New World Handicap System

[nsxguy]

I looked at your record. The math isn't difficult.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Well yes. That works too. Here I thought you where clairvoyant!

[bladehunter]

@nsxguy Some scary stats on there so far this year. Under par for total par 5s even par for all par3s and gasp half shot over par on par 4s. But ridiculous amount of fairways hit. Fix those par 4 Approaches and il going to be in a good place.

[nsxguy]

LOL

It's those BLUEPRINTS you're playing. Not forgiving enough !!! LMAO

I'm not a big "stats" guy. On my ride home from the course, or shortly thereafter, even though I know what I did well and what I didn't that day, I go through the entire round in my head for putts, up & downs, fairways hit and GIRs.

I practice what I tend to be falling down on in the recent past.

 

[bladehunter]

Yea I hear that. I’m same. Very much photographic memory of each shot. Yet I forget what I ate for lunch yesterday. Lol.

 

Funny thing on approach is , for par 4s I have far more wedges in than irons. The par 5s and 3s are almost always iron shots. Or maybe hybrid. I’ve just got a little rusty with wedges while I’ve rebuilt and taught myself to putt. It will come together.

[nsxguy]

OK my friend, enough "asides". Let's let the thread get back on track.

[bladehunter]

Eh blah blah blah. Nothing being said for last 20 pages that hasn’t been said before.

[Imp]

 

BH.... That's easy. Go for the layup to where your next, most solid, iron shot would be. If you're better with an 8i or 9i than a wedge, I'd be aiming to put it an 8 or 9 iron out every time. I find myself doing that more than going for wedge distance if the ground is soft or wet. No matter what the bounce, I just don't get good contact on the ball with a wedge in soft or wed ground.

[Shilgy]

I would be careful using that strategy. It’s easy to “think” you are better with 8 iron than wedge. Largely because our expectations are a bit lower. Tour average from 100-125 is what? 20 feet or so? And yet we are disappointed when outside 10 feet. Point being that thenwedge you do not think you are good at may still have a better result than the 8 iron you love.

 

edited to add-sorry for the thread jack-back to the WHS.

[Roadking2003]

Just got my first PCC. I played Teeth of the Dog last week and GHIN added a 1 stroke PCC.

 

It's interesting that GHIN didn't add a PCC to my score at Punta Espada and it was much more windy there.

 

[nsxguy]

It's not the weather, it's the scores.

How did it look in the PCC column ? +1 ? And the differential to the right of it is 1 higher than the differential you calculated yourself ?

[Roadking2003]

Yes, it's the scores. But extreme wind will drive scores up.

 

Yes, the PCC column is +1 and the differential is one lower than the calc.

[nsxguy]

Differential is 1 lower I get but the PCC says "+1" ? Interesting.

Thanks

[Shilgy]

PCC +1 means the course played one stroke more difficult so the differential is lower. Makes sense.

[Roadking2003]

I think the PCC is added to the CR, thereby producing a lower differential. So if the PCC is +1, that reflects more difficult playing conditions which means your score was actually one stroke better than it would be under normal playing conditions.

[Imp]

Point was: play to your strengths.

 

--kC

[nsxguy]

So PCC of +1 and a diff of 8.5

means the actual diff shot was 9.5 but it was reduced by 1 because of difficult conditions and therefore was reduced to 8.5

I get it but most people probably don't realize their handicap index is actually a negative number. So yes, adding 1 to an actual negative 9.5 would result in a (negative) 8.5 diff.

I'm just thinking most would think 1 was ADDED to their diff so that they actually had a diff of 7.5 and it was raised to 8.5 [sigh]

[Colin L]

You've got it at the start of your post but then confuse the matter by getting into the bit about negative numbers. It's simpler to think that a PCC of +1 increases the Course Rating for that day by 1 stroke and thus reduces your differential by 1 stroke - as you say at the beginning.

[rogolf]

It's not as difficult as nsxguy's post appears to make it.

[nsxguy]

No worries. I'll get used to it if necessary. Just a little confusing is all.

Not sure how often it'll come up anyway but all that's really needed is to trust it - then ignore it, at least until you feel it's taking your 'cap in the "wrong" direction. LOL

[nsxguy]

NONE of the basics of the new WHS are difficult. Like anything new it just takes some getting used to.

[davep043]

Its not difficult to understand, but the way its written in the rules can be a little confusing.
"Can determine an adjustment of -1.0, 0.0, +1.0, +2.0 or +3.0 and is applied in the calculation of Score Differentials for all players."
So a +1 adjustment applied to a Score Differential seemingly would increase the Differential, but it doesn't. When you look back at the formula for Score Differential it becomes absolutely clear:
"Score Differential=(113 ÷Slope Rating) x (adjusted gross score –Course Rating – PCC adjustment)"
The way I read this, a PCC of +1 would actually decrease the differential by something other than 1 full stroke, depending on the Slope Rating. @nsxguy , is that the way it worked for you?

[Newby]

Score Differential = (113/SR) x (Gross - CR - PCC)

[Shilgy]

If most people would stop and think about for a moment....they know what a plus handicap is so theirs must be a minus.

[nsxguy]

"Score Differential=(113 ÷Slope Rating) x (adjusted gross score –Course Rating – PCC adjustment)""The way I read this, a PCC of +1 would actually decrease the differential by something other than 1 full stroke, depending on the Slope Rating"Don't think so. Full strokes only. Look at where the PCC is placed in the calc.No matter the gross score, 113/120(e.g.) = .942. Multiply the gross score-CR = X.X. So without any PCC the differential is X.X, WITH the PCC it's X.X -PCCSo only a full stroke as the PCC is added at the very end. At least that's the way I read it.
Edited - I believe I read the formula incorrectly. I read it incorrectly as (adjusted gross score –Course Rating) – PCC adjustment
My bad. I agree. Thanks @Halebopp

[DaveLeeNC]

In the example that you gave with slope of 120 and a PCC of 1, the change in differential due to the PCC would be "1 x 113/120" which is not an integer. The integer part (as I understand it) comes from the fact that the PCC will always be an integer #. PCC is basically a change to the CR.

dave

[Halebopp]

Nope, the formula is Differential = (113/Slope) x (AGS - CR - PCC), the greater the Slope, the less effect the PCC has. A +2 PCC with a Slope of 107 changes the Differential by 2.11 points whereas on a course/tees with a Slope of 137, it changes the Differential by 1.65 points.

 

The greater the Slope, the more variance there should be in the scores and thus the changing conditions play a lesser role in the results. If you have a course with no OB, bunkers, PAs etc. All the differences come from the playing conditions that day - pin placements, wind, rain etc. but if you have a lot of obstacles, those will make a big difference on a day-by-day basis to scoring depending on how well people manage to avoid them regardless of the conditions (you can hit the ball into a fairway bunker on a calm and a windy day).

[nsxguy]

True enough but a handicap is seldom, if ever, expressed as a negative number. If Joe is a "+1" and I am a "1", I MUST be a "-1", right ?

The (real) formula for a NET score is - Gross score PLUS course handicap. But (almost) nobody realizes that because the VAST majority of golfers are "negative" caps. So their CH really isn't a positive number but a negative one. So a (usual) CH of say "13" is REALLY a CH of "-13"

However, since CH is expressed as a positive number, everybody subtracts it from their gross score - but then, either the formula doesn't hold, or there really is no "formula".

So mathematically, while the (real) formula for getting a net score is - Gross PLUS CH, since "everybody" thinks of their CH as a POSITIVE number they know it needs to be SUBTRACTED from the gross.

How else could one explain getting a net score for a PLUS handicapper as Gross PLUS handicap = net ?

So either there's a real "formula" that's not really understood,,,,,,,,,,,, or there are 2 different formulas,,,,,,,,,,,,, based on whether someone is a "plus" or a "minus" 'cap. And if there are 2 different formulas, is there a "formula" at all ? Reminds me of a tree falling in the woods and nobody's there to hear it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LOL

 

[davep043]

We read this differently. The value inside the second parentheses is (score - CR - PCC). That is done first, and then the result is multiplied by (113/Slope). This is essentially the same thought process as @Colin L suggested, increasing the Course Rating by one full stroke, in which case that value can be written as (score - (CR+PCC)) with no change in meaning at all.
Now its possible that with the effect of rounding, in your situation the PCC may indeed result in a difference of 1.0. In fact, just to satisfy my curiosity, I tried a few permutations. Sometimes the PCC makes a difference of 1.0, sometimes it makes a difference of 0.9. Just as an example, if the (Score-CR) term is 3.7, the diff without PCC is 3.5 (3.48 before rounding), with PCC its 2.5 (2.54). If that (score - CR) term is 3.4, the pre and post PCC differentials are 3.2 (3.20) and 2.3 (2.26). The effect becomes more pronounced at higher Slope Ratings.

[nsxguy]

You must have been typing as I was editing.

You are correct. My bad.