New World Handicap System

[HatsForBats]

Can't find the new table on the page you linked or in the few links on that page that I followed. Do you have a direct link or can you post a screenshot?

Edit: found it: https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Appendix%20G%20Golf%20Course%20Course%20Rating%20Slope%20Rating.htm

[ThinkingPlus]

@davep043
Have you looked at the table in the new rules? It looks to me to be a little different from the previous version, but I never really used it so I can't be sure. Its in Appendix G in the new Handicapping Rules: https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

Wow. Thanks, Dave. Completely different and very restrictive. I can no longer post if I play our Blue tees. I usually played those tees by myself anyway so not a big issue, but that 300 yard limit seems arbitrary and somewhat pathetic. However I had considered playing in the club championship in the senior division. I would not be able to post those comp rounds if I did. There were times many years ago I would not have been able to post probably 1/3 to 1/2 of my yearly rounds under this kind of restriction. This is so special. I love the USGA. :-(

[davep043]

I've found that we can't link to a specific page in the new Handicap Rules. This is the Table I referenced from Appendix G, primarily intended for temporary re-rating of of courses.

It appears to be a replacement for the Table presented in 5-2g in the 2019 Handicap Manual found here: https://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicap-manual-2012-2015.html#!rule-14379

[HatsForBats]

Very similar the same except with some rounding at the start and end of the new chart and the omission of under 100 yards and over 300 in the new chart.

I will have to try to dig up the old women's chart just so I have it for safekeeping. Edit: grabbed thanks to Dave's post above.

 

[OldFrog75]

I just read the link from davep043 and I don't see anything about a 300 yard restriction or why you can't post from the Blue Tees?

[ThinkingPlus]

We have 2 of our 4 tees rated for women (silver and white). The blue tees are 330 yards longer than the white tees which are the longest rated tees for women. At the bottom of the table in Appendix G of the 2020 Handicap Guide it mentions that CR and slope adjustments for differences greater than 300 yards are not allowed and you must contact your state association to have the tees rated if you you wish to post against them.

[Halebopp]

@davep043

While they record a lot of things when rating a course, like the distances to obstacles around the landing areas, fairway width etc., at least the group that rated our courses last summer didn't take any exact measures for bunker depths. They simply looked at the ranges for different levels of difficult for bunkers. For example if a range for a bunker was 1.2-1.8 meters of depth for the ladies and the 1.4-2.0 meters for men and it was obvious the bunker was between 1.4-1.8 meters deep, they'd simply write down the corresponding number. When it wasn't clear cut, one from the group would go stand in the bunker and they'd estimate the depth using that guy's height as a reference. But actual measures were never taken and naturally not written down.

[davep043]

I've never worked with or been around a rating team, but that makes sense to me. What I understood twas that every one of the measurements and/or subjective evaluations was retained. All of that data had to be entered into a program at the Association level anyway to work through all of the calculations, so it seems to be merely a matter of retaining the data file, in whatever form that is. With that data, it might be possible to produce a rating for women playing the back tees, as an example, even though that wasn't the intention when the rating team was actually on site.

[Shilgy]

I believe you are getting a couple newish terms confused. Your course handicap(CH) is the normal play calculation including Par-course rating(CR). Your PH) Playing handicap is for team events or other events where a percentage is used. For instance a two best ball of four may use a 85% or 90% calculation.

 

Someone please clarify if I am incorrect.

[Halebopp]

Certainly and while I don't know they work in other countries, only the red and yellow tees (regular tees for women and men respectively) were actually measured for scratch and bogey golfers and everything else is simply calculated - men for each set of tees and women for all the other tees except the back tees. In case they do it the same way elsewhere, I could see they might actually need to rate the courses separately for the ladies from the back tees as the course changes so dramatically the distance adjustment tables would simply fall apart at that point and wouldn't provide a realistic estimate.

[davep043]

Another reason a Playing Handicap might differ from the Course Handicap is when players are competing from different tees, and the Par is different from those tees. That particular correction is used only in formats where gross or net scores are compared directly, but not when the results are compared to par (including Stableford). I believe those are the two procedures discussed in Rule 6.

[nsxguy]

USGA Q&A

"Your Playing Handicap is the actual number of strokes you give or receive for the round being played. It is typically the same number as your Course Handicap. The exception is when a term of the competition applies, such as a handicap allowance used for equity in certain formats of play."

 

[davep043]

In one of these threads, someone asked if the PCC had been applied yet anywhere. Apparently, in Virginia it has happened once so far, at Boonsboro CC, 14 scores posted on 6 Jan, the PCC was 1. This report is available to those with Administrator access, and I believe only applies for clubs within my state association.

[sui generis]

From Carolinas Golf Association:

The mobile app for Android must be installed in a particular manner. For those of your members still having difficulty here is the complete set of steps:

Step 1: Uninstall the app completely

Step 2: Shut off and then re-boot your phone

Step 3: Go to Playstore and search for "GHIN Mobile" and install new app

Step 4: When logging into the app do not key in any leading zeros as part of your GHIN number

Step 5 NEW - You must type in your complete name one letter at a time using the keyboard. DO NOT USE the built-in Android Prompt to automatically fill in your last name. The prompt often adds an extra space after your name and then you will not log into the app. This is not a GHIN flaw - it is the sometimes troublesome feature of the Android keyboard.

[Sean2]

By this time next year, we will all be comfortable with the new system. :-)

[sdandrea]

I'm already there. It's not really a big deal.

[nsxguy]

Sure isn't, especially if you only enter your adjusted gross score, as I always have.......

[RSinSG]

I mentioned this earlier but have been thinking about it some more. Is there any benefit to me to enter scores hole by hole vs total score?

[rogolf]

A couple that I can see, but not saying they are important:

don't have to figure out net double bogey (not usually a big deal for low handicappers)presumably can figure out which holes you don't do well on (if you don't know that already)

[OldFrog75]

Where, if anywhere, is HbH currently available? It doesn't appear to be working yet in the part of Texas (TGA) where I play.

[DaveLeeNC]

I did it today in NC (Ghin web interface).

dave

[nsxguy]

There is a "Stats" tab. A sample shows % pars, bogeys, birdies, etc. This can obviously be calc'd from the hole-by-hole.

Next to it is a sample "Putts", "driving accuracy", etc - exactly how those would be entered ? Your guess is as good as mine - don't see anything obvious.

[lefty1978]

So far so good.

[Shilgy]

When you enter hole by hole the advanced stats are available for entry.

[nsxguy]

For the left side of the pic I posted, sure.

But the right side stats take more than just h-b-h scores.

[Shilgy]

You asked how they would be entered and I told you. They are additional info you can check when doing hole by hole entry.

[nsxguy]

Well, I said "exactly how, I don't know" but yes, I suppose I did ask. LOL

So have you done that ? I've gotten as far as entering the h-b-h scores but didn't post because my courses aren't loaded for h-b-h so iI was "testing" it in North Carolina,,,,,,,,, so of course I didn't hit "Post Score".

So I take it it's the page after posting the score ?

 

[Newby]

All our courses are rated separately unless a particular tee is within 20 yards of another when the start point is from between the two tees.

[davep043]

I just checked at GHIN.com. If you select Enter Hole by Hole, when you get to the score entry page, there's a toggle just above where it says Front Nine for Advanced Stats. Turn that on, and you get 3 more lines on each hole for Putts, GIR, and Driving Accuracy. I haven't looked at the app yet, but I seem to remember 3 options for posting, one of which is Hole by Hole with Advanced Stats.

[Shilgy]

No...as I said it is as you do the hole by hole. Below the hbh box their is a spot for fairways etc. I just noticed it briefly the other day and did not really examine it as hbh was not yet available here in Arizona. I am wondering(hoping) you could add that later as my scores are mostly input through Golf Genius. But I doubt it.

 

Edit- I see Dave explained it better than I did!