Sam's guess at Hogan's secret...

[dap]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1316337305' post='3571479']
Let's relax a bit, nobody's telling the other is wrong. We're just exchanging notes here. Heck we can ALL be wrong, only Hogan knows. We can even be ALL correct...lol I think it has been agreed that we all can disagree...lol As they say, you will learn only if someone tells you something different...lol Off to the dirt I am!
[/quote]
lol oh I am relaxed,it's just a discussion on golf,not mine is bigger than yours....or is it?lol

p.s I meant the brain...what were you thinking?lol

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1316341973' post='3571498']
TeeAce,nobody is arguing the correct definition of supination.No it isn't arching the left wrist.I get it.

Hogan's definition is within the context of the golf swing.He wanted to arch the left wrist at impact [b]and in the process achieved supination[/b].Within the context of the golf swing in a dynamic action,both will occur which is what I believe golow is saying.You have to supinate in order to arch the left wrist IN A GOLF SWING with a club in your hand.


[/quote]

No it didn't. You still use wrong term there after all the given information.

rised wristbone and bowed wrist is not supination. It is something else, ant that I have tried to explain many times already.

The picture Hogan called supination can be created two ways: By palmar flexion or by Ulnar deviation. If You only watch the wrist and hand, You can't say which one has made it. That has been my message. Only thing You can say clearly, is that it got nothing to do with supination or that there might be just little bit supination included.

If You want to know what has made the hand look like that, lets talk about bowed wrist instead of "supination" You have to follow the arm upwards and put some attention to the movements of humans arm and it's connection to the shoulder. By PF You don't get the wrist bone rise and it's possible to do that without that elbow moves up and out. By PF there can still be angle between shaft and left arm, But look at the picture I posted. No angle and the back of the hand is still pointing to face on camera. So there has been UD but not PF and absolutely no supination at that moment.

And this is critical for those who understand those real terms ow arms and hands movements. That's why I keep correcting that word. To avoid misleadings that has done enough bad for many players during years.

[dap]

Well there you go,TeeAce's is bigger than mine.

p.s I mean the brain lol

[svsvincenzo]

No, Teeace is saying you'll achieve supination and flat wrist at impact if you JUST UD/unccck the left wrist. UD...then arching/bowing/flat left wrist will follow...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1316342535' post='3571502']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1316337305' post='3571479']
Let's relax a bit, nobody's telling the other is wrong. We're just exchanging notes here. Heck we can ALL be wrong, only Hogan knows. We can even be ALL correct...lol I think it has been agreed that we all can disagree...lol As they say, you will learn only if someone tells you something different...lol Off to the dirt I am!
[/quote]
lol oh I am relaxed,it's just a discussion on golf,not mine is bigger than yours....or is it?lol

p.s I meant the brain...what were you thinking?lol
[/quote]

Lol... Didn't even thought about that...but you did?!..lol... Peace man...lol

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1316344418' post='3571511']
No, Teeace is saying you'll achieve [b]supination and flat wrist at impact[/b] if you JUST UD/unccck the left wrist. UD...then arching/bowing/flat left wrist will follow...
[/quote]

And now even You

Are You bot kidding me and I'm wasting time here?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1316345817' post='3571523']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1316344418' post='3571511']
No, Teeace is saying you'll achieve [b]supination and flat wrist at impact[/b] if you JUST UD/unccck the left wrist. UD...then arching/bowing/flat left wrist will follow...
[/quote]

And now even You

Are You bot kidding me and I'm wasting time here?
[/quote]

Oops..apologies..should not have mentioned supination... Lol .. Is that correct now?..hehe

[moehogan]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

[JOEGOLFWRX]

the truble is sum people dont read good, lol.

where is hogan wrong ? give me an actual quote, not what you thought he wrote.

[dap]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

You mentioned "supinated"...now you done it.

 

TeeAce is gonna be upset now.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

re: that guy, when i saw these first, i had originally thought first tee, usual dignitary's, different days, due to the face likeness, and name tag

which would mean the swing is a practice swing, eg

[attachment=860164:46hill_edsul.jpg]

but it could be someone else, the shoes are dirty, lol, but not gardiner, he's was later.

maybe i didnt want to admit he had a doppelganger, who dressed like him and brings into question every hogan image out there, lol

[TeeAce]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

You mentioned "supinated"...now you done it.

 

TeeAce is gonna be upset now.

 

Not at all. In that picture both dorsiflexion and supination can be seen.

[svsvincenzo]

But Tee, wouldn't UD automatically result to supination as well? Or you think left wrist is bending immediately after impact instead of supinating?

[TeeAce]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1316351050' post='3571576']
the truble is sum people dont read good, lol.

where is hogan wrong ? give me an actual quote, not what you thought he wrote.
[/quote]

He was wrong with both terms supination and pronation. I don't understand how that can be so hard to accept

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1316352725' post='3571607']
But Tee, wouldn't UD automatically result to supination as well? Or you think left wrist is bending immediately after impact instead of supinating?
[/quote]


How the heck it could do that?

Can You tell me what You mean with supination?

[dap]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

You mentioned "supinated"...now you done it.

 

TeeAce is gonna be upset now.

 

Not at all. In that picture both dorsiflexion and supination can be seen.

Wrong.Half the left hand is hidden behind the right.Dorsiflexion cannot be SEEN.You are just assuming it like you do everything else.

[JD3]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

The snapper he hit on 18 US Open loss at Olympic? Werent the conditions sloppy? Could explain dirty shoes? Looks like same outfit.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2009/golf_duels/golf_duels_1955.jpg

 

Some more trivia Moe? haha

[TeeAce]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

You mentioned "supinated"...now you done it.

 

TeeAce is gonna be upset now.

 

Not at all. In that picture both dorsiflexion and supination can be seen.

Wrong.Half the left hand is hidden behind the right.Dorsiflexion cannot be SEEN.You are just assuming it like you do everything else.

 

Ok I get it. I thought there were people who had meaning to learn and have professional level of discussion. I was wrong and You are just having fun with me.

 

I'm out.. the secret is in the dirt.

[eightiron]

Bananas , don't stop .. why the concern over Hogans hand and arm work , you gotta sniff his pivot first , right ? Did snead know Hogans swing .. I'm guessing since he hated to watch it , he didn't ..plus Hogan was more elbow leading before the wreck .. like reading all #3 and hinge , although it must be from a different tgm book....

[JOEGOLFWRX]

dirty shoes on the first tee, never, lol.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1316352775' post='3571608']
[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1316351050' post='3571576']
the truble is sum people dont read good, lol.

where is hogan wrong ? give me an actual quote, not what you thought he wrote.
[/quote]

He was [b]wrong with both terms supination and pronation[/b]. I don't understand how that can be so hard to accept
[/quote]

where is the quote where he is wrong ?

[TeeAce]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1316354533' post='3571654']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1316352775' post='3571608']
[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1316351050' post='3571576']
the truble is sum people dont read good, lol.

where is hogan wrong ? give me an actual quote, not what you thought he wrote.
[/quote]

He was [b]wrong with both terms supination and pronation[/b]. I don't understand how that can be so hard to accept
[/quote]

where is the quote where he is wrong ?
[/quote]

Just post 5L here and I will make the quote for You. Another way is that You read the book.

[golow]

Sorry that I jumped into an already discussion without getting a feel for everyones history.

Just as I explained that some motions makes others easier to follow - centrifugal effect on mechanically looser parts (open pack positions of joints), TeeAce is right in that UD is limited (and can hurt)in Dorsiflexion, 30-35º in a neutral position, and "opens up" to 40º in Palmar flexion.

One reason why hands rise thru impact (for so many players at all levels) and toe digs (OK that is just my excuse).

I research this stuff a lot, but I still learn so much in these Swing and Hogan threads because I get to hear what you guys or your students feel and perceive. And I love the semantic/nomenclature arguments that end hen people realize they were saying the same thing. Good stuff

golow(TM)

[dap]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

You mentioned "supinated"...now you done it.

 

TeeAce is gonna be upset now.

 

Not at all. In that picture both dorsiflexion and supination can be seen.

Wrong.Half the left hand is hidden behind the right.Dorsiflexion cannot be SEEN.You are just assuming it like you do everything else.

 

Ok I get it. I thought there were people who had meaning to learn and have professional level of discussion. I was wrong and You are just having fun with me.

 

I'm out.. the secret is in the dirt.

 

Not having fun with you.Nothing wrong with what I said.You can't see most of his left hand.How can you tell its in dorsiflexion?It could be flat as a washboard for all we know.

 

You nitpick other peoples words but don't like it happening to you?

 

Look,lets just agree to disagree.No need to take your ball and go home.

[3righthands]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1316351532' post='3571587']
re: that guy, when i saw these first, i had originally thought first tee, usual dignitary's, different days, due to the face likeness, and name tag

which would mean the swing is a practice swing, eg

[attachment=860164:46hill_edsul.jpg]

but it could be someone else, the shoes are dirty, lol, but not gardiner, he's was later.

maybe i didnt want to admit he had a doppelganger, who dressed like him and brings into question every hogan image out there, lol
[/quote]

The shoes aren't dirty - they're suede.

[TeeAce]

One more post:

[url="http://teeace.kapsi.fi/supination.MOV"]Supination[/url]

[url="http://teeace.kapsi.fi/supinationwithclub.MOV"]with club[/url]



It's quite far away what Hogan called supination in 5L

[golow]

Yes Hogan used "supination" in 5L to describe wrist action in the sagittal plane (flex/extend) ... and that's just misuse of the word.

Confusing thing for some is that it is accepted to use supination/pronation interchangeably with inversion/eversion of the foot. So I guess some do the same with the hand.

golow(TM)

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1316352877' post='3571610']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1316352725' post='3571607']
But Tee, wouldn't UD automatically result to supination as well? Or you think left wrist is bending immediately after impact instead of supinating?
[/quote]


How the heck it could do that?

Can You tell me what You mean with supination?
[/quote]

Supination of left/lead hand is rotating it ccw, palm going to face the sky, back of left hand to face the ground.

If you supinate with left wrist in dorsi flexion, holy molly half balls or whiff balls if you don't duck.

[svsvincenzo]

This fella has actually supinated his left hand/forearm while having his left wrist in dorsiflexion.

 

You mentioned "supinated"...now you done it.

 

TeeAce is gonna be upset now.

 

Not at all. In that picture both dorsiflexion and supination can be seen.

Wrong.Half the left hand is hidden behind the right.Dorsiflexion cannot be SEEN.You are just assuming it like you do everything else.

 

Ok I get it. I thought there were people who had meaning to learn and have professional level of discussion. I was wrong and You are just having fun with me.

 

I'm out.. the secret is in the dirt.

 

I think Dap's right and not messing with you. Hogan's right hand is super weak, and his left is weak. So with the 3 right hands going forward, it would look exactly like that, and the pic in FLW topic, and the pic in Golf Digest Nick Seitz interview...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='golow' timestamp='1316354982' post='3571670']
Yes Hogan used "supination" in 5L to describe wrist action in the sagittal plane (flex/extend) ... and that's just misuse of the word.

Confusing thing for some is that it is accepted to use supination/pronation interchangeably with inversion/eversion of the foot. So I guess some do the same with the hand.

golow(TM)
[/quote]

Your username is copyrighted/trademarked?!..lol