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Angry parents effective coaches?

 CTgolf ·  
CTgolfCTgolf Banned  572WRX Points: 196Posts: 572 Golden Tee
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Dovetails from the other thread; research seems to suggest angry gets better results than positive....

https://www.studyfinds.org/for-coaches-anger-more-effective-than-positivity-when-it-comes-to-halftime-speeches/

Posted:
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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1919WRX Points: 1,305Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,919 Platinum Tees
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    From this year's Hard Knocks first day of training camp: "Everybody right now has dreams in the NFL. 'I have a dream of winning the Super Bowl... I have a dream of playing in the Pro Bowl.' I'm really not into dreams anymore... I'm into f .u .c .k .i .n' nightmares. You gotta end somebodies dream." - Jon Gruden

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3908WRX Points: 1,276Posts: 3,908 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @CTgolf said:

    Dovetails from the other thread; research seems to suggest angry gets better results than positive....

    https://www.studyfinds.org/for-coaches-anger-more-effective-than-positivity-when-it-comes-to-halftime-speeches/

    As a coach, I don't think that study is saying anything that effective coaches already knew.

    Posted:
  • Palmetto GolferPalmetto Golfer Members  169WRX Points: 109Posts: 169 Fairways
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    Very interesting but I would add one caveat. I coach football and basketball for middle school age kids. So, these are younger kids than the study so I am very careful how I craft my words to motivate. You have to know what your team needs. You read their body language b/c that will tell you a lot. I had two games back to back that taught me this lesson well.

    1) Boys were playing hard against a good team but the shots were not falling. At half time, I could see they were frustrated and panicking a bit. I just tried to calm them down. Said don't worry b/c you are playing great and the shots will fall. We went on to win the game.
    2) Next game we were playing a lesser team. Again, the shots were not falling but we were not playing with the same intensity as the previous game. We just look like we didn't care as much. At half time, I tried the same calming tactic. Told them the shots would fall and all is good. We lost the game. I didn't read my team correctly and should have been much more forceful at halftime.

    If you are yelling, screaming and tearing down a middle schooler...you are just an a$$hole. But, you can say things like "I know you are better than this". "I have seen you play better than this." "I expect more out of you than this". Say it forcefully to get their attention but you are not tearing them down in the process. I have seen coaches tearing down kids at this age and it is terrible watch. I think the study speaks to this well about taking it to far.

    Posted:
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members  418WRX Points: 319Handicap: 21Posts: 418 Greens
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    To be an effective coach you don't need to angry or positive. You just need to effective.
    I know my other half is always pissed that the kids listen to me. I remind her that that kids will eventually tune out someone they know will yell and scream.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3908WRX Points: 1,276Posts: 3,908 Titanium Tees
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    To be an effective coach you don't need to angry or positive. You just need to effective.
    I know my other half is always pissed that the kids listen to me. I remind her that that kids will eventually tune out someone they know will yell and scream.

    I think ANGER was the wrong word to use in that article.

    Posted:
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3908WRX Points: 1,276Posts: 3,908 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Palmetto Golfer said:

    Very interesting but I would add one caveat. I coach football and basketball for middle school age kids. So, these are younger kids than the study so I am very careful how I craft my words to motivate. You have to know what your team needs. You read their body language b/c that will tell you a lot. I had two games back to back that taught me this lesson well.

    1) Boys were playing hard against a good team but the shots were not falling. At half time, I could see they were frustrated and panicking a bit. I just tried to calm them down. Said don't worry b/c you are playing great and the shots will fall. We went on to win the game.
    2) Next game we were playing a lesser team. Again, the shots were not falling but we were not playing with the same intensity as the previous game. We just look like we didn't care as much. At half time, I tried the same calming tactic. Told them the shots would fall and all is good. We lost the game. I didn't read my team correctly and should have been much more forceful at halftime.

    If you are yelling, screaming and tearing down a middle schooler...you are just an a$$hole. But, you can say things like "I know you are better than this". "I have seen you play better than this." "I expect more out of you than this". Say it forcefully to get their attention but you are not tearing them down in the process. I have seen coaches tearing down kids at this age and it is terrible watch. I think the study speaks to this well about taking it to far.

    You have to know the kids and be prepared for the situation.

    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

    Posted:
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  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members  418WRX Points: 319Handicap: 21Posts: 418 Greens
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    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

    Amen. If I say something. "You were yelling at me." Like trust me you will know when Im yelling.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3908WRX Points: 1,276Posts: 3,908 Titanium Tees
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    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

    Amen. If I say something. "You were yelling at me." Like trust me you will know when Im yelling.

    That ended with both of my kids when I went on an Ef bomb tirade to prove a point. They then understood what yelling at someone was.

    Posted:
  • BaitkillerBaitkiller Members  1847WRX Points: 230Handicap: YesPosts: 1,847 Platinum Tees
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    Well boys, that was a suck fest. Your gonna run till you puke.. then your gonna run some more.
    My high school football coach.

    Posted:
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  • BertGABertGA Members  360WRX Points: 130Posts: 360 Greens
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    On -, @Baitkiller said:

    Well boys, that was a suck fest. Your gonna run till you puke.. then your gonna run some more.
    My high school football coach.

    Yeah....gut checks....

    Posted:
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members  418WRX Points: 319Handicap: 21Posts: 418 Greens
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    That ended with both of my kids when I went on an Ef bomb tirade to prove a point. They then understood what yelling at someone was.

    Son was playing forenite one evening. I came downstairs to ask a question. My oldest was watching TV. I asked my son playing something specific to him. He blew me off. I spent the next 5 minutes cussing him out up and down. I went back upstairs. My wife was on edge. She was like I haven't heard you talk like that in 10-15 years. I said he disrespected me in my house. I was just chopping him back to size.

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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1919WRX Points: 1,305Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,919 Platinum Tees
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    I learned about a player that grew up playing golf with a very strict dad that really ground on his kid. Kid would shoot great scores but Dad wouldn't mention any of the great shots and only focus on the one bad shot. He went to a top D1 school and is now on tour.

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1919WRX Points: 1,305Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,919 Platinum Tees
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    Not golf related but an interesting perspective on the father son relationship between Barry and William Sanders: A Football Life Barry Sanders

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • DpavsDpavs OverWRX'ed MichiganClubWRX  4037WRX Points: 701Posts: 4,037 ClubWRX
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    On -, @CTgolf said:

    Dovetails from the other thread; research seems to suggest angry gets better results than positive....

    https://www.studyfinds.org/for-coaches-anger-more-effective-than-positivity-when-it-comes-to-halftime-speeches/

    If you read the entire article that is not at all what is being suggested. The article expressed that some research was done which showed that negativity regarding first half performance in the very narrow context of the halftime speech lead to higher scores in the second half. That's a far cry from stating anger is a better way to be an effective coach.

    From the article linked -
    "The research indicated that while negative halftime speeches led to higher scores in the second half, there is, of course, a point where all of that negativity begins to bring the team down. Whenever coaches displayed “extreme” bouts of anger, frustration, and negativity, it ended up hurting their players’ performances. " and "Staw and his team say that they believe negative emotion can be a more effective motivator than many currently believe. ........At the end of the day, though, Staw also cautions against acting negatively all the time towards someone you may be trying to motivate." (from the article by Ben Renner)

    Posted:
  • Tannerbug33Tannerbug33 Members  175WRX Points: 87Posts: 175 Fairways
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    Well this weekend we played our 9 hole local tour and my son was on a par 5 in 2. 9 foot above the hole pretty straight and ends up paring it. And as normal caddy I say it's ok theres more opportunities out there we'll get some.
    He gets angry and says don't say that. Next hole bad approach shot ends up single Boogie. He walks up and hands me his putter, I look at him and say that sucks and he looks at me and says yeah.
    So evedently I have been to nice to him.

    Posted:
  • DpavsDpavs OverWRX'ed MichiganClubWRX  4037WRX Points: 701Posts: 4,037 ClubWRX
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    I'm no psychologist but I don't think that scenario has anything to do with being nice or not being nice. To me, in the one case you were being sympathetic and attempting to pacify his anger, in the other you were empathizing with him, acknowledging that's it's ok to feel upset about not doing something well, and allowing him to understand you knew how he felt about what happened.
    Just another way of thinking about that kind of exchange perhaps?

    Posted:
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  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX  9411WRX Points: 896Handicap: 4-20Posts: 9,411 ClubWRX
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    This reminds me of a situation at the range this weekend at the Palm Spring Regional. My son is hitting balls next to an 8-9 yr old girl and all I hear is the dad/grandpa yelling at the girl and she keeps crying. I mean giving advice is one thing, but I want to yack when 99.9% of the advice is flat out wrong. The worst part was the crying and fact that it could of been her Grandpa dishing out the BS. This was going on for about 15 months until they finally packed it up and left. I really wanted to say something, but for the most part, I've found that minding my own business is the best course of action unless things are getting really out of hand. It just seems like a lot of people are on edge when it comes to Junior golf and tournament play. I actually have a vid of it, but probably won't post it for privacy reasons.

    Posted:
  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members  418WRX Points: 319Handicap: 21Posts: 418 Greens
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    On -, @kekoa said:

    This reminds me of a situation at the range this weekend at the Palm Spring Regional. My son is hitting balls next to an 8-9 yr old girl and all I hear is the dad/grandpa yelling at the girl and she keeps crying. I mean giving advice is one thing, but I want to yack when 99.9% of the advice is flat out wrong. The worst part was the crying and fact that it could of been her Grandpa dishing out the BS. This was going on for about 15 months until they finally packed it up and left. I really wanted to say something, but for the most part, I've found that minding my own business is the best course of action unless things are getting really out of hand. It just seems like a lot of people are on edge when it comes to Junior golf and tournament play. I actually have a vid of it, but probably won't post it for privacy reasons.

    You might have been able to say something before cellphones. In the present times you have to be careful. The wife or grandma will pull out the camera and give the narrative that this stranger is harassing my husband. It's upset my whole family.

    I was in the same boat last weekend. Club had two course but one range. On the range there was a US Kids. I mean parents just lined up with there kids shouting instructions.

    Told my daughter I wasn't going to warm up with all kids there, but she could hit some balls and then us go play on the other course.
    One dad was screaming at his child. The kid had his mom, brother, and sister watching. This was on the range. The kid would hit one thin, then bomb one, then hit it fat. The Dad grabs him by the face and screams at him (F bombs). The mom doesn't say a word. This is upsetting me and my daughter. We cut it short and go to the pro shop. Told the head pro there is a dad verbally abusing his child on the range. I didn't want to say something and then we start fighting while the mom records us. Then we are on the local news as the video goes virtual.

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  • zachpokerzachpoker Members  20WRX Points: 33Handicap: 19Posts: 20 Bunkers
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    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

    Amen. If I say something. "You were yelling at me." Like trust me you will know when Im yelling.

    +1.

    Posted:
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21795WRX Points: 5,791Posts: 21,795 ClubWRX
    Joined:  edited Oct 4, 2019 #22

    "Study" is complete BS.

    And whether basketball halftime speeches are "angry" or whatever tone they are claiming crosses some subjective line, that has absolutely nothing to do with regular coaching at practices and games, so much of which has to do with reaching individual players.

    Study is so subjective in its "definitions" and from the descriptions in the article it is more of a self-fulfilling prophecy, lol. HaHa, wait a minute the "anger" can go too far, lol.

    Way too many other variables.

    Nonsense AND nothing to do with golf at all, really - no halftime, lol.

    Posted:
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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1919WRX Points: 1,305Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,919 Platinum Tees
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    Sounds like from this article that AK and his dad had a rough go at it for a while. To the point where they didn't speak for two years.

    Who is Anthony Kim?

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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