struggling with the usual drills to get a full shoulder turn

 burritos4breakfast ·  
burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
Joined:  in Instruction & Academy #1

need some new drills/thoughts. im really struggling to get my left shoulder over right instep and getting a full shoulder turn. i try the usual drills with arms folded with a club across my chest and making turns but it doesnt translate at all with a club when i take it to the range and film my swings. i try to feel like im turning in a barrel but i still feel like im way off the ball. i play off a 10 so im ok but its probably the reason my game has plateaued, it causes a head dip as im almost reverse pivoting so im steep and have to come out of it every shot. any drills or thoughts that helped people ingrain this correctly is appreciated

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  • andrueandrue Members  1519WRX Points: 275Handicap: 21Posts: 1,519 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 17, 2019 #2

    Well first off I think calling it a 'shoulder turn' is dodgy. I prefer to think of it as 'turning my back to the target'. It's what I'm working on right now and having a lot of success with. I keep two thoughts in my mind as I swing back: 'Turn my back to the target' and 'The club goes around, not up'. The latter thought stops me trying to lift my arms up (they will go a bit up naturally anyway).

    Last night I nearly put the ball into a fairway bunker on our 17th which, although costing me a stroke, would have been amazing as that's 240 yards from the tee and historically well out of my reach.

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  • UKGolfer86UKGolfer86 UKMembers  36WRX Points: 29Posts: 36 Bunkers
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    I have suffered this same issue.. With my turn back, im aiming for my left shoulder to turn under my chin, a much closer reference point than you right instep, and cannot be faked with a slide backwards if the turn isn't full. You could also place your ball with the logo just out of sight on the back of the ball. If you slide back away from the target in the backswing, this would come into view, so you know you are off the ball. Has given me a reference point to keep central, whilst i transfer my weight to my right instep in the backswing, with a full turn and without a slide. Im certainly no pro, but this lead to some of my best ever ball striking, in a very short space of time.

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  • YrrdeadYrrdead Better Living Through Chemistry Members  1643WRX Points: 154Handicap: 8.9Posts: 1,643 Platinum Tees
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    So I have a thought/feel for you. Stop thinking about your shoulders.
    Get deep into your right butt cheek. Where you feel a good stretch in your upper glute/piriformis.

    This will ensure that you are getting a good hip turn which in turn will help your shoulder turn. In addition it will clean up lateral movement as well.

    I do it as a kinda stretch all the time. In my case I was trying to reduce lateral shift but you are going to get a better rotation as well.

    Note this is an internal focus, so I never hit an actual golf shot on the course with this. It is a slow motion action that you can do anywhere, even while waiting to take your shot that will bleed into your action.

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  • juststevejuststeve Members  5184WRX Points: 546Posts: 5,184 Titanium Tees
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    What constitutes a full shoulder turn varies from person to person. Trying to turn your shoulders more than your flexibility allows will do more harm than good. Certainly it might do you some good to work on your overall fitness, including flexibility, but don't obsess on making some arbitrarily defined degree of shoulder turn.

    Steve

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  • mikpgamikpga www.mikedeitersgolf.com Members  7457WRX Points: 230Posts: 7,457 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 17, 2019 #6

    Keep your trail arm straight as long as possible...

    Allow your trail leg to straighten...

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    Post edited by mikpga on
  • hurley999shurley999s Members  748WRX Points: 362Posts: 748 Golden Tee
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    Agree with the previous suggestions and you’ll just have to try a few things to see what works for you. Since feels are different for everyone, one that’s helped me from time to time is to focus on the right shoulder. Before when I was too focused on the left, on video I saw the right was getting bunched up. So instead of focusing on left shoulder to right instep, try right shoulder over left heel (or as far back as you can go).

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  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
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    Thanks everyone. Got in front of the mirror and that right glute towards the target seems to be a good feel. I feel like I want to take the club way inside though. Maybe feel like I'm keeping the club a little further away from me or clubhead outside hands in takeaway to help?

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  • DShepleyDShepley Members  198WRX Points: 133Handicap: 2Posts: 198 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Apr 17, 2019 #9

    Bend your spine left and extend your spine as you turn into your right hip. The shoulder tilt is a function of converting your forward spine bend into left bend and extension. You can see how this works by standing straight up, (butt under shoulders), tilting your spine left as far as you can, then turning your hips so your back is facing the target (do this in front of a mirror and you will find yourself in a pretty decent top position). If your shoulders are turning flat, in my view, there is a good chance you are turning around your forward bend and not adding left tilt and extension. Take this with a grain of salt, as I'm not an instructor just an observer.

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  • xmanhockey7xmanhockey7 Members  344WRX Points: 88Posts: 344 Greens
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    I'd need to see video and a measuring system would be best. Generally I find people struggling to obtain a proper shoulder turn don't allow their hands to work inward enough in the backswing. Feel like the club is outside the hands is the opposite feel you need. Nothing wrong with the HANDS (not necessarily club) working inward in the backswing. Also allowing the right hip to move straight back (increase hip turn) will help increase shoulder turn.

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  • jut111jut111 Members  1759WRX Points: 341Posts: 1,759 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @DShepley said:

    Bend your spine left and extend your spine as you turn into your right hip. The shoulder tilt is a function of converting your forward spine bend into left bend and extension. You can see how this works by standing straight up, (butt under shoulders), tilting your spine left as far as you can, then turning your hips so your back is facing the target (do this in front of a mirror and you will find yourself in a pretty decent top position). If your shoulders are turning flat, in my view, there is a good chance you are turning around your forward bend and not adding left tilt and extension. Take this with a grain of salt, as I'm not an instructor just an observer.

    This. You’ve gotta learn how to turn, and rotation is only one component of that. From the description of your attempts your concept is poor.

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  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
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    On -, @DShepley said:

    Bend your spine left and extend your spine as you turn into your right hip. .

    thanks i knew i needed some extension but have struggled with how to achieve it. this really clicked for me feeling the extension into the spine leaning left. i get a really good turn i just need to apply it with a club in my hand.

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  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
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    I'm still struggling with this. I feel like I'm way off the ball and out of control when i get over a ball and do it. When I feel more centered and in control I'm still only getting 45 degrees maybe of shoulder turn I'm I hitting ok though. Frustrating

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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4107WRX Points: 710Posts: 4,107 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited May 8, 2019 #14

    Best drill I know for turn - as well as other things. Ryan explains in more depth, iteach's instagram is more visual.
    I think sternum not shoulders, except I do like sometimes feel my trail shoulder getting over the lead foot (it doesn't but it's just a feel to make sure you extend your thoracic spine).
    In essence side bend start much earlier in the takeaway than a lot of folks figure, you have to side bend to keep that stick against your side,
    it may feel way inside depending on what your are used to, stick needs to point between toes and ball line for a lot close to toes, go slowly,
    can hit balls as in iteach instagram but slowly or else you hit yourself on the side in the follow through - helps with flipping cause you would hit yourself
    in the side if you flip at release. Keeping the right arms straight goes along with this. Arms should do nothing - can't roll the forearms or the stick comes off your side too early. Will also let you go steep to shallow in the swing pattern.
    Can give feedback on setup too. I like to poke the stick into the grip end rather than hold it. 3/4 swings with it then a few without, repeat. I keep an old 7i around with a stick in it at home just for this.


    Another iteach instagram is a great drill also.
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  • insulininsulin Washington, DCMembers  74WRX Points: 77Handicap: 5.8Posts: 74 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited May 8, 2019 #15

    What works for me. (right handed golfer/ lefties reverse this)
    Drop your Trail foot back(right Foot) so the toe line of your shoe, lines up with your lead heel(left foot). Make full swings turning your body completely. It will feel as if you are completely behind the ball. Do not roll wrists or hook city. Just setup and make a full turn. Do not try to murder the ball just swing at a nice tempo and maintain balance. I swear half of golf is just resisting the urge to murder the **** ball.


    You can also try the flamingo drill which is a variation of this right foot back drill.

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  • rich_s2rich_s2 wisconsinMembers  1009WRX Points: 790Handicap: 1.6Posts: 1,009 Platinum Tees
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    I use Dan's straight arm drill when I start folding my right arm too much. But basically just don't fold your right arm and you have to turn.

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  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
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    Lots of great things to try thanks everyone

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  • GungHoGolfGungHoGolf Student of the Game Austin, TXMembers  956WRX Points: 123Posts: 956 Golden Tee
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    On -, @rich s said:

    I use Dan's straight arm drill when I start folding my right arm too much. But basically just don't fold your right arm and you have to turn.

    Great thread on that drill in case anyone missed it:

    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/791161/get-your-arm-swing-and-pivot-in-sync

    Posted:

    -Ron at GungHoGolf

  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
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    found this today and combined it with a little of dans drill and the thought of be3nding the spine left and extending and it had me looking better in the mirror. just needed to do lots of reps and hopefully put it together on the range later in the week

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  • mikpgamikpga www.mikedeitersgolf.com Members  7457WRX Points: 230Posts: 7,457 Titanium Tees
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    Keep your trail arm straight as long as possible...

    Allow your trail leg to straighten...

    Posted:
  • FireballerFireballer Members  499WRX Points: 122Posts: 499 Greens
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    Bobby Lopez 2 o'clock drill

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  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers  13773WRX Points: 2,624Handicap: 0.9 >< 3.8Posts: 13,773 Titanium Tees
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    Carl Lohren has a great book
    Move left shoulder forward to start swing

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  • ZitlowZitlow Members  603WRX Points: 206Posts: 603 Golden Tee
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    Forward press to kick start the motion and in one synchronized move; shift (rebound), tilt (LLB) and turn. Allow the momentum and inertia from this initial movement to wind and complete the back swing.

    Pro Tip: The body swings the arms and the hands swing the club.

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  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
    Joined:  edited Jun 12, 2019 #24

    update. hasnt gotten much better. worse with woods and probably the root of my overswing. : ( very frustrating. i feel like im feeling different but then go on video and its still pretty much the same. other weird thing is that im playing decent. got my handicap down from 13 to an 8 but i know if i want to make the next step its going to have to get fixed. will have to revisit some of these suggestions


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  • ZitlowZitlow Members  603WRX Points: 206Posts: 603 Golden Tee
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    Are those photos from actual swings?

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  • burritos4breakfastburritos4breakfast hawai'iMembers  325WRX Points: 109Posts: 325 Greens
    Joined:  edited Jun 12, 2019 #26

    On -, @Zitlow said:

    Are those photos from actual swings?

    yes freeze frames from the top of my backswing couple days ago. 3wood is the 1st pic. 7 iron the second. i think i want that left shoulder down and around over my right knee more right? instead im just turning that left shoulder down

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  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members  1257WRX Points: 231Handicap: 15Posts: 1,257 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 12, 2019 #27

    Once saw a junior golfer playing a very long track I was on. Part of his PSR was what looked like a loosening up swing. He'd take the club back wild hard, fast and out of control, then deliver it the same to follow through. Back and forth bouncing and lumbering up. Not a care to accuracy in the PSR, just a super full turn back and through and back again, using the momentum to help stretch.
    He was a teen, expectedly he hit it far for his age. I copied his PSR for awhile.
    It definitely helped loosen up the shoulders and get me turning. And assuming you don't pull your neck, it's harmless in terms of not developing any bad compensations with potential drilling problems.
    I've struggled with my turn as well. Have found planting on lead leg and using the rebound momentum to help get me moving back helps a good deal. And that is in this vane.

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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4107WRX Points: 710Posts: 4,107 Titanium Tees
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    Deeper hip turn .
    You look like this guy in the before.

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  • GirevikGirevik Thrifty Scott Members  888WRX Points: 168Posts: 888 Golden Tee
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    I'm having a similar issue. If I think about turning my hips, I think my shoulders stop at the same angle as my hips and I don't turn fully. If I think "shoulder turn" my hips don't move much. I'm having a very hard time keeping things in synch.

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  • jut111jut111 Members  1759WRX Points: 341Posts: 1,759 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Zitlow said:

    Are those photos from actual swings?

    yes freeze frames from the top of my backswing couple days ago. 3wood is the 1st pic. 7 iron the second. i think i want that left shoulder down and around over my right knee more right? instead im just turning that left shoulder down

    Thats half your problem, you're concept is off. You'd likely be better served trying to get your right shoulder over your left foot.
    not a typo.

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  • ZitlowZitlow Members  603WRX Points: 206Posts: 603 Golden Tee
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    update. hasnt gotten much better. worse with woods and probably the root of my overswing. : ( very frustrating. i feel like im feeling different but then go on video and its still pretty much the same. other weird thing is that im playing decent. got my handicap down from 13 to an 8 but i know if i want to make the next step its going to have to get fixed. will have to revisit some of these suggestions


    Looks like your feet and legs are set in concrete. A powerful golf swing is a dynamic motion like throwing a baseball.

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