Vokey SM5 wedges

[shankman92]

what is more important bounce or sole grind?

Im getting 52 56 60 but usually only use my 52 and 56 for full shots and 60 for anything inside 80 yards. 52 would be 125-110 56 110-90 and 60 90 in.

Im thinking F grind for the 52 and 56 and 60 K or S grind

[KPH808]

[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382315324' post='8031903']
what is more important bounce or sole grind?

Im getting 52 56 60 but usually only use my 52 and 56 for full shots and 60 for anything inside 80 yards. 52 would be 125-110 56 110-90 and 60 90 in.

Im thinking F grind for the 52 and 56 and 60 K or S grind
[/quote]

Bounce is def more important

[tdogg21]

[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382315324' post='8031903']
what is more important bounce or sole grind?

Im getting 52 56 60 but usually only use my 52 and 56 for full shots and 60 for anything inside 80 yards. 52 would be 125-110 56 110-90 and 60 90 in.

Im thinking F grind for the 52 and 56 and 60 K or S grind
[/quote]

by far bounce. not that the grind isn't important, and honestly to a point, they will work together. but Voke always seems to suggest taking more bounce than you think you need.

[shankman92]

I have a pretty neutral swing- smallish divot and play in all kinds of conditions

should I get 52 8 or 52 12? What about the 56? Im positive I want F in both of these as they are mostly full shot clubs

[tdogg21]

[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382401942' post='8037359']
I have a pretty neutral swing- smallish divot and play in all kinds of conditions

should I get 52 8 or 52 12? What about the 56? Im positive I want F in both of these as they are mostly full shot clubs
[/quote]

i am the same as you and always heard to take more bounce. but i was afraid of getting too much bounce for my swing. so i went to a Titleist fitting day and tried a variety of wedges. i found i almost always went back to the wedge with slightly more bounce. so i would go with the 52 12.

[shankman92]

[quote name='tdogg21' timestamp='1382542623' post='8045811']
[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382401942' post='8037359']
I have a pretty neutral swing- smallish divot and play in all kinds of conditions

should I get 52 8 or 52 12? What about the 56? Im positive I want F in both of these as they are mostly full shot clubs
[/quote]

i am the same as you and always heard to take more bounce. but i was afraid of getting too much bounce for my swing. so i went to a Titleist fitting day and tried a variety of wedges. i found i almost always went back to the wedge with slightly more bounce. so i would go with the 52 12.
[/quote]

thanks!

Thats what I was thinking as well.

Where is the specs sheet for the new wedges? It was up earlier but can't find it. Want to see the different options / finishes / grinds.

Thanks!

[knock it close]

[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382576615' post='8048849']
[quote name='tdogg21' timestamp='1382542623' post='8045811']
[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382401942' post='8037359']
I have a pretty neutral swing- smallish divot and play in all kinds of conditions

should I get 52 8 or 52 12? What about the 56? Im positive I want F in both of these as they are mostly full shot clubs
[/quote]

i am the same as you and always heard to take more bounce. but i was afraid of getting too much bounce for my swing. so i went to a Titleist fitting day and tried a variety of wedges. i found i almost always went back to the wedge with slightly more bounce. so i would go with the 52 12.
[/quote]

thanks!

Thats what I was thinking as well.

Where is the specs sheet for the new wedges? It was up earlier but can't find it. Want to see the different options / finishes / grinds.

Thanks!
[/quote]There is the link posted to the titleist sight, however titleist has removed there side of it as I believe it was not yet finalized. I believe someone posted the original breakdown on page 5 of this post.

[Shanktastic]

Love the gold nickel finish and the refined stamping!!

[notlonuf]

[quote name='Arpeggi' timestamp='1382119457' post='8022399']
Shame about the oil can not being an option for the sm5
[/quote]

+1 i love my oil can's. guess i'll have to see what the gold nickel looks like. i wonder if any of the finishes will rust like the oil cans?

[PingGuru]

[quote name='notlonuf' timestamp='1382651761' post='8053163']

+1 i love my oil can's. guess i'll have to see what the gold nickel looks like. i wonder if any of the finishes will rust like the oil cans?
[/quote]
Raw black will

[shankman92]

can't find the specs anywhere - they must have taken it down.

[Oakey90]

[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382657337' post='8053699']
can't find the specs anywhere - they must have taken it down.
[/quote]

There's a post in another page from WRX saying that Titleist asked them to remove it.

I'm sure it will be available closer to release.

[JC671]

[quote name='tdogg21' timestamp='1382542623' post='8045811']
[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382401942' post='8037359']
I have a pretty neutral swing- smallish divot and play in all kinds of conditions

should I get 52 8 or 52 12? What about the 56? Im positive I want F in both of these as they are mostly full shot clubs
[/quote]

i am the same as you and always heard to take more bounce. but i was afraid of getting too much bounce for my swing. so i went to a Titleist fitting day and tried a variety of wedges. i found i almost always went back to the wedge with slightly more bounce. so i would go with the 52 12.
[/quote]

Or you could go with the 54 12 and have it bent to a 52 10. Be right in the middle.

[alwaysatrueswinger]

[quote name='timbo08' timestamp='1381979944' post='8014023']
Looks great! Sad they aren't forged but really happy about the black ox options in lefty!
[/quote]
SM5 is not forged? Are you kidding me? I havent read much about this new wedge. I have been thinking that I wait until I can try them. But if they are not forged, forget it. A wedge has to be forged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shankman92]

[quote name='alwaysatrueswinger' timestamp='1382753464' post='8059347']
[quote name='timbo08' timestamp='1381979944' post='8014023']
Looks great! Sad they aren't forged but really happy about the black ox options in lefty!

[/quote]
SM5 is not forged? Are you kidding me? I havent read much about this new wedge. I have been thinking that I wait until I can try them. But if they are not forged, forget it. A wedge has to be forged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

why?

[boxerjoe2011]

[quote name='shankman92' timestamp='1382753827' post='8059373']
[quote name='alwaysatrueswinger' timestamp='1382753464' post='8059347']
[quote name='timbo08' timestamp='1381979944' post='8014023']
Looks great! Sad they aren't forged but really happy about the black ox options in lefty!

[/quote]
SM5 is not forged? Are you kidding me? I havent read much about this new wedge. I have been thinking that I wait until I can try them. But if they are not forged, forget it. A wedge has to be forged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

why?
[/quote]

The difference is so marginal. Don't get me wrong, I would love if they were forged, but you aren't swinging them hard enough for them to feel harsh on impact. They feel plenty soft.

[armbreaker22]

I'm adding this as it has not been talked about. These wedges allegedly are going to have "progressive grooves" meaning that the grooves will be more aggressive as the loft increases.

[TitleistHOG]

Won't the raw black wear off quickly, similar to the bottom of my black scotty leaving a raw look?

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='alwaysatrueswinger' timestamp='1382753464' post='8059347']
[quote name='timbo08' timestamp='1381979944' post='8014023']
Looks great! Sad they aren't forged but really happy about the black ox options in lefty!
[/quote]
SM5 is not forged? Are you kidding me? I havent read much about this new wedge. I have been thinking that I wait until I can try them. But if they are not forged, forget it. A wedge has to be forged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]Vokeys have always been cast....from a soft metal. Don't confuse softness with forged vs. cast.

[Geohans]

I traded my SM4s for new Mizuno T4s. I prefer the sound and "feel" of the Mizunos.

Forged or cast? I don't know how much of the difference is wrapped up in that.

My question, for someone with some industry experience: How much would it add to the cost of an SM4 to produce it using the same forging process as the MB/CB irons?

The Japanese market forgings are quite a bit more, but I suspect much of that is market conditions rather than production costs.

If a casting is $129 retail, how much would it add to forge it?

[robbie91]

[quote name='Geohans' timestamp='1382957890' post='8067741']
I traded my SM4s for new Mizuno T4s. I prefer the sound and "feel" of the Mizunos.

Forged or cast? I don't know how much of the difference is wrapped up in that.

My question, for someone with some industry experience: How much would it add to the cost of an SM4 to produce it using the same forging process as the MB/CB irons?

The Japanese market forgings are quite a bit more, but I suspect much of that is market conditions rather than production costs.

If a casting is $129 retail, how much would it add to forge it?
[/quote]

It's hard to say. If we're talking cost vs. retail then it has more to do with the companies bottom line then anything else. Vokey is charging $129 retail because they can not because the price of producing the clubs is expensive. They are charging you for the name and the design. So, I'm sure Vokey could forge wedges and charge a reasonable price but I doubt they would.

However, I think it's important to note that Vokey's have never been forged (except for a few Japan releases). So, it's not like they decided to stop forging the clubs to cut costs. It's also not like the tour offerings are forged... the tour guys get special grinds but they are using the same cast wedges as the average joe. I like forged clubs as much as the next guy but Vokeys have always worked well for me and I think they feel plenty soft.

[Hstead]

I can't believe so many Tour pro do not understand what they are giving up by playing cast wedges? You would think they would have the high demands that WRX members have and only play the most awesomest bestest forged wedge. What hacks. They probably can't even hit their 4 irons over 230 with a baby draw.

[johnstitch]

Cast from a soft metal? When? 2002? SM4s are rock hard. Hope the SM5s are softer and offer us a good ol' fashioned raw finish...

[knock it close]

[quote name='johnstitch' timestamp='1383269218' post='8086470']
Cast from a soft metal? When? 2002? SM4s are rock hard. Hope the SM5s are softer and offer us a good ol' fashioned raw finish...
[/quote]
If you want a raw wedge buy a oil can and stick it in a pitcher of coke, problem solved.

[knockdstiff]

I just wanted to post next to knock it close. We are internet forum username brothers.



Edit: OK now that I actually read something in the recent posts - does it really matter now that these wedges are 'cast' instead of forged when they are milled into shape? Do they cast and then mill the face?

As I understand it now, to make an SM4 wedge, you take a raw billet of steel, and cut away everything that doesn't look like a wedge (this is handled by a program at this point). There is hand grinding and other finishing after this.

If you make a 'forged' wedge, you take a raw billet of steel and use a very large machine (or a lot of your own sweat if you live in like 1600s Scotland) to smash it into the shape of a wedge, then do the same grinding and finishing.

I don't think these are 'cast' in the sense that they don't first melt the billets and pour it into a mold shaped like a wedge....on top of that, the billets themselves are 'cast' in some sense as well as you have to get the original metal you're working with in some kind of shape in the first place. Or is that totally wrong?

[pr1mo990]

[quote name='knockdstiff' timestamp='1383289942' post='8087332']
I just wanted to post next to knock it close. We are internet forum username brothers.



Edit: OK now that I actually read something in the recent posts - does it really matter now that these wedges are 'cast' instead of forged when they are milled into shape? Do they cast and then mill the face?

As I understand it now, to make an SM4 wedge, you take a raw billet of steel, and cut away everything that doesn't look like a wedge (this is handled by a program at this point). There is hand grinding and other finishing after this.

If you make a 'forged' wedge, you take a raw billet of steel and use a very large machine (or a lot of your own sweat if you live in like 1600s Scotland) to smash it into the shape of a wedge, then do the same grinding and finishing.

I don't think these are 'cast' in the sense that they don't first melt the billets and pour it into a mold shaped like a wedge....on top of that, the billets themselves are 'cast' in some sense as well as you have to get the original metal you're working with in some kind of shape in the first place. Or is that totally wrong?
[/quote]

There is no additional hand grinding to an SM4, it's just cast to a shape and finished. If they had to hand grind each one they'd cost like $350, and be called Hand Ground wedges (cuz they are). As far as the process of casting it goes though I'm clueless

[knock it close]

[quote name='knockdstiff' timestamp='1383289942' post='8087332']
I just wanted to post next to knock it close. We are internet forum username brothers.



Edit: OK now that I actually read something in the recent posts - does it really matter now that these wedges are 'cast' instead of forged when they are milled into shape? Do they cast and then mill the face?

As I understand it now, to make an SM4 wedge, you take a raw billet of steel, and cut away everything that doesn't look like a wedge (this is handled by a program at this point). There is hand grinding and other finishing after this.

If you make a 'forged' wedge, you take a raw billet of steel and use a very large machine (or a lot of your own sweat if you live in like 1600s Scotland) to smash it into the shape of a wedge, then do the same grinding and finishing.

I don't think these are 'cast' in the sense that they don't first melt the billets and pour it into a mold shaped like a wedge....on top of that, the billets themselves are 'cast' in some sense as well as you have to get the original metal you're working with in some kind of shape in the first place. Or is that totally wrong?
[/quote] Haha yes we are, and I personally agree with you that the fact that vokeys are cast and not forged is completely over blown (that is my personal opinion some may disagree). For me I would take the extensive loft, bounce and sole grinds vokey offers over any other of the forged US OEM product available

[ButterSwing]

having put both the mack daddy 2 (which is forged) as well as the titleist SM4 in the bag, I can daresay there is definitely a noticeable difference in the feel of forged vs cast. on a good crisp shot, the mack daddy 2 just has that nice buttery vibrations you feel that lets you know you're hitting a forged club, while the SM4 has a harder, more solid feel about it. nonetheless, the difference I believe is a matter of taste and personal preference with regards to the feel as performance wise I've noticed little separating them.

as knock it close mentioned above, grind options to me is a big difference separating the vokeys from the rest of the pack. forged or non-forged, the SM4s are solid wedges that gets the job done.

[knockdstiff]

[size=4]Vokey makes a point of saying their stuff is cast from mild carbon steel, for whatever that is worth.[/size]

[url="http://www.vokey.com/vokes-notebook/Faqs.aspx"]http://www.vokey.com...ebook/Faqs.aspx[/url]

This implies the steel is somewhere in the 1xxx grading range (e.g., 1018 or 1020) and therefore equivalent to what you'd find in forged clubs (at least from a chemistry standpoint), but I haven't seen them name an actual grade of steel in any of their marketing stuff.

[Geohans]

Knockit:

Generally, casting is pouring molten metal into a mold.

Forging involves heating a billet of steel, then pounding it into a shape.

These two processes each use steel that is quite different from the other. Well, almost always.

What you are describing is CNC milling from a billet-- if I understand correctly.

Cameron putters, and Larue uppers/lowers, are done that way.

I'd still love a rough estimate per club, assuming huge Vokey quantities, of the added cost of producing the same club through the forging process. More than five bucks? Fitty Bucks?