New World Handicap System

[Newby]

That's often how it's done here. We have terminals by or in the bar. One guy keys while the other gets the beer.

[ThinkingPlus]

So now that things have been updated here in the US, it appears that manual specification of CR and slope for a set of tees is no longer allowed (at least by non-admin folks). This makes posting scores for unrated tees somewhat difficult. Did I miss that restriction in the WHS changes?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I'm with you Sean--- a real PITA if you need reading glasses (which many over 50 do). I hope most don't use their phone's on the course to key hole by hole.... there's already enough causes for slow play. What I'll do is keep my own scorecard or just use my Garmin watch then key in the data at home. I don't see guys interested in keying their scores hole by hole post round together... i.e. reading them to each other because it still means they may need their glasses. I bet a lot of guys will just key in their total score and 75% of them will make mistakes, just like they did pre-1993 when ESC was based on par plus strokes.

[Newby]

Handicap Committees (ie Admin) will have the facility. Appendix G.

[ThinkingPlus]

I presumed they would. Just liked being able to take care of things on my own in a timely manner.

[Newby]

How would you know when to make such changes? Did it affect other players scores.?

[davep043]

Its still there. Once you select Post Total Score, and then your course, you get to a pull-down menu to select your tee. At the bottom of that menu is a choice to Manually Input CR/Slope. So you can do it. However. it I'm on the Handicap Committee, I'd be looking pretty closely at anyone doing that. Its better done in conjunction with the Committee.

[ThinkingPlus]

When tees are unrated for men or women there is a process for coming up with a rating and slope. It isn't a comp issue. Just casual play which we still must post. Guys rarely run into the issue. Better women will have this problem more often.

[ThinkingPlus]

Are you looking at website or app? I don't see that option on the app.

[davep043]

Have you asked your club to rate those tees for women? From what I've been told, most of the measurements required to do those ratings are retained by the State Associations, so it may just take a request from the club to get the Association to re-run the calculations, i.e. determine the ratings for a woman from the back tees. I was surprised to see ratings for men from the forwardmost-tees at y course in the new GHIN, maybe you can get the proper ratings for women at yours.

And to answer the other question, I was on the GHIN.com site, I didn't try it on the phone app.

[TimK1]

My index went up from 2 to 3.4. All without hitting a shot. lol

[davep043]

That seems extremely unlikely, if you're in the US. Taking the best 8 instead of the best 10 should lower the index, and the elimination of the 0.96 multiplier would cause a nearly negligible increase. Would I be disrespectful if I asked for more details?

[ThinkingPlus]

I can ask, but doubt they would do it. If it costs money they won't do it. We are going to take out and modify our bunkers over the next year or two I think. Will need re-rating after that so I may pursue it at that time. Of course as I get older the issue is becoming moot for me.

[davep043]

In many Associations, there's no charge for rating services. Especially if its just running some data through a computer, it shouldn't be costly. Good luck if you try to get it done!

[DaveLeeNC]

I can think of 2 explanations here.

1) While he didn't post any 2020 scores, he did post scores after 12/15 and it is his 12/15 based index (his official index until the cutover) that is being compared

2) He had a R index in the old system

dave

[RSinSG]

I'm not likely to use the hole by hole option, but I suppose I could be convinced if there was a real benefit to me. I'm not sure what that would be.

I was using the app for the first time last week and found out I needed to enter the two 9's separately. I didn't have the card and couldn't remember my scores (one of those crappy rounds I like to quickly forget.) I eventually got it from my Gamegolf unit but that was a new one for me.

[Sean2]

I just write down the score for the hole and move on...I total it up at the end...I don't want to know my score until after I finished the round. A few years ago, I made a putt on 18 and my son told me I just shot a 79...first time breaking 80. I am pretty sure if I knew what I was putting for, I would have missed, lol.

[Sean2]

If you scroll down, there is a formula for computing slope and rating if you play a set of tees not rated for you. https://oga.org/sites/default/files/A%20case%20for%20Tee%20it%20Forward_0.pdf

[mitchl]

My daughter occasionally plays from the men’s tees, which has no rating in the system.... but they did get rated, the pro has it, she and other girls/women playing back just have to enter manually.

 

I’ve run into this a time or two myself when I am on vacation and play the random course to find the tees I played aren’t in the system.

[ThinkingPlus]

Computing the CR and slope is pretty easy. I have been doing it for years. The difficulty now was the app removed the capability to manually post against that computed CR and slope. As Dave pointed out, the GHIN website retains that capability. All good that they kept that feature.

[Mcgeeno]

Hey guys, my apologies for the ignorance on this.

 

I logged in and noticed my cap dropped from 2.9 to 2.6 about what I expected.

 

The shock and confusion comes from my handicap from our middle tees at our course now...It says my course handicap is a plus 1?

 

That seems like quite the drastic change no? 67.1/113 from middle and 71.1/124 from back tees. Our Mens Night is played from the middle tees by all flights.

[Augster]

It sounds to me like you’re getting too many shots.

What is the PAR for the tee you are playing? With a 67.1 rating, if it’s a par 70, you should be playing off ZERO. If it’s a par 71, you should be playing off +1.

To play off of 1, the par must be 69?

The new CR-par added to the end of the PH calculation will lower everyone playing easier tees. Conversely, it’ll raise the PH for everyone playing tougher tees.

This is the major change in the WHS. Most everything else is just the same as always

[Mcgeeno]

Hi thanks for responding sorry I typed "plus 1" not +1. Course par is 71 from all tees.

I'm now a +1 from the middle tees and a 2 from the back tees. I also don't know what PH means?

I guess I better get my **** in gear for the middle tee mens night game haha.

 

[Augster]

PH is Playing Handicap. The actual cap you are playing with after the CR-Par adjustment.

Now you have your index, 2.6, your CH, Course Handicap which is the 2.6 x Slope/113 for the tees you are playing. THEN your PH is your CH plus (CR-par).

If you are playing doubles matches in league, or singles, it won’t make much difference. The guy you gave 3 strokes to last year when you were a 3 and he was 6, you’re still giving 3 strokes to but you’re a +1 and he’s a 2.

Where it’ll show up is if you play a Stableford format. You’ll be adding a shot on the 18 handicap hole. True that everyone else will have less shots also, but I’m pretty sure it’s easier to score points when, as a 3, you’re likely getting shots on par 5’s instead of adding shots on short par 3’s or 4’s (18 cap). Everyone is affected the same-ish. But I think it’ll be tougher to get 36 points as a +1 than as a 3. If you par them all and shoot 71, you’ll only have 35 points. Whereas, last year, same course, if you parred them all as a 3, you’d have 39 points.

Everyone else is also affected. It’ll just be tougher to get 36.

 

[Mcgeeno]

Thanks @Augster I think I get it now.

its just quite the change to see a +1 by your name when you’ve hovered around a 2-5 cap for 10 years. I thought I did something wrong haha.

[Augster]

No doubt.

We won’t get started here until April for posting. At my club, there is going to be unbelievable outrage and they’ll probably do a “roll-back” and decide to keep all the caps locally by the old system. I’m glad I’m not on the committee that first day when the old timers that have been getting 18 playing the front tees suddenly check their card for the first time and are getting 11. Plus the guys who bag their cap to always be a 10 will suddenly be an 8 (-2 from our white tees) and not getting a shot anymore on our 10th hole. I’m sure they’ll just bag back up to a 12 to get that shot back on that hole.

But there will be outrage. This I foresee. Not everyone hangs out at WRX and gets educated on the WHS before the season. :)

[Newby]

I don't think the actual measurements are recorded. Simply 'over 3ft' or 'over 5ft' if that is the required standard (eg bunker depth)

[davep043]

Have you looked at the table in the new rules? It looks to me to be a little different from the previous version, but I never really used it so I can't be sure. Its in Appendix G in the new Handicapping Rules: https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.htmlI don't have direct knowledge, but that's what we were told at the Handicap Seminar I attended back in December. A lot of the measurements are things like fairway width at a number of locations, distance from center of fairway to various "problems", uphill/downhill, required carries, etc. As I understand, that's all recorded on a data sheet and retained by the local Association. We were told that for for many changes to the golf course, things like establishing new areas as Penalty Areas, they could provide a new rating without needing to physically revisit the golf course. Those same measurements could be adequate to provide ratings from different tees. Like I said, I don't really have direct knowledge.

[cardia10]

All of this confusion to play golf....fairly.....equally....across the globe. Disc golf is looking better and better.

[TimK1]

No,

I live in the states but my club is in Canada. My handicap is done in Canada. I'm not sure that makes a difference. I honestly don't know much about the handicap system period. I just post my scores and let the system take care of the rest.