How much does 1 degree Driver loft change effect spin?

BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXerMembers Posts: 1,216 ✭✭
edited Jun 5, 2018 in WRX Club Techs #1
Of course its different for everyone but is there a general idea of how much spin changes when you change the Driver's loft 1 degree? I don't have access to a launch monitor to find out myself....Thanks!



edit: and are the 1 degree steps uniform in spin change....meaning spin change from 9 to 10 is similar to 10 to 11?
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  • HehatemeHehateme Posts: 546 ✭✭
    edited Jun 5, 2018 #2
  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members Posts: 1,216 ✭✭
    edited Jun 5, 2018 #3
    ^^^^ Thanks buddy thats good info! Wow so 10 to 10.5 is around +600 rpms thats a big difference and Im not a launch monitor guy but thats prob worth a lot of yards...



    edit: or am I reading that wrong and its only +100 from 10 to 10.5 not +600??
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  • gee2626gee2626 Posts: 146 ✭✭
    I read it as for every 0.75 degrees, there is a change of +/- 300 rpm of spin. This means 0.5 degrees is about +/- 200 rpm.
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  • getitdailygetitdaily Members Posts: 2,433 ✭✭
    Barfolomew wrote:


    ^^^^ Thanks buddy thats good info! Wow so 10 to 10.5 is around +600 rpms thats a big difference and Im not a launch monitor guy but thats prob worth a lot of yards...



    edit: or am I reading that wrong and its only +100 from 10 to 10.5 not +600??




    Go here



    https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/



    And what you believe to be your launch conditions (hopefully you know them) and you can see what spin change does to carry if everything else stays the same.
  • TasalsTasals Posts: 283 ✭✭
    edited Jun 5, 2018 #6
    Barfolomew wrote:


    ^^^^ Thanks buddy thats good info! Wow so 10 to 10.5 is around +600 rpms thats a big difference and Im not a launch monitor guy but thats prob worth a lot of yards...



    edit: or am I reading that wrong and its only +100 from 10 to 10.5 not +600??




    Youre reading it wrong. From a 12* head dropping to 10* is -600RPM of spin. You cant really relate the 10.5 std to a 12* turned to a 10* directly, its going to be spinning around the 10* but since there are no spin numbers for the STD loft its not comparable. To do a closer comparison, youd have to jump over to the other std loft and compare it to turning a head there, but since it open and closes face angles, it gets complicated and slightly messier.
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,474 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #7
    Spin is related to club speed, and here is a small chart based on Trackmans algoritm.



    For each 1* difference to loft we change spin with



    80 mph club speed = 208 rpm

    110 mph club speed = 286 rpm



    https://goo.gl/images/zsa8wj



    For drivers, we have a average Dynamic loft to launch angle of 0.85 so if we add 1* on loft we raise launch with 0.85* (this factor vary from 0.79 to 0.89, but we can use 0.85 as average)
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,474 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #8
    To the OP.

    Even if you had a trackman at hand, it would be hard to find this numbers since we are humans and hardly ever get impact on the exact same spot from stroke to stroke.



    On drivers, its vertical gear effects who is the ruler of spin, so depending on where we make impact, the same player, club and swing (aoa), can se variables from below 2000 to above 4000 on spin, and a launch angle that can vary up to 3.5*



    When we move impact up or down on the axis for vertical gear effect, only 1/8" difference makes a difference to spin of about 240 RPM.



    Players with a spin issue most likely get a impact to low on the face, so its easy to fix.





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  • RogerinNewZealandRogerinNewZealand Members Posts: 2,314 ✭✭
    What is important is if the Extra 3/4 or 1 degree makes the difference between

    Can't Launch it and CAN launch it... you will be happy for the extra 300ish RPM !!
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,906 ✭✭
    Tutelman uses the estimate of:
    Spin = 160 * Vclubhead * sin(loft)




    Where the spin is in RPM, the velocity in MPH, and the loft in degrees
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,474 ✭✭
    The way my mobile show your formula, it makes no sense.



    160 x club speed x spin = loft



    ???
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,906 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #12
    Don't know why it's showing up different for you but here it is w/o any of the formatting.



    spin = 160 * Vclub * sin(loft)





    Keeping in mind that 'loft' is 'spin loft' (the loft the ball "sees" at impact) - not static loft of the head.



    Also, it's only valid for lofts < ~45* if memory serves, so not something to use for the shorter clubs.
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,474 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #13
    Hmm, got a link?



    Lets say the player had a center of the face club speed of 100 with his driver, and that club had a static loft of only 6*, and his angle of attack was +5*

    (No shaft bending adding dynamic loft)



    That gives a spin loft of only 1*, so lets try the formula.



    160 x 100 mph club speed x 1* spin loft = 16000 rpm spin



    ???
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,906 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #14
    Sure. but your math is still off. it's the sin of loft that's the multiplier, not the loft itself.



    sin of 1 degree = 0.01745



    so: 160 * 100 * 0.01745 = 279 rpm



    which is very close to your charts value of 260.



    Although to be honest, the article just uses the term "loft" and doesn't really clarify any further. Spin loft is the only loft that makes sense from a physics standpoint.



    https://www.tutelman...ing2.php#launch
  • LlortamaiseyLlortamaisey Members Posts: 5,876 ✭✭
    Hmm, got a link?



    Lets say the player had a center of the face club speed of 100 with his driver, and that club had a static loft of only 6*, and his angle of attack was +5*

    (No shaft bending adding dynamic loft)



    That gives a spin loft of only 1*, so lets try the formula.



    160 x 100 mph club speed x 1* spin loft = 16000 rpm spin



    ???




    I’m not the best at trigonometry or math in general but I got a completely different answer for your numbers. You have to know how to calculate the trigonometric function of an angle. You can’t just multiple the first two numbers together. Doesn’t work like that.



    160 x 100 mph x sin(1* spin loft) = 279.24



    I’ll make it a little easier for you.



    160 x 100 = 16,000



    Sin(1) = 0.01745241



    16,000 x 0.01745241 = 279.23856



    It might be easier to use a more realistic spin number for a diver like 14 or 15. That’s generally where we see amateurs with there Driver according to Trackman research. So take a look at this:



    160 x 100 = 16,000



    Sin(14) = 0.2419219



    16,000 x 0.2419219 = 3,870.7504
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,906 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #16
    Howard understand trigonometry. My guess is that something about his browser/app is just not displaying it correctly. Maybe something specific to his local and similar to how "( c )" is commonly changed and displayed to © (the copyright symbol).
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 8,474 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #17
    Stuart G. wrote:


    Sure. but your math is still off. it's the sin of loft that's the multiplier, not the loft itself.



    sin of 1 degree = 0.01745



    so: 160 * 100 * 0.01745 = 279 rpm



    which is very close to your charts value of 260.



    Although to be honest, the article just uses the term "loft" and doesn't really clarify any further. Spin loft is the only loft that makes sense from a physics standpoint.



    [url=&quot;https://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swing2.php#launch&quot;]https://www.tutelman...ing2.php#launch[/url]




    Yes, Spin loft is what makes sence, but for the math it does not matter.



    If we keep "all else equal", 1* static loft =1* dynamic loft = 1* spin loft, so loft is loft..
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,906 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #18


    If we keep "all else equal", 1* static loft =1* dynamic loft = 1* spin loft, so loft is loft..




    Well keep in mind it's an equation for spin for a given loft. It's not an equation for spin delta given a loft delta. The trigonometry means that the difference between 0* and 1* (279 rpm using the equation) is not going to be exactly the same as the difference between 15* and 16* (269 rpm using the equation)



    So in one sense (accurate use of the equation) it does matter. On the other hand, the fact that it's not an exact solution in the first place and only an approximation - means that it doesn't matter all that much. 10 rpm is pretty trivial in practical sense.
  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members Posts: 1,216 ✭✭
    edited Jun 6, 2018 #19
    Yowser guys thats some great info!



    Since I used to skip classes at MIT quite often and I swing above 110 mph I'll just go with around 280 added spin for every 1* loft increase lol....



    Howard thats an interesting gear effect diagram of where contact location is on the club face and how it changes spin!
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