Taking Unused Balls Home from Driving Range (MERGED)

[Sawgrass]

Two things:

1) People have gone to jail for "borrowing" things from retail establishments. I'm sure many of them have stated their intention to return these "borrowed" items in the future after they were aprehended.

2) Using all caps does not necessarily make you accurate in how you define "stealing". I don't have the patience to look it up, but I bet the law will support that taking balls home without permission that don't belong to you is stealing. Or, stated another way, I BET THE LAW WILL SUPPORT THAT TAKING BALLS HOME WITHOUT PERMISSION THAT DON'T BELONG TO YOU IS STEALING.

P.S. On a more serious note, I'm sure that this is a lot like the topic of sneaking into the movie theater. It's a lot more amusing if you don't own a move theater!

[apprenti23]

i like the suggestion someone made earlier... after you're done, why don't you walk up to where you purchased the range balls and tell them you're going to take the rest home and see what they say?

[Blackfinn]

Geez!! Talk about rationalizing to justify a bad act. If you don't hit all the balls then leave them for the next guy - or buy a smaller bucket. Do not take the baskets home with you. It's wrong. Sounds like Pelosi and Ried trying to justify bad legislation..

[InTheHole]

[quote name='Speedly' date='12 March 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1268429138' post='2312064']
"Stealing" means you take ownership of something without the intent of returning it.[/quote]


No, "stealing" means to take ownership of something that does not belong to you. Intent doesn't enter into it.

[Cut Off 6-iron]

Think about it from the range owner's perspective. You have a bunch of people (who might not return the buckets/balls) taking balls claiming they'll come back to hit it. This adds up and then the range has to buy more range balls to replace the ones missing. More money down the drain. I don't know. It's not worth it to take a few range balls home if it's going to cost that many issues.

[doof_dizzler]

Wow. Cheap squared indeed.

If one speaks with the range proprietor or agent thereof, and asks to take unused balls with them for use at a later date, fine! If there's nothing wrong with it, just talk to them about it.

Otherwise, it's at best dishonest, and more likely theft.

[Speedly]

TM, if he paid you for use of the car, it changes the situation. You didn't address that.

[quote]2) Using all caps does not necessarily make you accurate in how you define "stealing".[/quote]

Your argument is over whether or not I said something in caps? Really?

Plus, my definition of stealing is not in caps, it's in the section directly underneath it. The point of the part in caps was to drill it into the skull of the people who don't read entire posts that I don't engage in the practice, and don't believe people should.

You might try (big shock) reading the -entire- post next time.

AGAIN. So there's no confusion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think people should do it, and I would never even consider doing it. But the people that admitted to it are not bad people, and are not golf's equivalent of Satan (or so it would seem by the responses). They paid for the use of the balls, and did not permanently take the balls, therefore, did not steal. What they did is a bad idea and certainly opens the door for being accused of stealing. From the range's point of view, during the period of time where the balls were gone, they appear to be stolen. But they are -not.- It is still a poor practice, but those people are not bad people.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

AGAINAGAIN, so there's NO CONFUSION.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think people should do it, and I would never even consider doing it. But the people that admitted to it are not bad people, and are not golf's equivalent of Satan (or so it would seem by the responses). They paid for the use of the balls, and did not permanently take the balls, therefore, did not steal. What they did is a bad idea and certainly opens the door for being accused of stealing. From the range's point of view, during the period of time where the balls were gone, they appear to be stolen. But they are -not.- It is still a poor practice, but those people are not bad people.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And AGAINAGAINAGAIN, JUST IN CASE YOU STILL MISSED IT.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think people should do it, and I would never even consider doing it. But the people that admitted to it are not bad people, and are not golf's equivalent of Satan (or so it would seem by the responses). They paid for the use of the balls, and did not permanently take the balls, therefore, did not steal. What they did is a bad idea and certainly opens the door for being accused of stealing. From the range's point of view, during the period of time where the balls were gone, they appear to be stolen. But they are -not.- It is still a poor practice, but those people are not bad people.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Now put down your friggin' pitchforks.

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Speedly' date='13 March 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1268517389' post='2313852']
TM, if he paid you for use of the car, it changes the situation. You didn't address that.

[quote]2) Using all caps does not necessarily make you accurate in how you define "stealing".[/quote]

Your argument is over whether or not I said something in caps? Really?

Plus, my definition of stealing is not in caps, it's in the section directly underneath it. The point of the part in caps was to drill it into the skull of the people who don't read entire posts that I don't engage in the practice, and don't believe people should.

You might try (big shock) reading the -entire- post next time.

AGAIN. So there's no confusion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think people should do it, and I would never even consider doing it. But the people that admitted to it are not bad people, and are not golf's equivalent of Satan (or so it would seem by the responses). They paid for the use of the balls, and did not permanently take the balls, therefore, did not steal. What they did is a bad idea and certainly opens the door for being accused of stealing. From the range's point of view, during the period of time where the balls were gone, they appear to be stolen. But they are -not.- It is still a poor practice, but those people are not bad people.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

AGAINAGAIN, so there's NO CONFUSION.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think people should do it, and I would never even consider doing it. But the people that admitted to it are not bad people, and are not golf's equivalent of Satan (or so it would seem by the responses). They paid for the use of the balls, and did not permanently take the balls, therefore, did not steal. What they did is a bad idea and certainly opens the door for being accused of stealing. From the range's point of view, during the period of time where the balls were gone, they appear to be stolen. But they are -not.- It is still a poor practice, but those people are not bad people.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And AGAINAGAINAGAIN, JUST IN CASE YOU STILL MISSED IT.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think people should do it, and I would never even consider doing it. But the people that admitted to it are not bad people, and are not golf's equivalent of Satan (or so it would seem by the responses). They paid for the use of the balls, and did not permanently take the balls, therefore, did not steal. What they did is a bad idea and certainly opens the door for being accused of stealing. From the range's point of view, during the period of time where the balls were gone, they appear to be stolen. But they are -not.- It is still a poor practice, but those people are not bad people.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Now put down your friggin' pitchforks.
[/quote]


The people that do this don't own the balls. Intent means absolutely nothing. You leave the range property, IT IS STEALING! It is not a poor practice, IT IS STEALING! Quit trying to justify an ILLEGAL act. The people that do this are lacking in ethics and a sense of right and wrong. It is a criminal act because IT IS STEALING! And to make this very clear, IT IS STEALING!

[Speedly]

First, I am not arguing the actual legality of doing this nowadays. Nowhere have I said anything about being illegal or not, and by your post, I think we're arguing different things.

However, are there any WRXers on here actually police officers? And no, I don't mean, your husband's a cop, or you work as a receptionist in a station. I mean, you, personally, are a trained and official police officer of the law. No security guards, no mall cops. It's not that I have anything against people in those positions; after all, they have a definite hand in keeping the peace of society. However, police officers are ordained so by an entity of government, and are charged with having the knowledge and authority to apply and enforce the laws of their jurisdiction.

I am curious. I'd like to see what the official (not what-I-heard or what-"everybody"-knows) view of the situation is, full well knowing the player paid for use of the balls and has been actually using them as they are intended to be used (so someone doesn't try to make the weak argument of semantics, I mean that they're hit with golf clubs at the range at which their use was purchased), and keeping absolutely zero of them as his own or otherwise permanently removing said range balls from the range's possession (giving to friends, swatting them into a field, etc.).

Note the word "permanently." For the purpose of detail, let's say this person purchased use of the balls four days ago, and hit 1/4 of the balls on the day their use was purchased. They then returned two days later, and again hit 1/4 of the original purchase, leaving 1/2. They again returned today, and hit 1/4 of their balls again, leaving 1/4. I lay this out because it shows clear use (read: return) of the balls that were paid for and appropriated to the person. But the range still has 1/4 of a bucket floating out there somewhere, that have been paid for and are being returned to the course in the manner in which they were intended to be used (again, drop your semantic argument, I'm referring to being hit at the range at which they were purchased). They are clearly being returned to the range at what most people would call a reasonable pace, but not being used in one sitting.

It can surely be argued that the balls are normally used by a grand, grand majority of people during the outing that they were purchased for use, and that it's understood that this condition is implied with the purchase of the balls' usage. But nowhere on this range or the signs of the range does it specifically say this, or prohibit the practice in question.

What does [i]the law[/i] (not your opinion) say about something like this?

[tinman]

[quote name='hogan64' date='12 March 2010 - 11:13 AM' timestamp='1268410436' post='2311388']
ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!! They are not your balls, period. You have NO right to remove them from the range. This is the mentality that makes business owners crazy. Do you go to an all you can eat buffet, eat your fill, and then fill a large cooler with food to take home? After all it's all you can eat, right? Well you'll be able to eat more later, so you might as well take home a weeks worth of food. That seems fair. GROW UP ppl.

sorry for the caps, but I [i]AM yelling![/i]


[/quote]


No yelling from the peanut gallery!!

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='Speedly' date='14 March 2010 - 07:48 AM' timestamp='1268567303' post='2314765']
First, I am not arguing the actual legality of doing this nowadays. Nowhere have I said anything about being illegal or not, and by your post, I think we're arguing different things.

However, are there any WRXers on here actually police officers? And no, I don't mean, your husband's a cop, or you work as a receptionist in a station. I mean, you, personally, are a trained and official police officer of the law. No security guards, no mall cops. It's not that I have anything against people in those positions; after all, they have a definite hand in keeping the peace of society. However, police officers are ordained so by an entity of government, and are charged with having the knowledge and authority to apply and enforce the laws of their jurisdiction.

I am curious. I'd like to see what the official (not what-I-heard or what-"everybody"-knows) view of the situation is, full well knowing the player paid for use of the balls and has been actually using them as they are intended to be used (so someone doesn't try to make the weak argument of semantics, I mean that they're hit with golf clubs at the range at which their use was purchased), and keeping absolutely zero of them as his own or otherwise permanently removing said range balls from the range's possession (giving to friends, swatting them into a field, etc.).

Note the word "permanently." For the purpose of detail, let's say this person purchased use of the balls four days ago, and hit 1/4 of the balls on the day their use was purchased. They then returned two days later, and again hit 1/4 of the original purchase, leaving 1/2. They again returned today, and hit 1/4 of their balls again, leaving 1/4. I lay this out because it shows clear use (read: return) of the balls that were paid for and appropriated to the person. But the range still has 1/4 of a bucket floating out there somewhere, that have been paid for and are being returned to the course in the manner in which they were intended to be used (again, drop your semantic argument, I'm referring to being hit at the range at which they were purchased). They are clearly being returned to the range at what most people would call a reasonable pace, but not being used in one sitting.

It can surely be argued that the balls are normally used by a grand, grand majority of people during the outing that they were purchased for use, and that it's understood that this condition is implied with the purchase of the balls' usage. But nowhere on this range or the signs of the range does it specifically say this, or prohibit the practice in question.

What does [i]the law[/i] (not your opinion) say about something like this?
[/quote]

You talk about semantics but that is all you are you using in your arguments. You talk about purchased but the person did not purchase the balls, they paid for their use and use of the hitting area. You talk of intent and permanently. When you take the balls off the course, there is no way to know with 100% certainly what your actions are going to be later on. Whether the balls will be returned or not. That is why intent is does not justify the action of taking the balls off the course. The only way to show intent is to leave something of value (like a credit card number) so if you do not return them, the owner can receive value of what was not returned (and that is not being done).

Bottom line, you are going to use any reasoning (I really mean excuse) to justify the action of taking the balls off the course. And regardless of any reason you give, it is both legally and ethically wrong to do that. Tell you what. How about if you go to a driving range where the owner is packing a handgun on his hip. Pay for the largest bucket of balls, hit half, walk to your car with the bucket of unhit balls, and put it in the trunk, all in full sight of the owner. Then report back to us what the owners reaction is. I will bet you will not be leaving the range with those balls even after you tell the owner you intend to come back and finish the bucket.

[larrybud]

[quote name='stage1350' date='12 March 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1268428534' post='2312042']
For those of you that think taking balls home is an acceptable practice, why have the balls to let the owner know of your intentions?[/quote]
I didn't say it was acceptable, but only that I do it!

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Not that I am surprised with anything around here, but nevertheless I am appalled at a few of you condoning the removal of range balls & buckets to be used up at your convenience. If you're that damned cheap, and without conscience, play a sport you can afford to participate in.

The truly sad part of it is that I'd bet some of the culprits are gaming $2000 worth of sticks in their bags.

It is truly the era of self-entitlement.

[OneBowTie]

The best part of this is..... I bet that the same posters on this topic that don't get it.... are the first ones to jump on rule's threads and claim how they always obide by and follow the rules and toss daggers at those who take two on the first tee!!!

Hypocrisy at its finest.....

[srockafe]

Self-entitlement is really a word that gets thrown around far [b]too[/b] often. I feel this is partly because of the wealth required to play golf, the number of wealthy Conservatives, and the many that frequent this board. I'm not personally attacking anyone, but in a lot of cases, it's just a new word to attack someone with a more liberal view of an issue.

Stealing is wrong, taking balls with the "intent" of bringing them back is not stealing, but morally questionable to some. I'm not going to attack someone for doing it unless it becomes a problem like the stories of teens and "Jumbo bucket". Please don't reply with a slipperly slope argument.

When people [u]sometimes[/u] take range balls and put them in their cart shed to use post-round, I have no problem with it as long as they don't care if anyone else does it once in awhile as well. If the club posts policies that say range balls don't leave the range then people should respect that. Our course does not so therefore it is common practice to do combination of leaving balls for others and keeping them for post round.

[Pondy]

This is black and white.

It is ethically wrong to take balls or buckets away from the range without the owners' permission.

It is illegal to take balls or buckets away from the range without the owners' permission.

Your father did not teach you to take balls or buckets from the range without the owners' permission.

Your playing partner(s) do not respect you for removing balls or buckets without the owner's permission (If you had the stones to tell them).

Finally, if you're the kind of guy that will walk off with range balls, what does that say about you as a person, when something important is on the line?

With one limited exception for the guy who will practice on the course range after his round, all the others who are trying to rationalize taking balls are cheats.

It seems there are two types of golfers:

1- Old school - the guys who play it where it lies, don't cheat, don't steal, write the honest score on their cards, and shake your hand at the end of the round. They are also 'pay it forward' with their extra range balls.

2- Those that aren't.

Which are you?

[mesquite2]

Along the same lines, we have a nine hole cart rate & sometimes people pay for a 9 hole cart & an 18 hole greenfee. When I check their golf receipt it has a big " 9h " in red letters that the pro shop puts on it to alert me that is just for 9 holes. This AUTOMATICALLY tells me that they are going to try to sneak by me on the 10th tee. It NEVER works, because I have to write down every groups 9 hole times, starting times & 18 hole times so I can notify my ranger if a group needs "prodding". I usually get " I paid for a 18 hole cart", or oh, yeah, I forgot or I'll pay the rest when I am done". Sorry, but I've heard it all before, leave the cart, or go to the pro shop & bring me the receipt for the other 9 holes, which btw, will have cost them $2.00 dollars more, because a 18 hole cart is $16 & a 9 holer is $9.00 per 9.

[larrybud]

I think in the grand scheme of things, borrowing 20 balls for a week from a range or course that you frequent falls between chewing with your mouth open and not holding the door open for someone on the scale of sins.

[pastatime]

WOW!! Is all I can say. I thought about posting something along the lines of this is STEALING blah blah.. Iam just marking these people who have NO ethics or morals at all and will kept an eye out on the bst for these thiefs cause that is what they are.. The Wikipedia def of a Theft is- In[size=2] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law"]criminal law[/url], [b]theft[/b] is the illegal taking of another person's [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property"]property[/url] without that person's freely-given [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent"]consent[/url]. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime"]crimes[/url] against property, such as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary"]burglary[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement"]embezzlement[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larceny"]larceny[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting"]looting[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery"]robbery[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoplifting"]shoplifting[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud"]fraud[/url] and sometimes [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conversion"]criminal conversion[/url]. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synonym"]synonymous[/url] with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larceny"]larceny[/url]; in others, theft has replaced larceny.[/size]

[srockafe]

[quote name='pastatime' date='14 March 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1268596723' post='2315334']
WOW!! Is all I can say. I thought about posting something along the lines of this is STEALING blah blah.. Iam just marking these people who have NO ethics or morals at all and will kept an eye out on the bst for these thiefs cause that is what they are.. The Wikipedia def of a Theft is- In[size=2] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law"]criminal law[/url], [b]theft[/b] is the illegal taking of another person's [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property"]property[/url] without that person's freely-given [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent"]consent[/url]. The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime"]crimes[/url] against property, such as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary"]burglary[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement"]embezzlement[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larceny"]larceny[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting"]looting[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery"]robbery[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoplifting"]shoplifting[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud"]fraud[/url] and sometimes [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conversion"]criminal conversion[/url]. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synonym"]synonymous[/url] with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larceny"]larceny[/url]; in others, theft has replaced larceny.[/size]
[/quote]

bad boys bad boys whatcha gonna do...

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

[quote name='srockafe' date='14 March 2010 - 11:01 AM' timestamp='1268589693' post='2315148']
Self-entitlement is really a word that gets thrown around far [b]too[/b] often. I feel this is partly because of the wealth required to play golf, the number of wealthy Conservatives, and the many that frequent this board. I'm not personally attacking anyone, but in a lot of cases, it's just a new word to attack someone with a more liberal view of an issue.

[/quote]


Uh huh...

If individuals such as you and Larry feel it's within your right to remove a bucket of balls from someone elses practice area, do what Stage suggested, and ask the proprietor if it's ok with him/her....and come back and let us all know how far you get with that.

[larrybud]

I also go 10 mph over the speed limit on the freeway. I wonder how many of the perfect people here do that, and do you make sure you tell the cops about it? Gimme a break!

[Cut Off 6-iron]

[quote name='larrybud' date='14 March 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1268603186' post='2315557']
I also go 10 mph over the speed limit on the freeway. I wonder how many of the perfect people here do that, and do you make sure you tell the cops about it? Gimme a break!
[/quote]

That's very different. Most cops don't care about you driving 10 mph over the speed limit. Tell the range owner about you taking a few balls with you?

[TM_HOYER]

[quote name='larrybud' date='14 March 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1268603186' post='2315557']
I also go 10 mph over the speed limit on the freeway. I wonder how many of the perfect people here do that, and do you make sure you tell the cops about it? Gimme a break!
[/quote]

As I said previously, any excuse to justify their actions. When we debunk their excuse, they will come up with another.

[Pondy]

Yes, you are 100% right.

To go back to Stage's comment, if some of these guys actually asked the range operator if was OK to hang on to a bunch until next time, the operator might possibly say 'yes'. That would make it OK. However, the reason that guys don't ask is that the operator would likely say 'no', and they know it. And THAT is the root of the issue: Guys know it is not ok, so they rationalize it their heads as being OK.

April 15th is my birthday and I feel I shouldn't have to pay my taxes for that reason. I'm wondering if any of the guys can help me rationalize a way out of it.

[dlygrisse]

If I owned a range, and caught you leaving the property with my range balls, I would call the police and press charges. Word would spread and the practice would stop.

As a range owner how do you know they are coming back? When are they coming back? How do I know you arent going to hit them at another range when you play there next week or month?

Range balls cost money, if people walk off with them the range loses money, has to raise prices for the honest people or lay people off to make ends meet.

It is funny how thieves always justify their actions thinking businesses have money to burn, when in the end it is the honest people that end up paying.

Now if you know the owner of the range, and let him know what you are doing and he/she doesnt care that is another story, but if you dont have permission it is a pretty black and white issue.

If ranges wanted you to take the balls with you they would give you a doggie bag like a restaurant, difference is golf balls are reusable, food you ordered has to be thrown away, if anyone knows of a range with doggie bags let me know, I'll see you next weekend.


Ask yourself this question.....if you are putting the balls in your trunk or bag would you do it in front of the owner, or would you wait till they left or turned their back? I think the answer is obvious.

[srockafe]

At our club it's a quite common practice to use balls post league match as I stated earlier. I never said I would do this at any random driving range. After speaking to the course manager and head greenskeeper, both replied that they sometimes do it as well. The greenskeeper said the only time it would cause a problem would be during the Pro-Am and club championship where range traffic is at maximum.

[Speedly]

TM:

[quote]The only way to show intent is to leave something of value (like a credit card number) so if you do not return them, the owner can receive value of what was not returned (and that is not being done).[/quote]
To be honest, I skimmed your post, something I do realize is hypocritical of me. You and I clearly don't see eye-to-eye on this, and likely wouldn't on anything else.

But the quoted line caught my eye - and I think that would be an excellent way to go about covering for the contingency of someone who keeps the balls as their own. If it were at a club, you could simply lump in an amount sufficient for coverage into the membership fees. They'd have their membership, and you'd have your insurance, of sorts.

pastatime:

[quote]Iam just marking these people who have NO ethics or morals at all and will kept an eye out on the bst for these thiefs cause that is what they are.[/quote]
Hah. Ok. You do that. Before you put my name on the list, make sure you read -the entirety- of my posts, Mr. Self-Righteous.

[quote]The Wikipedia def[/quote]
Hold it. Stop. Your source pretty much invalidates your argument, whether or not it's correct. Wikipedia is user-edited, which is why for the last few months, Gloria Allred's page has claimed she's a succubus (which I'm not sure whether or not has been fixed yet), and the hosts' page of a local radio show has claimed one of them killed a man and that the other has had a partial lobotomy. At any rate, go away.

larrybud:

[quote]I also go 10 mph over the speed limit on the freeway. I wonder how many of the perfect people here do that, and do you make sure you tell the cops about it? Gimme a break![/quote]
Regrettably, I do have to agree with those on the other side of the argument on this one. Think about my point that bringing the balls with you for later use, and that there aren't any specific signs saying you can't. The speed limit signs do clearly lay out what's within the law and what isn't - there's basically no wiggle room on that one. =/

dlygrisse:

[quote]If I owned a range, and caught you leaving the property with my range balls, I would call the police and press charges.[/quote]
And that would be completely within your rights, because you can't exactly get inside someone's head and tell whether they're honestly planning on bringing them back or not. But just because it's perceived that they're trying to steal them and keep them doesn't necessarily mean that it's always true. But doing so definitely opens the door wide open to being accused of stealing, and certainly isn't worth the risk.

As for the other contents of your post, keep in mind that those of us arguing right now share a common thread - we don't and wouldn't engage in the practice. None of us are thieves.

[mshills]

[quote name='larrybud' date='14 March 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1268603186' post='2315557']
I also go 10 mph over the speed limit on the freeway. I wonder how many of the perfect people here do that, and do you make sure you tell the cops about it? Gimme a break!
[/quote]

A non sequitur is always useful to defend the indefensible.

[Sawgrass]

People who go 10 MPH over the speed limit know that they're doing something wrong. They do it anyway because it's worth the risk to them. They don't pretend that it is not an infraction.

People who take range balls without permission are pretending they're not doing something wrong. If they'd all just say, "Screw it, I know it's wrong but I'm doing it anyway" as some here have said, it would at least stop the weak justifications.

And by the way, I don't believe anyone here who views this range ball thing as stealing thinks that it's up there with major crimes. So stop that strawman in his tracks, and throw him in the pokey.