Golf Ball Compression Numbers

jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
Here are the compression numbers for the Bridgestone line of golf balls. Please add other ball manufacturers numbers if you are certain of what they are.



B330: 90

B330-S: 75

B330-RX: 70 - softest compression of any urethane ball on the market

e5+: 75

e6+: 55

e7+: 80
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Comments

  • clothierclothier Members Posts: 272
    edited Aug 29, 2008 #2
    at the risk of starting something, you know compression has nothing to do with anything anymore, don't you?



    You can take a 100 compression golf ball and make it feel as soft as a baby's bottom, or a 30 compression ball feel like a rock.





    it's all about what the ball's layers are made out of, and how they interact.





    edited to apologize for the fact that my answer comes off sounding like I'm talking to a 3 year old. My apologies. I get this question in the store everyday, and I didn't realize until I read what I wrote how patronizing my answer sounds.
  • jaskanskijaskanski Members Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    True. Have you noticed how Titleist have dropped compression rating altogether?
  • jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
    clothier wrote on Aug 29 2008, 03:18 PM:
    at the risk of starting something, you know compression has nothing to do with anything anymore, don't you?



    You can take a 100 compression golf ball and make it feel as soft as a baby's bottom, or a 30 compression ball feel like a rock.





    it's all about what the ball's layers are made out of, and how they interact.






    This post was not started to see if the numbers mean anything or to argue that point. The numbers mean something to me and that is why I am trying to get other manufacturer's numbers if someone knows them. Obviously nobody posts their compression numbers on the packaging any more for the basic reasons you stated above, but there is some basic information to be inferred from the numbers, and that is all I am trying to ask people for.
  • clothierclothier Members Posts: 272
    OK, now I have to ask.



    What do the numbers mean, and what are you inferring from them?
  • jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
    The harder a balls compression is, the more ball velocity. And vice versa, the softer the compression, the slower the ball velocity.



    The numbers are extemely close, even for a ball say of compression 90 versus a compression 50 ball, the difference in ball velocity may only be 1 m/s. However, other things can be inferred from this based on the compression number, such as its tendency to sidespin (ie. slice or hook), its trajectory height, and though not always as mentioned before, its feel off of the clubface.
  • ra2bachra2bach Members Posts: 43
    the box of TM Burner TP says on the box that the core is 75 compression. it also says on its website that it has one of the highest C.O.R.



    I don't know about any of this but I did hit one of my all-time longest drives with one - 292 measured yards with a slight tail wind. fairway was quite soggy and the ball was within about a yard of its pitch mark. imagine if it had rolled....



    I've only played three rounds with this ball but I get the impression that more of them are finding the fairway. and it seems to work just about the way I want it to around the green. its my ball from now on...
  • DragonballZDragonballZ Members Posts: 6
    I'm not sure where your basis for making your statement but compression has everything to do with the feel of the ball. The only reason they're not relevant anymore is because of solid core technology vs. wound technology. When balls were wound with rubber bands, they used to come out with a wide range of compression ratings. In order for balls to feel the same from box to box, manufacturers would test compression and sort harder vs. softer thereby 90 vs 100 compression. Nowadays with solid core technology, it's not necessary to sort the same ball by compression because solid cores can be produced with a tighter tolerance for compression.



    The layers you mention interacting with each other does affect the feel of the ball but only to a small degree. The mantle layers are there to provide additional characteristics each manufacturer is trying to achieve; ie. less spin, more spin, faster restoration, etc. The softer the core compression, the easier it is for players to compress the ball. The mantle layers help with restoration which leads to ball velocity. When a player hits a driver and compresses the core, a soft core will feel softer than a harder core regardless of layers b/c they're compressing to the center of the golf ball. A 70 compression ball will feel and sound softer than a 90 compression ball off a driver because of core softness. But it might feel different off a putter because of cover material and the core is not utilized.


    clothier wrote on Aug 29 2008, 02:18 PM:
    at the risk of starting something, you know compression has nothing to do with anything anymore, don't you?



    You can take a 100 compression golf ball and make it feel as soft as a baby's bottom, or a 30 compression ball feel like a rock.





    it's all about what the ball's layers are made out of, and how they interact.





    edited to apologize for the fact that my answer comes off sounding like I'm talking to a 3 year old. My apologies. I get this question in the store everyday, and I didn't realize until I read what I wrote how patronizing my answer sounds.
  • clothierclothier Members Posts: 272
    edited Aug 30, 2008 #9
    again, at the risk of starting something, let me say that almost everything you said in your post is wrong.



    I'm not an engineer, so all I know is what I've been told by the ball designers, and core compression has nothing to with anything.



    You are still using old school thinking with new school balls.





    I also know that anything else I say from here on out, including what I just posted, I know you are going to think is crap, so you guys can discuss this all you like, drawing all kinds of wrong inferences from numbers that you think mean something and they don't mean anything, and I'll leave you all alone to discuss.
  • turnbowmturnbowm Members Posts: 810
    FWIW, this is what Precept has to say about ball compression in "The Science of Golf Balls" section of their web-site.....



    If a golfer uses a ball that is too hard for his or her head speed, the ball will not deform adequately and will fail to store a sufficient amount of energy from impact. Conversely, if the golfer uses a ball that is too soft for his or her head speed, he or she will expend a lot of energy deforming the ball, and will not achieve sufficient distance. For example, if an average golfer hits a ball that has been designed for professionals or advanced players, the result is likely to be, not greater distance, but instead a loss of carry because the player will not be able to deform the ball adequately. The key to selecting balls is to find one which provides maximum restitution for one's particular head speed.
  • DragonballZDragonballZ Members Posts: 6
    No problem. You're right... you work in a golf store and I design golf balls so we're in 2 completely different fields.


    clothier wrote on Aug 30 2008, 07:52 AM:
    again, at the risk of starting something, let me say that almost everything you said in your post is wrong.



    I'm not an engineer, so all I know is what I've been told by the ball designers, and core compression has nothing to with anything.



    You are still using old school thinking with new school balls.





    I also know that anything else I say from here on out, including what I just posted, I know you are going to think is crap, so you guys can discuss this all you like, drawing all kinds of wrong inferences from numbers that you think mean something and they don't mean anything, and I'll leave you all alone to discuss.
  • cristphotocristphoto Members Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are some compression numbers from a magazine article from last year. I agree with other posters that some of these numbers don't equate exactly to "feel".





    Bridgestone


    E5


    99


    Bridgestone


    E6


    70


    Bridgestone


    Tour B330


    110


    Bridgestone


    Tour B3330s


    101


    Callaway


    Big Bertha


    84


    Callaway


    HX Hot


    91


    Callaway


    HX Tour


    112


    Callaway


    HX Tour 56


    101


    Nike


    One Black


    102


    Nike


    One Platinum


    101


    Srixon


    Z-URC


    110


    Srixon


    Z-URS


    100


    Taylor Made


    TP Tour Black


    117


    Taylor Made


    TP Tour Red


    111


    Titleist


    NXT


    73


    Titleist


    NXT-Tour


    88


    Titleist


    ProV1


    93


    Titleist


    ProV1x


    103
  • cbriancbrian Members Posts: 2,280
    clothier wrote on Aug 30 2008, 08:52 AM:
    again, at the risk of starting something, let me say that almost everything you said in your post is wrong.



    I'm not an engineer, so all I know is what I've been told by the ball designers, and core compression has nothing to with anything.



    You are still using old school thinking with new school balls.





    I also know that anything else I say from here on out, including what I just posted, I know you are going to think is crap, so you guys can discuss this all you like, drawing all kinds of wrong inferences from numbers that you think mean something and they don't mean anything, and I'll leave you all alone to discuss.


    If that is right, which it isn't, why do the "ball designers" build pros their own golf balls with a different compression than retail golf balls?
  • 1badbadger1badbadger Members Posts: 140
    jman2407 wrote on Aug 29 2008, 03:11 PM:
    The harder a balls compression is, the more ball velocity. And vice versa, the softer the compression, the slower the ball velocity.



    The numbers are extemely close, even for a ball say of compression 90 versus a compression 50 ball, the difference in ball velocity may only be 1 m/s. However, other things can be inferred from this based on the compression number, such as its tendency to sidespin (ie. slice or hook), its trajectory height, and though not always as mentioned before, its feel off of the clubface.




    A lot of times, the SOFTER the core is, the MORE ball velocity you'll get.
  • jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
    1badbadger wrote on Aug 31 2008, 04:56 PM:
    jman2407 wrote on Aug 29 2008, 03:11 PM:
    The harder a balls compression is, the more ball velocity. And vice versa, the softer the compression, the slower the ball velocity.



    The numbers are extemely close, even for a ball say of compression 90 versus a compression 50 ball, the difference in ball velocity may only be 1 m/s. However, other things can be inferred from this based on the compression number, such as its tendency to sidespin (ie. slice or hook), its trajectory height, and though not always as mentioned before, its feel off of the clubface.




    A lot of times, the SOFTER the core is, the MORE ball velocity you'll get.






    There is a very linear relationship between golf ball compression and ball velocity. The harder the compression, the higher the ball velocity. It is a rare occurence to see a softer ball produce a higher ball velocity with any swing speed over 85 mph.
  • finalistfinalist MASHED POTATO! Members Posts: 5,411 ✭✭
    my driver SS is 101MPH. my index is 2.6. I can hit it straight. I don't like the Nike 1 black or harder type balls. I want max driver distance with soft feel. So far I like the B330-s and Prov1. WHAT should I play????
    Many Byron Putters
    Scratch Don Whites
    Scratch Jeff McCoys
    WITB Link
  • BaconatorBaconator Members Posts: 615 ✭✭
    I hate to bring in the Dean Snell article just for fear of opening the TP Black vs. Red debate that festered on for weeks, but he does have some interesting things to say about compression:



    GolfWRX: Can you tell us the compression numbers of the TP Red and TP Black?



    Dean Snell: I can. I’d like to give one comment to some people - I think this is an interesting discussion. For me, compression is probably the most overrated discussion in golf. I’ve done presentations in front of PGA Professionals and a lot of technical presentations with media. One of the things I’ve offered is a box of balls or a case of balls to anyone who can tell me what compression is. I have yet to have someone even tell me what the units are. It’s an old measurement that was used a long time ago that true 90 and 100 compression balls used to be 2-piece golf balls. But you don’t see compression ranting on any golf balls anymore. The reason for it is that probably 70% of the golf balls sold today are 80 or less. Back then if you were to put 80 on a ball, it would have been considered a women’s ball. So the compression number kind of disappeared from packaging because nobody wanted to write 80 and then not be able to sell golf balls. It’s truly a designers tool. We use it in R&D to control sound, to control spin rates, to help obviously with the COR and velocity of the ball. Really, I’ll give you an example. Everybody remembers the old Tour Balata wound golf ball and everybody remembers the old DT which is a hard Surlyn ball. Both of those golf balls had a 75 compression. If you had any player hit them of any caliber, the feel of those golf balls was completely different. So feel is not compression of ball. It’s part of it but it’s not compression. Those two balls have the same compression number but feel completely different. I think today when you look at it, the Tour Balata used to be in the 60’s and 70’s. The Professional came out in the 90’s. The HX Tour golf balls, B330 today are closer to 100, maybe over 100. So the compression of golf balls today is between 80 and 100. The new TP Red is in the low 80’s probably 82 or 83 and the TP Black is in the mid 90’s 96 or 97. Falls similar to the Pro V1 which is also in the 84 - 85 range while the Pro V1 X is in the mid 90’s as well. So the balls are separating themselves out today more than they used to but compression is not all feel. The construction, the layers, the material, the sound, that’s a bigger part of feel than compression. So for players that are choosing balls according to when it’s warm out I’ve got to use 100’s when it’s cold out I’ve got use 90’s - that old story is long gone and not really true any more.
  • jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
    finalist wrote on Sep 3 2008, 01:48 PM:
    my driver SS is 101MPH. my index is 2.6. I can hit it straight. I don't like the Nike 1 black or harder type balls. I want max driver distance with soft feel. So far I like the B330-s and Prov1. WHAT should I play????






    You have got to try the new B330-RX. It is the softest urethane ball on the market and was specifically designed for a player such as yourself. (good player with a swing speed of 105 or less) It spins less off the driver than the B330-s and ProV1 giving you extra distance, it is softer than both of those balls, and it still maintains its spin around the green because of its urethane cover and 3 piece design. I am assuring you, try it and you will not be disappointed!!
  • 1badbadger1badbadger Members Posts: 140
    jman2407 wrote on Sep 3 2008, 12:15 PM:
    1badbadger wrote on Aug 31 2008, 04:56 PM:
    jman2407 wrote on Aug 29 2008, 03:11 PM:
    The harder a balls compression is, the more ball velocity. And vice versa, the softer the compression, the slower the ball velocity.



    The numbers are extemely close, even for a ball say of compression 90 versus a compression 50 ball, the difference in ball velocity may only be 1 m/s. However, other things can be inferred from this based on the compression number, such as its tendency to sidespin (ie. slice or hook), its trajectory height, and though not always as mentioned before, its feel off of the clubface.




    A lot of times, the SOFTER the core is, the MORE ball velocity you'll get.






    There is a very linear relationship between golf ball compression and ball velocity. The harder the compression, the higher the ball velocity. It is a rare occurence to see a softer ball produce a higher ball velocity with any swing speed over 85 mph.




    Then why would anyone play a soft compression ball? Feel might be one reason, but how much ball velocity would a player give up to get better feel? I would think a softer compression ball would be easier to compress, or could be compressed more completely, and produce more ball speed.
  • jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
    Believe me, the higher the compression the more ball velocity. The softer the compression, the lower the ball velocity. You can ask any one who knows anything about the engineering behind golf balls. I test golf balls all day on a robot and can guarantee you this is fact. Higher compression golf balls "jump" off the face more due to their "hardness". "Softer" lower compression balls due just that and compress on the face thereby reducing ball velocity and spin as well. These are general rules of engineering and not always the case, but 90% of the time this is true.



    To anyone who does not believe in these facts, go here:



    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin...195072/PDFSTART



    It is a very interesting and dynamic paper written by one of Bridgestone's lead engineers.
  • PKMillerJrPKMillerJr Members Posts: 841
    So what ball do you think will perform the best with persimmon drivers and woods?
  • jaskanskijaskanski Members Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 15, 2008 #22
    Can anyone tell me what the compression numbers actually relate to? As someone said earlier, they do not necessarily relate to the ball's hardness of softness - so what does it mean then? I mean, there is no unit of measure - if it was weight or pressure or something then it would be 90grams or 90 psi etc. So what is the magical unit of compression?

    For example - say a balls compression is 90. Does that mean it is 90 units of 1? In order to have a compression of 83 or 75 or 100, then what is 1 compression unit?

    Is it something like the amount of turns needed to close a the jaws of a vice by 5mm? (really leftfield guess).

    Anyone got the gouge on this??

    The post above from Bridgestone does not say anything about compression that is remotely scientific.
  • jman2407jman2407 Members Posts: 262
    edited Sep 15, 2008 #23
    Compression is a measure of a golf ball's foot-pound resistance pressure to compressive stresses, or in other words, the degree to which a golf ball's shape changes when subjected to a compressive load. In the golf ball industry, compression is rated on a scale of 0 (softest) to 200 (hardest), where each point represents 1/1000th of an inch of deflection in a ball under load applied by a standard weight. A rating of 200 indicates that the ball does not compress, whereas a rating of 0 indicates a deflection of 2/10ths of an inch or more. Golf balls are typically rated 80, 90, or 100 (plus or minus 3-5 points). The construction of a golf ball and the materials used for its cover, inner layers, and core contribute to a ball's overall rating.
  • jaskanskijaskanski Members Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    jman2407 wrote on Sep 15 2008, 08:00 PM:
    Compression is a measure of a golf ball's foot-pound resistance pressure to compressive stresses, or in other words, the degree to which a golf ball's shape changes when subjected to a compressive load. In the golf ball industry, compression is rated on a scale of 0 (softest) to 200 (hardest), where each point represents 1/1000th of an inch of deflection in a ball under load applied by a standard weight. A rating of 200 indicates that the ball does not compress, whereas a rating of 0 indicates a deflection of 2/10ths of an inch or more. Golf balls are typically rated 80, 90, or 100 (plus or minus 3-5 points). The construction of a golf ball and the materials used for its cover, inner layers, and core contribute to a ball's overall rating.




    So the compressive load must be a constant then. So the load is what? 10kg,100kg, 1ton? What?
  • alfiealfie Members Posts: 1,413 ✭✭
    Back of the big pkg. boxes state:

    TM Burner is 60

    Noodle+ is 60
  • shermie11shermie11 Members Posts: 1
    My my... what an interesting discussion.. from what i feel over here, everyone comes from many different directions with different background. Designers, engineers, store keepers, golfers all looking to explain compression and how much it should be for optimal performance.



    I am new to this forum so pardon me. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



    As much as the discussion is, everyone are right to a certain degree because of their angle of approach....



    Lets take clothier's angle..



    He is a store keeper at a golf store and he advices his clients on how to pick a golf ball based on information from designers. His main objective is to help to select a golf ball for their needs.



    Let us note that there are some terms we need to take note. Core compression and PGA compression.



    When we are talking about core compression, it means the centre of the ball. i.e the rubber piece. PGA compression would be the compression as a whole.



    With the modern technologies and chemicals that we have nowadays, we can create outer layers that feel hard or softer depending on the impact. Harder impact you can create a softer feel and softer impact it would be hard. Some materials have the ability to reduce its COR upon a certain load. Hence the soft feel.



    So there are many points and angles which all of you guys are coming from. In fact it is too complicated to focus on because YOU can definitely make a ball work just for your style of play.



    Bottom line is it is true that compression ratings are not that big deal anymore if you are talking about just core compression alone. Compression can definitely lead to different feels depending on the materials and the layers. But at the same time from the designers point of view, it means a great deal as they need to create the ball for their target market.



    What we need to understand is let the designers deal with the compression. It is more a designers game than a golfers.



    For golfers, just stick to the balls that are more suited to your needs and situations. That would be good.



    Just a few cents worth of thought over here.



    Cheers!
  • LandyLandy ClubWRX Posts: 2,157 ClubWRX
    cristphoto wrote:


    Here are some compression numbers from a magazine article from last year. I agree with other posters that some of these numbers don't equate exactly to "feel".





    Bridgestone

    E5
    99


    Bridgestone

    E6
    70


    Bridgestone

    Tour B330
    110


    Bridgestone

    Tour B3330s
    101


    Callaway

    Big Bertha
    84


    Callaway

    HX Hot
    91


    Callaway

    HX Tour
    112


    Callaway

    HX Tour 56
    101


    Nike

    One Black
    102


    Nike

    One Platinum
    101


    Srixon

    Z-URC
    110


    Srixon

    Z-URS
    100


    Taylor Made

    TP Tour Black
    117


    Taylor Made

    TP Tour Red
    111


    Titleist

    NXT
    73


    Titleist

    NXT-Tour
    88


    Titleist

    ProV1
    93


    Titleist

    ProV1x
    103








    Hello - does anyone have an updated chart? Thank you
  • EBLefty17EBLefty17 Members Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    I'd be interested to see all the updated numbers as well
  • panther73panther73 48 years of fun n frustration Members Posts: 54 ✭✭
    Baconator wrote:


    I hate to bring in the Dean Snell article just for fear of opening the TP Black vs. Red debate that festered on for weeks, but he does have some interesting things to say about compression:



    GolfWRX: Can you tell us the compression numbers of the TP Red and TP Black?



    Dean Snell: I can. I'd like to give one comment to some people - I think this is an interesting discussion. For me, compression is probably the most overrated discussion in golf. I've done presentations in front of PGA Professionals and a lot of technical presentations with media. One of the things I've offered is a box of balls or a case of balls to anyone who can tell me what compression is. I have yet to have someone even tell me what the units are. It's an old measurement that was used a long time ago that true 90 and 100 compression balls used to be 2-piece golf balls. But you don't see compression ranting (RATING) on any golf balls anymore. The reason for it is that probably 70% of the golf balls sold today are 80 or less. Back then if you were to put 80 on a ball, it would have been considered a women's ball. So the compression number kind of disappeared from packaging because nobody wanted to write 80 and then not be able to sell golf balls. It's truly a designers tool. We use it in R&D to control sound, to control spin rates, to help obviously with the COR and velocity of the ball. Really, I'll give you an example. Everybody remembers the old Tour Balata wound golf ball and everybody remembers the old DT which is a hard Surlyn ball. Both of those golf balls had a 75 compression. If you had any player hit them of any caliber, the feel of those golf balls was completely different. So feel is not compression of ball. It's part of it but it's not compression. Those two balls have the same compression number but feel completely different. I think today when you look at it, the Tour Balata used to be in the 60's and 70's. The Professional came out in the 90's. The HX Tour golf balls, B330 today are closer to 100, maybe over 100. So the compression of golf balls today is between 80 and 100. The new TP Red is in the low 80's probably 82 or 83 and the TP Black is in the mid 90's 96 or 97. Falls similar to the Pro V1 which is also in the 84 - 85 range while the Pro V1 X is in the mid 90's as well. So the balls are separating themselves out today more than they used to but compression is not all feel. The construction, the layers, the material, the sound, that's a bigger part of feel than compression. So for players that are choosing balls according to when it's warm out I've got to use 100's when it's cold out I've got use 90's - that old story is long gone and not really true any more.




    The original compression rating for wound balls was a conforming ball was placed between two metal plates and then compressed with a weight of 200 lbs/ 90.7 kgs and measure the deflection/compression of the ball. 0.1 inch was considered a 100 compression ball, with some variance to allow for manufacturing intolerances. A compression of 0.11 inches was a 90 compression ball, again with some variance to allow for manufacturing intolerances. What made me unhappy was a dozen balls were tested in a batch and whatever the testing resulted in then applied to the entire batch of balls manufactured, allowing for mislabeled ball compression ratings for many balls within each batch. Today golf balls are made of ultra consistent polymers and the compression can be manipulated to be whatever the manufacture wants it to be. In college I played the Titleist 384 Black number 100 compression balls, later the Titleist Tour 100 balls. Carry with my 43 inch Ben Hogan Speed Slot Persimmon Driver and later with my 43.5 inch J's Professional Weapon was 270 yards, measured Swing speed of 116 mph with the 43.5 inch club, no technical swing speed measurement available to me with the steel shafted Hogan. 1995 through 2001 I played the Titleist Tour Balata 90 compression red number ball to achieve slightly more spin to work the ball and to stop the ball on the rock hard green surfaces at amateur qualifying sites I entered. But early in 2001 I discovered that the New Pro V1 was 20 yards longer off the tee with the same or better spin rates with the diamond or star sub cover Shore D ratings, much like the Tour Balata, Professional, Tour Prestige. I successfully bought the inventory for March and April keeping them out of my competitors hands, giving me a short time advantage. But the inventory quadrupled and I could no longer purchase the entire shipment. Anyhow Compression is still important for individuals with different swing speeds and personal preferences. Today I went out and played 7 holes with a Titleist Tour Balata 100, driver distance was within 5 yards of current 3 and 4 piece solid balls, but iron distance was 18 yards short of same modern balls. Once this was compensated for I shot even par with 2 birdies and 2 bogeys, but run out of daylight before I could finish 9 holes.915 D3 driver, Pro Com 95 stiff tipped 1.5 inches. 712 AP2 irons, DG S400s SS1x, Scotty Cams Newport 2 with 2 40 gram weights in head and Fatso 5.0 grip.
  • Need2golfalotNeed2golfalot Members Posts: 674
    The E5 does feel harder off of full swings than the E6. I prefer the E6. I also prefer the Prov1 over Prov1x.



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