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What is the purpose of three piece Surlyn covered balls?

 LumpyPockets ·  
LumpyPocketsLumpyPockets Members  52WRX Points: 53Posts: 52 Bunkers
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If the cover is low spin why bother with a mantle layer? There seems to be quite a few three piece ionomer covered balls out there and I'm dying to know why.
Posted:
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Comments

  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members  2377WRX Points: 670Posts: 2,377 Platinum Tees
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    They are cheap.
    Posted:
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
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  • augustgolfaugustgolf Golf with dignity Coastal NCMembers  3968WRX Points: 282Posts: 3,968 Titanium Tees
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    BrianMcG wrote:
    <br />
    They are cheap.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    And, they were the answer to durability, BITD. <br />
    <br />
    When there were balata balls (and cheap Zippo balls, basically solid rubber) when the balata wasn't caught cleanly with the swing, hit maybe a little thin...the cover either cut through, or dented appreciably. While this didn't mean that you couldn't play the ball, it did definitely alter the flight and putting characteristics of the ball.<br />
    <br />
    Once Spalding created the Top-Flite - a surlyn covered ball with a solid mantle - the ball didn't cut when hit thin, it stayed rounder longer, tended to go further off the tee, but didn't spin nearly as much on approach shots. It was also much cheaper to produce.<br />
    <br />
    It still is today. <br />
    <br />
    There you have it! The reason surlyn covered balls exist.
    Posted:
    Pings from the beginning

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    or is it 1514...
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members  11798WRX Points: 1,601Posts: 11,798 Titanium Tees
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    I don't recall exactly how it went but in one of his interview videos Dean Snell made mention of a point in time where the available low-compression core materials were hard to make in a way that had produced sufficient ball speed so a mantle layer was sometimes used to boost that.<br />
    <br />
    Or something like that, I may be getting it wrong. But the implication was that modern 2pc low-compression balls can work fine without a mantle so the 3pc Surlyn designs aren't much used any more.
    Posted:
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • LumpyPocketsLumpyPockets Members  52WRX Points: 53Posts: 52 Bunkers
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    But why put a surlyn cover on a ball with a core and a mantle? It's like wiping before you drop a deuce. Higher price compared to a 2 piece surlyn and still no spin around the greens. Who would buy it?
    Posted:
    In the Sun Mountain Three.Five aka The Bag of Shame:

    Epic Flash 10.5
    HiBore XLS 2 Wood
    Epic 5w -1*
    Cleveland Launcher HB 4-S
    O Works #7
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members  11798WRX Points: 1,601Posts: 11,798 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #6
    <br />
    But why put a surlyn cover on a ball with a core and a mantle? It's like wiping before you drop a deuce. Higher price compared to a 2 piece surlyn and still no spin around the greens. Who would buy it?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think any much does buy it. That's why those types of ball are gradually disappearing from the market and have been over the last five or so years.
    Posted:
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • LumpyPocketsLumpyPockets Members  52WRX Points: 53Posts: 52 Bunkers
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    I see Bridgestone E6's played a ton. Waste of money right? Bridgestone feels that amateurs should play ionomer, not urethane.
    Posted:
    In the Sun Mountain Three.Five aka The Bag of Shame:

    Epic Flash 10.5
    HiBore XLS 2 Wood
    Epic 5w -1*
    Cleveland Launcher HB 4-S
    O Works #7
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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members  11798WRX Points: 1,601Posts: 11,798 Titanium Tees
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    Well e6 (the original one and presumably the "soft" or "distance" ones now) doesn't spin a lick with any club. So if you want no spin and are too proud to play Pinnacles maybe it's a good choice.<br />
    <br />
    As far as I can tell, Bridgestone's marketing is based on this thinking...<br />
    <br />
    We're not going to get very far telling hackers, "You don't want a ProV1, you want a B330 that's just like a ProV1 except better".<br />
    <br />
    So let's try something more like, "Hey, you can't hit that ProV1, you're not good enough. Try our e6 that's a totally different kind of ball no ProV1 player would be caught dead with". <br />
    <br />
    Ever hear of the old pick-up artist term "negging"? That's the essence of Bridgestone's golf ball marketing.
    Posted:
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • munichopmunichop Members  377WRX Points: 274Posts: 377 Greens
    Joined:  #9
    I am someone who has played a 3 piece surlyn ball for since jan. '15- the top flite gamer soft. I have shot or tied my personal best on almost every course I have played with it. I have spent the last 6 weeks trying to find an adequate replacement for it since it appears Dicks is stopping production. Aside from the durability the big advantages this ball had for me was a higher launch, better in the wind, very consistent chipping and putting and a fair amount of release on the ground after drives. I shot a bogey free 64 the first round I played it in a mens club event. Few things have given me more pleasure the last 3 plus years than beating all the "tour ball" players with this ball.
    Posted:
  • Tanner25Tanner25 Members  6699WRX Points: 320Posts: 6,699 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 8, 2018 #10
    <br />
    But why put a surlyn cover on a ball with a core and a mantle? It's like wiping before you drop a deuce. Higher price compared to a 2 piece surlyn and still no spin around the greens. Who would buy it?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Funny you would say that, I love 3 piece surlyn balls. Certainly, the gamersoft was my favorite. For some reason newer balls are coming out in matte. I don't care for the Project S. But, I think the Callway Superhot matte ball will work.<br />
    <br />
    These balls generally have a better feel than a two piece with a hint of spin. Urethane spins too much and a two piece doesn't spin at all - the 3 piece surlyn balls are inbetween - that's why!<br />
    <br />
    Also, moderately priced - Wilson Spin is another good one.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • lil'mikelil'mike Members  1326WRX Points: 91Posts: 1,326 Platinum Tees
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    Is the Topflite Gamer surlyn cover? I don't remember but alot of folks play that ball, seem to like it and comment it gets some spin.
    Posted:
  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members  2037WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Posts: 2,037 Platinum Tees
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    Top Flite Gamer has some good bite to it. Also Callaway HX Bite had some following here as well. <br />
    <br />
    The 3 pc still allows with a thin cover some good green side action while being low spin off the driver.
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
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  • LumpyPocketsLumpyPockets Members  52WRX Points: 53Posts: 52 Bunkers
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    I’m only playing urethane because k3 are so cheap. I’m a bump and run short game player. Wouldn’t a srixon soft feel perform as well as any three piece ionomer ball if the three piece balls’ only advantage was to allow a lower compression core?
    Posted:
    In the Sun Mountain Three.Five aka The Bag of Shame:

    Epic Flash 10.5
    HiBore XLS 2 Wood
    Epic 5w -1*
    Cleveland Launcher HB 4-S
    O Works #7
  • NJpatbeeNJpatbee Ocean County, NJMembers  1596WRX Points: 183Handicap: 15.9Posts: 1,596 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #14
    The Gamersoft was great for my game and I used it after switching from the discontinued Gamer V2. I played the NXT for years which was also a 3 piece surlyn ball although not as good as the Gamer for my game. I was sold on the slightly better feel and performance of the 3 piece surlyn ball, however, since the Gamersoft is no longer available I have switched to the 2 piece DT Trrusoft after some experimentation and it performs well. I am not a physicist and would not try to explain why both balls worked for me!
    Posted:
  • jslane57jslane57 Members  3929WRX Points: 27Handicap: <5Posts: 3,929 Titanium Tees
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    The wipe then deuce! LOL. I do agree with this tread, there are plenty of fine 2 piece balls these days if you don't want the spin or the cost of a urethane covered multilayered ball...
    Posted:
  • flushemflushem Members  2114WRX Points: 434Handicap: 11.5Posts: 2,114 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 9, 2018 #16
    I m a big advocate og pinnacle soft. I say it is the most overlooked 2 piece ball. Softer than most balls.I used to play 3 poece maxfli a while ago. Nowadays there are many urethane balls as cheap or cheaper than big name 3 piece surlyn balls. Why bother then?
    Posted:
  • Tanner25Tanner25 Members  6699WRX Points: 320Posts: 6,699 Titanium Tees
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    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    I m a big advocate og pinnacle soft. I say it is the most overlooked 2 piece ball. Softer than most balls.I used to play 3 poece maxfli a while ago. Nowadays there are many urethane balls as cheap or cheaper than big name 3 piece surlyn balls. Why bother then?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'd say because some of us don't need the spin of urethane - checking up too early. Although, balls like Volvik Vibe, Duo U can be found cheaper and have a small amount of spin. Is QST in this category - less green side spin?
    Posted:
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  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members  2037WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Posts: 2,037 Platinum Tees
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    Tanner25 wrote:
    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    I m a big advocate og pinnacle soft. I say it is the most overlooked 2 piece ball. Softer than most balls.I used to play 3 poece maxfli a while ago. Nowadays there are many urethane balls as cheap or cheaper than big name 3 piece surlyn balls. Why bother then?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'd say because some of us don't need the spin of urethane - checking up too early. Although, balls like Volvik Vibe, Duo U can be found cheaper and have a small amount of spin. Is QST in this category - less green side spin?
    <br />
    The New QST has trial 6-packs right now for $9.99 so give them a chance
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
  • 1Mordrid11Mordrid1 Members  1011WRX Points: 398Posts: 1,011 Platinum Tees
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    Tanner25 wrote:
    <br />
    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    I m a big advocate og pinnacle soft. I say it is the most overlooked 2 piece ball. Softer than most balls.I used to play 3 poece maxfli a while ago. Nowadays there are many urethane balls as cheap or cheaper than big name 3 piece surlyn balls. Why bother then?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'd say because some of us don't need the spin of urethane - checking up too early. Although, balls like Volvik Vibe, Duo U can be found cheaper and have a small amount of spin. Is QST in this category - less green side spin?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    QST has a little less spin than the Z Star. But definitely quite a bit more spin and a lot more "bite" than 3 piece surlyn balls for my swing.
    Posted:
  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members  2037WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Posts: 2,037 Platinum Tees
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    I'll say it again, there is a reason the Gamer and Gamer soft had such a cult following. Low spin of driver, long off the tee and long irons, but more than adequate spin control around the greens. Not ProV spin but for most muni conditions it had some good bite going on. <br />
    <br />
    Now they seem to be no longer in production, probably the best bet would be to upgrade to the K3 or UFli since the price is almost the same. <br />
    <br />
    I have lots of Gamer's in my stash and I can say there isn't a 2 pc Surlyn ball that played as well, at any price.
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
  • flushemflushem Members  2114WRX Points: 434Handicap: 11.5Posts: 2,114 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #21
    Break81 wrote:
    <br />
    I'll say it again, there is a reason the Gamer and Gamer soft had such a cult following. Low spin of driver, long off the tee and long irons, but more than adequate spin control around the greens. Not ProV spin but for most muni conditions it had some good bite going on.<br />
    <br />
    Now they seem to be no longer in production, probably the best bet would be to upgrade to the K3 or UFli since the price is almost the same. <br />
    <br />
    I have lots of Gamer's in my stash and I can say there isn't a 2 pc Surlyn ball that played as well, at any price.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    B81, you sound like whining ksig loving zombies. <br />
    <br />
    IMO, it would be easier to adjust your game with cheaper urethane balls than buying overpriced 3 piece surlyn balls.
    Posted:
  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members  2037WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Posts: 2,037 Platinum Tees
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    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    Break81 wrote:
    <br />
    I'll say it again, there is a reason the Gamer and Gamer soft had such a cult following. Low spin of driver, long off the tee and long irons, but more than adequate spin control around the greens. Not ProV spin but for most muni conditions it had some good bite going on.<br />
    <br />
    Now they seem to be no longer in production, probably the best bet would be to upgrade to the K3 or UFli since the price is almost the same. <br />
    <br />
    I have lots of Gamer's in my stash and I can say there isn't a 2 pc Surlyn ball that played as well, at any price.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    B81, you sound like whining ksig loving zombies. <br />
    <br />
    IMO, it would be easier to adjust your game with cheaper urethane balls than buying overpriced 3 piece surlyn balls.<br />
    <br />
    Flushem, I have lots of Gamers, I would be more than happy to give you a couple sleeves to try. Since we are in the same area just let me know.
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
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  • flushemflushem Members  2114WRX Points: 434Handicap: 11.5Posts: 2,114 Platinum Tees
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    Break81 wrote:
    <br />
    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    Break81 wrote:
    <br />
    I'll say it again, there is a reason the Gamer and Gamer soft had such a cult following. Low spin of driver, long off the tee and long irons, but more than adequate spin control around the greens. Not ProV spin but for most muni conditions it had some good bite going on.<br />
    <br />
    Now they seem to be no longer in production, probably the best bet would be to upgrade to the K3 or UFli since the price is almost the same. <br />
    <br />
    I have lots of Gamer's in my stash and I can say there isn't a 2 pc Surlyn ball that played as well, at any price.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    B81, you sound like whining ksig loving zombies. <br />
    <br />
    IMO, it would be easier to adjust your game with cheaper urethane balls than buying overpriced 3 piece surlyn balls.<br />
    <br />
    Flushem, I have lots of Gamers, I would be more than happy to give you a couple sleeves to try. Since we are in the same area just let me know.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I once was DSG shopper until DSG went against my belief. Thus, thanx but no thanx. we should catch up. been overdue.
    Posted:
  • erock9174erock9174 North Canton, OHMembers  4185WRX Points: 254Handicap: 10.5Posts: 4,185 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #24
    <br />
    I see Bridgestone E6's played a ton. Waste of money right? Bridgestone feels that amateurs should play ionomer, not urethane.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    And I’d argue buy Bridgestone’s two piece Extra Soft and tell me if you notice a difference. <br />
    <br />
    In my opinion the 2 pc surlyns of today hold their own and usually fall under the $22 price point. I can’t see a 3pc surlyn outperforming them. <br />
    <br />
    The only 3pc surlyn balls I’d pay more for are the Volvik Vivid (2018) and the Superhot Bold. Not because they perform any better than a $22 Supersoft but because they have a cool grabby feeling matte finish that is different from every other matte ball I’ve held.
    Posted:

    Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 

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    Exotics Xrail  4h | 5h

    Cobra  T-Rail 6-SW

    Cleveland CBX 60* 

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    Exotics Wingman 01

    Titleist ProV1x Yellow

    Handicap: 9.2


  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members  2037WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Posts: 2,037 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #25
    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    Break81 wrote:
    <br />
    flushem wrote:
    <br />
    Break81 wrote:
    <br />
    I'll say it again, there is a reason the Gamer and Gamer soft had such a cult following. Low spin of driver, long off the tee and long irons, but more than adequate spin control around the greens. Not ProV spin but for most muni conditions it had some good bite going on.<br />
    <br />
    Now they seem to be no longer in production, probably the best bet would be to upgrade to the K3 or UFli since the price is almost the same. <br />
    <br />
    I have lots of Gamer's in my stash and I can say there isn't a 2 pc Surlyn ball that played as well, at any price.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    B81, you sound like whining ksig loving zombies. <br />
    <br />
    IMO, it would be easier to adjust your game with cheaper urethane balls than buying overpriced 3 piece surlyn balls.<br />
    <br />
    Flushem, I have lots of Gamers, I would be more than happy to give you a couple sleeves to try. Since we are in the same area just let me know.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I once was DSG shopper until DSG went against my belief. Thus, thanx but no thanx. we should catch up. been overdue.<br />
    <br />
    For sure - and I also avoid Dicks and GG but the $8 a dozen at GG got me to overlook my personal feelings for a moment. I am sure they didn't make a profit off that purchase. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> <br />
    <br />
    Maybe we can get a game sometime in October.
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
  • ghoul31ghoul31 Members  479WRX Points: 72Posts: 479 Greens
    Joined:  #26
    When you can get good 2 piece balls for $10, I don't see the point in paying $30 for an E6
    Posted:
  • Break81Break81 Broke80 Members  2037WRX Points: 90Handicap: 9.5Posts: 2,037 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #27
    ghoul31 wrote:
    When you can get good 2 piece balls for $10, I don't see the point in paying $30 for an E6
    <br />
    How about $15 for a Vice 3 pc Surlyn ?<br />
    <br />
    Posted:
    Cobra F7+ - Stiff
    Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
    Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
    EVNROLL ER5
    Srixon XV - Yellow
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  • zebra2955zebra2955 Frankfort Square Il Members  692WRX Points: 93Handicap: 12.8Posts: 692 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2018 #28
    The superhot 55 I got at Costco would have some bite to them. And at $29.99 a double dozen a good buy. But when I finish off the last of what I have I will start on my K3, C4 and Ufli soft . get much more stopping with them
    Posted:


    Callaway Rogue/Epic depending on my mood

    Callaway Epic 3 wood

    Callaway Rogue 5 wood

    Cobra F6 hybrids, 3-4 and 4-5

    Cobra F6 irons 6i -PW, GW

    Harry Taylor 54* and 58* wedges

    Odyssey "O" Works 2 ball, Super Stroke mid slim 2.0 grip



  • LumpyPocketsLumpyPockets Members  52WRX Points: 53Posts: 52 Bunkers
    Joined:  #29

    If the three piece Surlyn covered balls are old tech the two piece balls should be their equal, correct? There are still quite a few multi layered ionomer covered balls for sale so folks must be buying them. At this point I know what I am as a golfer and it's scraping a 40 once a week on league night. At my skill level I don't think there's any reason to play urethane. It would be awesome if there was a strokes gained formula for golf balls but there's very little info out there about selecting a golf ball other than "start at the green and work your way back". Or the Golf mags showing spin numbers on partial wedge shots. Midwest golf on public courses with soaked bent grass greens doesn't require many spinny shots and those low spinners have never been an option for me anyway. So is there any reason to pay extra for a mantle on a surlyn covered ball in 2019?

    Posted:
    In the Sun Mountain Three.Five aka The Bag of Shame:

    Epic Flash 10.5
    HiBore XLS 2 Wood
    Epic 5w -1*
    Cleveland Launcher HB 4-S
    O Works #7
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members  11798WRX Points: 1,601Posts: 11,798 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #30

    If you don't need any particular amount of spin on approach shots or short game, there is no reason to pay for anything more expensive than the cheapest 2pc balls. A few years ago there was, in theory, a possibility of a bit more ball speed with a 3pc Surlyn ball compared to the 2pc ones but the latter are now darn near maxed out for ball speed.

    And if you do need some spin there are urethane balls at similar prices to the few remaining 3pc Surlyn models. So there urethane is a far better deal.

    My guess is, in another couple years there won't be any of the mutipiece Surlyn balls. They tend to sell for premium prices while offering less performance than urethane models. That doesn't make for a long-term successful market niche!

    Posted:
    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
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  • deepreddeepred Members  352WRX Points: 104Handicap: 12Posts: 352 Greens
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    Ball companies have been able to soften surlyn so it spins more without the third layer, five years from now we may be remembering the great old urethane balls.

    Posted:
    Cleveland Classic XL Driver
    KE4 5 wood 17* 43”
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