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What is it like to play golf in college?

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  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @CTgolf said:
    So 28 hours a week just between practice/play/qualifying rounds/team workouts? When is there any time to study or socialize?

    Seems like a bad setup for anyone who cares about having a real career.

    The NCAA only allows 20 hours a week in season, with one day off a week and no more than 4 hours a day. In those 20 hours you have to count workouts, practice, team functions and qualifiers. So, basically 3 workouts of 1 hour (=3hours), 3 times 18 holes (=12hours), 2 practice sessions of 2 hours (=4hours) and 1hour left for a team function (for a total of 20hours).

    You only have to count workouts if the coach is there supervising. Also, if you are qualifying and it takes 5 hours to play the round, the coach only has to count that as 3 hours of practice.

    You are correct, you only have to count the mandatory team workouts, any voluntary practice does not count toward the 20 hours a week.
    For the 5 hours qualifiers rounds, they have to be reported in the 20 hours a week. I am not saying all coaches count them but it is a NCAA rule to do so. Only competition rounds or competition practice rounds count as 3 hours max per NCAA legislation.
    There is a fine line between voluntary and mandatory practice, but the new NCAA Time Management Plan (TMP) is here to help regulate those 20 hours a week of mandatory practice.

    Just read a bit on the TMP and with golf at least it seems like there is some known skirting of the rules if the team has an expectation to participate in mandatory practices and participate in non-mandatory practice rounds which can take 4-5 hours each. What are your thoughts on knowing a team is already meeting their max mandatory hours but then also exceeding it by simply playing.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @leezer99 said:

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @CTgolf said:
    So 28 hours a week just between practice/play/qualifying rounds/team workouts? When is there any time to study or socialize?

    Seems like a bad setup for anyone who cares about having a real career.

    The NCAA only allows 20 hours a week in season, with one day off a week and no more than 4 hours a day. In those 20 hours you have to count workouts, practice, team functions and qualifiers. So, basically 3 workouts of 1 hour (=3hours), 3 times 18 holes (=12hours), 2 practice sessions of 2 hours (=4hours) and 1hour left for a team function (for a total of 20hours).

    You only have to count workouts if the coach is there supervising. Also, if you are qualifying and it takes 5 hours to play the round, the coach only has to count that as 3 hours of practice.

    You are correct, you only have to count the mandatory team workouts, any voluntary practice does not count toward the 20 hours a week.
    For the 5 hours qualifiers rounds, they have to be reported in the 20 hours a week. I am not saying all coaches count them but it is a NCAA rule to do so. Only competition rounds or competition practice rounds count as 3 hours max per NCAA legislation.
    There is a fine line between voluntary and mandatory practice, but the new NCAA Time Management Plan (TMP) is here to help regulate those 20 hours a week of mandatory practice.

    Just read a bit on the TMP and with golf at least it seems like there is some known skirting of the rules if the team has an expectation to participate in mandatory practices and participate in non-mandatory practice rounds which can take 4-5 hours each. What are your thoughts on knowing a team is already meeting their max mandatory hours but then also exceeding it by simply playing.

    I will tell you that golf life is brutal in college. Each player on my daughters team is also expected to do mandatory (cough cough voluntary) 10 hours of community service each semester. There is definitely skirting of the rules going on at a lot of the universities. My daughter told me yesterday they have already met 16 hours of time yesterday. Friday and Saturday is voluntary, but mandatory and the coach won't be there.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @CTgolf said:
    So 28 hours a week just between practice/play/qualifying rounds/team workouts? When is there any time to study or socialize?

    Seems like a bad setup for anyone who cares about having a real career.

    This doesn't include the hours they spend with their swing coach during the week either.

    Honestly though, my son easily spends more than 25 hours per week practicing and he is in high school. That 25 hours doesn't include the time he spends working our either.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living an income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

  • admorkadmork Orlando, FlMembers Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living an income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    Very interesting, I share most of your points.
    As a coach I feel like it is for the benefit of the competition to bring golfers from all around the world to play College Golf. That tougher competition will make everyone better and will help kids to prepare for the next level.
    I understand your last point but would it mean that only private institutions could offer scholarships to foreigners?

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    Very interesting, I share most of your points.
    As a coach I feel like it is for the benefit of the competition to bring golfers from all around the world to play College Golf. That tougher competition will make everyone better and will help kids to prepare for the next level.
    I understand your last point but would it mean that only private institutions could offer scholarships to foreigners?

    Honestly, don't know. Haven't thought that far through it. It would have to be an all or nothing for all Universities private and public. Since state and federal government fund academics and athletics at public universities, I don't think a scholarship should be funded for international students. My opinion, and it will never happen.

  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    Very interesting, I share most of your points.
    As a coach I feel like it is for the benefit of the competition to bring golfers from all around the world to play College Golf. That tougher competition will make everyone better and will help kids to prepare for the next level.
    I understand your last point but would it mean that only private institutions could offer scholarships to foreigners?

    Honestly, don't know. Haven't thought that far through it. It would have to be an all or nothing for all Universities private and public. Since state and federal government fund academics and athletics at public universities, I don't think a scholarship should be funded for international students. My opinion, and it will never happen.

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    Very interesting, I share most of your points.
    As a coach I feel like it is for the benefit of the competition to bring golfers from all around the world to play College Golf. That tougher competition will make everyone better and will help kids to prepare for the next level.
    I understand your last point but would it mean that only private institutions could offer scholarships to foreigners?

    Honestly, don't know. Haven't thought that far through it. It would have to be an all or nothing for all Universities private and public. Since state and federal government fund academics and athletics at public universities, I don't think a scholarship should be funded for international students. My opinion, and it will never happen.

    The NCAA makes most of its money off of Men's Basketball because of March Madness TV rights, etc. but at the college level football is still numero uno for revenue generation. College football makes more on average than the other 35 sports combined with an average of $35m per year versus basketball that will average about $8m per year. Around 25 schools made more than $100m off of their athletics last year with University of Texas leading the way at ~$180m. If you look at the highest paid public employees in each state it's pretty much your top tier college football coaches taking the top spot. In 31 of the 50 states a college football coach is the highest paid public employee followed by 8 states where the basketball coach is the top paid public employee. In my state the top college football coach makes $11m while the governor makes just over $100,000.

    The international component is interesting because golf truly is a global game and you do want these kids playing against the best the world has to offer. I too don't have an answer to the perceived problem of offering state and federal money to an international student but it is something that should be discussed. Would we have Hovland, Luke Donald, Graeme McDowell or any of the up and comers if they hadn't received a scholarship to go to a university in the US?

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    yea, its crazy what some of these coach's make and their career is based on how well the kids perform so that is were there is a disconnect. If I was on one of those teams, I'm not sure how I would feel with my coach making millions based off my playing.

  • dmecca2dmecca2 Scranton, PAMembers Posts: 80 ✭✭✭

    I played at a low level D1 school for 4 years and played in every tournament after my first semester. We were ranked just above 200th and cracked the 200 mark only a couple of times. I can tell you our schedule was very very different than what leezer described, but none of my team had a full scholarship, only partials. I was an engineering major and my schedule was packed. We had official practices every tuesday and thursday and you could not schedule classes for those times. Outside of those days it was up to you to get practice time in (although not mandatory, I was captain and i pushed to have everyone at least hit balls or putt every day).

    As far as classes go, I did have to drop out of several classes and retake them over summer. It just wasnt feasible to miss up to 6 classes of Calc 3 a semester and expect to pass the class. For every tournament you were guaranteed to miss one day of school. There's a practice round, then two days of competing. Sometimes schools would schedule the tournaments so that you would miss two days of school. I had a couple of professors that gave me a difficult time for missing so many classes, but my athletic adviser helped me talk to them. I ended up taking an extra semester to finish my degree, along with summer classes every year. As an engineer there were many classes only offered on tuesday and thursday nights and I had to put them off until the final semester.

    As for tournament qualifying, our coach's policy was that the top 2 or 3 players from each event would be exempt into the next tournament. The other 2 or 3 would have to compete during the week to qualify. While this was great for myself and 1 other player that consistently were the top 2 players each week, this was not always the best system for everyone else. While we were able to utilize our 2 practice days to work on our games, the players that most needed to work on their games were stuck in often intense matches to try and travel that weekend. Unfortunately, with only a limited number of play days, this was the best system.

    Overall, I loved my years as a college golfer. I played a lot of beautiful courses, met a lot of amazing people, and improved an incredible amount.

  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dmecca2 said:
    I played at a low level D1 school for 4 years and played in every tournament after my first semester. We were ranked just above 200th and cracked the 200 mark only a couple of times. I can tell you our schedule was very very different than what leezer described, but none of my team had a full scholarship, only partials. I was an engineering major and my schedule was packed. We had official practices every tuesday and thursday and you could not schedule classes for those times. Outside of those days it was up to you to get practice time in (although not mandatory, I was captain and i pushed to have everyone at least hit balls or putt every day).

    As far as classes go, I did have to drop out of several classes and retake them over summer. It just wasnt feasible to miss up to 6 classes of Calc 3 a semester and expect to pass the class. For every tournament you were guaranteed to miss one day of school. There's a practice round, then two days of competing. Sometimes schools would schedule the tournaments so that you would miss two days of school. I had a couple of professors that gave me a difficult time for missing so many classes, but my athletic adviser helped me talk to them. I ended up taking an extra semester to finish my degree, along with summer classes every year. As an engineer there were many classes only offered on tuesday and thursday nights and I had to put them off until the final semester.

    As for tournament qualifying, our coach's policy was that the top 2 or 3 players from each event would be exempt into the next tournament. The other 2 or 3 would have to compete during the week to qualify. While this was great for myself and 1 other player that consistently were the top 2 players each week, this was not always the best system for everyone else. While we were able to utilize our 2 practice days to work on our games, the players that most needed to work on their games were stuck in often intense matches to try and travel that weekend. Unfortunately, with only a limited number of play days, this was the best system.

    Overall, I loved my years as a college golfer. I played a lot of beautiful courses, met a lot of amazing people, and improved an incredible amount.

    And now you sell paper at Dunder Mifflin?

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • dmecca2dmecca2 Scranton, PAMembers Posts: 80 ✭✭✭

    @leezer99 said:

    @dmecca2 said:
    I played at a low level D1 school for 4 years and played in every tournament after my first semester. We were ranked just above 200th and cracked the 200 mark only a couple of times. I can tell you our schedule was very very different than what leezer described, but none of my team had a full scholarship, only partials. I was an engineering major and my schedule was packed. We had official practices every tuesday and thursday and you could not schedule classes for those times. Outside of those days it was up to you to get practice time in (although not mandatory, I was captain and i pushed to have everyone at least hit balls or putt every day).

    As far as classes go, I did have to drop out of several classes and retake them over summer. It just wasnt feasible to miss up to 6 classes of Calc 3 a semester and expect to pass the class. For every tournament you were guaranteed to miss one day of school. There's a practice round, then two days of competing. Sometimes schools would schedule the tournaments so that you would miss two days of school. I had a couple of professors that gave me a difficult time for missing so many classes, but my athletic adviser helped me talk to them. I ended up taking an extra semester to finish my degree, along with summer classes every year. As an engineer there were many classes only offered on tuesday and thursday nights and I had to put them off until the final semester.

    As for tournament qualifying, our coach's policy was that the top 2 or 3 players from each event would be exempt into the next tournament. The other 2 or 3 would have to compete during the week to qualify. While this was great for myself and 1 other player that consistently were the top 2 players each week, this was not always the best system for everyone else. While we were able to utilize our 2 practice days to work on our games, the players that most needed to work on their games were stuck in often intense matches to try and travel that weekend. Unfortunately, with only a limited number of play days, this was the best system.

    Overall, I loved my years as a college golfer. I played a lot of beautiful courses, met a lot of amazing people, and improved an incredible amount.

    And now you sell paper at Dunder Mifflin?

    I tried interviewing for Michael Scott's position but when they narrowed the search down they chose the finger lakes guy over me.

  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    100% agree. I believe most feel the same way, but just won't say it. Sure we won't have the Victor's of the world maybe. Huge Victor fan btw.
    For every Victor there is what another 100 other kids taking up scholarship money. If it's a private school then its their dime. Mainstream doesn't care cause its golf.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 30, 2019 2:08pm #44

    @leezer99 said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    Very interesting, I share most of your points.
    As a coach I feel like it is for the benefit of the competition to bring golfers from all around the world to play College Golf. That tougher competition will make everyone better and will help kids to prepare for the next level.
    I understand your last point but would it mean that only private institutions could offer scholarships to foreigners?

    Honestly, don't know. Haven't thought that far through it. It would have to be an all or nothing for all Universities private and public. Since state and federal government fund academics and athletics at public universities, I don't think a scholarship should be funded for international students. My opinion, and it will never happen.

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @admork said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:

    @leezer99 said:

    @Redjeep83 said:
    good luck getting all your classes to be in the 9-noon range

    If you have an athletic academic adviser that is worth anything they can make this happen. With a few exceptions these kids aren't taking advanced courses that only have one lecture in the afternoon.

    early in college years it's easier as you get in more advanced classes you run into situations where it's only offered at after 1pm in some cases. Just my opinion but unless I was planning on going pro, I would put more time into study than 5 hours of practice a day.

    I won't get into the whole NCAA athletes should get paid debate but if you're there on scholarship and want to keep it then you put in the work they say to put in.

    It is an interesting debate. What are your thoughts on Student Athletes getting paid?
    I feel like College golf might disapear if they start paying College Athletes.

    I go back and forth on it.

    NCAA, the big conferences, and schools make a ton of money off these kids. Not in sports like golf, but they do for football and basketball through TV revenue. I think every athlete should get something because the Universities own them while they are there. Each kid in a head count sport is getting a free $80,000.00 4 year education. They also get use of facilities, free tutors, free meals, free room and board, free insurance, free healthcare while there, free trainers, free doctors, and the list goes on and on. When said and done they are getting well over $150,000.00 in free education, benefits, and services. Too many people don't see that end of it. Many kids coming from a poor background can't work to pick up extra income. They need at least 5 grand a year for clothes and other items. I don't believe that each athlete should get paid a living income, they are already getting a lot.

    With that said, with the big time athletics in D1, I think that every sport should be a head count sport and every kid should receive a full ride. If a school can't afford to fully fund all the sports they offer, they need not be a D1 school. Sports like golf bring in Zero revenue for a school. It is a complete loss for the University, but these kids put in more hours per week on their craft than football and basketball players.

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    Very interesting, I share most of your points.
    As a coach I feel like it is for the benefit of the competition to bring golfers from all around the world to play College Golf. That tougher competition will make everyone better and will help kids to prepare for the next level.
    I understand your last point but would it mean that only private institutions could offer scholarships to foreigners?

    Honestly, don't know. Haven't thought that far through it. It would have to be an all or nothing for all Universities private and public. Since state and federal government fund academics and athletics at public universities, I don't think a scholarship should be funded for international students. My opinion, and it will never happen.

    The NCAA makes most of its money off of Men's Basketball because of March Madness TV rights, etc. but at the college level football is still numero uno for revenue generation. College football makes more on average than the other 35 sports combined with an average of $35m per year versus basketball that will average about $8m per year. Around 25 schools made more than $100m off of their athletics last year with University of Texas leading the way at ~$180m. If you look at the highest paid public employees in each state it's pretty much your top tier college football coaches taking the top spot. In 31 of the 50 states a college football coach is the highest paid public employee followed by 8 states where the basketball coach is the top paid public employee. In my state the top college football coach makes $11m while the governor makes just over $100,000.

    The international component is interesting because golf truly is a global game and you do want these kids playing against the best the world has to offer. I too don't have an answer to the perceived problem of offering state and federal money to an international student but it is something that should be discussed. Would we have Hovland, Luke Donald, Graeme McDowell or any of the up and comers if they hadn't received a scholarship to go to a university in the US?

    Look at it from this aspect and take golf out of the equation. Our colleges and universities in the states are training some of these athletes to go home then play and compete against the USA in the Olympics and other World games. Our tax dollars are helping them do it. It is absolutely insane. If they want to come to the US and go to college I am all for it, but it should be on their own dime.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 30, 2019 2:18pm #45

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    100% agree. I believe most feel the same way, but just won't say it. Sure we won't have the Victor's of the world maybe. Huge Victor fan btw.
    For every Victor there is what another 100 other kids taking up scholarship money. If it's a private school then its their dime. Mainstream doesn't care cause its golf.

    There isn't much I am afraid to say and in this case, someone needs to say it.

    The biggest problem with the Ladies game in the states are the lack of Home Grown Stars. No one cares about the LPGA because no one knows the names playing. Stop giving internationals scholarships and train our own. LPGA would be more popular in the US with more Americans playing. It honestly wouldn't matter if the scores were worse. The LPGA has no personality to attract viewers in the state.

    Too many college coaches spend time recruiting internationally rather than recruiting in their own back yards. It is honestly sickening that they are spending money to allow the coaches to fly over seas and recruit these players. It is a big waste of funds that could be spent elsewhere. Then they are spending state and federal dollars to help pay for them to be on campus. I don't mind helping little Johnny in the neighboring state. I do mind Giorgia from Italy. It just isn't golf either. It is every sport a college offers other than Football.

  • admorkadmork Orlando, FlMembers Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    100% agree. I believe most feel the same way, but just won't say it. Sure we won't have the Victor's of the world maybe. Huge Victor fan btw.
    For every Victor there is what another 100 other kids taking up scholarship money. If it's a private school then its their dime. Mainstream doesn't care cause its golf.

    Pretty ironic because Norway actually paid for Viktor's Education at OSU.

  • admorkadmork Orlando, FlMembers Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    Look at it from this aspect and take golf out of the equation. Our colleges and universities in the states are training some of these athletes to go home then play and compete against the USA in the Olympics and other World games. Our tax dollars are helping them do it. It is absolutely insane. If they want to come to the US and go to college I am all for it, but it should be on their own dime.

    Most of athletic departments are funded with less than 5% of government money. For example, in the Big 12 Conference, there is only one school that receive government funds for its athletic department, and it only represents 2% of its whole budget.
    Fundings come from NCAA distributions, ticket sales, donations, sponsorships and students fees. So, the international golfers are not funded by government money.
    On another note, I was an international college golfer on scholarship and I embrace the US College Athletic system, without a doubt the best in the world. I think the NCAA is the best way to train kids to become professional athletes. The process is not easy but the experience is extremely rewarding.

  • ethanshapiroethanshapiro grinder Members Posts: 619 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kekoa said:
    Interested.
    Isn't it important to specify the level of program as well? I'd assume a D3 program and schedule differs vastly from a top tier D1?

    As someone currently playing D3 at a serious program, I basically have school and golf all day long and any free time is basically only due to not qualifying for a tournament and/or completing all your individual practice, team practice, AND especially taking care of any and all academic obligations

    TaylorMade M5 9.0 Tensei CK 65g S
    Callaway Rogue 15' Rexis 65g S
    Titleist 818 H2 20' Fujikura Atmos 85g S
    PXG 0311X Accra 80i M4
    Titleist 716 CB KBS Tour 90S 5-PW
    Titleist Vokey SM7 Raw 50F
    Titleist Vokey SM7 Raw 54M
    Titleist Vokey SM7 Raw 60L
    Scotty Cameron Newport 2 2014
  • sgersten19sgersten19 Members Posts: 15 ✭✭

    Played 4 years at a low level d1 school with a decent academic reputation. Double majored in math and econ.
    I would echo most comments here and emphasize the time/stress for "qualifying". Luckily didn't need to do that too often.
    Also emphasize how much class you miss. Take a simple 36 hole tourney on a weekend (many were 54 holes). That means practice round Friday which means leaving Thursday and maybe missing Monday to get back only to do the same next weekend.

  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @sgersten19
    How many matches was your school playing during the school year?

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • sgersten19sgersten19 Members Posts: 15 ✭✭

    @leezer99 said:
    @sgersten19
    How many matches was your school playing during the school year?

    Between 5-6 in both the fall and spring with a 7-10 day spring break trip (which were the best). Also our school usually had the 1st event of the fall which was nice.

    Most travel was in the spring since the school was in the Northeast and most tourneys had to be more south due to weather.

  • evanleeballevanleeball Members Posts: 491 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 4, 2019 3:31pm #52

    I played NAIA. Team was always ranked top 25. Freshman and sophomore year we were in the top 10. I won a bunch of tournaments, conference POY, etc. Graduated with a 3.7 gpa. Just for background.

    1) What kind of schedule does a student-athlete keep each day and during the week with respect to required practices and workouts?

    Coach was pretty lenient. He worked qualifying around our class schedules. Basically told us it was up to us to practice if we wanted to travel. He recruited golf nuts that didn’t have to be told to practice. Said we’d be better off spending an hour putting than in the gym. Old school.

    2) What does a weekly schedule look like when there are tournaments (including travel)?

    Sunday- travel to course, practice round, check in at hotel. Fast food breakfast and dinner.
    Monday- hotel breakfast, round 1 (and 2 if it’s a 54 hole), fast food dinner
    Tuesday- hotel breakfast, round 2, head back to campus straight from the course. Fast food dinner. Homework in the van or when we got back to school.

    3) What are the number of hours/week commitment for #1 and 2?

    Qualified 3 days a week and practiced when necessary. Probably devoted 5 hours/day during the week.

    4) How hard is it to balance academics and social life?

    Not very. Leave the course, eat dinner/do homework, find the party. Don’t schedule 8 am classes. Find a classmate that takes good notes. Buy them dinner for their notes or something.

    5) How difficult is it to have a tough major (e.g. pre-med, engineering)?

    Totally depends on your intelligence level/ test taking ability. If you’re smart and you know how to dissect multiple choice questions and can bs an essay then you’re fine. Tests are the main thing. Every teacher has a certain code to crack for their tests. Ask around figure it out. Figure out what the teacher cares about and tailor your written responses to that.

    6) What do students do during the summer, specifically if they are pursuing an occupation where an internship is suggested or required to get a job after graduation?

    I played summer tournaments and worked at a golf course. I had several teammates who did internships without a problem.

    7) What are the most important things to be considered from a golfing perspective when picking a program? I.e. coach vs team rank vs practice facilities vs home course vs teammates vs reputation of program?

    While it’s a team score, it’s an individual sport. You can win an individual national championship with the worst team in the country. I mean obviously it’s better to have a nicer facility but in the end if you have a shag bag and an open field you can get better if you have the desire. You spend most of your time with your coach and teammates in a van. Better to have a good coach and good teammates than to have a great practice facility.

    8) Any schools with particularly strong alumni relationship among former golfers?

    Not sure what you’re asking here. I’m tight with a bunch of alumni from our school. Made a lot of great relationships.

    That’s the real version of it. You can make a long detailed schedule with workout time and practice time and homework time all made out, but the bottom line when it comes to the academics is whether or not it matters to you. If you care about passing your classes then you will. Whether that’s actually going to class or finding someone to take notes or writing test answers on the inside of your water bottle. You can pay the girl that sits beside you to do your homework while you go out. Would I encourage it? No. But it’s easily doable.

    With the golf, you can either play or you can’t. Scheduling 2 hours to putt 5 footers through a cute little tee gate or spending an hour doing sit-ups doesn’t mean jack s*** when you’ve gotta make par on a tight par 4 with water all over it for the team to win.

    That’s my take on it.

  • blairdblaird Members Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I played NAIA many years ago, wasnt a serious program, practiced on our own and didnt have enough people to require qualifying. But with that said...

    I have a good buddy that is a head coach at a D1 program ranked around 100. I know they have practice mon-thur with qualifying Sat/Sun/Mon. They have workouts, during season...so not Nov/Dec/Jan, two days a week (Tue/Thur) from 6-645/7 am. They have study hall one night a week for first semester, if you have a 3.0 or higher after 1st semester, you are done with study hall until the next year I believe. He gives them a day off after they get back from a tournament. There is plenty of time for a social life, going out, going to football/basketball/all other games. He is at the club the days of practice with them, and while it is encouraged for them to show up to practice, its not exactly required, more of a practice on your own thing. He said the players show up all the time for this.

    I know a girl that just finished her fresh year at an SEC school. She made all trips, had a 3.5+ GPA as well. Her schedule is similar, maybe more workouts, but a night of study hall maybe two, 2 or 3 days of early morning workouts, practice/qualifying throughout the week, 5 events or so per semester.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @admork said:

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    100% agree. I believe most feel the same way, but just won't say it. Sure we won't have the Victor's of the world maybe. Huge Victor fan btw.
    For every Victor there is what another 100 other kids taking up scholarship money. If it's a private school then its their dime. Mainstream doesn't care cause its golf.

    Pretty ironic because Norway actually paid for Viktor's Education at OSU.

    Then Viktor wasn't on scholarship?

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @admork said:

    Look at it from this aspect and take golf out of the equation. Our colleges and universities in the states are training some of these athletes to go home then play and compete against the USA in the Olympics and other World games. Our tax dollars are helping them do it. It is absolutely insane. If they want to come to the US and go to college I am all for it, but it should be on their own dime.

    Most of athletic departments are funded with less than 5% of government money. For example, in the Big 12 Conference, there is only one school that receive government funds for its athletic department, and it only represents 2% of its whole budget.
    Fundings come from NCAA distributions, ticket sales, donations, sponsorships and students fees. So, the international golfers are not funded by government money.
    On another note, I was an international college golfer on scholarship and I embrace the US College Athletic system, without a doubt the best in the world. I think the NCAA is the best way to train kids to become professional athletes. The process is not easy but the experience is extremely rewarding.

    Do you know and understand the accounting procedures behind scholarship? I don't and am asking. The money has to be accounted for somewhere. is the academic portion that is given by the university supplemented by the other students? How does that actually work? I know where you coach now and know your previously worked at a public institution in Florida.

    I was told by a coach that certain states/universities have deals with governments of other countries where that countries government will pay for that athlete to go to school. That is a win/win by the university. They get an athlete that is paid for and can spend their scholarship money somewhere else. That doesn't happen in every state or every university.

  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @heavy_hitter said:

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:

    I will add something that I know will be controversial, but I don't care.
    I think that the NCAA should limit all coaches from recruiting overseas and should only be able to offer scholarships to US Citizens. If a foreign student wants to come to a University from another country they should have to pay their own way, period. Since state Universities are funded through federal taxes, grants, etc. then kids from other countries shouldn't be able to utilize scholarship monies in the states.

    100% agree. I believe most feel the same way, but just won't say it. Sure we won't have the Victor's of the world maybe. Huge Victor fan btw.
    For every Victor there is what another 100 other kids taking up scholarship money. If it's a private school then its their dime. Mainstream doesn't care cause its golf.

    There isn't much I am afraid to say and in this case, someone needs to say it.

    The biggest problem with the Ladies game in the states are the lack of Home Grown Stars. No one cares about the LPGA because no one knows the names playing. Stop giving internationals scholarships and train our own. LPGA would be more popular in the US with more Americans playing. It honestly wouldn't matter if the scores were worse. The LPGA has no personality to attract viewers in the state.

    Too many college coaches spend time recruiting internationally rather than recruiting in their own back yards. It is honestly sickening that they are spending money to allow the coaches to fly over seas and recruit these players. It is a big waste of funds that could be spent elsewhere. Then they are spending state and federal dollars to help pay for them to be on campus. I don't mind helping little Johnny in the neighboring state. I do mind Giorgia from Italy. It just isn't golf either. It is every sport a college offers other than Football.

    I believe most US colleges and universities charge foreign (non-US citizen) applicants full price. The top private colleges all say that they have need-blind admissions...FOR US CITIZENS (implying foreign nationals pay full freight).

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