Our legacy

[profsmitty]

As those of us who lived at least part of our lives in the persimmon/blade era of golf pass from the scene, what's the most we can hope for. I'm afraid that whatever the "next new thing" in golf will be (and there will be a next new thing), it won't be a return to the beauty of a persimmon wood or the true blade iron.

 

What is the best we can hope for? I am encouraged that there does seem to be a very slight "renaissance" of modern blade sets by almost every major club manufacturer. The Cleveland "persimmon-look-alike" is still a 460cc monster. It's probably better than nothing but only a little better than nothing.

 

Personally, I hope that if golf's cognoscenti have turned their collective backs on persimmon as a viable material for playable clubs, maybe the art community will discover what many of us have long known. There is simply nothing more beautiful than a skillfully crafted persimmon head. If our children can't be expected to hold the same love we have for wood on the course, maybe they will learn to value it as sculpture. Maybe these incredible examples of golf's past will be reclaimed from Grandpa's golf bag and put on the shelf with the other valued examples of the finest things that older generations ever produced.

 

What's your hope for our passion?

[Sean2]

I'm 57. Progressive is inevitable and there is no going back. Yes, the clubs you mention are beautiful, but no OEM will mass produce them (yes, there are those who still play them, and there are a few tournaments around the country that feature those clubs), but I think their day is done.

[Johnny Hack]

I too am almost (December) 57 and I have been involved in the "Golf Business" in one form or another for 30+ years. I remember when I worked for Roger Dunns Golf Shop in Santa Ana and was called and told I needed to work on my day off because there was a "New Driver" being released and we would have an allotment of only 50 clubs, and then would be taking orders most of that day so it was all hands on deck for the launch of this new product.

When I asked about the product and was told it was from a relatively new company and would sell for $250.00 each I thought that they were out of their minds, but low and behold, we sold out of our allotment within 30 minutes and took orders for almost the next four hours straight. The name of that Company and the New Driver was Callaway Golf and the Driver was called the "Big Bertha" and it had a graphite shaft and an oversized head (oversize for its day) . I remember the trade ins people were bringing in Persimmons from Macgregor, Wilson, Pena, Kenneth Smith, Hogan, Taylormade Tour Burners and Pittsburgh Persimmons, just to name a few. I saw it as the begining of the end of the "Persimmon Era" as the durability as well as the ability to place weight distribution such that the effective sweet spot of a driver was leaps and bounds above those it had follwed.

I will admit that for me the allure of such technological advances held a great deal interest as I was at the time trying to play some competative golf on what was then called the "Golden State Tour" and thus was looking for all the advantages I could find. But throughout the production cycles of all the new equipment that was coming out (Metal Club Heads, Titanium Clubheads, Composite Clubheads, Cavity Back Irons) they never seemed to give me the satisfaction both a well struck forged iron or persimmon driver. The way that a beautiful forging or well crafted piece of persimmon looked and felt at impact was just something that I am afraid this younger generation will never know, and the sound of a persimmon driver at impact, well, those of you who have and do still play them know it is hard to explain, it must be experienced.

While it is becoming harder to find a quality, playable piece of persimmon, I only can hope that those who have not experienced "Golf as it was played" by our generation, will take an interest in equipment history and put themselves together a Vintage set of Woods and Blades and experience it for what it is, The Joy of a well (purely) struck shot with the equipment of our generation, that can only be explained to the brain by the feedback from the hands and eyes.

[profsmitty]

Johnny, you are a man with whom I would be happy to play a round of golf. I remember a quote I heard once about forged blades that could apply to any vintage club - "You feel a well struck shot with your hands, up your arms, and into your soul". I wish I knew the author but I don't. I wish it was me but its not. But oh my, it is truth as I know it anyway.

Thanks for a very well written post. A rare commodity these days,

BTW - I was looking for the author of the quote I mentioned above and for some reason this one popped up - I guess because I needed to read it, for many reasons. It doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about but here it is.

Put your eyes on Bobby Jones... Look at his practice swing, almost like he's searchin for something... Then he finds it... Watch how he settle hisself right into th emiddle of it, feel that focus... He got a lot of shots he could choose from... Duffs and tops and skulls, there's only ONE shot that's in perfect harmony with the feild... One shot that's his, authentic shot, and that shot is gonna choose him... There's a perfect shot out there tryin' to find each and every one of us... All we got to do is get ourselves out of its way, to let it choose us... Can't see that flag as some dragon you got to slay... You got to look with soft eyes... See the place where the tides and the seasons and the turnin' of the Earth, all come together... where everything that is, becomes one... You got to seek that place with your soul Junuh... Seek it with your hands don't think about it... Feel it... Your hands is wiser than your head ever gonna be... Now I can't take you there Junuh... Just hopes I can help you find a way... Just you... that ball... that flag... and all you are...

The link:[/background][/size][/font][/color]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0146984/quotes?qt=qt0208967

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Johnny Hack' timestamp='1349927021' post='5779439']
...I only can hope that those who have not experienced "Golf as it was played" by our generation, will take an interest in equipment history and put themselves together a Vintage set of Woods and Blades and experience it for what it is,
[/quote]

That more or less describes me.

While I am 49 years old, I did not start playing golf until the Titanium age. My first set of golf clubs was purchased in fall of 1998, typical beginner set found at sporting goods stores.

Within a couple years, I was already trying blades. A couple years after that, I was starting to investigate playing persimmons, having found a Louisville Smart Driver at a local used shop. I really enjoy playing the old school stuff (haven't quite graduated to hickories).

For the last 12 seasons, with the exception of a year long stretch playing Eye 2+ that started last fall, I've been playing blades. My "regular" putter is a heel shafted blade. I have a considerably greater amount of fun playing these clubs than I do CB irons.

Interestingly, I also score better with them.

My persimmon use is a bit different. I regularly play persimmons, with at least as much enjoyment. Because I don't feel comfortable trying to reshaft my persimmons, and the ones I have are apparently too soft for my swing, I haven't been playing them as regularly. I must also admit I hear the siren call of the Ti driver on occasion.

That being said, I would love to go "all wood, all the time," and have been working toward that goal.

Unfortunately, I've noticed I am something of an aberration among those who've entered the golf world around the same time as I have. Most don't care about the traditions of the game, how fun it is to play the older clubs, etc. Not just the average, 100 to 110 shooting, golf public, but even more accomplished players. Everyone is chasing the new toys.

One can only try.

[Johnny Hack]

Smith5606, I would like to say thanks for the comments on my post in this thread, and to let you know that I was speaking from the heart about the joy of playing some rounds with the Classics from our "hey day". I have spent a great deal of my "employed life" in and around the Golf Industry because of my "Love of the Game" and (as anyone else that works in the industry can tell you) not to get rich!

Since you seem to be a brethren of that age, I hope that you either have or will in the near future, read some of the books that I am going to list.

Golf in the Kingdom written by Micheal Murphy
Lure of the Links edited by David Owens and Joan Bingham
The Greatest Golf Stories Ever Told edited by Jeff Silverman
A Passion for Golf edited by Schuyler Bishop
Duel in the Sun written by John Feinstein
Ben Hogan An American Life written by James Dodson
Hogan written by Curt Sampson
The Hole Truth-Inside Big Money Golf written by Tommy Bolt with Jimmy Mann
Follow the Wind written by Bo Links
The Match-The Day The Game of Golf Changed Forever written by Mark Frost
Arnie and Jack written by Ian Oconnor
The Dewsweepers written by James Dodson
The Legend of Bagger Vance written by Steven Pressfield
Getting Up and Down written by Ken Venturi

This should keep you both busy and entertained during the cold Kansas Winter.


NYJyzr,
I am happy to hear that someone else from our generation (even though you started late in life, to play this wonderful game) has also found the joy in playing the classics of our era. As far as others who have entered the game late that only show interest in playing the "Latest and Greatest" I say that is O K for them if it makes them happy. But you know the joy of playing the "Vintage of our Era" and although that is something that does not interest everyone, you at least will know the feeling of that well struck Forged Blade and Persimmon of our generation, and it is as I have said something special, so treasure the experience.

As far as the shafts in your Persimmon Woods go, I would bet that if you contacted Tad Moore known as "Majic" on this site, he would either do the work you need done or likely he knows someone that he would recomend to do the work you need done, as he is an outstanding Golf Club Designer and Manufacturer and is well known and respected in the industry.

Fairways and Greens my friends!

[rtv]

I'm 32 and I've golfed for about five years. I discovered persimmon late last season and blades a little before that. I've amassed a small collection of woods and refinished a bunch of them over the winter. This season I've played all but about three of my rounds with persimmons. So far I've managed convert one friend over to classic golf, but donated some refinished drivers to five more of my friends. Hopefully they'll see the light sooner or later.

The course I play at didn't even exist in the persimmon age. The wooden clubs get a fair share of attention and people are curious and interested in hitting a shot or two with them, but few are willing drop their 48" crutches and training wheels.

The hickory movement seems to have a decent amount of lift under their wings. Sucks that the so called classic golf - steel and persimmon - doesn't have close to that kind of momentum.

[Johnny Hack]

Well after reading this thread today, I was further inspired and went to the driving range late this afternoon for a Classic Blades session.
Took my 1972 Wlson Staff Buttonback Blades(2-PW), my 1979 Dunlop Maxfli Australian Blades (2-PW), and my recently aquired MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfield 20th Anniversary Blades (2-SW), my staff bag weighed a ton with all 3 sets in it, but what a blast it was.
Had alot of the folks that were on the range coming up asking me what I was hitting, why I was hitting them, and if I played them as my Gamers. After explaining that I was there for the pure joy of hitting the classics and that I do occasionally play with them, I even let a few of the folks that had decent swings hit a few just so they could experience them.
Then while a small group of them were standing around looking at the clubs I had brought out, I went over to the car and brought out my Cleveland Classics AL44 Oil Hardend Persimmon Driver, you should have seen their faces when I pulled off the headcover and teed a couple up. The questions ranged from "Is that a five wood, its so tiny" to "How the hell can you hit that thing that well"
Since I currently game Mizzy MP52's it was great to compare distance and feel of the "Classics" to the new generation forged irons,something that I hope everyone here gets a chance to do one day.


Edited for spelling

[Woodrow]

I remember and have played many of the clubs mentioned. One thing is certain - there are more "over the top" moves and duck hooks with the graphite shafted - 460cc bombs. Players don't realize they are simply too light. They can't feel the clubhead in their swing - so they take a wrench - and one of 4 screw in plug weights and try to "create' a club that will give a different response when applied to the ball. Often in failure.

I play my Cleveland Persimmon Driver - love the feel - a regular steel shaft - measuring 43 inches (not 46") and naturally draw the ball and keep it in play. Granted it's not 260 yds every time - but the ball is in play - and I play an Accuform blade from the mid 80's - small heads but terrific feed back and feel. I don't think we'll ever seen Persimmon or laminate drivers and woods again - but the "feel" players will always play them. Feel players like ourselves will always know what went wrong on a particular shot because our equipment remains static - it does not change - and we can't change anything in the parking lot. "It's not the equipment, it's the swing" - the adage has never been more true than today. I love wood clubs !

[Nspiel58]

Though I play only forged irons when I do get out, which is rarely (only 6, 9 hole rounds and 18 in a Senior tournament this year), I've been a bit too dependent on my Taylormade R7 and Hogan Big Ben when I've played the last 4 years. I pretty well quit playing golf for 15 years before getting back into it in 2009. I love persimmon woods, always have, being 54, but I finally made the decision to use a full set of Hogan persimmons the last time I went out. I played with two other guys I didn't know, but they said nothing about the woods, while playing their big Callaway and Ping drivers and offset cavity back irons. It wasn't until the 7th hole, where my drive ended up to the left of the green and over 270 yards, that one of the guys said, "I've never seen anyone play their second shot from there. Then on 9, a par 5, 464 yd hole from the whites, I had concerns about the fairway bunkers sitting 240 yards away. My tee shot sailed over the right hand bunker and amazingly stopped 40 yards clear. It was my longest, straightest drive ever on that hole, whereas I generally fade off into the right rough or out-of-bounds. My 4 wood approach landed on the green, but I 3 putted for par, disappointingly. What I've taken from this experience is that I shall no longer have any worries about playing my persimmon woods. They are quite satisfactorily long and even more accurate then my 46" 460s. I think it has something to do with their heavier weight as well.

[guisician]

[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350189277' post='5791519']
Though I play only forged irons when I do get out, which is rarely (only 6, 9 hole rounds and 18 in a Senior tournament this year), I've been a bit too dependent on my Taylormade R7 and Hogan Big Ben when I've played the last 4 years. I pretty well quit playing golf for 15 years before getting back into it in 2009. I love persimmon woods, always have, being 54, but I finally made the decision to use a full set of Hogan persimmons the last time I went out. I played with two other guys I didn't know, but they said nothing about the woods, while playing their big Callaway and Ping drivers and offset cavity back irons. It wasn't until the 7th hole, where my drive ended up to the left of the green and over 270 yards, that one of the guys said, "I've never seen anyone play their second shot from there. Then on 9, a par 5, 464 yd hole from the whites, I had concerns about the fairway bunkers sitting 240 yards away. My tee shot sailed over the right hand bunker and amazingly stopped 40 yards clear. It was my longest, straightest drive ever on that hole, whereas I generally fade off into the right rough or out-of-bounds. My 4 wood approach landed on the green, but I 3 putted for par, disappointingly. What I've taken from this experience is that I shall no longer have any worries about playing my persimmon woods. They are quite satisfactorily long and even more accurate then my 46" 460s. I think it has something to do with their heavier weight as well.
[/quote]

Nspiel,

THAT is a beautiful bag of sticks!

[Johnny Hack]

[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350189277' post='5791519']
Though I play only forged irons when I do get out, which is rarely (only 6, 9 hole rounds and 18 in a Senior tournament this year), I've been a bit too dependent on my Taylormade R7 and Hogan Big Ben when I've played the last 4 years. I pretty well quit playing golf for 15 years before getting back into it in 2009. I love persimmon woods, always have, being 54, but I finally made the decision to use a full set of Hogan persimmons the last time I went out. I played with two other guys I didn't know, but they said nothing about the woods, while playing their big Callaway and Ping drivers and offset cavity back irons. It wasn't until the 7th hole, where my drive ended up to the left of the green and over 270 yards, that one of the guys said, "I've never seen anyone play their second shot from there. Then on 9, a par 5, 464 yd hole from the whites, I had concerns about the fairway bunkers sitting 240 yards away. My tee shot sailed over the right hand bunker and amazingly stopped 40 yards clear. It was my longest, straightest drive ever on that hole, whereas I generally fade off into the right rough or out-of-bounds. My 4 wood approach landed on the green, but I 3 putted for par, disappointingly. What I've taken from this experience is that I shall no longer have any worries about playing my persimmon woods. They are quite satisfactorily long and even more accurate then my 46" 460s. I think it has something to do with their heavier weight as well.
[/quote]

Glad to hear that the "Worries" of playing that beautiful bag of Classics you have is gone for you.
The fact that the guys you played with didnt say anything about your sticks just shows that "Old Technology" clubs you are playing goes unappreciated, and is misunderstood by so many golfers of this high tech era, which is such a shame. Continue to enjoy your "Classics" and golf as it was played by our generation.
I have decided that next year I am going to keep 2 handicaps myself using the same formula that the USGA uses, one with formy modern era clubs and one for my "Classics" to see what the difference will be. I will also keep 2 sets of stats ( Fairways hit,GIR, ect) to compare my performance with both as well.

[Nspiel58]

It'll be interesting to hear the results of your experiment Johnny.

[Johnny Hack]

[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350238888' post='5792815']
It'll be interesting to hear the results of your experiment Johnny.
[/quote]

I will be starting a thread and periodically posting my results after the first of the year. I too look forward to seeing the results Nspiel58.

[Woodrow]

[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350238888' post='5792815']
It'll be interesting to hear the results of your experiment Johnny.
[/quote]

Nspiel - nice to see someone from Canada. Interesting isn't it. When I played persimmon woods on my home course years ago I hit them long. My age has changed, but the course has not. Now players spray drives everywhere. It's interesting because many are looking for control with the new drivers and they are going towards a much heavier shaft in their drivers. If they can find graphite at around 110g a shaft they will play the heavier shaft. Why not just play steel ? I think persimmon drivers with steel shafts still give us hard running, boring types of tee shoots with a lot more control.

[cardoustie]

Johnny Hack

Look me up if you ever get to Toronto. Kindred spirit it seems, with scotch, classic clubs and also the books you listed. (I have read 85% of them)

It pains me that I sold my classic McGregor persimmon set when I needed cash 20 yrs ago. They were blond with aluminum inserts. 1.3.4.

This has inspired me to pull out my Powerbilt Thorougbred persimmon though and hammer a few at the range

I am just shy of 45 and do play the modern stuff. I do miss the feel of persimmons and pure blades. Put them together with the old liquid filled balata Maxfli HT's and you had a buttery thump running up the veins in your arms

I also miss the way I could curve those old balls. A big slice is near impossible now

I am just back from Scotland and now appreciate golf a whole lot more as it was originally played. Inventiveness was the key component. Getting close to pins is all about where you land it, your trajectory and the curvature you take on coming into the green

[teespoon]

I just walked 9. carrying 2 Hogan woods , 4 MacGregor MT Tourney blades, and a John Letters putter. At 72, I let foursomes and other Cart racers thru, and take rest breaks on benches by the tee boxes. This is how I started the game at 15 years old, and I call it GOLF!

Enjoy!

teespoon

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='teespoon' timestamp='1350493996' post='5807007']
I just walked 9. carrying 2 Hogan woods , 4 MacGregor MT Tourney blades, and a John Letters putter. At 72, I let foursomes and other Cart racers thru, and take rest breaks on benches by the tee boxes. This is how I started the game at 15 years old, and I call it GOLF!

Enjoy!

teespoon
[/quote]

Did you have your PW or your 9 iron? .. First two set of clubs that I had didn't have PW's in the set... . Ain't it funny how you learned to open up your irons in order to duplicate another that you don't have?

p.s. When I was young [s][u]er[/u][/s], I always wanted a set of those MacG MT Tourney blades...Bad to the Bone..They Were...

[teespoon]

[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350497782' post='5807371']
[quote name='teespoon' timestamp='1350493996' post='5807007']
I just walked 9. carrying 2 Hogan woods , 4 MacGregor MT Tourney blades, and a John Letters putter. At 72, I let foursomes and other Cart racers thru, and take rest breaks on benches by the tee boxes. This is how I started the game at 15 years old, and I call it GOLF!

Enjoy!

teespoon
[/quote]

Did you have your PW or your 9 iron? .. First two set of clubs that I had didn't have PW's in the set... . Ain't it funny how you learned to open up your irons in order to duplicate another that you don't have?

p.s. When I was young [s][u]er[/u][/s], I always wanted a set of those MacG MT Tourney blades...Bad to the Bone..They Were...
[/quote]

MR Par,
I carried the 3-5-7 and 9 irons. No PW! The old MT's are showing their age, but then So am I ...LOL

teespoon

[profsmitty]

Tee - I do the same as much as possible. After a while, I don't even think about the clubs I don't have. It's just like being a ten year old with my first set of clubs all over again. I wish everyone would have this experience at least once. I think they'd find that it is a fun way to play a round of golf.

[teespoon]

Wife bought me a set of Spalding Top Flite Pro blades today, (the ones with the bird on ball logo), at the local Goodwill. $20, and they are in excellent condition. Grips are original and dry rotted, so add the cost of new grips, and I will play these beauties as well .. Beautiful forgings.

teespoon

[teespoon]

[quote name='smith5606' timestamp='1350569981' post='5811245']
Tee - I do the same as much as possible. After a while, I don't even think about the clubs I don't have. It's just like being a ten year old with my first set of clubs all over again. I wish everyone would have this experience at least once. I think they'd find that it is a fun way to play a round of golf.
[/quote]

SO True! Enjoy Smith! It's a Great game.

teespoon

[stage1350]

I had John (Persimmonpal) redo a complete set of Tommy Armour 986 Tour persimmons and reshaft them with DGSL X-100. They pair up really well to my 986 blades with DG Tour X7 shafts. It gives me the chance to play a set of classics with shafts that are better suited to my swing than plain old DG S300.

I need to get them out on the course before it gets too cold.

[profsmitty]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1350690462' post='5818955']
I had John (Persimmonpal) redo a complete set of Tommy Armour 986 Tour persimmons and reshaft them with DGSL X-100. They pair up really well to my 986 blades with DG Tour X7 shafts. It gives me the chance to play a set of classics with shafts that are better suited to my swing than plain old DG S300.

I need to get them out on the course before it gets too cold.
[/quote]
I hate the thought of it getting too cold for golf. But it does. Hit the heck out of them, Stage.

[Nspiel58]

[quote name='Woodrow' timestamp='1350491546' post='5806825']
[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350238888' post='5792815']
It'll be interesting to hear the results of your experiment Johnny.
[/quote]

Nspiel - nice to see someone from Canada. Interesting isn't it. When I played persimmon woods on my home course years ago I hit them long. My age has changed, but the course has not. Now players spray drives everywhere. It's interesting because many are looking for control with the new drivers and they are going towards a much heavier shaft in their drivers. If they can find graphite at around 110g a shaft they will play the heavier shaft. Why not just play steel ? I think persimmon drivers with steel shafts still give us hard running, boring types of tee shoots with a lot more control.
[/quote]

Hey Woodrow. Great comments and observations from a fellow Canadian/Saskatchewanian (Go Riders!) Did you look at my post having to do with some people not needing graphite shafts? That video is just the best and such a clear indication of the best way to play.

[profsmitty]

[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1351215104' post='5847439']
[quote name='Woodrow' timestamp='1350491546' post='5806825']
[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350238888' post='5792815']
It'll be interesting to hear the results of your experiment Johnny.
[/quote]

Nspiel - nice to see someone from Canada. Interesting isn't it. When I played persimmon woods on my home course years ago I hit them long. My age has changed, but the course has not. Now players spray drives everywhere. It's interesting because many are looking for control with the new drivers and they are going towards a much heavier shaft in their drivers. If they can find graphite at around 110g a shaft they will play the heavier shaft. Why not just play steel ? I think persimmon drivers with steel shafts still give us hard running, boring types of tee shoots with a lot more control.
[/quote]

Hey Woodrow. Great comments and observations from a fellow Canadian/Saskatchewanian (Go Riders!) Did you look at my post having to do with some people not needing graphite shafts? [i]That video is just the best and such a clear indication of the best way to play[/i].
[/quote]
Not to but in, but can you share the link to the video you mention in your post?

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='teespoon' timestamp='1350552367' post='5810523']
[quote name='MrParr1Noid' timestamp='1350497782' post='5807371']
[quote name='teespoon' timestamp='1350493996' post='5807007']
I just walked 9. carrying 2 Hogan woods , 4 MacGregor MT Tourney blades, and a John Letters putter. At 72, I let foursomes and other Cart racers thru, and take rest breaks on benches by the tee boxes. This is how I started the game at 15 years old, and I call it GOLF!

Enjoy!

teespoon
[/quote]

Did you have your PW or your 9 iron? .. First two set of clubs that I had didn't have PW's in the set... . Ain't it funny how you learned to open up your irons in order to duplicate another that you don't have?

p.s. When I was young [s][u]er[/u][/s], I always wanted a set of those MacG MT Tourney blades...Bad to the Bone..They Were...
[/quote]

MR Par,
I carried the 3-5-7 and 9 irons. No PW! The old MT's are showing their age, but then So am I ...LOL

teespoon
[/quote]

Truth be told, I have not ever found a pitching wedge that sets up right for me. It just seems impossible to ever put myself in the proper position for the darn thing to look right. It must be me, cause I don't hear others complaining about this...

[Nspiel58]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1351216862' post='5847559']
[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1351215104' post='5847439']
[quote name='Woodrow' timestamp='1350491546' post='5806825']
[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1350238888' post='5792815']
It'll be interesting to hear the results of your experiment Johnny.
[/quote]

Nspiel - nice to see someone from Canada. Interesting isn't it. When I played persimmon woods on my home course years ago I hit them long. My age has changed, but the course has not. Now players spray drives everywhere. It's interesting because many are looking for control with the new drivers and they are going towards a much heavier shaft in their drivers. If they can find graphite at around 110g a shaft they will play the heavier shaft. Why not just play steel ? I think persimmon drivers with steel shafts still give us hard running, boring types of tee shoots with a lot more control.
[/quote]

Hey Woodrow. Great comments and observations from a fellow Canadian/Saskatchewanian (Go Riders!) Did you look at my post having to do with some people not needing graphite shafts? [i]That video is just the best and such a clear indication of the best way to play[/i].
[/quote]
Not to but in, but can you share the link to the video you mention in your post?
[/quote]

Here - [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfhOHIbdrSk&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfhOHIbdrSk&feature=player_embedded[/url]

[stage1350]

While I hate to use a car anology due to their overuse by a thumbring wearing moron on another site, I see a lot of parallels between the musclecar age and modern golf. Go back to the late 70s and early 80s, the availability of good new equipment was minimal. People went back to the classics of the 50s and 60s to get both the performance and craftsmanship that they desired.

With the introduction of technology, (titanium, graphite, forged cavities, the solid core urethane ball) the OEMs finally started creating equipment as good or better than what we had before. Now, the use of these classics was rendered to a nostalgic few. As time goes on, the cost of ownership increases (lack of distance/increase in gas prices) and the availability of spare parts becomes an issue if there is an accident and something breaks.

I think the classic club market will split like the old car market did. You will still have the "purist" that will want the club to be 100% correct down to the slick grip. The majority of these will not get played, as the grip and integrity of the wood will always be a question. If you continue to play the irons, the wear to the chrome will continue to erode. You'll have the modifier, who takes classic heads and is wiling to make them playable with newer grips and shafts. They don't care if a club is rechromed or refinished. It's okay if a neck crack is repaired or a new insert has been installed. There is room for both in clubs and cars alike.

The other frightening parallel is technology. For years, the computer industry maintained backward compatability with old equipment. Today, they are willing to render old tech obsolete in the name of "progress." You also see this with the elimination of analog broadcasting. Will golf courses continue to favor the distance game enough that it will finally render persimmon obsolete?

I got to play my modified set of persimmons and blades last week. We had 20-25mph winds the whole day, so flighting the ball was at a premium. Due to crosswinds, I only hit 7/14 fairways. However, poor tee shots only cost me 5 strokes. The rest of my bad scoring was short game and putting. My distance wasrougly the same on the irons, but I lost about 5-10% of the distance on my woods compared to my graphite shafted modern set. While the driver is an obvious disadvantage, what was a shocker is the minimal difference in the fairways, especially regarding face height. See photos:

[attachment=1401659:Superdeep_v_986_1.JPG][attachment=1401661:Superdeep_v_986_2.JPG]

With drivers, it's not even close compared to my TM Superdeep. That said, concentrating on ballstriking with the deep face persimmon yielded decent results and great feel. But you are severely punished if you miss one. Now, look at the minimal differences in overall size and face height of my persimmon 3W compared to my 906F2 3W:

[attachment=1401675:906F2_v_986_1.JPG][attachment=1401655:906F2_v_986_2.JPG]

I could see a lot of in-betweeners carrying persimmon fairways and blades but using a modern driver to offset the obvious technology gains off the tee. The rest of the clubs, being struck for a specific target rather than maximum distance, can be old classics and the enjoyment of the game's heritage and feel can be maintained.

[Johnny Hack]

Well said Stage1350.
Today I had the itch to play a cross of technology exactly as you have stated above. My set up for today was as follows
.
Titleist 983K Driver with a UST ProForce V2 Stiff shaft
Wilson Staff Persimmon 4 Wood
2-PW 1978 Dunlop Australian Blades
SW- Original Cleveland 588 56*
Putter- Cleveland Classic Corey Pavin Centennial US Open Winner Blade

Played at Cypresswood Golf Club-Cypress Course
6908 Yards-72.8 Rating-Slope 127
I shot 39-37 = 76 and had an absolute blast playing.

I took the Titleist driver with me due to the fact that we played the back tees and as I have gotten older my distance off the tee is not what it used to be, so I wanted a little distance help. The guys I played with were still astounded that all the rest of my clubs were "Vintage" and I played pretty well with them since they havent seen me play with them before. It may have peeked the interest of a couple of them to look into playing some "Classic" from their generation. And as you know its about enjoying your round of golf and the feeling of solidly striking a Persimmon wood or Old School blade as much as it is about the score since none of us depend on our scores to put food on our tables or roofs over our heads.