Bryson's victory is sea change in golf history

[Ghost of Snead]

Two things stand out -

One, he won the Rocket Mortgage with 8 of the world top 10 sitting out. Was his driving impressive ? Sure, let's see how it stacks up in the PGA and U.S. Open where being off the fairway will be more penal and the greens will be tougher than Detroit. And with more big names on the leaderboard.

2nd, I'll be interested to see if he can keep swinging at 135 and not get hurt. He will need to keep training to maintain that level of fitness/weight so we'll see if it holds up.

The USGA has done nothing about Langer & McCarron so don't expect any movement on the arm lock.

[MountainGoat]

Bryson's average yard/drive increased 20.5 yards from 2019 to 2020. When Brett Quigley increased 22.1 yards from 2000 to 2001, he totally changed the game. It was all anyone could talk about, and golf courses had to be Quigley-proofed.

 

[airjammer]

Brett never won on the pga tour and until he won on the champions tour recently..he did what everyone else did when they gained or tried to gain a lot of speed..lose their swing.

 

What rainman has done in such a short period of time is impressive regardless if someone actually likes him. We are living in a new era of instruction..there’s not much guessing going one anymore. If you are willing to pay for it you can get most tour players pressure traces, 3d biomechanical graphs, swingspeed and clubhead data, and hack motion data from driver to putter. The instruction section of this website use to be full of lively discussions about how to swing the club..they pretty much don’t exist anymore.

Bryson may or may not be the blueprint for others to follow..we shall see.

[PowderedToastMan]

When you wrote this, did you actually think it was a good argument?

[Stevens24]

Well Quigley was driving it 298 after increasing 22 yards. That is Bryson's 5 wood.

The purpose of playing professional golf is to win money and tournaments. Will Bryson win every week? No. But he has not been out of the top 10 since the tour started again and has made close to 4.5 million already this season in 11 starts. I will take 410k a week in earnings. And while Augusta has hazards, rough is not one of them. If he can putt he can easily contend there and the PGA Championship.

[MountainGoat]

Yes.

 

[juliette91]

I guess we'll just have to leave it to the future to see what happens. For the record I do not think something revolutionary in golf requires X number of majors, Y number of PGA victories, Z number of hot streaks to be valid. It just needs, as I think is happening now and will happen more, the golfing community to take notice and start imitating. It helps if you've won 6 pga tournaments and have acknowledged credibility with a scientific approach to all phases of the game. It helps if you're demonstrating to your competitors that you're achieving ball speeds until now not regularly achieved on Tour that you can control. Under pressure from Wolff, on #17 with a fairway forming the tip of a triangular shape with water bordering one side and around to the front of the triangle tip you hit the ball 330 in the air and it rolls out to near 360 at the narrowest point on the hole. That helps. Was that a one shot wonder? Is this build mass, strengthen each integral pressure point of the swing a fad that will go away if he doesn't win the number of majors many on this thread believe is a prerequisite?

Sea change was easy to take a potshot at, I set it up that way but it's been a very entertaining discussion. Thank you all for posting!

[bscinstnct]

 

Good sport, j91 ; )

 

If BD can consistently keep it playable and get it out there like he is, he could do some scary work.

I like that he seems to want to be in the spotlight, means he welcomes the pressure.

[freowho]

I have a question. How far can the ball go?

[juliette91]

Thank you! No matter how you feel about "sea change" I bet there's not one poster who isn't going to tune in and watch BD. Look at the consistency he has amassed since his body/speed transformation: 7 straight top 8 finishes.

In todays Tour with the amazing talent there week after week that's pretty darn impressive. He knows that what he's doing is working and in the interview that I couldn't find the link to he said he wants to get up to 275 pounds. Used to be "thin to win" but BD's changing that. Now it's more like mass to blast. Don't think for a nanosecond that he's not hard at work on his 50-70 yard game. He's not wedded to the single length club. So far it's the best way he thinks to achieve in golf but if there's a better way he'll change it up.

 

[Bigjim1022]

Yeah, I guess I’ll be the guy who’s not tuning in specifically for BD. I watched colonial because my back hurt and couldn’t play. Watched a few holes of the next tournament but not much. Didn’t see one shot of the Rocket Classic.

He doesn’t move the needle that much, at least not for me.

[torbill]

OP claimed sea change and regrets that it is obsoleting great golf courses. I agree on the golf course part. But, sea change in what? Ball speed due to physique is the claim. I don’t necessarily see that. What I see is a continuation of the evolution to better techniques and equipment and stronger physiques, BD being a continuation and in my view an anomaly.

Tiger really started the physique thing as I recall, and the evolution led all the way to Koepka. Heck, even Phil got into the act a bit. .

The distance trend is a progression of better bodies, better equipment, better technique. BD isn’t starting the trend. BD is advancing the trend. He is above the trend line at the moment, due to his commitment and willingness to throw out a lot of the old book and innovate. But he is an anomaly, precisely because these things are very hard for others to duplicate. There are sea changes in some aspects of golf. Take large driver heads. That was a sea change - does anybody not play a 460cc head anymore? But anybody can buy a 460cc driver. How many can buy bodies what BD has done with his? BDs body is not the next 460cc driver head that anybody can have.

And if there is a sea change in ball speed due to physique, I don’t know why Koepka and not BD wouldn’t be the poster child. Huge drives, 4 majors, a superior physique whipping the field by 10 strokes in a major. But even with him I would say there is a trend, and he continued/advanced it.

We old timers remember the hype around Daly. I remember being at the Doral Open when Daly was a sensation. There are two holes that are adjacent to each other, where one group can see the tee at the adjacent hole. I remember seeing Daly tee it up, and the groups on the adjacent hole were stopped, all eyes on his drive. Never seen anything like that before. He was just hugely long in comparison with everybody else on tour. That, to me, was a watershed moment in golf, just like it is now with BD. But I don’t think that Daly was a sea change.

My $0.02...

[smashdn]

Plus it sounded to me like he made some unorthodox shaft changes to be able to control that speed. Equipment and technology at work as much as just throwing around the weights.

[smashdn]

Good question. I am not sure anyone really knows.

You could crank up the old iron Byron to 11 and see what happens. That might get you an answer that is more practical in nature.

More theoretical would be to use air pressure to launch a ball from a tube and impart just the right amount of spin to it to stabilize and see where the point of diminishing distance is.

In some of the various threads folks contend that air resistance and current testing has created a cap and we are currently there.

 

According to wiki the ball exit speed world record is 204mph. What was BD hitting?

[MarkTheSark]

Agreed with Tiderider, I enjoy the strategy.....

 

At the end of it, there's more strategy in a baseball game than there is in homeruns.

[nsxguy]

So if he finishes 16th next time out he'll have 8 straight top 16 finishes, yes ? Just messin' with ya. It's certainly impressive.

I can't imagine him trying to get to 275. Then again, it IS Bryson. LOL But you are playin' with us by relating "thin to win" to body weight, yes ?

[juliette91]

Yes, I liked the double meaning of thin to win and the sound in my head of mass to blast. I like your top 16 thing, point taken!

[juliette91]

Your point is well stated but the fact that we who don't have our names on our bags are unlikely to purposefully gain 20 pounds and hire a very expensive strength coach doesn't mean that what BD is now doing falls short of the mark. Daly just wasn't a good spokesman for what he was doing and his diet certainly wasn't to be emulated. Actually Gary Player (you call yourself an old timer?) was the real first exercise evangelist on tour. Others took notice then but not until TW did others really start honing their bodies too.

I guess I think what BD is doing is much more than an extension of Gary Player or TWoods. Everything he does in golf is steeped in the science of the game unlike anyone before him, his ball speed + control is unlike anyone before him (on Tour) and he's showing that mass matters a lot in golf, mass to support the strength needed to put that kind of speed into the ball at impact. But if he is an anomaly and no one really follows suit would that be an obvious non sea change? Other factors will likely rear their heads, like golf rulilng bodies and course architecture and retrofitting courses to accommodate the new BDs. Some here have posted good ideas for denying 350 yard straight drivers an advantage---but shouldn't it be an advantage if you can hit it farther than anyone and not lose too much dispersion?

 

[nsxguy]

Only reason I ever heard of "thin to win" is back around Y2K I went to the Ken Venturi school in Orlando for a weekend and his school's "mantra" was "thin to win".

[Nels55]

Fun topic! Thanks! Sometimes in sports all it takes is for one person to show that something is possible. Bryson has shown that it is possible to hit the ball at much higher ball speeds while still keeping it in play. So, this could indeed be a 'sea change' as other golfers (and coaches) will see that it can be done and then figure a way to do it themselves. This could be copying what Bryson is doing or coming up with another way possibly another version of ' mass to blast' or something along the lines of a more traditional approach. Heck all Tony Finau has to do is take a normal length backswing and he has the ball speed...

[Ghost of Snead]

I would question whether mass really matters in the golf swing. Speed matters as proven by Jamie Sadlowski.

BD is swinging out of his shoes to get to 135 and is using a ~5° driver. I'd be willing to bet that if DJ, Rory, JT, or Wolff picked up that driver and swung it all out, they could get close to 135 and hit it as far.

Question is whether BD can continue to keep it in play.

[doublehans]

If you look at the guys in long drive competitions, isnt sadlowski more the exception than the rule? The majority of those guys are monsters compared to their tour counterparts.

now the Tour might be different where accuracy is at a premium, so its not purely about distance, but the long drive guys would crush the tour in a tug of war contest.

sadlowski more just shows bulk isnt the only way, but that doesnt mean its not a good path.

 

[smashdn]

Regarding mass. The few times I have watched the long drive competitions the guys are not built like DJ. They are big, broud shouldered, barrel chested guys with built up thighs. The ladies are built up as well.

[Ghost of Snead]

A lot of the longest drivers on Tour are not big guys - Rory, Champ, Xander, Fleetwood, JT, Wolff, etc. And they've obviously got what BD thought he was missing - speed. JT or someone his size could attempt what BD has done and lose his swing. Bulking up has obviously worked for BD so far but we'll see long term if he can keep it up and in play without injury.

 

[juliette91]

Yes the topic lives on much longer than I thought it would given all the other BD offshoots on this website. It's also heartening that almost to a poster there was no in your face sarcastic snippy remarks, the discussion was candid and forthright with everyone chiming in with their version of what sea change means. I'm encouraged to see strong opinions expressed in a way that does not demean those whose viewpoints are opposed to the poster's. All together it makes this golf forum a good, safe and informative place to think about topics and put your two cents in.

[bscinstnct]

 

And this is really the point as far as this “sea change”. It’s a very individual game.

 

Is Rory going to now start sucking down food to gain 40 pounds of mostly fat?

 

Is Tommy Fleetwood going to eat double potions of fish n chips?

 

Is anyone really going to embark on getting overweight in order to try to hit the ball farther?

 

No.

 

Well, maybe some desperate people on the fringe who will soon find that throwing on 30 pounds of fat is far more detrimental than of benefit.

 

But the young guys with great game, the JTs Wolffs, they have their own individual approach and will perfect things how they see fit.

 

Is Collin Morikawa, 5’9 160lbs, leading this week, going to start eating bacon and eggs and two Protein shakes for breakfast? ?

 

Look at this swing. He going to mess around with it or his clubs?

 

[Oldboy]

He’s not just hitting it 20-40yds past Rory and DJ. He’s keeping it pretty darn straight. Sea change? Not sure but it’s sure got everyone’s attention. Even this new influx of pandemic golfers have noticed BDC 365 in casual conversations with them.

[torbill]

Juliette, I have read your response 3X, and I have no idea what point you are trying to make. What is it that you are saying about science? Please advise. I know more in my little finger about science, and mechanics in particular, than BD will ever know, and I don’t see science. I see a tremendously strong PGA tour player. I see nothing that is any more sciency in what he is doing that what the next person is doing. I have never seen an explanation, based on mechanical forces and motions, that suggest that he has found a fundamentally better way to swing a golf club. I have never seen him explain it; I have never seen anybody else who knows what s/he is talking about explain it. What I do see is that he has become a tremendously strong player with a nuanced swing that is working very well for him (I hope that his spine is very sound and strong).

Until you can explain more clearly what point you are trying to make, in a way that I can respond, I will stick with my point: There is a long-term trend toward better bodies, as well as better technique and better equipment, that is creating improvements in distance. BD is above the trend line, but he is not changing the slope of the trend because he is physically able to do what most players will never be able to do. There cannot be a sea change if most players physically cannot get there. Therefore he is an anomaly, albeit a fun anomaly to watch, and I wish him well.

[Dave230]

Funnily enough Brett Quigley went from winning $247,000 in 2000 to $956,000 in 2001, he went from just outside the top 150 to just outside the top 50 on the money list. So the percentage gain was probably the same as Bryson, maybe even better relative to where he was.

The difference is that Bryson was already a top 20 player, 25th on the money list in 2019 and 4th in 2018. So that increase could be from the tier below the very best to being the best.

Quigley was then 70th in 2002, so I don't know if he dialled it back or couldn't maintain it but he was never that long again. I wonder can Bryson maintain it over several seasons.

[juliette91]

Well, point taken for sure. I think I played too fast and loose with the word "science" and you schooled me on it. The more I think about it the more your explanation of BD's prowess and accomplishments ring truer than my analysis. That's what good discussions do if people are willing to listen to vetted or reasonable information instead of entrenching and only thinking about defending their positions. Could be a better world, too!