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X-stiff or stiff

mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
Hi!



Looking at a great deal on a Taylor Made M2 2016 driver. My swing speed is about 100-102, the shaft is a Diamana S60+ blue x-stiff. I like my shaft

on a driver to feel a little boardy, but would an x-stiff for my swing speed, and moderate tempo, be too much to handle. I tried a x-stiff shaft like 10 years ago, a V2 and remember that felt quite stiff.



Thanks!!

Comments

  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Advanced Members Posts: 3,467 ✭✭
    Not enough speed for that shaft.
    Cobra F8+ 11*, Mitsubishi Grand Bassara 39 R

    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 15.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 S

    Ping G400 hybrids 19*, 22*, Alta 70 R

    Callaway Rogue Pro 5-pw, Recoil F3

    Miura "Mind The Gap" 51*, Recoil F3

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Ping Sigma 2 ZB 2, 35", 2* loft, OTW

    Super Stroke Oversize grips
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    rgk5 wrote:


    Not enough speed for that shaft.


    What speed would be more appropriate you think?
  • SubaruWRXSubaruWRX Advanced Members Posts: 3,280 ✭✭
    Consider head weight and playing length as well
    “I think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from **** is a very solid way to choose clubs.” - bluedot
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    SubaruWRX wrote:


    Consider head weight and playing length as well


    What would be standard head weight? The length of that is like 45.5, its standard length. How would that affect you mean?
  • Krt22Krt22 Advanced Members Posts: 6,032 ✭✭
    mizunotpz wrote:

    SubaruWRX wrote:


    Consider head weight and playing length as well


    What would be standard head weight? The length of that is like 45.5, its standard length. How would that affect you mean?




    If you played it shorter and added weight to bring up swing weight, the shaft will play softer.



    With that being said, the diamana blue 60 isnt an very stout profile, so may not be a big deal.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Homepage says x starts around 106. If I dont like the shaft I can always trade it. But I havent measuered my swing speed in like 6-7 years and improved my swing a lot since then.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Krt22 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    SubaruWRX wrote:


    Consider head weight and playing length as well


    What would be standard head weight? The length of that is like 45.5, its standard length. How would that affect you mean?




    If you played it shorter and added weight to bring up swing weight, the shaft will play softer.



    With that being said, the diamana blue 60 isnt an very stout profile, so may not be a big deal.


    No, and I mostly react to shafts thats very tip stiff, and this shaft isnt, more like butt stiff. But thanks for the info. Cause I will most likely shorten the shaft in the butt end and add some weight to the head.
  • ian-500ian-500 Advanced Members Posts: 607 ✭✭
    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Cobra F9 9* + Tour AD IZ 7x.
    Callaway Rogue SZ 15 Tour Issue + Tour AD IZ 7x.
    Callaway Rogue 19 Tour Issue + Tour AD IZ 8s.
    Adams Pro 23 Tour Issue + Tour AD UT95x
    Adams DHY Pro 27 + Irod 105x.
    Adams XTD Forged Tour Issue 6i - GW + Recoil Prototype 125F5.
    Adams XTD Forged SW/LW + KBS Hi-Rev x.
    SeeMore SB1, Accra FX300, Garsen.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    And I can hit my driver like 260 up to 290 in warm conditions so it might work.
  • bradskibradski Advanced Members Posts: 2,313 ✭✭
    it honestly comes down to preference and #'s. But the standard for xstiff is usually 110ish and up.
  • Krt22Krt22 Advanced Members Posts: 6,032 ✭✭
    For me the trade off of going to weak is far worse than going too stiff. Ill gladly give up a hand full of yards for more control and less left misses. Worse case you can find the same exact shaft in stiff for not a bunch of money.
  • Krt22Krt22 Advanced Members Posts: 6,032 ✭✭
    bradski wrote:


    it honestly comes down to preference and #'s. But the standard for xstiff is usually 110ish and up.




    There is no real standard, those are just guidelines. Really depends on the player and how they load the shaft. Profile matters as well.
  • LodestoneLodestone Advanced Members Posts: 3,137 ✭✭
    Would you mind sharing what a "great deal" on a '16 M2 is? I've been doing some window shopping myself.



    thanks
    FORE RIGHT!!!!
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Krt22 wrote:

    bradski wrote:


    it honestly comes down to preference and #'s. But the standard for xstiff is usually 110ish and up.




    There is no real standard, those are just guidelines. Really depends on the player and how they load the shaft. Profile matters as well.


    Yes thats what Im thinking also, like a Bassara 40 gram shaft might play softer in x stiff than a Tensei white in stiff. And as you say I could easily find a similar shaft in stiff and maybe even exchange it with someone who wants to go stiffer. But Im like you, I prefer to go straight and slightly shorter and not that duck hook. Hate it.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Lodestone wrote:


    Would you mind sharing what a "great deal" on a '16 M2 is? I've been doing some window shopping myself.



    thanks


    Its over here in Sweden. Its a demo, but looks new to me. about 130 dollars.
  • OokluhOokluh Members Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited March 13
    Swing speed only part of the story, but that speed usually would be more likely to be a stiff fit. Violent or fast transitions can push people into next flex up if sort of borderline, not sure if that is borderline though. That being said, if you use a 70 stiff then maybe a 60 xstiff wouldn't necessarily be tremendously different. Just my 2c, far from an expert.
  • kiw1982kiw1982 Advanced Members Posts: 1,102 ✭✭
    You can try stiff shaft tipped.
    Mizuno        ST-180 Driver w/KuroKage HBP 50 X
    Taylormade  M6 3 Wood w/NV 2KXV Blue 75 X
    Mizuno        CLK 3 Hybrid w/Tensei CK Blue 80H X
    Taylormade  P790 4-G Irons w/KBS tour 130 X
    Mizuno        T7 56/10 Wedgew/KBS tour 130 X
    Mizuno        S18 Wedge w/KBS tour 130 X
    Odyssey      O-Works 1WS Putter
    Titleist         AVX Golf Balls
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Advanced Members Posts: 11,368 ✭✭
    If you're over 100 no probs with that shaft
    Ping G400 LST 11* Mitsu TI BB Matte 53x
    Callaway GBB 3w 14* Mitsu Blueboard 63x
    Ping G400 5w 17* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Callaway V-series Hwood Fuji TS 8.2s
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* Fujikura 904HBs
    Ping Rapture 5-PW Aldila NV MLTi Pro105x
    Ping iWedge 50* Aldila NV 105x
    Ping Zing 2 BeCu s2 54.5* & s3 57.5*
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • DaRizDaRiz Advanced Members Posts: 1,503 ✭✭
    I was in this situation. Self-fit for the past few years, 105-112 mph swing speed, always had more success with X shafts, they always seemed to go straighter for me. BUT I always felt like I had to really gear up to hit it. On cold days, and in early/late in the year, I was more inconsistent but attributed that to not being in "mid season form". Fact of the matter is I probably couldn't swing fast enough in the cold to load the shaft properly. This year I decided to get fit as my driver was only going about 250-260 even though I was crushing it. Old guys were out driving me with visibly slower speeds.



    I went from:



    Ping G 9* Speeder 757 X-stiff (77g low launch) D1

    to

    TS3 8.5* Kiyoshi Purple 75 stiff (79g high launch) D4



    Down in flex, up in launch, up slightly shaft weight and swing weight, and down in loft. You would think that going down in flex and up in launch that I would be hitting the ball super high (I was already a high ball hitter even with the 757 in X), but it was the opposite. By having the correct weight and flex, I was able to load the shaft properly which lowered my trajectory. I was swinging my 757 X at 105mph and the Kiyoshi Purple at 112mph. The softer shaft alone got me tons of ball speed and yardage. Having a well-fit shaft also enabled me to use a low spin head, instead of a head with max forgiveness, which got me even more yards. My strategy had been to use a super forgiving head with a super stiff shaft to kill the spin, but that was not ideal for me and actually backfired and produced way too much spin, even though I was very accurate with it.



    Stats were something like:



    Gamer:

    105 swing speed, 150 ball speed, 120 ft height, 260 carry 270 total (on my absolutely best, not sharing my avgs) playing a FADE

    New Driver:

    112 swing speed, 160 ball speed, 75 ft height, 270 carry 300 total (on my averages!) playing a DRAW



    note: I did nothing to go from a fade to a draw other than the shaft change. I typically play a draw in all my clubs except driver, which happens to be my only club that was X flex, you do the math..



    Bottom line: stiffer shafts do not always mean lower launch and less spin, and swing speed does not always dictate shaft flex. Check your ego, going down in flex gave me more swing speed and ball speed. Find a softer shaft you can control and you might be pleasantly surprised.
    [font=georgia,serif]G 9*757 Evo I TS X
    G25 16.5* Rogue Silver 70S
    913H 19* S+ 82S
    MP H4 (4-6) MP4 (7-PW) s300
    SM5 50.12F /54.14F SM7 60.12D s200
    #7 Metal-X Milled[/font]
  • cgasuckscgasucks Advanced Members Posts: 2,147 ✭✭
    edited March 13
    For your 100MPH Swing Speed, Stiff is just perfect for you. Your swing speed has to be at least 110 to handle xstiff. But that is ultimately up to you, if that xstiff feels fine to you, then go with it.
    10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft
    Titleist DCI 990 Irons (3-PW) with stock Dynamic Gold shafts in S300
    Taylormade ATV 54 deg & 58 deg wedges with stock KBS shafts
    Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts
    Ping Anser 2 Stainless Steel Putter
  • Stuart G.Stuart G. Members, Advanced Members Posts: 22,641 ✭✭
    Sorry, don't listen to anyone that tells you you should or should not get that shaft just based on the swing speed. Swing speed only gives a possible starting point in the fitting process, nothing more.



    I know it's winter but if it's a demo, any way you can actually demo it to test how it feels and performs for you? Even indoors on a LM would get you the answers you need. That's the only way to tell



    But also keep in mind that if it really is that good of a price, it might be worth it to get the club even if you have to change shafts to get the most out of it. It's really not that hard or expensive to convert an older shaft you've used and still have (and know works) to use it in the new head.
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Advanced Members Posts: 3,467 ✭✭
    mizunotpz wrote:

    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.




    There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.
    Cobra F8+ 11*, Mitsubishi Grand Bassara 39 R

    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 15.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 S

    Ping G400 hybrids 19*, 22*, Alta 70 R

    Callaway Rogue Pro 5-pw, Recoil F3

    Miura "Mind The Gap" 51*, Recoil F3

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Ping Sigma 2 ZB 2, 35", 2* loft, OTW

    Super Stroke Oversize grips
  • Stuart G.Stuart G. Members, Advanced Members Posts: 22,641 ✭✭
    edited March 14
    rgk5 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.




    There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.




    Yes, there are exceptions but generally weight is much more important than flex. But there is no way to know or even guess at what point the OP will be 'pushing' it or not.



    A corollary to flex not being generally as important is that there is no ideal or right or wrong amount of loading in a shaft. There is nothing wrong with not getting a certain amount or very much loading in a shaft if it happens to be "too stiff" compared to what most people expect - as long as the feel doesn't cause problems with the swing. And that's where the exceptions come to play. And there certainly are people who have to get a certain feel out of the shaft in order to get good results. For those people too stiff and too soft are very important things that need to be avoided.



    But just because some people have that problem and might push themselves too much when they get a shaft that feels too stiff doesn't mean everyone will. Lots of folks can still continue to put a good consistent swing on the shaft even if it might be considered too stiff by some others. And even for those that do, the point at which it becomes too stiff is going to be different for everyone.



    In fact, I think it was Sneed who couldn't stand to feel ANY give or loading in the shaft and made them as stiff as he possibly could.
  • mwink822mwink822 Advanced Members Posts: 2,573 ✭✭
    edited March 14
    I find profile, weight, and balance to make more of a difference for me. In driver I like something that's more of the one-piece stout feel, fairways I like a smoother feel. We had a Titleist demo day at my club not too long ago and I found I reacted to different shaft profiles more differently than I did when changing flex within the same shaft. Likewise, I reacted more to a change in weight than I did to a change in flex.



    At about 100 MPH with a Blue Board 60, shouldn't be too much of an issue.
    Titleist 917D3 9.5* Aldila Rogue Silver 80 Tour X 125 MSI
    Titleist 915 Fd 13.5* Diamana S+ 80X (rotates in and out based on course played)
    Titleist 917F2 18* (turned down to 17.25*) Aldila Rogue Black 80X 95 MSI
    3-P Mizuno JPX 900 Tour Nippon Modus 3 105X
    White Satin Mizuno MP T7 51-08 Modus 3 105X
    Blue Ion Mizuno MP T7 55-09 Modus 3 105X Soft Stepped
    Blue Ion Mizuno MP T7 59-09 Modus 3 105X Soft Stepped
    Scotty Cameron Studio Select Fastback 1
  • driveandputtmachinedriveandputtmachine 4 wedges or 2 iron? That is the question! Advanced Members Posts: 1,125
    edited March 14
    SS has some to do with it, but in general transition plays a bigger role in what stiffness to play in what I have seen or heard of in most fittings. I am not a fitter, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn so take this with a grain of salt.



    For instance, I have a rather rough transition, I also do swing around 115 and I play an X flex in the driver and throughout my entire set. One of my best buds SS is roughly 113 and plays R and S flex shafts throughout his set. His transition is much smoother and between that and the fact that his body feels better swinging a softer shaft it is what fits him best.



    One other big factor, one companies S is another companies X is another companies R. I will say I have seen better tolerances in manufacturers standards within flex for each model, but there are still variances there as well.
    Driver - Ping 400 MAX on UST Mamiya Green Proto
    Fairway - Cobra 3-4 LTD on UST Axivcore Black
    Srixon 785 5 wood on UST Axivcore Black
    Hybrid - TM UDI 2 iron on Nippon 130 or Ping G400 17* on UST Hybrid black
    Irons - (4-A) Taylormade 790's on KBS Tour
    Wedges - Cleveland Rotex 3.0 55*, Rotex 4.0 60* on NIppon 130
    Putter - Mannkrafted MA/66 or Taylormade Spider
    Ball - TM TP5x or Srixon Z Star XV
  • Bkonja02Bkonja02 Members Posts: 13 ✭✭
    Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.
  • Krt22Krt22 Advanced Members Posts: 6,032 ✭✭
    edited March 14
    DaRiz wrote:


    I was in this situation. Self-fit for the past few years, 105-112 mph swing speed, always had more success with X shafts, they always seemed to go straighter for me. BUT I always felt like I had to really gear up to hit it. On cold days, and in early/late in the year, I was more inconsistent but attributed that to not being in "mid season form". Fact of the matter is I probably couldn't swing fast enough in the cold to load the shaft properly. This year I decided to get fit as my driver was only going about 250-260 even though I was crushing it. Old guys were out driving me with visibly slower speeds.



    I went from:



    Ping G 9* Speeder 757 X-stiff (77g low launch) D1

    to

    TS3 8.5* Kiyoshi Purple 75 stiff (79g high launch) D4



    Down in flex, up in launch, up slightly shaft weight and swing weight, and down in loft. You would think that going down in flex and up in launch that I would be hitting the ball super high (I was already a high ball hitter even with the 757 in X), but it was the opposite. By having the correct weight and flex, I was able to load the shaft properly which lowered my trajectory. I was swinging my 757 X at 105mph and the Kiyoshi Purple at 112mph. The softer shaft alone got me tons of ball speed and yardage. Having a well-fit shaft also enabled me to use a low spin head, instead of a head with max forgiveness, which got me even more yards. My strategy had been to use a super forgiving head with a super stiff shaft to kill the spin, but that was not ideal for me and actually backfired and produced way too much spin, even though I was very accurate with it.



    Stats were something like:



    Gamer:

    105 swing speed, 150 ball speed, 120 ft height, 260 carry 270 total (on my absolutely best, not sharing my avgs) playing a FADE

    New Driver:

    112 swing speed, 160 ball speed, 75 ft height, 270 carry 300 total (on my averages!) playing a DRAW



    note: I did nothing to go from a fade to a draw other than the shaft change. I typically play a draw in all my clubs except driver, which happens to be my only club that was X flex, you do the math..



    Bottom line: stiffer shafts do not always mean lower launch and less spin, and swing speed does not always dictate shaft flex. Check your ego, going down in flex gave me more swing speed and ball speed. Find a softer shaft you can control and you might be pleasantly surprised.




    And I am the exact opposite. I always knew I was sort of border line, so played slightly softer shafts, (foolishly) listening to the "play the softest shaft you can control". I played an ADDI 6X (known to play soft) and soft stepped modus 120X (also known to be soft). My miss is an over draw with irons and sometimes a hook/block with driver.



    With how I load the shaft early, both of those shafts simply don't work with my swing. I sense the shaft loading early and head lagging behind and then try to save it with my hands. This not only introduced excess curve but also ultimately slowed me down since if I went after it harder, I would miss more left and thus try to steer it the next time. I never really got up there too much swing speed wise, so never thought I was simply over-powering the shaft.



    Ended up with a speeder 757X in driver and oban CT115X in the irons. Both are much stiffer in the handle section so I don't sense the load as much and thus keep the face more square. More active tip to promote launch since I'm no longer trying to save it with my hands. I can now go after it and not fear the big left miss, so I'm actually swinging the club faster. I was 106-109 with the ADDI, currently can get the 757X up to 113 with nothing really slower than 110. 6I is similar, was swinging my gamers 90-92, now can peak at 95-96. Carrying a little fall off fade 275+ instead of a low over-draw/hook 250ish.



    Going purely by flex at some arbitrary speed doesn't really work for me, much more important to find the right profile for your swing/tempo.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:


    Sorry, don't listen to anyone that tells you you should or should not get that shaft just based on the swing speed. Swing speed only gives a possible starting point in the fitting process, nothing more.



    I know it's winter but if it's a demo, any way you can actually demo it to test how it feels and performs for you? Even indoors on a LM would get you the answers you need. That's the only way to tell



    But also keep in mind that if it really is that good of a price, it might be worth it to get the club even if you have to change shafts to get the most out of it. It's really not that hard or expensive to convert an older shaft you've used and still have (and know works) to use it in the new head.


    Thank you Stuart G, you always give great answers. I see this as a good deal combined with an interesting experiment and try different things. There is no good fitter in my area, I know since I been to both of them and wasnt happy. They only wanted to sell me a new club, not to help into a good club for me. So if this shaft doesnt work it wont be that hard to find another shaft and sell this one or trade with someone.



    Do you remember the old V2 shaft? Only x-stiff I tried, but if I remember correctly that was a shaft with a stiffer profile than this Diamana blue Im looking at. I also heard that the modern version of Diamana blues has a softer profile than the original Diamana blueboard. But dont know if thats correct?
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Advanced Members Posts: 3,467 ✭✭
    Stuart G. wrote:

    rgk5 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.




    There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.




    Yes, there are exceptions but generally weight is much more important than flex. But there is no way to know or even guess at what point the OP will be 'pushing' it or not.



    A corollary to flex not being generally as important is that there is no ideal or right or wrong amount of loading in a shaft. There is nothing wrong with not getting a certain amount or very much loading in a shaft if it happens to be "too stiff" compared to what most people expect - as long as the feel doesn't cause problems with the swing. And that's where the exceptions come to play. And there certainly are people who have to get a certain feel out of the shaft in order to get good results. For those people too stiff and too soft are very important things that need to be avoided.



    But just because some people have that problem and might push themselves too much when they get a shaft that feels too stiff doesn't mean everyone will. Lots of folks can still continue to put a good consistent swing on the shaft even if it might be considered too stiff by some others. And even for those that do, the point at which it becomes too stiff is going to be different for everyone.



    In fact, I think it was Sneed who couldn't stand to feel ANY give or loading in the shaft and made them as stiff as he possibly could.




    That is exactly why asking to be "fit" on golf forum is a fool's errand. I based my opinion based on seeing hundreds of golfers trying drivers each year for the last 16 years and generally my observation is in the ball park but not 100%. He really should see a good fitting salon because as mentioned, shaft loading is critical as is weight.
    Cobra F8+ 11*, Mitsubishi Grand Bassara 39 R

    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 15.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 S

    Ping G400 hybrids 19*, 22*, Alta 70 R

    Callaway Rogue Pro 5-pw, Recoil F3

    Miura "Mind The Gap" 51*, Recoil F3

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Ping Sigma 2 ZB 2, 35", 2* loft, OTW

    Super Stroke Oversize grips
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    rgk5 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.




    There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.


    I think you contradict yourself a little. You say no way I can game that shaft, and then you say Callaway robot testing has proved that weight has a bigger impact than flex. You might be right, maybe thats not the flex for me. But its a profile of a shaft Ive been successful with in the past.
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Advanced Members Posts: 11,368 ✭✭
    Bkonja02 wrote:


    Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.




    The Oban purple 55x is awesome. AD DI 6x also awesome. Oban Revenge 6x is a beaut. I HAVE a shaft hoarding problem



    I also like Aldila NV 55x, Aldila Nasty Long 60x, a Blueboard 63x is AMAZING (I swing my 3w at 100 with that shaft)



    Like you I find softer X's work best and don't mind lighter



    Lots of lighter X stuff on the bay, just scoop one and have a fitter glue on a Ping adapter to the tip .. adapters also all over the bay
    Ping G400 LST 11* Mitsu TI BB Matte 53x
    Callaway GBB 3w 14* Mitsu Blueboard 63x
    Ping G400 5w 17* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Callaway V-series Hwood Fuji TS 8.2s
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* Fujikura 904HBs
    Ping Rapture 5-PW Aldila NV MLTi Pro105x
    Ping iWedge 50* Aldila NV 105x
    Ping Zing 2 BeCu s2 54.5* & s3 57.5*
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Has nothing to do with ego my friend. Just want to try something different and this is a good opportunity to do it. Its primarily the head Im the most interested in, since Ive heard a lot of good stuff about that head. And I also like to feel the shaft during the swing. This might be a good way to experiment with that. But thanks for your input, that and other answers here shows us that we are all different. Only Mark Crossfield can swing any shaft and adjust hahaha
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Advanced Members Posts: 11,368 ✭✭
    cgasucks wrote:


    For your 100MPH Swing Speed, Stiff is just perfect for you. Your swing speed has to be at least 110 to handle xstiff. But that is ultimately up to you, if that xstiff feels fine to you, then go with it.




    That is 100% not true. There is no MPH hard and fast rule on X flex. X flexes come in a massive variety of profiles, many of which are softer at the tip end - which makes loading a snap for the right player
    Ping G400 LST 11* Mitsu TI BB Matte 53x
    Callaway GBB 3w 14* Mitsu Blueboard 63x
    Ping G400 5w 17* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Callaway V-series Hwood Fuji TS 8.2s
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* Fujikura 904HBs
    Ping Rapture 5-PW Aldila NV MLTi Pro105x
    Ping iWedge 50* Aldila NV 105x
    Ping Zing 2 BeCu s2 54.5* & s3 57.5*
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Advanced Members Posts: 11,368 ✭✭
    Bkonja02 wrote:


    Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.




    I forgot to mention the smoothest X flex ever .. Fujikura tour spec 660TR .... like buttah
    Ping G400 LST 11* Mitsu TI BB Matte 53x
    Callaway GBB 3w 14* Mitsu Blueboard 63x
    Ping G400 5w 17* Fubuki Tour 73x
    Callaway V-series Hwood Fuji TS 8.2s
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* Fujikura 904HBs
    Ping Rapture 5-PW Aldila NV MLTi Pro105x
    Ping iWedge 50* Aldila NV 105x
    Ping Zing 2 BeCu s2 54.5* & s3 57.5*
    Piretti Matera Elite (torched)
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    On the True Temper website they state that x flex in graphite shafts starts around 100 depending on the swing type.
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Advanced Members Posts: 3,467 ✭✭
    mizunotpz wrote:

    rgk5 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.




    There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.


    I think you contradict yourself a little. You say no way I can game that shaft, and then you say Callaway robot testing has proved that weight has a bigger impact than flex. You might be right, maybe thats not the flex for me. But its a profile of a shaft Ive been successful with in the past.





    Well if that is the case, you do not need the advice of anyone here, do you? You also misread the message in the Callaway reference. The weight finding made no mention of bend profile, or tip stiffness. All of these are difficlut to accurately fit with a keyboard. I've said my piece and I wish you good luck in your search. image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' />
    Cobra F8+ 11*, Mitsubishi Grand Bassara 39 R

    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 15.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 S

    Ping G400 hybrids 19*, 22*, Alta 70 R

    Callaway Rogue Pro 5-pw, Recoil F3

    Miura "Mind The Gap" 51*, Recoil F3

    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 58*, Alta 70 R

    Ping Sigma 2 ZB 2, 35", 2* loft, OTW

    Super Stroke Oversize grips
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    rgk5 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    rgk5 wrote:

    mizunotpz wrote:

    ian-500 wrote:


    You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


    haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.




    There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.


    I think you contradict yourself a little. You say no way I can game that shaft, and then you say Callaway robot testing has proved that weight has a bigger impact than flex. You might be right, maybe thats not the flex for me. But its a profile of a shaft Ive been successful with in the past.





    Well if that is the case, you do not need the advice of anyone here, do you? You also misread the message in the Callaway reference. The weight finding made no mention of bend profile, or tip stiffness. All of these are difficlut to accurately fit with a keyboard. I've said my piece and I wish you good luck in your search. image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' />


    I didnt misread anything. I know what you meant, maybe you should check what you actually said, about shaft weight being more important than flex. Im very grateful for all the input and advice from everyone here, dont know what you mean by that. You sound a little offended and i dont know why.
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Ive learned from Stuart G before, he knows a lot about this sutff, I also felt that most posters had the same opinion as him, you being the exception. When I post a question I listen to the people who has the most knowledge and best arguments, in this case this wasnt you rgk5.
  • PunkGolfWRXPunkGolfWRX Advanced Members Posts: 103
    Krt22 wrote:

    bradski wrote:


    it honestly comes down to preference and #'s. But the standard for xstiff is usually 110ish and up.




    There is no real standard, those are just guidelines. Really depends on the player and how they load the shaft. Profile matters as well.




    Exactly!

    My SS over the years has dropped from 115 to around 107 and at a recent fitting was expecting to see stiffs perform better but the way I hit it, the x is still right for me, at least in the low spin/launch cat.
    DR: Callaway XR Sub Zero 9.5° - Project X HZRDUS Yellow Hand Crafted 6.0
    FW: TaylorMade M3 15° - Mitsubishi Tensei CX Blue 65 S
    HY: Adams XTD Ti 18° - Mitsubishi Tensei CX Pro Blue 80HY S
    2i: TaylorMade P790 UDI - Project X HZRDUS Black 6.5
    4-PW: Callaway Apex CF16 Black - UST Mamiya Recoil ES 780 F4 (Black)
    GW: Callaway Mack Daddy 4 Matte Black 50°/10° S Grind - UST Mamiya Recoil 110 F4
    SW: Callaway PM Grind 19 Tour Grey 54°/14° - Project X Catalyst 6.0
    LW: Callaway PM Grind 19 Tour Grey 60°/12° - Project X Catalyst 6.0
    P: Scotty Cameron H18 Squareback 34”
    B: Titleist Pro V1x
  • Bkonja02Bkonja02 Members Posts: 13 ✭✭
    cardoustie wrote:

    Bkonja02 wrote:


    Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.




    I forgot to mention the smoothest X flex ever .. Fujikura tour spec 660TR .... like buttah
  • Bkonja02Bkonja02 Members Posts: 13 ✭✭
    Cardoustie...Thank you for both of your responses to my post and not getting caught up in the hornets-nest of posts surrounding it! I was on the bay a few days ago looking into all of the aldila options you listed and the AD options as well. I was straying away from the Fujikura only bc of my bad "whippy" experience I had with the Vista Pro... (Not saying its a poor shaft whatsoever for anyone reading this...just my personal experience)... But I'm gonna look into this Tour Spec 660TR since you've mentioned it (the "like buttah" reference sounds like me talking) I'm going to a local fitting location to test as many of these out as I can... I'm gonna have a list of what I would like to test and let them assess my swing and test what they suggest as well. I will follow-up on this thread with results.
  • KevCannonKevCannon ClubWRX Charter Members Posts: 48 ClubWRX
    When i saw thread title i had a feeling there would be some healthy debating going on...lol.

    I personally feel like swing speed is only a rough starting point to use when fitting people for shafts. Anyone that uses ONLY swing speed to give recommendations when fitting, technically isn’t a very good club fitter in my opinion. This is what beginner level fitters do at big box stores (golf galaxy, Dicks,PGA SS) because the goal is to fit as many customers as possible to generate more revenue. Not hating the business model just stating facts. My buddy works at a Golf galaxy and will readily admit he isn’t a great club fitter lol.

    SS, swing tempo, and player’s release is a major factor i believe. Not to mention there is no industry standard for what is a stiff or extra stiff flex. So as most know, 1 company’s stiff shaft could feel like a regular flex in another, or even an extra stiff in another. I always played stiff flex everything until a few years ago. My skill level also did improve a decent amount, but I hit a friends extra stiff driver shaft on course one day and my ball was 30 yards further than the drive with my gamer stiff flex. This led me to really take a second look and start trying various shafts and extra stiff was far and away better for me. At the time i was between 100-105 mph with driver, and that change alone gained me distance, and accuracy. SS is now between 108-112 mph but i may never have gotten there without that testing. Just my thoughts.
    GBB Rogue Subzero w/ AD TP 7x
    Rogue 3+ wood w/ AD TP 7x
    Titleist H2 21 degree w/ Tensei pro white 95tx
    Callaway X Forged 4-P w/ Project X 6.0
    Callaway MD4 50s, 54s, 58x w/ Project X 6.0
    Toulon Austin
    Srixon Z Star XV
  • AutomaticTwoDownAutomaticTwoDown Two down after two, time to get to work Advanced Members Posts: 430 ✭✭
    mizunotpz wrote:


    Ive learned from Stuart G before, he knows a lot about this sutff, I also felt that most posters had the same opinion as him, you being the exception. When I post a question I listen to the people who has the most knowledge and best arguments, in this case this wasnt you rgk5.


    You asked the forum, so anyone is allowed to reply. If you only want answers from specific people, then send them PMs.



    And it’s clear that you have a problem with anyone who recommended a stiff shaft. So I don’t even know why you asked the question in the first place.
  • Pi5seekerPi5seeker Advanced Members Posts: 825 ✭✭
    I had an iron fitting and was told I'm between a stiff and x-stiff but the most important thing would be weight. The Mizuno DNA suggested something in the 120+ weight range and I settled on the Project X LZ 6.0.



    I've since debated trying x-stiff in my driver or at the very least a stiffer profile to see if it improves my dispersion. Ultimately it comes down to weight and feel before anything IMO.
    Cobra F8 10.5* Evenflow Blue 65
    SMT 3390 16* Grafalloy Epic FWY
    Maltby KE4 Tour 19* AXE XCaliber
    Cobra King Utility 22.5* C-Taper Lite
    Maltby DBM 5-GW S300
    Maltby Tour Grind MG 56* 60* R300
    Odyssey Works Versa 1W
    QST
    Clicgear 3.5/Callaway ORG. 14l
  • 11forgedblades11forgedblades Advanced Members Posts: 532 ✭✭
    edited March 15
    Everyone is different. Depends on how you like clubs to FEEL. Boardy or whippy. Ping eye 2's used to all have x stiff shafts for men,women, seniors...and millions of golfers played great with them. I have a higher swing speed that you (around 110 mph with driver) and now play stiff in driver, and regular/stiff in my irons. Last year I played much stiffer in all of my clubs but I'm starting to prefer a softer feel all around. I'm sure x stiff wouldn't be that much of a problem on a light weight shaft like that. JB Holmes plays stiff flex in his irons and he's one of the longest hitters on tour.
    COBRA BIO CELL+ (9.5*)-MATRIX 8Q3 STIFF
    TITLEIST 585H (21*)-TTDG S300
    COBRA FLY Z PRO (5-PW)-TTDG S300
    TAYLOR MADE TP Z (56*)-TTDG S300
    BETTINARDI BABY BEN -33"
  • mizunotpzmizunotpz Advanced Members Posts: 163 ✭✭

    mizunotpz wrote:


    Ive learned from Stuart G before, he knows a lot about this sutff, I also felt that most posters had the same opinion as him, you being the exception. When I post a question I listen to the people who has the most knowledge and best arguments, in this case this wasnt you rgk5.


    You asked the forum, so anyone is allowed to reply. If you only want answers from specific people, then send them PMs.



    And it's clear that you have a problem with anyone who recommended a stiff shaft. So I don't even know why you asked the question in the first place.


    I dont have a problem with people recommending stiff flex, I just wanted to learn from all the knowledge out here. But maybe it was wrong of me to only mention Stuart, cause I did get other interesting views from other posters. But I dont get why you had to get into the argument, cause you didnt have anything to contribute with besides negativity.
  • baloobaloo A Person Advanced Members Posts: 1,073 ✭✭
    I think the obvious answer is you have to try it to know for sure.

    If the deal is great just buy it and even if you don't like the shaft you'll have a nice driver head to show for it.
    Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
    2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
    SW - Wilson Staff
    Putter - Bullseye
    Ball - Pro Plus

    YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf
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