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The golf grip - novice to novice

 chipa ·  
chipachipa Florida/CaribbeanMembers  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
Joined:  in Instruction & Academy #1

I believe that correct golf grip and how it keeps the hands together is probably the number one issue for novice golfers. It is something I have been trying to understand as an adult golfer for at least 25 years and recently after reading an article by Jack Nicklaus where he stated the biggest problem among poor golfers is they regrip the club during the swing I realize it is also a big issue for the majority of other novice golfers like me.

I also feel that this is not an issue for better golfers based on previous discussion I have had and my personal experience with my nephew who has been playing golf off and on with me since he was a boy. He is a scratch golfer, 32, and has one local club tournament(s) and he flies it 300 yards on ave. with the driver. However, when we talk golf he doesn't like to get into specifics after all to him it is simple and natural. I understand his point of view and believe this is one of the reasons better players just don't "get" the problems we novice golfers have, even some very good teaching pros.

What the better players don't "get" imo is that without a correct grip the hands and arms are never connected, so for most of us a flying right elbow with parts of the hands coming off the club is just a natural move for us. They also don't understand that our awkward swings are mostly the consequence of a poor grip.

Another point of contention I have is with teaching pros who constantly tell novice golfers not to "flip" their hands through impact, when these guy clearly have never made a swing with their hands and arms disconnected like we novices do most of the time and thus can't comprehend a swing with the correct grip feels like the hands/forearms are "flipping" through impact.

These observations are also based on my own experimentation as well. Generally, my normal disconnected swing gets me 95 mph w/the driver, and I have to swing to the point I am off balance. However, when I have the grip done correctly my arms feel mechanically connected, albeit still soft, and I can easily generate 20 mph more with the drive with a more relaxed swing and I hit the ball much straighter with little effort. I have found that while both hands are involved in the backswing the right hand needs to hold the club in a way that doesn't prevent the left hand from getting into a good position. On the contrary I believe most novices like myself struggle with an incorrect right hand grip that is too much in the palm which forces the left hand to regrip the club during the swing.

Posted:

Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

1

Comments

  • JeselnikJeselnik Members  27WRX Points: 10Posts: 27 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jul 30, 2020 11:46pm #2

    Good Luck !



    JNIK

    Posted:
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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  21795WRX Points: 5,791Posts: 21,795 ClubWRX
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    If you can go from your normal swing to whatever swing you have with a little grip change and get from 95 to 115? To kind of paraphrase Colonel Flagg from M*A*S*H -- tomorrow every kid in America will want to be you!

    Posted:
  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #4

    Haha, it's true though. My fastest swing speeds were in the high 120's when I was younger. I believe a correct right hand grip generates a lot of easy power. A lot of teachers say that as well, like Clements and Malaska. Most amateurs(like myself at times) have the right thumb on top or behind the shaft and have the grip in the palm as well, which causes the right elbow to get in a bad position in addition to the right hand easily coming off the club.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • mudgemudge Members  267WRX Points: 79Handicap: n/aPosts: 267 Greens
    Joined:  #5

    Chipa what exactly are you trying to get at? That novices should know how to not have a bad grip without instruction?

    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers  7452WRX Points: 1,520Handicap: 3.9-9.3-7.7 (Health issue)Posts: 7,452 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #6

    But you didn't say anything about when you were younger.

    You said you "can easily generate 20 mph more with the drive with a more relaxed swing". That's from 95 to 115. I'd say that was,,,,,,,,, unusual.

    Personally I think at 95 you are NOT swinging at (roughly) 80% of your max. I don't think ANYBODY swings at much less than 95% of their max - they may think they do but they probably don't.

    Posted:

  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #7

    I think many novices understand how the grip is supposed to look but in reality its not working as it should.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

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  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #8

    I have a golf radar and measure my swing and I no longer try to swing my max because my back hurts later. I'm 55 and have had back surgery.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers  7452WRX Points: 1,520Handicap: 3.9-9.3-7.7 (Health issue)Posts: 7,452 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9

    Sorry to hear about your back. I have a herniated disc back there but thankfully am in NO pain no matter how hard I swing. That said, my fastest nowadays would be around 95. LOL

    I was referring to the average golfer and how much speed he can add by "really stepping on it". Answer - not as much as most would think.

    But you DID say "These observations are also based on my own experimentation as well. Generally, my normal disconnected swing gets me 95 mph w/the driver, and I have to swing to the point I am off balance. However, when I have the grip done correctly my arms feel mechanically connected, albeit still soft, and I can easily generate 20 mph more with the drive with a more relaxed swing and I hit the ball much straighter with little effort"

    i.e. present tense - you seem to be blaming the lower swing speed on your grip and your "connection", not a bad back. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding ?

    Posted:

  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #10

    Yes you are right, when I'm regripping the club I lose a lot of velocity. Also, if it weren't for my back I could no doubt swing in the 120's. My highest velocity was 128 at a golf shop, but I feel like it was more out on the course at times based on my driver distances.

    I think many amateur golfers could pick up 10-20 mph if they didn't regrip the club sometime during the swing in addition to having good mechanics.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members  1373WRX Points: 319Handicap: 15Posts: 1,373 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #11

    Yeah I don't know that any amateur is swinging 120mph when many pros aren't, I don't care what kind of backstory explanation there is about hockey or baseball etc.

    But the grip is huge for us amateurs. When I have a consistent grip I play well. When I'm regripping and disconnected, I lose the ball right and weak.

    Posted:
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    Cobra F9 18.5* 5w Project X Evenflow Blue 65, R
    Titleist 915H 21* Diamana S+ Blue 70, R
    Callaway Steelhead XR 5-AW Recoil 660 F3, R
    Vokey SM7, 56*/8 M Grind, Recoil ZT9 460 F3, R
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    TM Spider Tour
  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members  1373WRX Points: 319Handicap: 15Posts: 1,373 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #12

    For me the grip is the different between being a high single digit on my best days vs a mid teens cap.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 10.5* Project X Evenflow Blue 65, R - CAMO!
    Titleist 915F 15* Diamana S+ Blue 70, R
    Cobra F9 18.5* 5w Project X Evenflow Blue 65, R
    Titleist 915H 21* Diamana S+ Blue 70, R
    Callaway Steelhead XR 5-AW Recoil 660 F3, R
    Vokey SM7, 56*/8 M Grind, Recoil ZT9 460 F3, R
    Miura 1957, 59* C Grind, Nippon Modus 110, Wedge Flex
    TM Spider Tour
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers  7452WRX Points: 1,520Handicap: 3.9-9.3-7.7 (Health issue)Posts: 7,452 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #13

    "But the grip is huge for us amateurs. When I have a consistent grip I play well. When I'm regripping and disconnected, I lose the ball right and weak"


    But the question here is, when you DON'T re-grip, do you swing the driver 10-20 mph faster ?

    Posted:

  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 2, 2020 3:22pm #14

    Yes, when I get everything connected well I swing a lot faster according to the monitor I have. For me do do this in addition to being relaxed I need to use the correct grip and takeaway sequence while my legs are loading, they have to work together and when they do I get good velocity.

    Also, due to my back condition I train with weights 3 times a week, not too heavy but sufficient leg and back work, power cleans (and olympic deadlifts) front weighted lunges and of course upper body exercises. I keep my weight down too for may back, I weigh 154 at 5'6". I suppose I have more athletic ability than average but that doesn't mean that most golfers with a poor grip and technique couldn't benefit from ensuring the hands don't regrip the club.

    Regarding keeping everything connected, I have been watching a lot of videos about Bobby Jones and try to imitate the way he holds the club before addressing the ball in such a relaxed manner with the arms bent at the elbows, and also his left side dominant takeaway as well as pulling through on the downswing and hitting late with the right hand.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers  7452WRX Points: 1,520Handicap: 3.9-9.3-7.7 (Health issue)Posts: 7,452 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #15

    Thanks but you already answered my question.

    My previous post was directed at Justsomeguy, who also re-grips and gets disconnected.

    Posted:

  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #16
    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers  7452WRX Points: 1,520Handicap: 3.9-9.3-7.7 (Health issue)Posts: 7,452 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 2, 2020 4:56pm #17
    Posted:

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  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members  1373WRX Points: 319Handicap: 15Posts: 1,373 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #18

    **** no. 10-20? Not a chance. 3-5? Maybe if I'm super warmed up.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 10.5* Project X Evenflow Blue 65, R - CAMO!
    Titleist 915F 15* Diamana S+ Blue 70, R
    Cobra F9 18.5* 5w Project X Evenflow Blue 65, R
    Titleist 915H 21* Diamana S+ Blue 70, R
    Callaway Steelhead XR 5-AW Recoil 660 F3, R
    Vokey SM7, 56*/8 M Grind, Recoil ZT9 460 F3, R
    Miura 1957, 59* C Grind, Nippon Modus 110, Wedge Flex
    TM Spider Tour
  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 4, 2020 2:19am #19

    In my case my grip can also come apart not only because the wrong muscles in the hands and forearms are used but also due to problems with my stance and back that hinder me from turning my shoulders.

    Perhaps the best thing that I have found that works is Ben Hogan's advice to press the base of the right thumb pad on the left thumb and hold it there w/o tensing the hands too much of course.

    Posted:
    Post edited by chipa on

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • vmannvmann Members  114WRX Points: 85Posts: 114 Fairways
    Joined:  #20

    Oddly enough, Bobby Jones regripped when he swung.

    Posted:
  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 4, 2020 6:04pm #21

    That's interesting, I know he said his right hand didn't do a lot until right before impact. Do you have a video?

    BTW, Ben Hogan and John Daly also have left hand dominant takeaways and I actually think I have seen videos of both of them with the right hand barely on at impact. So maybe the problem is regripping somewhere during the backswing or at the initial part of the downswing.

    I find that a left hand dominant takeaway works best for me too and I get plenty of distance for my age(I had 2 wind aided tee shots this am with a 4 wood of 280 and 260 yards). In fact I'm wondering if maybe the reason I regrip on the takeaway at times is because my right hand is too active and starts to pull the club inside which doesn't allow my left arm and shoulder to get into a good position with the hands still connected.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • vmannvmann Members  114WRX Points: 85Posts: 114 Fairways
    Joined:  #22

    Jones' left hand grip would release and regrip during the swing.

    Posted:
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  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #23

    Do you have a reference? Maybe there is a way of doing it w/o losing power and accuracy.

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • chipachipa Florida/Caribbean Members  373WRX Points: 96Handicap: Dec. '20Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  #24

    If it's true that Bobby Jones regripped the club and taking into account that with the fact that I played very well today imitating John Daly's "right hand barely on" practice swing maybe I should rename this thread - "How to regrip the club like a pro instead of like a novice"

    Posted:

    Macgregor 9.5 - F-35 16.5 - Acer XV Tour 23, 26, 33, 41, 50, 55. - Bionik 105

  • Ri_RedneckRi_Redneck Leather for Life!! Members  5951WRX Points: 470Handicap: 8Posts: 5,951 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #25

    I have the Bobby Jones video collection and there is a time when he talks about "loosening his left hand at the top to get the club in the right position" IF I can find it online, I will post it. I wouldn't really call it regripping though because his hand didn't change position, only loosened and the tightened back up.

    BT

    Posted:

    Bag 1

    Cobra King LTD Pro 9.5* HZRDUS Black 7 6.0 @ 44.5"
    King LTD 14.5 - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43"
    F6 5-7 @ 17.5 - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5"
    Mizuno MP5 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge
    Grips - Grip Master Master Perforated Midsize

    Bag 2
    F7 9.5* - Aldila Copperhead 70TX @ 44.5
    King LTD Blk 14.5* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 43
    King LTD Blk 19* - Aldila RIP Beta 80 S @ 41.5
    Mizuno MP15 4-pw - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
    Mizuno MP-T5 Black 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge
    Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

    Bag 3
    Mizuno ST190 9.5* - Diamana "Flowerband" Whiteboard 73 S @ 44.5"
    Mizuno ST190 14.5* - Aldila RIP Phenom 80 S @ 43"
    Epic Flash Heavenwood 19* - Aldila RIP Phenom 80 S @ 42" 
    Mizuno MP25 4-pw - Recoil Proto 125 F4
    Mizuno MP-T5 Satin 52, 56, & 60 TT Wedge
    Grips - Grip Master Roo Midsize





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