any good.

[usfbulls09]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='15 March 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1268680505' post='2317483']
Here is a "stealing" question for you:

If a driving range borders a golf hole, and golfers loose balls into the range, and if your bucket contains, let's say, a new Pro V 1 in additon to a hundred yellow balls marked "practice", do you take the Pro V 1 home?

(I presume that the golfer who abandoned it thereby gave some sort of title to the range-owner. Not sure about that though.)
[/quote]


[quote name='sigmapete1' date='15 March 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1268682563' post='2317557']
[quote name='Sawgrass' date='15 March 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1268680505' post='2317483']
Here is a "stealing" question for you:

If a driving range borders a golf hole, and golfers loose balls into the range, and if your bucket contains, let's say, a new Pro V 1 in additon to a hundred yellow balls marked "practice", do you take the Pro V 1 home?

(I presume that the golfer who abandoned it thereby gave some sort of title to the range-owner. Not sure about that though.)
[/quote]

Same as finding a ProV1 on the course IMO. The only person who can claim ownership of that ball is long gone. It's certainly no more the property of the range than a ball on a course is property of the course.

EDIT: Despite my opinion on this, I always end up hitting it anyway to see the discrepancy between the range balls and a "real" one. Invariably its a bad shot and tells me nothing.
[/quote]



Definitely done this...I never buy ProV1, and my normal range uses Top Flite and Callaway practice balls...if I see a ProV1, I know it came from an errant drive on the first tee adjacent to the range, and this is the only time where I'll take a ball from the range (ProV1 or similar quality). I don't really think that's wrong, as the owner had no chance of retrieving this ball, it's the same as if I fish a few balls from the bank of the lake. But I won't take the range balls, as the course obviously paid for them and expects those to be returned...

[bscinstnct]

gotta love it..... it now is taking two threads to help somebody feel just for stealing.

 

I think many that do get it are just wasting time trying to help those that don't get it - get it.

 

The same people who think its ok to walk with range balls till it fits their schedule to finish hitting all the balls they rented, are the same people who feel its ok to talk on cell phones in restaurant's, in movie theaters. Entitlement is rich

 

Hold on, I'm almost off this call...

 

(cool)

 

I do agree with everyone that says you can't take the balls home.

 

But I do think that I should be able to use the balls as my schedule dictates.

That is why I am surprised that ranges that don't have ball cards that retain the value of unused balls don't credit the customer for unused balls.

 

I might go to the range and expect to hit 120 balls. But sometimes I hit like 30 or 40 and if I am good, I don't want to hit anymore. I want to run

out of there with my good swing intact!

 

Like I said..... some get it some don't

 

I supposed that if you got to a sit down resturant and order and pay for A MEAL.... and you don't finish it. You might come back next week and sit down, tell the waitress/waiter that they owe you the rest of your meal???? I mean, heck it is your schedule.

 

Right on..... entitlement is rich......

 

I don't know about you.... but just about any and all driving ranges I have ever gone to and hit balls..... they didn't look like they were going to have a walmart return policy for all you on YOUR SCHEDULES.... I can see it now for the future, a separate return line to count unused range balls for your credit......can't wait for a bucket of balls to cost $50 bucks to compensate for all of those entitled.

 

 

 

 

If I don't finish a meal, well, it means the place must stink.

 

And yes, if a meal stinks, I will send it back.

 

 

Look, I am agreeing with you. Taking the balls is wrong and if I went to a range where you have to finish the bucket or lose the balls, I wouldn't

think of taking them.

 

Fortunately, my regular range has a system where you buy a card, pop it in the machine and you hit balls and then keep the value of what you don't hit. You can buy a 30,50,100 dollar card.

 

It is the best system, don't you think. To give the customer the best options and the best service.

 

I just think it is poor/antiquated service to not focus on the needs of the customer as best you can.

 

The business that does so will do better than the business that does not.

 

Assuming there is competition.

 

Great if we agree. I guess I am not quite understanding the system you are describing. I mean, yes I understand that I can buy a card good for 30,50,100 bucks. But lets say you buy a 10 bucket, and you have 10 balls left that you didn't hit....how is that range going to know this, do you actually take the balls back to register and the person counts them and gives you some kind of 10 ball credit??? If so, I have never heard of that, and if they do that, that is great and that is not the same as what people are saying on this thread.

 

As for the restaurant and not finishing meals. Some of the very best restaurants I have gone to, I have not finished meals, and not because they were not any good.

 

Nice quote stack for us!

 

:clapping:

 

Sorry, I should have been clear.

 

It is a range where the balls pop out of a hole in the ground automatically as you hit them. So you buy a card, say 30 bucks. Then, at every stall,

there is a machine where you put the card in and the first ball pops up. You hit the balls and the machine counts how many you hit and deducts

from the credit on your card. So, if the $30 card gives you 200 balls and you end up hitting 50, your card will still have 150 balls on it and the next

time you come back, you just stick the card in the machine at your stall.

 

You can hit as many balls as you want, on different days until the credit runs out.

 

As far as restaurants go, having worked as a waiter, I am always very cool with the folks. But it is rare that I don't clean my plate...and my wife's...

and anybody else who is at the table.:rolleyes:

[acquadiice]

[quote name='ZombieDave' date='15 March 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1268688869' post='2317808']
of course it's stealing. And even if you're completely honest and intend to return to use them, you'd still have to be stupid to do it. The risk to your reputation if you got caught is just not worth it. You could be barred, or worst case scenario arrested. Some people have bizarre thought processes.
[/quote]

[Speedly]

[quote name='skizix' date='15 March 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1268689724' post='2317836']
[quote name='Speedly' date='15 March 2010 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1268689227' post='2317819']
[quote name='skizix' date='15 March 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1268681223' post='2317508']stuff after not bothering to read the entire thread[/quote]

Considering I already made a post where I reiterated this three times in caps with arrows pointing at it, I'm just going to call you an idiot and say it again.

I don't engage in the practice being discussed, and would never do so. I'm simply saying that the people who did aren't the scum of society.
[/quote]

Hey, don't take it personally. As aside from the master-of-rationalizing part, "you" was meant not at you specifically, but to anyone who thinks it's fine to walk off with a bucket of range balls.[/quote]

Well, that's fine, then. You might understand how I'd think you were talking to specifically me when my post was quoted and then the word "you" was used. I do apologize.

[quote name='skizix' date='15 March 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1268689724' post='2317836']
And if you [i]did [/i]take the time to read the post before responding to it (jackass!), you'd see that I agree with the sentiment that it's not exactly the crime of the century.[/quote]

You know, I take that back.

I didn't say anything to you about whether or not you agreed with me, so bringing up your stance is really not applicable. My finishing sentences were more about the fact that I thought you were accusing myself specifically of engaging in the practice. Not about your view.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Speedly' date='15 March 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1268688829' post='2317802']
There is already a thread for this, where you and I have been going back and forth. Keep it in there.

For the record, opening another thread with a poll in an "I told you so" attempt is extremely childish.
[/quote]

I take insult at that. I opened the poll to see how members felt without the need to comment or reply if they did not want. Was it just a handful that thought it was wrong or was it a majority. So far it looks like there are a lot of good people out there.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='srockafe' date='14 March 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1268589693' post='2315148']
Stealing is wrong, taking balls with the "intent" of bringing them back is not stealing, but morally questionable to some. 

[/quote][b]""Stealing is wrong, taking balls with the "intent" of bringing them back is not stealing."" [/b]

No slippery slope... simply a big azzz assumption that is based on your value structure.  As far as the "range manager or owner" is concerned if you or anyone else doesn't get permission to take those ball "it's stealing.  Of course if you say your either a range manager or range owner then I applaud you for very broad thinking.  

The range manager I am acquainted with calls the police if he catches someone stealing balls.  His words.. he has no idea what some stranger plans to do with those balls.  All he knows is nobody asked him for permission to take them and he purchased then; people frequenting the range only rent them on the premises.  So, if we're using your liberal take on what constitutes stealing I hope you or others never try it at my friends range because nobody will like the consequences.  

It's hell for someone to find themselves facing a misdemeanor, and realizing what was thought to be withing reason, is technically stealing.

[puttingmatt]

Remember E-SF,
Nothing says guilty like pictures, and most cellphones have that feature. I am
sure one would not be so self confident in front of the judge. Most owners would not
waste the trip to court without evidence. And stealing is larceny, a crime. Most likely
end up in district or circuit court, not small claims. Hey with any luck, we can see
these stories on America's Most Stupid.LOL's

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='usfbulls09' date='15 March 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1268690499' post='2317870']
Definitely done this...I never buy ProV1, and my normal range uses Top Flite and Callaway practice balls...if I see a ProV1, I know it came from an errant drive on the first tee adjacent to the range, and this is the only time where I'll take a ball from the range (ProV1 or similar quality). I don't really think that's wrong, as the owner had no chance of retrieving this ball, it's the same as if I fish a few balls from the bank of the lake. But I won't take the range balls, as the course obviously paid for them and expects those to be returned...

[/quote]

Sorry, but I beg to differ with what constitutes ownership.  If a golf course leaves a mower setting in the parking lot, does that mean you can take it home; how about bunker rakes.  If you forget and leave your computer setting on a chair at the airport does that mean someone can freely take it without consequences?  I could go on but won't because you know the answers; justification for our actions no matter how inconsequential they might be is still wrong.

Anytime someone looses something on a golf course, you'll find if it's not claimed by it's rightful owner, it's the clubs; and that includes balls in lakes or creeks.  If a ball lands in my backyard it becomes mine because it's private property; not some guy that see's it and thinks climbing the fence is OK.  Fishing balls out as some guys persist at doing is acceptable, unless the course mgt says NO to fishing, and some do.  But, rather then post "NO" fishing signs, that could be reason some courses dirty up the water in ponds; so people don't slow play further by ball hunting.  

To futher complicate the "ball in water" subject most golf courses have contracts with divers to collect balls.  You could then be stealing from him, as collecting balls is his contractual business.  As for taking that ProV, it's "wrong" too.

[TM golf guy]

Oh. My. Gosh. This thread is so stupid. It has been said a bunch of times in the thread, but if everyone took home 50 balls every time and "brought" them back, then they would run out of balls in no time. How in the world are you carrying 50 balls out of there? What do you do when someone sees you and calls you out on it? Madness.

[stage1350]

[quote name='bscinstnct' date='15 March 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1268689839' post='2317840']
[quote name='OneBowTie' date='15 March 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1268688905' post='2317812']
[quote name='bscinstnct' date='15 March 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1268687932' post='2317767']
[quote name='OneBowTie' date='15 March 2010 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1268687389' post='2317749']
WALL OF TEXT[/quote]
WALL OF TEXT[/quote]
WALL OF TEXT[/quote]

If [b]I [/b]don't finish a meal, well, it means the place must stink.

And yes, if a meal stinks, I will send it back.


[b]Look, I am agreeing with you. Taking the balls is wrong and if I went to a range where you have to finish the bucket or lose the balls, I wouldn't
think of taking them.

Fortunately, my regular range has a system where you buy a card, pop it in the machine and you hit balls and then keep the value of what you don't hit. You can buy a 30,50,100 dollar card.

It is the best system, don't you think. To give the customer the best options and the best service.[/b]
I just think it is poor/antiquated service to not focus on the needs of the customer as best you can. In the
case where balls are sold in buckets, credit the customer for unused balls.

The business that does so will do better than the business that does not.

Assuming there is competition.
[/quote]
The OP specifically stated that the juniors are buying the economy size because the cost per ball is lower and pocketing the difference.

You are making the assumption that each ball cost XXX dollars per ball. My range has three sizes of bucket and each size gets you slightly more balls for your dollar. Economies of scale at work.

Therefore, if you buy at the economy rate and want to only hit a small bucket, how much should you be charged per ball? The kids the OP talked about are doing to be cheap bastages. Why does anyone here have 50 balls left over?

If you have an emergency and need to leave, that's your problem. If you pull a muscle and can't hit anymore, that's your problem. If you are so concerned about "getting your money's worth," go explain it to the guy running the range. They may be reasonable with you and give you a partial refund. Don't be surprised, however, if they tell you to piss off. But to stick the balls in your trunk is absolutely wrong not matter what your excuse is. It's theft, pure and simple.

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='puttingmatt' date='15 March 2010 - 06:56 PM' timestamp='1268697362' post='2318121']
Remember E-SF,
Nothing says guilty like pictures, and most cellphones have that feature. I am
sure one would not be so self confident in front of the judge. Most owners would not
waste the trip to court without evidence. And stealing is larceny, a crime. Most likely
end up in district or circuit court, not small claims. Hey with any luck, we can see
these stories on America's Most Stupid.LOL's
[/quote]

Well I suppose if you vigilantes are going to start taking it upon yourselves to videotape each and every range patron, then there is nothing to be done other than stop taking the balls. But it's going to take exactly that, for you to narc me out. Until then......

[mat562]

Just as an aside, how many people here who would take balls home from the range in order to use them at a later date would feel confident that they would be believed by a range employee/range manager/police officer/magistrate were they to be stopped on their way out of the door with three or four dozen of the things tucked into their bag?

No offence to the borrowers, but the words 'a likely story' would be coming out of my mouth at an early point in the conversation were I listening to someone giving me the 'well, it's like this. I paid for a hundred balls and only hit fifty, so I thought...'

Every man and his dog who gets caught red handed commiting an offence has a similar story of utterly reasonable and innocent behaviour to account for what they were doing at the time they were collared. 99% of it is, of course, complete and utter twaddle. Unfortunately for the few people who would actually bring the balls back and hit them, you're all lumped into the same basket with the toerags as far as I'm concerned and, I suspect, as far as the majority of the above listed interested parties would also be concerned in the event of you being caught with the balls. Rightly or wrongly, I'm simply going to have a tough time taking your protestations of innocence seriously I'm afraid.

Another question for the borrowers: Do you brazenly walk out with the balls in plain view, giving little thought to any possible challenge by range staff? Or do you secrete the balls into the nooks and crannies of a bag so as to avoid drawing attention to what you're doing in an effort to make this perfectly reasonable behaviour low key and, hopefully, unnoticed?

Ultimately, my own take is that however justified a person may feel in borrowing the balls for use and return at a later date, the fact is that it's questionable behaviour and most range owners aren't going to cut you any slack whatsover if they catch you with a bagful of range balls. Do as you see fit but, honestly, I wouldn't complain if you were to end up on the wrong end of some drama for the sake of saving a couple of quid.

[Speedly]

[quote]I take insult at that. I opened the poll to see how members felt without the need to comment or reply if they did not want. Was it just a handful that thought it was wrong or was it a majority. So far it looks like there are a lot of good people out there.[/quote]
I should hope you would take insult at that. It was blatantly meant as an insult. Good observational skills there, champ.

The threads have been merged - but the issue was already being discussed in the other thread. Don't act the victim now that you've been called on your crap.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Speedly' date='15 March 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1268700237' post='2318256']
[quote]I take insult at that. I opened the poll to see how members felt without the need to comment or reply if they did not want. Was it just a handful that thought it was wrong or was it a majority. So far it looks like there are a lot of good people out there.[/quote]
I should hope you would take insult at that. It was blatantly meant as an insult. Good observational skills there, champ.

The threads have been merged - but the issue was already being discussed in the other thread. Don't act the victim now that you've been called on your crap.
[/quote]

What victim? What calling of my crap? I am seeing new people giving their opinion now the thread describes the issue. So there is nothing wrong with taking a poll to allow members to vote or express an opinion (whether the same as mine or not).

[Pondy]

"Good Guys" = 55
EVERYONE ELSE = 15(combined)

[skizix]

stuff after not bothering to read the entire thread

 

Considering I already made a post where I reiterated this three times in caps with arrows pointing at it, I'm just going to call you an idiot and say it again.

 

I don't engage in the practice being discussed, and would never do so. I'm simply saying that the people who did aren't the scum of society.

 

Hey, don't take it personally. As aside from the master-of-rationalizing part, "you" was meant not at you specifically, but to anyone who thinks it's fine to walk off with a bucket of range balls.

 

Well, that's fine, then. You might understand how I'd think you were talking to specifically me when my post was quoted and then the word "you" was used. I do apologize.

 

And if you did take the time to read the post before responding to it (jackass!), you'd see that I agree with the sentiment that it's not exactly the crime of the century.

 

You know, I take that back.

 

I didn't say anything to you about whether or not you agreed with me, so bringing up your stance is really not applicable. My finishing sentences were more about the fact that I thought you were accusing myself specifically of engaging in the practice. Not about your view.

 

 

Yep, cool. What I wrote originally was ambiguous in that regard (who "you" is), and sorry if you took it the wrong way. Slid in a "jackass" for your "idiot". Petty I guess, but...nanner-nanner-boo-boo to you too .

 

Anyhow, originally I did respond because I saw holes in your logic, justifying what seems to me to be obviously sneaky/underhanded/inappropriate behavior. Do I really care if some dude is sneaking off w/ 1/2 bucket once in a while? No. Not really at all (almost). Don't care (mostly) as it (mostly) doesn't affect me. But it is pretty freakin' cheesy IMHO, would bum me out to witness, and like the person riding the breakdown lane to get around the traffic jam (and I forgot this part: that person most certainly knows, but does not care, that every single person they pass thinks they SUCK!!!)...it is simply antisocial behavior.

 

So take your (um, not YOU, dude, but "general you"... ) precious balls home if you really feel the need, but know that it makes you somewhat of a cheapskate sleezebag (if not "the scum of the earth), and generally, I would hazard, inspires negative thoughts in anyone who sees you do it. Which is not cool.

 

Peace.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='E - SF' date='15 March 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1268699826' post='2318241']


Well I suppose if you vigilantes are going to start taking it upon yourselves to videotape each and every range patron, then there is nothing to be done other than stop taking the balls. But it's going to take exactly that, for you to narc me out. Until then......
[/quote]

My Momma didn't raise no fool. That vigilante stuff gets you injured, killed, in jail, or injured and in jail.

[br61]

[quote name='stage1350' date='15 March 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1268698697' post='2318183']
[quote name='bscinstnct' date='15 March 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1268689839' post='2317840']
[quote name='OneBowTie' date='15 March 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1268688905' post='2317812']
[quote name='bscinstnct' date='15 March 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1268687932' post='2317767']
[quote name='OneBowTie' date='15 March 2010 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1268687389' post='2317749']
WALL OF TEXT[/quote]
WALL OF TEXT[/quote]
WALL OF TEXT[/quote]

If [b]I [/b]don't finish a meal, well, it means the place must stink.

And yes, if a meal stinks, I will send it back.


[b]Look, I am agreeing with you. Taking the balls is wrong and if I went to a range where you have to finish the bucket or lose the balls, I wouldn't
think of taking them.

Fortunately, my regular range has a system where you buy a card, pop it in the machine and you hit balls and then keep the value of what you don't hit. You can buy a 30,50,100 dollar card.

It is the best system, don't you think. To give the customer the best options and the best service.[/b]
I just think it is poor/antiquated service to not focus on the needs of the customer as best you can. In the
case where balls are sold in buckets, credit the customer for unused balls.

The business that does so will do better than the business that does not.

Assuming there is competition.
[/quote]
The OP specifically stated that the juniors are buying the economy size because the cost per ball is lower and pocketing the difference.

You are making the assumption that each ball cost XXX dollars per ball. My range has three sizes of bucket and each size gets you slightly more balls for your dollar. Economies of scale at work.

Therefore, if you buy at the economy rate and want to only hit a small bucket, how much should you be charged per ball? The kids the OP talked about are doing to be cheap bastages. Why does anyone here have 50 balls left over?

If you have an emergency and need to leave, that's your problem. If you pull a muscle and can't hit anymore, that's your problem. If you are so concerned about "getting your money's worth," go explain it to the guy running the range. They may be reasonable with you and give you a partial refund. Don't be surprised, however, if they tell you to piss off. But to stick the balls in your trunk is absolutely wrong not matter what your excuse is. It's theft, pure and simple.
[/quote]

I rarely go to stand alone range because I have range privileges with my home course's membership nowdays but when I had a house up in Weldon Springs, MO for 5 years, there was a nice range in O'Fallon that I used often to keep my game sharp. Whenever I'm done with my hitting with plenty of balls left, I look for some kids that could use extra balls and give it to them. I never ever thought about taking some balls with me so I can finish off the leftovers at a later date. It goes against the principles that my parents has taught me, never to steal.

If you have plenty of balls left over, it wouldn't hurt to ask the manager or the owners if you can have some credit next time you come back and maybe perhaps remind them that you don't believe in taking their balls off of their property as others does. They might do something for you to reward your honesty. Who knows.

[sigmapete1]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='15 March 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1268698082' post='2318158']
[quote name='usfbulls09' date='15 March 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1268690499' post='2317870']
Definitely done this...I never buy ProV1, and my normal range uses Top Flite and Callaway practice balls...if I see a ProV1, I know it came from an errant drive on the first tee adjacent to the range, and this is the only time where I'll take a ball from the range (ProV1 or similar quality). I don't really think that's wrong, as the owner had no chance of retrieving this ball, it's the same as if I fish a few balls from the bank of the lake. But I won't take the range balls, as the course obviously paid for them and expects those to be returned...

[/quote]

Sorry, but I beg to differ with what constitutes ownership.  If a golf course leaves a mower setting in the parking lot, does that mean you can take it home; how about bunker rakes.  If you forget and leave your computer setting on a chair at the airport does that mean someone can freely take it without consequences?  I could go on but won't because you know the answers; justification for our actions no matter how inconsequential they might be is still wrong.

Anytime someone looses something on a golf course, you'll find if it's not claimed by it's rightful owner, it's the clubs; and that includes balls in lakes or creeks.  If a ball lands in my backyard it becomes mine because it's private property; not some guy that see's it and thinks climbing the fence is OK.  Fishing balls out as some guys persist at doing is acceptable, unless the course mgt says NO to fishing, and some do.  But, rather then post "NO" fishing signs, that could be reason some courses dirty up the water in ponds; so people don't slow play further by ball hunting.  

To futher complicate the "ball in water" subject most golf courses have contracts with divers to collect balls.  You could then be stealing from him, as collecting balls is his contractual business.  As for taking that ProV, it's "wrong" too.
[/quote]

I was going to write a long response about what constitutes legal ownership, but I was done writing legal essays when I passed the NJ and NY bars 5 years ago. I will just quietly accept the fact that I am an evil person for taking the ProV that the range didn't pay for and I'll see some of you in hell along with me. The cart girls in hell are much more fun!

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='Pondy' date='15 March 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1268703544' post='2318405']
"Good Guys" = 55
EVERYONE ELSE = 15(combined)
[/quote]

This, to me, is the most disturbing aspect of this thread. To take an admittedly bad but relatively harmless act like saving balls for later use at the same range, or by the same token a good but insignificant act, as conclusive evidence of someone's overall character and integrity is asinine and has often been the source of much human folly.

I would urge you to read up on John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer who was a pillar of his community. He would throw annual block parties for his neighborhood, dress up as a clown to entertain at children's hospitals, was an active volunteer for Chicago's Democratic Party who did every chore asked of him, and was even at one point the precinct captain for his local street lighting committee. He was also one of the worst serial killers in United States history, having raped and murdered 33 young men and boys.

You can't judge people by what they do when nothing is on the line, when the outcome is insignificant. With this type of thinking, you never know who is really "good" and who is "bad" until it's too late.

We need to collectively have higher standards for our saints than whether or not they pay their range balls forward.

[skizix]

"Good Guys" = 55

EVERYONE ELSE = 15(combined)

 

This, to me, is the most disturbing aspect of this thread. To take an admittedly bad but relatively harmless act like saving balls for later use at the same range, or by the same token a good but insignificant act, as conclusive evidence of someone's overall character and integrity is asinine and has often been the source of much human folly.

 

I would urge you to read up on John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer who was a pillar of his community. He would throw annual block parties for his neighborhood, dress up as a clown to entertain at children's hospitals, was an active volunteer for Chicago's Democratic Party who did every chore asked of him, and was even at one point the precinct captain for his local street lighting committee. He was also one of the worst serial killers in United States history, having raped and murdered 33 young men and boys.

 

You can't judge people by what they do when nothing is on the line, when the outcome is insignificant. With this type of thinking, you never know who is really "good" and who is "bad" until it's too late.

 

We need to collectively have higher standards for our saints than whether or not they pay their range balls further.

 

 

Ok, ok...we have a winner. This has got to be the most thoroughly creative, subversive, and perhaps downright pathological rationalization for justifying what is obviously questionable-at-best-or-more-like-fully-sleazy behavior yet! Congrats!

 

I mean, I will confess to occasionally thowing a couple of my own beers in my bag before a round. And this is against the rules at every course I normally play (pretty sure it's due to a law here in colorado). But next time someone calls me on it (um...if that ever happens ), I'm gonna be like, "Dude, ever heard of a guy called Hitler?!? Sure, he would've waited for the cart girl...and tipped her! What do you think I am...some kind of Hitler!?!"

 

At first this thread seemed just silly. But it's bringing to bear some pretty interesting sociological whacky-ola. Keep it coming, by all means...

[mat562]

Godwin's Law at work.

[geesecougar2]

"Good Guys" = 55

EVERYONE ELSE = 15(combined)

 

This, to me, is the most disturbing aspect of this thread. To take an admittedly bad but relatively harmless act like saving balls for later use at the same range, or by the same token a good but insignificant act, as conclusive evidence of someone's overall character and integrity is asinine and has often been the source of much human folly.

 

I would urge you to read up on John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer who was a pillar of his community. He would throw annual block parties for his neighborhood, dress up as a clown to entertain at children's hospitals, was an active volunteer for Chicago's Democratic Party who did every chore asked of him, and was even at one point the precinct captain for his local street lighting committee. He was also one of the worst serial killers in United States history, having raped and murdered 33 young men and boys.

 

You can't judge people by what they do when nothing is on the line, when the outcome is insignificant. With this type of thinking, you never know who is really "good" and who is "bad" until it's too late.

 

We need to collectively have higher standards for our saints than whether or not they pay their range balls further.

 

 

Ok, ok...we have a winner. This has got to be the most thoroughly creative, subversive, and perhaps downright pathological rationalization for justifying what is obviously sleazy behavior yet! Congrats!

 

I mean, I will confess to occasionally thowing a couple of my own beers in my bag before a round. And this is against the rules at every course I play (pretty sure it's due to a law here in colorado). But next time someone calls me on it (um...if that ever happens ), I'm gonna be like, "Dude, ever heard of a guy called Hitler?!? Sure, he would've waited for the cart girl...and tipped her! What do you think I am...some kind of Hitler!?!"

 

At first this thread seemed just silly. But it's bringing to bear some pretty interesting sociological whacky-ola. Keep it coming, by all means...

 

I believe it's illegal because you are not supposed to bring any outside food or beverages to the course. Your green fee entitles you to play golf there, not to treat it as your personal party/drinking refuge. Any food or beverage you consume needs to be purchased at their establishment. If you do not purchase it at their establishment, you are blatantly disregarding the rules and robbing them of business. One could say you are even stealing from them.

 

But it's ok, I will not judge you on this act. I know that such a thing is not indicative of your true character and integrity. And, I won't even tell Pondy, just so you can remain one of the "good guys." ;)

[skizix]

"Good Guys" = 55

EVERYONE ELSE = 15(combined)

 

This, to me, is the most disturbing aspect of this thread. To take an admittedly bad but relatively harmless act like saving balls for later use at the same range, or by the same token a good but insignificant act, as conclusive evidence of someone's overall character and integrity is asinine and has often been the source of much human folly.

 

I would urge you to read up on John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer who was a pillar of his community. He would throw annual block parties for his neighborhood, dress up as a clown to entertain at children's hospitals, was an active volunteer for Chicago's Democratic Party who did every chore asked of him, and was even at one point the precinct captain for his local street lighting committee. He was also one of the worst serial killers in United States history, having raped and murdered 33 young men and boys.

 

You can't judge people by what they do when nothing is on the line, when the outcome is insignificant. With this type of thinking, you never know who is really "good" and who is "bad" until it's too late.

 

We need to collectively have higher standards for our saints than whether or not they pay their range balls further.

 

 

Ok, ok...we have a winner. This has got to be the most thoroughly creative, subversive, and perhaps downright pathological rationalization for justifying what is obviously sleazy behavior yet! Congrats!

 

I mean, I will confess to occasionally thowing a couple of my own beers in my bag before a round. And this is against the rules at every course I play (pretty sure it's due to a law here in colorado). But next time someone calls me on it (um...if that ever happens ), I'm gonna be like, "Dude, ever heard of a guy called Hitler?!? Sure, he would've waited for the cart girl...and tipped her! What do you think I am...some kind of Hitler!?!"

 

At first this thread seemed just silly. But it's bringing to bear some pretty interesting sociological whacky-ola. Keep it coming, by all means...

 

I believe it's illegal because you are not supposed to bring any outside food or beverages to the course. Your green fee entitles you to play golf there, not to treat it as your personal party/drinking refuge. Any food or beverage you consume needs to be purchased at their establishment. If you do not purchase it at their establishment, you are blatantly disregarding the rules and robbing them of business. One could say you are even stealing from them.

 

But it's ok, I will not judge you on this act. I know that such a thing is not indicative of your true character and integrity. And, I won't even tell Pondy, just so you can remain one of the "good guys."

 

Damn, you know what, you're right. As someone earlier pointed out, there is no sign saying you can't take unused range balls home with you. But there IS notice, right there on the score card, that I can't take my own food or bevvys onto the course. Dangit, I suppose that year-old snickers bar in my bag is controband as well.

 

I am a bad man.

 

But you know what? In all my travels, I have never seen a sign saying there's anything wrong with stomping on kittens.

 

Here, kitty, kitty...

[geesecougar2]

I believe your state and/or the Animal Welfare Act have rules against cruelty to animals.

[Speedly]

[quote]What victim?[/quote]
Do I REALLY have to explain this?

[quote]What calling of my crap? I am seeing new people giving their opinion now the thread describes the issue. So there is nothing wrong with taking a poll to allow members to vote or express an opinion (whether the same as mine or not).[/quote]
Bull. You did the equivalent of having a personal argument with someone in, say, a restaurant, and when the person isn't backing down, you shout out to everyone in there, "HEY, EVERYONE! AREN'T I RIGHT ABOUT (so and so)?"

It's what eight year olds do, and you know it. Don't play stupid.

[srockafe]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='15 March 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1268697077' post='2318113']
[quote name='srockafe' date='14 March 2010 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1268589693' post='2315148']
Stealing is wrong, taking balls with the "intent" of bringing them back is not stealing, but morally questionable to some. 

[/quote][b]""Stealing is wrong, taking balls with the "intent" of bringing them back is not stealing."" [/b]

No slippery slope... simply a big azzz assumption that is based on your value structure.  As far as the "range manager or owner" is concerned if you or anyone else doesn't get permission to take those ball "it's stealing.  Of course if you say your either a range manager or range owner then I applaud you for very broad thinking.  

The range manager I am acquainted with calls the police if he catches someone stealing balls.  His words.. he has no idea what some stranger plans to do with those balls.  All he knows is nobody asked him for permission to take them and he purchased then; people frequenting the range only rent them on the premises.  So, if we're using your liberal take on what constitutes stealing I hope you or others never try it at my friends range because nobody will like the consequences.  

It's hell for someone to find themselves facing a misdemeanor, and realizing what was thought to be withing reason, is technically stealing.
[/quote]

First of all, where did I portray a liberal view of stealing? The only statement I made referring to the word "liberal" was in relation to how incorrect it was to use "self-entitled" to describe people that take balls from a range. An example of a person who is correctly labeled self-entitled could be a minority who feels he deserves something [u]that others don't[/u], because of the uncontrollable negatives of being the race he is. It was simple analysis, not an attack. In this case some people pay for range balls and want to be able to hit all of them, whether or not time should allow. A liberal view of the range situation was that if a range allowed people to do this and people didn't steal balls or cause the range to lose money like my own club, there would be no problem.

Secondly, I can see how taking my quote [u][b]out of context and bold-facing it[/b][/u] would yield an onlooker to believe I was morally bankrupt, but in relation to the entirety of my post, I believed it was clear what I meant. At my country club where we have a tight knit community and a private driving range, sometimes taking range balls to the cart shed or vehicles until after a round or a couple of days is common practice and the manager, owner, and greenskeeper couldn't care less for now. If it becomes a problem, they will care and people won't do it anymore. I said that I wasn't going to jump over someone about putting balls in their shed to use for later because it doesn't cause me any problems nor the owners as long as they return them.
The "[u][b]no slippery slope argument[/b][/u]", was for those who might argue that once one person starts holding range balls till post round at my course that everyone will all the time and we wont have any balls left. This is a fallacy until someone quantifies the negatives that have occurred from it it is pointless.

Never did I mention it was okay to do this at another range nor did I say that other ranges would be better off doing this!

Thirdly, the next time you shoot off your rocker when someone uses the words liberal and conservative in a post in which conservative is viewed negatively, don't make an assumption about my political views and then associate that with my value structure. You may be very incorrect, as in this case

I'm the guy who kept one bucket and took buckets and buckets of balls to the greenskeeper when it dumped out about 500 balls for my single token.

[usfbulls09]

Definitely done this...I never buy ProV1, and my normal range uses Top Flite and Callaway practice balls...if I see a ProV1, I know it came from an errant drive on the first tee adjacent to the range, and this is the only time where I'll take a ball from the range (ProV1 or similar quality). I don't really think that's wrong, as the owner had no chance of retrieving this ball, it's the same as if I fish a few balls from the bank of the lake. But I won't take the range balls, as the course obviously paid for them and expects those to be returned...

 

 

Sorry, but I beg to differ with what constitutes ownership. If a golf course leaves a mower setting in the parking lot, does that mean you can take it home; how about bunker rakes. If you forget and leave your computer setting on a chair at the airport does that mean someone can freely take it without consequences? I could go on but won't because you know the answers; justification for our actions no matter how inconsequential they might be is still wrong.

 

Anytime someone looses something on a golf course, you'll find if it's not claimed by it's rightful owner, it's the clubs; and that includes balls in lakes or creeks. If a ball lands in my backyard it becomes mine because it's private property; not some guy that see's it and thinks climbing the fence is OK. Fishing balls out as some guys persist at doing is acceptable, unless the course mgt says NO to fishing, and some do. But, rather then post "NO" fishing signs, that could be reason some courses dirty up the water in ponds; so people don't slow play further by ball hunting.

 

To futher complicate the "ball in water" subject most golf courses have contracts with divers to collect balls. You could then be stealing from him, as collecting balls is his contractual business. As for taking that ProV, it's "wrong" too.

 

I was going to write a long response about what constitutes legal ownership, but I was done writing legal essays when I passed the NJ and NY bars 5 years ago. I will just quietly accept the fact that I am an evil person for taking the ProV that the range didn't pay for and I'll see some of you in hell along with me. The cart girls in hell are much more fun!

 

 

Pepper, I respectfully disagree. I do not think the ProV1 is anymore the course's property than the laptop is the airport's property. Of course, there is the matter of a few thousand dollars' difference between a ProV1 and a laptop, so while one can argue that theft is theft, I would have to say there are definite grades of theft. I'm not going to lose sleep over taking a ball that the course did not pay for, or that a golfer left 1 foot into the water or woods. There aren't any "no fishing" rule at my courses.

 

Now would I ever steal a laptop? Of course not. A laptop could, most likely, be returned to the owner, whereas a golf ball cannot. I'm willing to admit that taking the ProV1, even if the course didn't purchase it, is somewhat poor judgement, but I won't say that it's outright wrong. I suppose if an attendant were watching, I wouldn't do it. As it is, I do not make it a habit to take range balls to play on the course, as I do know that the range paid for them, but the ProV1 situation is just a grey area, in my mind.

 

Now, we have different views, but after writing this, I can say the argument as a whole just isn't worth it. I can't believe this thread is 5 pages long, though I recognize I'm just fueling the fire by posting this.