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Angry parents effective coaches?

CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 505 ✭✭✭✭✭

Dovetails from the other thread; research seems to suggest angry gets better results than positive....

https://www.studyfinds.org/for-coaches-anger-more-effective-than-positivity-when-it-comes-to-halftime-speeches/

Comments

  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 20, 2019 12:08am #2

    From this year's Hard Knocks first day of training camp: "Everybody right now has dreams in the NFL. 'I have a dream of winning the Super Bowl... I have a dream of playing in the Pro Bowl.' I'm really not into dreams anymore... I'm into f .u .c .k .i .n' nightmares. You gotta end somebodies dream." - Jon Gruden

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @CTgolf said:
    Dovetails from the other thread; research seems to suggest angry gets better results than positive....

    https://www.studyfinds.org/for-coaches-anger-more-effective-than-positivity-when-it-comes-to-halftime-speeches/

    As a coach, I don't think that study is saying anything that effective coaches already knew.

  • Palmetto GolferPalmetto Golfer Members Posts: 165 ✭✭✭

    Very interesting but I would add one caveat. I coach football and basketball for middle school age kids. So, these are younger kids than the study so I am very careful how I craft my words to motivate. You have to know what your team needs. You read their body language b/c that will tell you a lot. I had two games back to back that taught me this lesson well.

    1) Boys were playing hard against a good team but the shots were not falling. At half time, I could see they were frustrated and panicking a bit. I just tried to calm them down. Said don't worry b/c you are playing great and the shots will fall. We went on to win the game.
    2) Next game we were playing a lesser team. Again, the shots were not falling but we were not playing with the same intensity as the previous game. We just look like we didn't care as much. At half time, I tried the same calming tactic. Told them the shots would fall and all is good. We lost the game. I didn't read my team correctly and should have been much more forceful at halftime.

    If you are yelling, screaming and tearing down a middle schooler...you are just an a$$hole. But, you can say things like "I know you are better than this". "I have seen you play better than this." "I expect more out of you than this". Say it forcefully to get their attention but you are not tearing them down in the process. I have seen coaches tearing down kids at this age and it is terrible watch. I think the study speaks to this well about taking it to far.

  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭

    To be an effective coach you don't need to angry or positive. You just need to effective.
    I know my other half is always pissed that the kids listen to me. I remind her that that kids will eventually tune out someone they know will yell and scream.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:
    To be an effective coach you don't need to angry or positive. You just need to effective.
    I know my other half is always pissed that the kids listen to me. I remind her that that kids will eventually tune out someone they know will yell and scream.

    I think ANGER was the wrong word to use in that article.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Palmetto Golfer said:
    Very interesting but I would add one caveat. I coach football and basketball for middle school age kids. So, these are younger kids than the study so I am very careful how I craft my words to motivate. You have to know what your team needs. You read their body language b/c that will tell you a lot. I had two games back to back that taught me this lesson well.

    1) Boys were playing hard against a good team but the shots were not falling. At half time, I could see they were frustrated and panicking a bit. I just tried to calm them down. Said don't worry b/c you are playing great and the shots will fall. We went on to win the game.
    2) Next game we were playing a lesser team. Again, the shots were not falling but we were not playing with the same intensity as the previous game. We just look like we didn't care as much. At half time, I tried the same calming tactic. Told them the shots would fall and all is good. We lost the game. I didn't read my team correctly and should have been much more forceful at halftime.

    If you are yelling, screaming and tearing down a middle schooler...you are just an a$$hole. But, you can say things like "I know you are better than this". "I have seen you play better than this." "I expect more out of you than this". Say it forcefully to get their attention but you are not tearing them down in the process. I have seen coaches tearing down kids at this age and it is terrible watch. I think the study speaks to this well about taking it to far.

    You have to know the kids and be prepared for the situation.

    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭

    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

    Amen. If I say something. "You were yelling at me." Like trust me you will know when Im yelling.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:

    Kids are different today as well. I think the majority of kids are soft, including my own. I honestly don't understand it. They think critiquing or criticizing is yelling at them. Different world than I am used to when I was coaching high school hoops and football 15 years ago.

    Amen. If I say something. "You were yelling at me." Like trust me you will know when Im yelling.

    That ended with both of my kids when I went on an Ef bomb tirade to prove a point. They then understood what yelling at someone was.

  • BaitkillerBaitkiller Members Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Well boys, that was a suck fest. Your gonna run till you puke.. then your gonna run some more.
    My high school football coach.

    Turn over damnit!
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  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 344 ✭✭✭✭

    @Baitkiller said:
    Well boys, that was a suck fest. Your gonna run till you puke.. then your gonna run some more.
    My high school football coach.

    Yeah....gut checks....

  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭

    That ended with both of my kids when I went on an Ef bomb tirade to prove a point. They then understood what yelling at someone was.

    Son was playing forenite one evening. I came downstairs to ask a question. My oldest was watching TV. I asked my son playing something specific to him. He blew me off. I spent the next 5 minutes cussing him out up and down. I went back upstairs. My wife was on edge. She was like I haven't heard you talk like that in 10-15 years. I said he disrespected me in my house. I was just chopping him back to size.

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  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I learned about a player that grew up playing golf with a very strict dad that really ground on his kid. Kid would shoot great scores but Dad wouldn't mention any of the great shots and only focus on the one bad shot. He went to a top D1 school and is now on tour.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 505 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leezer99 said:
    I learned about a player that grew up playing golf with a very strict dad that really ground on his kid. Kid would shoot great scores but Dad wouldn't mention any of the great shots and only focus on the one bad shot. He went to a top D1 school and is now on tour.

    “Let the kids be kids”

    • Parent of non-PGA Tour Pro
  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Not golf related but an interesting perspective on the father son relationship between Barry and William Sanders: A Football Life Barry Sanders

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • DpavsDpavs OverWRX'ed Members Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @CTgolf said:
    Dovetails from the other thread; research seems to suggest angry gets better results than positive....

    https://www.studyfinds.org/for-coaches-anger-more-effective-than-positivity-when-it-comes-to-halftime-speeches/

    If you read the entire article that is not at all what is being suggested. The article expressed that some research was done which showed that negativity regarding first half performance in the very narrow context of the halftime speech lead to higher scores in the second half. That's a far cry from stating anger is a better way to be an effective coach.

    From the article linked -
    "The research indicated that while negative halftime speeches led to higher scores in the second half, there is, of course, a point where all of that negativity begins to bring the team down. Whenever coaches displayed “extreme” bouts of anger, frustration, and negativity, it ended up hurting their players’ performances. " and "Staw and his team say that they believe negative emotion can be a more effective motivator than many currently believe. ........At the end of the day, though, Staw also cautions against acting negatively all the time towards someone you may be trying to motivate." (from the article by Ben Renner)

  • Tannerbug33Tannerbug33 Members Posts: 141 ✭✭✭

    Well this weekend we played our 9 hole local tour and my son was on a par 5 in 2. 9 foot above the hole pretty straight and ends up paring it. And as normal caddy I say it's ok theres more opportunities out there we'll get some.
    He gets angry and says don't say that. Next hole bad approach shot ends up single Boogie. He walks up and hands me his putter, I look at him and say that sucks and he looks at me and says yeah.
    So evedently I have been to nice to him.

  • DpavsDpavs OverWRX'ed Members Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm no psychologist but I don't think that scenario has anything to do with being nice or not being nice. To me, in the one case you were being sympathetic and attempting to pacify his anger, in the other you were empathizing with him, acknowledging that's it's ok to feel upset about not doing something well, and allowing him to understand you knew how he felt about what happened.
    Just another way of thinking about that kind of exchange perhaps?

  • mbh922mbh922 Members Posts: 9 ✭✭

    Research or not, I’ll always continue to stay positive and encouraging. In the end, I want a healthy relationship with my kids that extends far beyond golf / sports.

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