Tiger is lost

[19tholer]

I'm curious to see how Tiger does in Florida. He should be comfortable on those greens, so putting shouldn't be an issue. It'll be interesting to see how far this latest comeback takes him. My guess is he'll be like Phil now. He'll have his ups and downs.

On the other hand, I'll be real disappointed in the new "young guns" letting TW take them down on Sunday. Rory and the boys can play some golf. 2011 proved that.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='DLiver' timestamp='1330172743' post='4372845']
This thread made me curious enough to look at Tiger's stats for the year, and I was a little surprised at how good they were. His ball striking stats are actually pretty good. He is 4th in driving accuracy (!), 8th in GIR, 7th in scoring average and 11th in birdie average.

The [b]glaring fail[/b] is in putting (as others have said). He is 180th in the telling "strokes gained" putting stat. IOW, he is giving up 1.5 strokes per round on the greens to the average tour pro. He is giving up nearly 3 strokes per round to the putting leaders! Wowza. He just can't get the ball in the hole.

The longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be for him to recover. There have been players who have recovered from deep putting slumps (Retief Goosen comes to mind), but I don't know if we will ever see the old dominating Tiger again.
[/quote]
Exactly! Anyone blaming foley clearly isn't watching the entire picture. His swing and ball striking are as good as they've been in 8 years. he's forgotten how to putt!

Tiger has always depended on his putting and short game. Go back to some of his major wins and look at some of the TERRIBLE , I mean absolutely HORRIBLE , shots he's hit under pressure. then he pulls an up and down out of his butt to keep the momentum going.

You almost never saw Jack or Hogan or Faldo do that sort of stuff. They had more control over their ball from tee to green. Tiger's biggest attribute has always been his short game and putting.

the focus that everyone is putting on his swing is way off. With tiger's short game from any point from 96-2008, he would have won 3 tournaments this year.

[tigers9iron]

the 3 major swing rebuilds is the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports, to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.

[hogans71]

[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330189483' post='4374033']
the 3 major swing rebuilds is[b][i][u] the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports[/u][/i][/b], to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.
[/quote]

Wow- that's saying something...

[Golfnutgalen]

[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330189483' post='4374033']
the 3 major swing rebuilds is the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports, to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.
[/quote]

He won the same percentage of majors under Haney and won a larger percentage of tournaments. His problems have been injuries, the Thanksgiving incident, and/or Sean Foley. I actually like his swing under Foley, but he doesn't have any PGA Tour wins to show for it.

[farmer]

I'm sure there are stats available, but how close has he been on the greens. 18 greens hit, but 30-40 feet away will hurt putting stats.

[Golfnutgalen]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1330193273' post='4374441']
I'm sure there are stats available, but how close has he been on the greens. 18 greens hit, but 30-40 feet away will hurt putting stats.
[/quote]

37' 7" 92nd place. However, this does not affect[b] strokes gained putting[/b] (it would affect the previous PPGIR, which is no longer measured) where he is ranked -1.470 180th. Also, these stats are only from two rounds at pebble beach, nothing else. He'll need to play more tournaments for us to really know how his game is.

[tigers9iron]

[quote name='Golfnutgalen' timestamp='1330192518' post='4374367']
[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330189483' post='4374033']
the 3 major swing rebuilds is the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports, to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.
[/quote]

He won the same percentage of majors under Haney and won a larger percentage of tournaments. His problems have been injuries, the Thanksgiving incident, and/or Sean Foley. I actually like his swing under Foley, but he doesn't have any PGA Tour wins to show for it.
[/quote]

true but my point is tiger gave up two years in his prime to build the haney swing and now at least 2 more years to build the foley swing. I think he may have drastically over thought his ability to continually get better with rebuilds. He never got better than 2000. He is a rare once in a lifetime talent which leads to different thought processes we cant comprehend but i'm not sure how this all plays out now

[herdman]

[quote name='corky' timestamp='1330139397' post='4371361']
[quote name='herdman' timestamp='1330131126' post='4370497']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330121690' post='4369473']
Great!

Now answer the question who was the best golfer last year.
[/quote]

I did. Rory was the best golfer last year and right now. Luke was ranked based on the world ranking system. There are better golfers than Luke.
If Luke played Rory 10 times or a hundred times, Rory wins the majority of the matches.
[/quote]


Define 'Better Golfer'....
[/quote]


Rory is more talented for one. Two, he will win more than Luke ever will. I don't bet, but if I did the majority of the time I put money on Rory over Luke. Luke Donald is a working mans #1. Serviceable and #1 during a time when there is not a dominant golfer or even a collection of dominate golfers. Being ranked higher doesn't mean who is better. Donald had an awesome year. He was deserving off his ranking, no doubt.

[MileHighClub]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1330190968' post='4374185']
[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330189483' post='4374033']
the 3 major swing rebuilds is[b][i][u] the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports[/u][/i][/b], to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.
[/quote]

Wow- that's saying something...
[/quote]

Some minds are easily boggled.

[tigers9iron]

i just think that if tiger is 46 and still needs 2 majors to pass or even tie Jack that he is going to really wish he hadnt wasted 6 years of his prime on the range rebuilding his swing. If he does go into his late 40s or even early 50s needing 1 or 2 more majors I wonder how that plays out? does he keep getting after it? not sure he could step away at 50 stuck on 17 or even 18

[Vindog]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1330190968' post='4374185']
[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330189483' post='4374033']
the 3 major swing rebuilds is[b][i][u] the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports[/u][/i][/b], to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.
[/quote]

Wow- that's saying something...
[/quote]

All this time I thought it was letting Babe Ruth go.

silly me.

[tigers9iron]

You dont think dismatling arguably the best golf game ever seen on 3 different occasions within his prime is mind boggling? Thats like tiger at 20 yrs old telling Jack that he'll give him 6 yrs of his prime to rebuilds and still try to break his record.

[hogans71]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330201280' post='4375147']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1330190968' post='4374185']
[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330189483' post='4374033']
the 3 major swing rebuilds is[b][i][u] the most mind boggling thing in the history of sports[/u][/i][/b], to me at least. there is no real evidence that any of the rebuilds put less pressure on his knee, i dont buy that theory. its his junior swing that shredded his knee. If tiger stuck with the 2000 swing he gets to 19 majors this year. He gave up 6 years of productivity in his prime, absolutely unheard of. the ability to swing the club 3 radically different ways at the highest level shows absurd talent, but they dont hand out majors for that.
[/quote]

Wow- that's saying something...
[/quote]

All this time I thought it was letting Babe Ruth go.

silly me.
[/quote]

Yeah- probably not... Who knew sports even EXISTED before 1997...

Its not even close to the most impressive thing TW has done in his entire career...

[Vindog]

[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330201862' post='4375213']
You dont think dismatling arguably the best golf game ever seen on 3 different occasions within his prime is mind boggling? Thats like tiger at 20 yrs old telling Jack that he'll give him 6 yrs of his prime to rebuilds and still try to break his record.
[/quote]

Mind boggling, yes. But lets keep it confined here.

It falls just a weee tad short of the Most Mind Boggling Thing In The History Of Sports.

[hogans71]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330204634' post='4375501']
[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330201862' post='4375213']
You dont think dismatling arguably the best golf game ever seen on 3 different occasions within his prime is mind boggling? Thats like tiger at 20 yrs old telling Jack that he'll give him 6 yrs of his prime to rebuilds and still try to break his record.
[/quote]

Mind boggling, yes. But lets keep it confined here.

It falls just a weee tad short of the Most Mind Boggling Thing In The History Of Sports.
[/quote]

Those are my sentiments...

I find his 10 POY's, his 10 money titles and his 8 Vardon Trophy wins (all in basically 13 years- discounting the last two) FAR more impressive. Not too mention his 2000 season...

All of sports? No.

[tigers9iron]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1330205386' post='4375553']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330204634' post='4375501']
[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330201862' post='4375213']
You dont think dismatling arguably the best golf game ever seen on 3 different occasions within his prime is mind boggling? Thats like tiger at 20 yrs old telling Jack that he'll give him 6 yrs of his prime to rebuilds and still try to break his record.
[/quote]

Mind boggling, yes. But lets keep it confined here.

It falls just a weee tad short of the Most Mind Boggling Thing In The History Of Sports.
[/quote]

Those are my sentiments...

I find his 10 POY's, his 10 money titles and his 8 Vardon Trophy wins (all in basically 13 years- discounting the last two) FAR more impressive. Not too mention his 2000 season...

All of sports? No.
[/quote]
I'm not talking about the most impressive accomplishment in sports history I'm talking about the most bizarre, the thing that makes no sense, the most strange and mind boggling thing in sports. woods 3 rebuilds in his prime is like roger clemens taking two yrs off at 25 to go learn how to pitch lefty, then coming back and winning 3 cy youngs lefty. or on a realistic level, michael jordan going to play baseball in his prime

[H.A. Kerr]

The analogies you're making now are like a duck trying to make a batch of butterscotch pudding.

[Cmega]

Tiger needs to go back to the way he was living. Either that or he probably will never become great again. He slept with many slutty women which means he absolutely loved the dirty sex he was getting. You know the type of girl you can do whatever you like with( we all love them regardless). He should have never been married. He is the alpha male and the alpha male gets what he wants usually. As long as he wasn't hurting anybody who cares. But he was married and he did hurt people. Including his alpha male mindset. The ambien might have helped his game. Maybe he didn't sleep well and did need it. Whatever he was doing prior to the crash is exactly what he needs to go do now. Now that he's divorced he should call up Jordan & Barkely and go tear it up. Just use a condom. Release the beast!!!!!

[farmer]

One of my friends has gone so far as to suggest he remarry so he could have the excitement of cheating. Another 100 mil might be too much to risk., though.

[PGArox]

[quote name='Cmega' timestamp='1330209579' post='4375947']
Whatever he was doing prior to the crash is exactly what he needs to go do now. Now that he's divorced he should call up Jordan & Barkely and go tear it up. Just use a condom. Release the beast!!!!!
[/quote]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if someone like Feherty asked Tiger this with a deadpan face?

[1puttwoods]

So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?

[jons1]

Tiger has always been a head case. In the first part of his career, that was to his advantage. Now, it appears it's too his disadvantage. His own self belief system that made him so great has proven to make him almost too stubborn for his own good imo. It's a tremendous asset, but it can be a weakness when misused. Also, it doesn't help he putts like garbage now....

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1330275507' post='4379953']
So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?
[/quote]


Horses for courses and teachers for students. Please see my previous post.
Foley, with the exception of his wedge teachings, is a compotent teacher. With the right person, he and his student could have great success. But he is also very mechanical and very much about positions, not feel.

How do you think Seve would do with Foley as a coach? Probably about the same as Woods.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1330275507' post='4379953']
So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?
[/quote]

+1.

If we look at ballstriking, Tiger seems to be having a tough time with distance control.

I think yesterday, I heard them say that TW had the longest drive of the week on a particular hole, like 360 yards so let's not forget a healthy Tiger is the best athlete on tour with as fast a swing as anyone.

I think Tiger is having a problem with feeling comfortable releasing fully with all his clubs including his putter.

Kind of like if you chip with a very round motion and clip the ball right before you release left, you are pleasantly surprised the ball goes straight.

Probably tought to get used to for someone who has released "down the target line" for so long.

He'll get there.

[Vindog]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1330359556' post='4387779']
[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1330275507' post='4379953']
So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?
[/quote]

I think yesterday, I heard them say that TW had the longest drive of the week on a particular hole, like 360 yards [b]so let's not forget a healthy Tiger is the best athlete on tour[/b] with as fast a swing as anyone.


[/quote]

10, even 5 years ago, this is true. Those lines are a little blurry right now. Stiil a great athlete, but I'm not sure if he's the best athlete anymore.

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330359875' post='4387821']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1330359556' post='4387779']
[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1330275507' post='4379953']
So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?
[/quote]

I think yesterday, I heard them say that TW had the longest drive of the week on a particular hole, like 360 yards [b]so let's not forget a healthy Tiger is the best athlete on tour[/b] with as fast a swing as anyone.


[/quote]

10, even 5 years ago, this is true. Those lines are a little blurry right now. Still a great athlete, but I'm not sure if he's the best athlete anymore.
[/quote]
Well you beat me to it.
The bolded above is such a completely delusional statement it probably doesn't merit a response but it does deserve to be highlighted for the simple fact that it perfectly illustrates the blurred reality some live in.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330368571' post='4388975']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330359875' post='4387821']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1330359556' post='4387779']
[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1330275507' post='4379953']
So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?
[/quote]

I think yesterday, I heard them say that TW had the longest drive of the week on a particular hole, like 360 yards [b]so let's not forget a healthy Tiger is the best athlete on tour[/b] with as fast a swing as anyone.


[/quote]

10, even 5 years ago, this is true. Those lines are a little blurry right now. Still a great athlete, but I'm not sure if he's the best athlete anymore.
[/quote]
Well you beat me to it.
The bolded above is such a completely delusional statement it probably doesn't merit a response but it does deserve to be highlighted for the simple fact that it perfectly illustrates the blurred reality some live in.
[/quote]

Who is a better athlete?

Rory? Ricky?

Good athletes...for guys their size, but not in Tiger's league.

Signed,

Walter Mitty

[gators78]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1330369263' post='4389095']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330368571' post='4388975']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330359875' post='4387821']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1330359556' post='4387779']
[quote name='1puttwoods' timestamp='1330275507' post='4379953']
So is Foley just a fraud with Tiger and he is a miracle worker with Hunter Mahan?
[/quote]

I think yesterday, I heard them say that TW had the longest drive of the week on a particular hole, like 360 yards [b]so let's not forget a healthy Tiger is the best athlete on tour[/b] with as fast a swing as anyone.


[/quote]

10, even 5 years ago, this is true. Those lines are a little blurry right now. Still a great athlete, but I'm not sure if he's the best athlete anymore.
[/quote]
Well you beat me to it.
The bolded above is such a completely delusional statement it probably doesn't merit a response but it does deserve to be highlighted for the simple fact that it perfectly illustrates the blurred reality some live in.
[/quote]

Who is a better athlete?

Rory? Ricky?

Good athletes...for guys their size, but not in Tiger's league.

Signed,

Walter Mitty
[/quote]

Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak

[bscinstnct]

[b][/quote]

Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak
[/quote]

[/b]Woodland, DJ are top athletes for golfers and I'll admit probably better overall than Tiger with youth and exposure to other sports on their side.

But who knows how to quantify the combination of speed, balance and eye hand coordination?

My original point was that I'll tend to see posts on Tiger now being a short hitter and ready for the old age home.

He hit the longest drive on a hole last week, over 360 (obviously with roll out) but nonetheless, in a field of young bombers, he was the longest drive of the week.

So, there you go...