New World Handicap System

[Newby]

Even though it is written clearly in the book I have had it confirmed by my source at the heart of things that the CH is not rounded before the PH is calculated.

[Roadking2003]

But it's all grade school math. In the world of mathmatics, the WHS calculations are extremely simple.

[Colin L]

What "calculation' is there for the player to do? Know your Handicap Index; turn up at a course; look up a table to find your Course Handicap; go play your golf. If you can't find.a table, get your phone out and use the calculator function to multiply your Handicap Index by the Slope Rating divided by 113. Not a single bit of mental arithmetic required.

[antip]

If you are going totally manually here, that is getting to the first tee with only your HI and have managed to:

a) not have a competition card printed by the proshop;

b) failed to find the course look up sheets plastered on notice board and in proshop and clubhouse (these sheets do everything - separate sheets for each tee set) - and for Newby I note that the sheet size is precisely the same as before the WHS changeover that we did late January; and

c) have failed to use the official handicap website to affirm HI and to look up your course handicap for your specific course

then you have to do the CR-par, slope and 93 per cent adjustment yourself.

But absolutely nobody does that.

[Colin L]

Absolutely nobody does that.

I'm assuming irony here, as in truth nothing I or any of my fellow seniors is capable of doing can surprise me. Fortunately given the requirement to return scores hole by hole, we can just put in our gross scores and let the computer do the rest. The singles match play allowance is 100% and we do already manage to work out the 90% allowance for four ball at the first tee. That covers almost all of our golf and i really don't see any of that as a change from what we are used to. For us, the main changes to explain are the shift to using an average of score differentials (easy) and the fact that we no longer get the same number of strokes whatever course we play but a different number according to the relative difficulty of the particular course (difficult).

That being said, it won't be necessary here for a member to understand score differentials, averages, hard caps, soft caps, playing conditions calculations or any of the technical stuff to manage your handicap and to apply it to their golf. You can know how to drive a car without knowing anything about what goes on under the bonnet/hood.

[nsxguy]

You are correct. But that wasn't the point.

[nsxguy]

I hope, if I do have to take out my calculator I'll remember to also add (CR-PAR).

That might be the calculation they "need to know".

And now we need to remember to multiply the CH by .95 and then round ?

Good grief.

I wonder if Dave's regular 4-some is going to go all through that. LOL

[Newby]

the fact that we no longer get the same number of strokes whatever course we play but a different number according to the relative difficulty of the particular course (difficult).

We have found in doing presentations, that to be very easy to get across and is well liked

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I hope, if I do have to take out my calculator I'll remember to also add (CR-PAR).And now we need to remember to multiply the CH by .95 and then round ?

We are fortunate in that we will have that all done for us when we sign in to play (although the first doesn't apply here)

[rogolf]

What is this "sign in to play" thing?

[Newby]

Whenever a player turns up to play here, they will be required to register their entry into a competition or register for a pre-declared 'general' play round. This is done currently but may be done in a paper register for entry later.

In future, they will enter their ID into a terminal (or possibly an app).

If it is a competition the system will know the player's HI, the course, tees, slope and format. So will have all the information necessary to calculate the PH and print a card for the player.

If it is general play, the system will know the HI but the player will simply have to identify the tees.

[antip]

This is the way it works here for normal competition play too, you hand over your 10 digit number (first 5 define your home club, second 5 your membership number) on any course in the country, and the competition administrator has access to everything. This is the basic model.

Locally, we (like many other places) also have a Vets association (meaning senior golfers rather than military) that plays once a week on varying district courses so we self administer, meaning each member needs to use the Look Up sheets to convert their HI to the daily CH (or a digital equivalent) and our memberships data register has all those 10 digit numbers embedded so we enter the scores and the competition's full data is submitted with a single button push. Everyone's HI is updated overnight through the one national database unless the competition administrator is holding back the posting - such as for a 36 hole event, although this is uncommon.

[rogolf]

Of course, you realize that may be the routine in your part of the world, but other parts differ. In NA, there are very few "Committee-run" regular/weekly competitions for players (none at my club). At my course, there are many "leagues", where groups (8-40 players) play together two or three times a week, but there is no sign-in required and no scorecards printed. One or two members of the group arrange tee times, collect the "entry" and then pay out based on the scores reported by each individual group or three or four. There is no review of scorecards or entry into any system. The individual players will normally enter their gross total adjusted score for handicap purposes on either their phone or their home computer.

[antip]

I find it a little surprising that an entrepreneurial pro shop hasn't seen the opportunity to sell some golf related services. Here it underpins a significant part of their activity and turnover.

[rogolf]

You suggest the pro shop would "sell" these services, but for a sale, there needs to be a buyer. Seems we don't need those services and are not prepared to buy them!

[antip]

Probably so! But it is a symbiotic process that includes starting the fields, issuing the cards, accepting the competition fees and so on. The fee includes a ball run down component, something like the top 25 per cent of the field win a ball (ie turnover for the pro shop). The system keeps more people maintaining purchase arrangements with the club pro rather than heading to Trader Joes (or other off course purchasing locations) for their golf consumables.

[rogolf]

Imo, we already support the golf shop and clubhouse in a big way. Our groups don't need the shop's involvement, and there isn't sufficient staff in the shop to administer it in a timely manner. We don't expect (or want) them to provide those services.

[antip]

I understand all that. The more tasks that can be taken on by volunteers the cheaper the club running costs. Interesting thing, in this country golf is really not a money sport for the most part - most clubs run on a shoe string and there is limited commercialisation, unlike much of Asia for example. But while we also have a very large part of club processes run by volunteers, our culture of the pro shop having a role in certain specific field management functions is a strongly entrenched norm in all but the smallest clubs in the bush. Perhaps the feature that it is a true 365 day process in 99.5 per cent of Australia supports this - if the golf only functions 7 months of the year the balance of issues changes a bit.

[DaveLeeNC]

 

I am a typical US/NA golfer and I show up on weekends with 3 of my buddies and we play golf, playing a whole bunch of kinda' stupid betting games. What exactly is the pro shop going to sell me here?

dave

[antip]

That approach here is just called social golf. Almost never produces a card that is handicapped. While individual clubs can, if they wish, accept such cards and register them for handicap purposes, almost no courses do. And the player has no capacity to put their own card into the handicap system personally, it has to go through a third party.

On most courses here, unless you are a member, you are not permitted to choose tees, you are told to use the visitor tees and they may bare limited resemblance to the main course.

The cultural differences are wide. By far the larger part of golf here is organised, club-based competition fields. You book it in online or by phone, hand over your 10 digit number and whatever payment the competition and course requires and away you go. So there is an admin process that sits behind this and the pro shops are a part, sometimes a smaller part, sometimes all of it. At my club, the pro shop runs the mid-week competitions completely, on the weekends, their role is issue cards, take money, act as starters, sort the ball rundown, while the Club Committee do the card checking, trophy sheets, conclude the event including pushing the button on the score data being submitted into the system.

[Augster]

Playing devil’s advocate to learn more about your culture....

What about players that will never, ever play in an actual event? That, as described above, just play Saturday and a Sunday with 2 or 3 buddies. Social golf. What if they want to keep a handicap so that they know their games inside of their little group is handicapped fairly? Just SOL?

Or are these casual golfers supposed to come up with their own system or use 3Rd party like TheGrint etc.?

Just playing devils advocate for info. For me, if I ever get to the point that I don’t enjoy competitions anymore, I’ll likely quit the game. I only play social golf as a build up toward comps throughout the season.

[Mudguard]

Surely if they want a handicap, then they need to play to the rules as closely as possible? How different is their social game? One thing that used to rile me a little here was my old boss had a handicap slightly lower than I did. But he handed in about five cards a year, and I handed ninety.

[antip]

Such groups are on their own handicap wise, they do whatever they want. Some social groups are set up a bit more formally, I have a mate in Sydney that runs a group of about 40 of whom around half play each Sunday morning at dawn at a Sydney club. Pressures for booking slots there mean they book one year in advance for about 35-40 Sundays a year. Some (around half) of their group are members at a club so bring their official handicap, but otherwise they just make it up as they go along. They appoint a handicapper and keep a spreadsheet for recent scores, adjustments are all a bit subjective but there's nowhere for a sandbagger to hide. No scores from their play make it into the official handicap record.

 

[rogolf]

As you say, there are different cultures in golf around the world; none is better than the other, just different.

[Shilgy]

Agree, although a large part of me prefers the system Newby describes. I would like to be part of a club where there are weekly comps and sh*ts and giggles rounds are not posted.

[DaveLeeNC]

Just to be excessively pedantic here, whether or not you post 'sh*ts and giggles' rounds is not a function of your club (per the rules, anyway). It depends on what sh*ts and giggles actually means and to decisions made by your area organization.

dave

[gwt]

I have separate US and Australian hcp and know 4 others who spend time down under with dual hcps. All of us prefer Oz golf with up to 3 comps/wk.

Interestingly, I will continue to have a separate Oz hcp and a WHS associated with my home club in US.. US club will accept Oz scores, but Oz club will not accept US. So much for WHS!

[davep043]

In my opinion, if you thought that every single difference would be resolved in a single iteration, you didn't understand how large the differences were. I believe that @Newby indicated that there were plans to take additional steps in the next cycle, 4 years from now. I think the current changes are significant, and I'm optimistic that we'll get closer every time changes are made.

[Newby]

Rather surprising that a National Authority seemingly doesn't know the Rules of the system.1.4b Designating a Home Club A player must designate one golf club as their home club, to be responsible for maintaining their Handicap Index. When a player is a member of more than one golf club, the player must ensure each golf club knows the details of: Which other golf clubs they are a member of, and Which golf club they have designated as their home club. 

However, it may well be that wherever you got that information are not aware that until the various National WHS databases start to talk to each other, the player is responsible for telling his clubs about scores returned outside the national area where the round was played. I must admit I don't know exactly how that is supposed to work but GA should know the procedure

[Newby]

Be grateful you are not in Australia where they multiply by .93

[antip]

Scaremonger! It's never done by the person, it's in the handicap software and already in the look up sheets! I can honestly say I've never multiplied anything by .93 in my life.