Pure745's 2014 Shootout - Update 6/15/14

[Pure745]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1393904631' post='8792601']
G25 Driver w/ Oban Black?
TEE XCG7's??? They will be to long probably.
[/quote]

Not sure about that G25, saw the i25 today in person, racing strips look 100x better in person and are not very noticeable. Shape looks good.. G25, not sure I can get over that shape! I'm OCD about my driver and 3wd matching, you know that!!

[quote name='kmbean' timestamp='1393905540' post='8792691']
Anyone here hit the covert 2.0 tour 3 wood? Any comments?
Thanks!
[/quote]

Check page 1 for my pics. The CT 2.0 is noticeably lower launching and spinning than the CT1.0. Also, has a great muted sound, sound and feel is great. I prefer the look of the Performance model from address, but the CT2.0 is a really great club.

[paul1406]

I like the feel of the 2.0 better than the 1.0 covert as the sound is more muted, but the longer heel to toe length of the 1.0 has me more confident on the course. I'd be interested to know what the frequency rating of the shafts you have are measured at with their current heads. It would be interesting to see if the CPM of the ones you prefer compare to your long irons. I've been trying to match up my set to gain a consistent feel along with swing weight. Getting everything to match has me believing I can put a similar swing up with each club as I transition. My "older" (913Fd) was measured at 284 CPM which was much higher than my 712U and Driver. I had the Speeder 8.3 TS x tipped 1". I have the 1.0 Covert now at 268CPM w/ KK tini 70x but the SW is high (D5.5) at 43". I'm thinking about trimming to 42" to reduce SW. Also looking at changing the shaft because of the light weight of the 70 when I'm used to a much heavier shaft/club overall. Looking for D4-D3 SW with an 80-90g shaft. Does this mean I should look into counterbalanced shafts?

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393906269' post='8792795']
[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1393904631' post='8792601']
G25 Driver w/ Oban Black?
TEE XCG7's??? They will be to long probably.
[/quote]

Not sure about that G25, saw the i25 today in person, racing strips look 100x better in person and are not very noticeable. Shape looks good.. G25, not sure I can get over that shape! I'm OCD about my driver and 3wd matching, you know that!!

[/quote]

"If" I was in the market for a 3W, the XG7 would be on my very short list.

[stage1350]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393864062' post='8787328']
[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1393863208' post='8787234']
I think everyone is just waiting for the selloff on the ones that don't make the cut...
[/quote]

You ever try out those Modus 120TX's? The FH1000 PC's I got have them in there, interested to hear what you thought of them.
[/quote]

Ready to roll in a set of Mizuno MP-63 irons. Now I just need to get rid of the 4 inches of snow on the ground.

I hope they are good. I have another set of TX shafts on the way. I'm either going to be dumping a bunch of DG Tour X7 shafts, or the Nippons will be on the BST.

[rymail00]

[quote name='paul1406' timestamp='1393909100' post='8793085']
I like the feel of the 2.0 better than the 1.0 covert as the sound is more muted, but the longer heel to toe length of the 1.0 has me more confident on the course. I'd be interested to know what the frequency rating of the shafts you have are measured at with their current heads. It would be interesting to see if the CPM of the ones you prefer compare to your long irons. I've been trying to match up my set to gain a consistent feel along with swing weight. Getting everything to match has me believing I can put a similar swing up with each club as I transition. My "older" (913Fd) was measured at 284 CPM which was much higher than my 712U and Driver. I had the Speeder 8.3 TS x tipped 1". I have the 1.0 Covert now at 268CPM w/ KK tini 70x but the SW is high (D5.5) at 43". I'm thinking about trimming to 42" to reduce SW. Also looking at changing the shaft because of the light weight of the 70 when I'm used to a much heavier shaft/club overall. Looking for D4-D3 SW with an 80-90g shaft. Does this mean I should look into counterbalanced shafts?
[/quote]

This is just my opinion but...doesnt CPM just measure the butt stiffness? So there for comparing CPM of one shaft make, to a different shaft make, kinda make it hard to compare since most shafts have different bend profiles. I could be wrong though, thats just what i thought...

[hayzooos]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393343688' post='8741618']
[quote name='peterra671' timestamp='1393322040' post='8740204']
How much tipping in your 661? I remember swanry saying they come with 7" parallel tips?!?! When I hit the demo, which I'm assuming was untipped, the shaft felt much softer than my 7.2TS and even my D+. Wasn't able to hit the 757, which I was really looking forward to.

Anxious to hear how the Rogue plays.
[/quote]

661 is tipped 1.75" and the 757 2.5" in the 3WD. Seems like a lot of tipping, but really doesn't feel like it at all, ball flight is still really nice, I would say a mid launch with really good dispersion.
[/quote]

Joining this one a bit late, but wanted to ask a question. How do you go about finding out the correct amount of tipping? Example, most 3 woods would be tipped 1", so do you already know you need to tip more? I wouldn't think such a place would exist to try different amounts of tipping at different lengths, but I might be wrong too.

Would you order it tipped maybe 1.5" (if you know you require more than the usual tipping) and 1/2" longer in case you want to tip it more? I'm just curious as to the process you use to dial everything in. It's obvious you have disposable income for clubs (and floors, hahaha) but I wouldn't think you'd order 3 shafts of the same make and tip them all differently...

[Pure745]

[quote name='hayzooos' timestamp='1393970027' post='8798061']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393343688' post='8741618']
[quote name='peterra671' timestamp='1393322040' post='8740204']
How much tipping in your 661? I remember swanry saying they come with 7" parallel tips?!?! When I hit the demo, which I'm assuming was untipped, the shaft felt much softer than my 7.2TS and even my D+. Wasn't able to hit the 757, which I was really looking forward to.

Anxious to hear how the Rogue plays.
[/quote]

661 is tipped 1.75" and the 757 2.5" in the 3WD. Seems like a lot of tipping, but really doesn't feel like it at all, ball flight is still really nice, I would say a mid launch with really good dispersion.
[/quote]

Joining this one a bit late, but wanted to ask a question. How do you go about finding out the correct amount of tipping? Example, most 3 woods would be tipped 1", so do you already know you need to tip more? I wouldn't think such a place would exist to try different amounts of tipping at different lengths, but I might be wrong too.

Would you order it tipped maybe 1.5" (if you know you require more than the usual tipping) and 1/2" longer in case you want to tip it more? I'm just curious as to the process you use to dial everything in. It's obvious you have disposable income for clubs (and floors, hahaha) but I wouldn't think you'd order 3 shafts of the same make and tip them all differently...
[/quote]

Most of it is trusting my builder who I have been going to for years, and now is doing builds for LPGA/PGA guys and using his input based on him knowing my swing etc. But really, I buy the shafts new and raw, take into account what is the required tipping, and then tip it further from there to get to the freq/cpm range I usually play my stuff in and him knowing the characteristics of the shafts to make sure the tipping will give the desired flight and spin I'm after. The 661/757 definitely needed more tipping than say the .2TS and he has worked with them on some tour builds he has done so I trusted whatever he wanted to do with the shafts. They turned out great in the Coverts!

[rymail00]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393996053' post='8801109']
[quote name='hayzooos' timestamp='1393970027' post='8798061']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393343688' post='8741618']
[quote name='peterra671' timestamp='1393322040' post='8740204']
How much tipping in your 661? I remember swanry saying they come with 7" parallel tips?!?! When I hit the demo, which I'm assuming was untipped, the shaft felt much softer than my 7.2TS and even my D+. Wasn't able to hit the 757, which I was really looking forward to.

Anxious to hear how the Rogue plays.
[/quote]

661 is tipped 1.75" and the 757 2.5" in the 3WD. Seems like a lot of tipping, but really doesn't feel like it at all, ball flight is still really nice, I would say a mid launch with really good dispersion.
[/quote]

Joining this one a bit late, but wanted to ask a question. How do you go about finding out the correct amount of tipping? Example, most 3 woods would be tipped 1", so do you already know you need to tip more? I wouldn't think such a place would exist to try different amounts of tipping at different lengths, but I might be wrong too.

Would you order it tipped maybe 1.5" (if you know you require more than the usual tipping) and 1/2" longer in case you want to tip it more? I'm just curious as to the process you use to dial everything in. It's obvious you have disposable income for clubs (and floors, hahaha) but I wouldn't think you'd order 3 shafts of the same make and tip them all differently...
[/quote]

Most of it is trusting my builder who I have been going to for years, and now is doing builds for LPGA/PGA guys and using his input based on him knowing my swing etc. But really, I buy the shafts new and raw, take into account what is the required tipping, and then tip it further from there to get to the freq/cpm range I usually play my stuff in and him knowing the characteristics of the shafts to make sure the tipping will give the desired flight and spin I'm after. The 661/757 definitely needed more tipping than say the .2TS and he has worked with them on some tour builds he has done so I trusted whatever he wanted to do with the shafts. They turned out great in the Coverts!
[/quote]

Tai,

I like my ilima 70 stiff in my 9015d driver, untipped. if i put that in a SLDR, do i have to tip it .5'' to have it play like it did in the 9015d?

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='rymail00' timestamp='1393998987' post='8801305']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393996053' post='8801109']
[quote name='hayzooos' timestamp='1393970027' post='8798061']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393343688' post='8741618']
[quote name='peterra671' timestamp='1393322040' post='8740204']
How much tipping in your 661? I remember swanry saying they come with 7" parallel tips?!?! When I hit the demo, which I'm assuming was untipped, the shaft felt much softer than my 7.2TS and even my D+. Wasn't able to hit the 757, which I was really looking forward to.

Anxious to hear how the Rogue plays.
[/quote]

661 is tipped 1.75" and the 757 2.5" in the 3WD. Seems like a lot of tipping, but really doesn't feel like it at all, ball flight is still really nice, I would say a mid launch with really good dispersion.
[/quote]

Joining this one a bit late, but wanted to ask a question. How do you go about finding out the correct amount of tipping? Example, most 3 woods would be tipped 1", so do you already know you need to tip more? I wouldn't think such a place would exist to try different amounts of tipping at different lengths, but I might be wrong too.

Would you order it tipped maybe 1.5" (if you know you require more than the usual tipping) and 1/2" longer in case you want to tip it more? I'm just curious as to the process you use to dial everything in. It's obvious you have disposable income for clubs (and floors, hahaha) but I wouldn't think you'd order 3 shafts of the same make and tip them all differently...
[/quote]

Most of it is trusting my builder who I have been going to for years, and now is doing builds for LPGA/PGA guys and using his input based on him knowing my swing etc. But really, I buy the shafts new and raw, take into account what is the required tipping, and then tip it further from there to get to the freq/cpm range I usually play my stuff in and him knowing the characteristics of the shafts to make sure the tipping will give the desired flight and spin I'm after. The 661/757 definitely needed more tipping than say the .2TS and he has worked with them on some tour builds he has done so I trusted whatever he wanted to do with the shafts. They turned out great in the Coverts!
[/quote]

Tai,

I like my ilima 70 stiff in my 9015d driver, untipped. if i put that in a SLDR, do i have to tip it .5'' to have it play like it did in the 9015d?
[/quote]

I was told at the Kingdom that 1" tipping is standard in aftermarket shafts.

[Pure745]

^ Yup!

[Elpresidente]

Are you sure, you say you have to tip it at least 1" to play true to flex in an SLDR or do i understand this wrong??

thanks

[Pure745]

[quote name='Elpresidente' timestamp='1394025984' post='8802197']
Are you sure, you say you have to tip it at least 1" to play true to flex in an SLDR or do i understand this wrong??

thanks
[/quote]

I believe that is the recommendation. I know the Speeders in my CT2.0's were tipped more due to the heavy heads. I'm sure it varies with different shafts, but if that's what they recommended to Scratch at the Kingdom, I have no reason to doubt that suggestion.

[Pure745]

Also, getting the Rogue spec'd out for play in the SLDR and ATX Green TX for the 3 wood and hybrid. Had a 661/757 duplicated for the SLDR's, fitter said they required less tipping than the Nike's did to get them to the correct cpm/freq. Last to arrive is the Matrix TPHDe 6 and 7, and then off to do some tinkering

My gut feeling right now is that the SLDR is going to be really tough to beat and I'm interested to hear the numbers and how everything else stacks up, especially with what I have been seeing on the course.

[hayzooos]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393996053' post='8801109']
[quote name='hayzooos' timestamp='1393970027' post='8798061']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393343688' post='8741618']
[quote name='peterra671' timestamp='1393322040' post='8740204']
How much tipping in your 661? I remember swanry saying they come with 7" parallel tips?!?! When I hit the demo, which I'm assuming was untipped, the shaft felt much softer than my 7.2TS and even my D+. Wasn't able to hit the 757, which I was really looking forward to.

Anxious to hear how the Rogue plays.
[/quote]

661 is tipped 1.75" and the 757 2.5" in the 3WD. Seems like a lot of tipping, but really doesn't feel like it at all, ball flight is still really nice, I would say a mid launch with really good dispersion.
[/quote]

Joining this one a bit late, but wanted to ask a question. How do you go about finding out the correct amount of tipping? Example, most 3 woods would be tipped 1", so do you already know you need to tip more? I wouldn't think such a place would exist to try different amounts of tipping at different lengths, but I might be wrong too.

Would you order it tipped maybe 1.5" (if you know you require more than the usual tipping) and 1/2" longer in case you want to tip it more? I'm just curious as to the process you use to dial everything in. It's obvious you have disposable income for clubs (and floors, hahaha) but I wouldn't think you'd order 3 shafts of the same make and tip them all differently...
[/quote]

Most of it is trusting my builder who I have been going to for years, and now is doing builds for LPGA/PGA guys and using his input based on him knowing my swing etc. But really, I buy the shafts new and raw, take into account what is the required tipping, and then tip it further from there to get to the freq/cpm range I usually play my stuff in and him knowing the characteristics of the shafts to make sure the tipping will give the desired flight and spin I'm after. The 661/757 definitely needed more tipping than say the .2TS and he has worked with them on some tour builds he has done so I trusted whatever he wanted to do with the shafts. They turned out great in the Coverts!
[/quote]

I figured a lot of it had to do with having a guy build your clubs you go to frequently so he knows his stuff and your swing. Thanks for the response.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1394028650' post='8802431']
[quote name='Elpresidente' timestamp='1394025984' post='8802197']
Are you sure, you say you have to tip it at least 1" to play true to flex in an SLDR or do i understand this wrong??

thanks
[/quote]

I believe that is the recommendation. I know the Speeders in my CT2.0's were tipped more due to the heavy heads. I'm sure it varies with different shafts, but if that's what they recommended to Scratch at the Kingdom, I have no reason to doubt that suggestion.
[/quote]

The guys words were "we tip all driver shafts 1", that is just standard". Granted this guy is used to fitting and building clubs for tour players, I did not ask if there was another standard for sub 110 swings. Just took it for what it was.

[rymail00]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1393999362' post='8801329']
[quote name='rymail00' timestamp='1393998987' post='8801305']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393996053' post='8801109']
[quote name='hayzooos' timestamp='1393970027' post='8798061']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1393343688' post='8741618']
[quote name='peterra671' timestamp='1393322040' post='8740204']
How much tipping in your 661? I remember swanry saying they come with 7" parallel tips?!?! When I hit the demo, which I'm assuming was untipped, the shaft felt much softer than my 7.2TS and even my D+. Wasn't able to hit the 757, which I was really looking forward to.

Anxious to hear how the Rogue plays.
[/quote]

661 is tipped 1.75" and the 757 2.5" in the 3WD. Seems like a lot of tipping, but really doesn't feel like it at all, ball flight is still really nice, I would say a mid launch with really good dispersion.
[/quote]

Joining this one a bit late, but wanted to ask a question. How do you go about finding out the correct amount of tipping? Example, most 3 woods would be tipped 1", so do you already know you need to tip more? I wouldn't think such a place would exist to try different amounts of tipping at different lengths, but I might be wrong too.

Would you order it tipped maybe 1.5" (if you know you require more than the usual tipping) and 1/2" longer in case you want to tip it more? I'm just curious as to the process you use to dial everything in. It's obvious you have disposable income for clubs (and floors, hahaha) but I wouldn't think you'd order 3 shafts of the same make and tip them all differently...
[/quote]

Most of it is trusting my builder who I have been going to for years, and now is doing builds for LPGA/PGA guys and using his input based on him knowing my swing etc. But really, I buy the shafts new and raw, take into account what is the required tipping, and then tip it further from there to get to the freq/cpm range I usually play my stuff in and him knowing the characteristics of the shafts to make sure the tipping will give the desired flight and spin I'm after. The 661/757 definitely needed more tipping than say the .2TS and he has worked with them on some tour builds he has done so I trusted whatever he wanted to do with the shafts. They turned out great in the Coverts!
[/quote]

Tai,

I like my ilima 70 stiff in my 9015d driver, untipped. if i put that in a SLDR, do i have to tip it .5'' to have it play like it did in the 9015d?
[/quote]

I was told at the Kingdom that 1" tipping is standard in aftermarket shafts.
[/quote]

Wow!!! An inch, huh...i would of never guessed.

[BidenTP]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1394037377' post='8803465']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1394028650' post='8802431']
[quote name='Elpresidente' timestamp='1394025984' post='8802197']
Are you sure, you say you have to tip it at least 1" to play true to flex in an SLDR or do i understand this wrong??

thanks
[/quote]

I believe that is the recommendation. I know the Speeders in my CT2.0's were tipped more due to the heavy heads. I'm sure it varies with different shafts, but if that's what they recommended to Scratch at the Kingdom, I have no reason to doubt that suggestion.
[/quote]

The guys words were "we tip all driver shafts 1", that is just standard". Granted this guy is used to fitting and building clubs for tour players, I did not ask if there was another standard for sub 110 swings. Just took it for what it was.
[/quote]

So does that mean they tip all their SLDR drivers 1" without you asking?

Because I am looking at getting the SLDR 10.5* with the fujikura 757. I'm trying to get to the kingdom down here outside of Atlanta to be fitted but it's really hard with my work schedule since they don't do fittings on the weekend. So I was just thinking about ordering it because I used to play the old 757 and loved it and the people at fujikura told me that if I loves the old one I'm going to love the new one even more.

[BidenTP]

I was wondering of you have had the chance to try the .3 TS line? If you have, I was wondering how it compares to the 661/757?

Also, how do you like the 661 in the driver vs going with the 757 in driver?

[stage1350]

Tipping should not scare people. They are compensating for the OEM tip.

Then again, it should scare the untipped X crowd that should actually play a properly tipped S.

[OspreyCI]

Pure,
See you are testing SLDR 10.5 in the 460 and 430. Can you comment on the differences in performance and forgiveness in your opinion.

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere in the thread.

[JJK947]

Is the Fuji .2 TS basically unplayable in the 430? You and scratch were hitting it in pretty much everything before the 430. I'm wondering if I should be looking to pick up some other shafts to try in my 430 when I get it. At 110-112 avg. I'm definitely in the "untipped X" crowd (at least when it comes to the .2 TS line). The 661 is intriguing, is it more of a mid launch like a DI6 or is it more of a mid-low like the .3 TS and BB6?

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1394133416' post='8812803']
Tipping should not scare people. They are compensating for the OEM tip.

Then again, it should scare the untipped X crowd that should actually play a properly tipped S.
[/quote]

Any tip is essentially an extension being added to the end of the shaft. Makes the tip softer, tipping gets it back to spec.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1394141941' post='8813857']
Is the Fuji .2 TS basically unplayable in the 430? You and scratch were hitting it in pretty much everything before the 430. I'm wondering if I should be looking to pick up some other shafts to try in my 430 when I get it. At 110-112 avg. I'm definitely in the "untipped X" crowd (at least when it comes to the .2 TS line). The 661 is intriguing, is it more of a mid launch like a DI6 or is it more of a mid-low like the .3 TS and BB6?
[/quote]

I did not try the 6.2 in the SLDR but I would like to. I certianly don think it's unplayable and would probably work really well. For me the change in shafts was simply to try something new and to get a little more feel out of the shaft.

What loft 430 did you get?

[Dizz]

[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1394141941' post='8813857']
Is the Fuji .2 TS basically unplayable in the 430? You and scratch were hitting it in pretty much everything before the 430. I'm wondering if I should be looking to pick up some other shafts to try in my 430 when I get it. At 110-112 avg. I'm definitely in the "untipped X" crowd (at least when it comes to the .2 TS line). The 661 is intriguing, is it more of a mid launch like a DI6 or is it more of a mid-low like the .3 TS and BB6?
[/quote]

Think its also good to realize that your classifications there from mid to mid/low is really not a dynamic difference.

I have some notes from fitting 10-12 very good players and the difference between DI vs BB in the same weight + tipping is sub 200 rpm's... don't have them right next to me but believe it was like 160 rpm. Same thing with .2TS and .3TS, everyone was a little different but even the biggest disparity from those two was 220 rpm's with an average around 150 rpm. All these different high end exotics feel different and play a little different depending on who's playing them-- you should always test them for yourself if possible because fitting "on paper" isn't fool proof. The longest player I have is 190 ball speed and a world class player. The absolute lowest spinning shaft we've found for him is 7M3 Black Tie but it wasn't the lowest launching/spinning for the vast majority of the rest of them. If you read around here, there are plenty of guys that don't feel the same way.

I just tested 661, 757, 6.3TS and 7.2TS in the same head-- they were in that order from highest to lowest. For me, from 661 to 7.2TS the difference was 250 rpm's... the last 3 shafts in that group from 757 to 7.2TS were within .3 launch and 150 rpm's of spin. 6.3TS and 757 I think feel similarly, 757 about 10 grams heavier but I can't feel it throughout the club. I found 7.2TS a couple years ago when the guy I was working with recommended it and told me that this would be the hottest shaft on tour in the near future... loved it from day 1. But for me I can get the same (very similar) performance from a slightly better feeling .3TS which is something I'm more comfortable playing for 18 holes and not just swinging away on the range with Doppler.

I think the feel of the shaft and getting that right where its comfortable ends up being more important than the couple hundred rpm's you may drop.

With that said it also depends on the style of head you want to play as well as the loft of the head. Certain heads give certain players a little more flexibility in shaft selection. If you're a high speed, high launch/spin player than a head like SLDR gives you so more options as far as shafts go that will give you optimal numbers while retaining your preferred feel. There are still some high speed players that naturally spin it low-- have a guy that has 175+ ball speed... world class amateur that plays a G25 at 11 degrees with a Kiyoshi Purple shaft... its 65-05 tipped 1" but he still struggles to spin it over 2000. Hates the feel of the tip stiff shafts and if he played something like Anser or SLDR he'd need it in 12-13+ degrees of loft. There are just trade off's and you gotta pick the ones that make more sense for your game.

[JJK947]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1394177447' post='8817719']
[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1394141941' post='8813857']
Is the Fuji .2 TS basically unplayable in the 430? You and scratch were hitting it in pretty much everything before the 430. I'm wondering if I should be looking to pick up some other shafts to try in my 430 when I get it. At 110-112 avg. I'm definitely in the "untipped X" crowd (at least when it comes to the .2 TS line). The 661 is intriguing, is it more of a mid launch like a DI6 or is it more of a mid-low like the .3 TS and BB6?
[/quote]

I did not try the 6.2 in the SLDR but I would like to. I certianly don think it's unplayable and would probably work really well. For me the change in shafts was simply to try something new and to get a little more feel out of the shaft.

What loft 430 did you get?
[/quote]

I'm getting the 10.5*, mostly because the 6.2 TS has been so good for me and I'd rather open it to dial it in than close it.

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1394180792' post='8817769']
[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1394141941' post='8813857']
Is the Fuji .2 TS basically unplayable in the 430? You and scratch were hitting it in pretty much everything before the 430. I'm wondering if I should be looking to pick up some other shafts to try in my 430 when I get it. At 110-112 avg. I'm definitely in the "untipped X" crowd (at least when it comes to the .2 TS line). The 661 is intriguing, is it more of a mid launch like a DI6 or is it more of a mid-low like the .3 TS and BB6?
[/quote]

Think its also good to realize that your classifications there from mid to mid/low is really not a dynamic difference.

I have some notes from fitting 10-12 very good players and the difference between DI vs BB in the same weight + tipping is sub 200 rpm's... don't have them right next to me but believe it was like 160 rpm. Same thing with .2TS and .3TS, everyone was a little different but even the biggest disparity from those two was 220 rpm's with an average around 150 rpm. All these different high end exotics feel different and play a little different depending on who's playing them-- you should always test them for yourself if possible because fitting "on paper" isn't fool proof. The longest player I have is 190 ball speed and a world class player. The absolute lowest spinning shaft we've found for him is 7M3 Black Tie but it wasn't the lowest launching/spinning for the vast majority of the rest of them. If you read around here, there are plenty of guys that don't feel the same way.

I just tested 661, 757, 6.3TS and 7.2TS in the same head-- they were in that order from highest to lowest. For me, from 661 to 7.2TS the difference was 250 rpm's... the last 3 shafts in that group from 757 to 7.2TS were within .3 launch and 150 rpm's of spin. 6.3TS and 757 I think feel similarly, 757 about 10 grams heavier but I can't feel it throughout the club. I found 7.2TS a couple years ago when the guy I was working with recommended it and told me that this would be the hottest shaft on tour in the near future... loved it from day 1. But for me I can get the same (very similar) performance from a slightly better feeling .3TS which is something I'm more comfortable playing for 18 holes and not just swinging away on the range with Doppler.

I think the feel of the shaft and getting that right where its comfortable ends up being more important than the couple hundred rpm's you may drop.

With that said it also depends on the style of head you want to play as well as the loft of the head. Certain heads give certain players a little more flexibility in shaft selection. If you're a high speed, high launch/spin player than a head like SLDR gives you so more options as far as shafts go that will give you optimal numbers while retaining your preferred feel. There are still some high speed players that naturally spin it low-- have a guy that has 175+ ball speed... world class amateur that plays a G25 at 11 degrees with a Kiyoshi Purple shaft... its 65-05 tipped 1" but he still struggles to spin it over 2000. Hates the feel of the tip stiff shafts and if he played something like Anser or SLDR he'd need it in 12-13+ degrees of loft. There are just trade off's and you gotta pick the ones that make more sense for your game.
[/quote]

Thanks for the post. Everything said is very true. I think context and reference point is also very important as well. Pretty much all the shafts we talk about in this thread are on the stouter, lower launch/spin spectrum if you take into account the full picture. So the range of launch and spin is relatively small. We're also not quite world class players so the performance on slight mishits comes into account as well. This is where the 6.2 TS has been so good for me.

And you're right feel is is also a big factor in the numbers you ultimately get so that gets thrown into the mid vs. mid-low stuff as well. Just an easy way of classifying a shaft within the relatively small range of shafts (performance wise) that get reviewed and talked about in here. But yes, if we are speaking in absolutes then mid and mid-low are kind of vague and inaccurate when talking about the difference between those mentioned shafts.

[Pure745]

Got the Rogue out today for the first time, definitely performed well. I'm playing in a 3 day fun tournament and one of the guys attending has his own Trackman. I had the Rogue on it and the numbers were pretty solid. Ball speeds were ranging from 170-176mph, spin was in the 2200-2500 range, and launch was around 12-14. We were really just messing around on the Trackman before we teed off, but it was really cool and makes me wish I had my own Trackman to use. The shaft felt really stable and literally jumped on the Trackman without ever hitting it and those were the numbers. Translated well onto the course, solid shaft.

[dunn]

SLDR is good head but stay away from hits low on face....not good on this head at all

[bjackson]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1394260983' post='8824613']
Got the Rogue out today for the first time, definitely performed well. I'm playing in a 3 day fun tournament and one of the guys attending has his own Trackman. I had the Rogue on it and the numbers were pretty solid. Ball speeds were ranging from 170-176mph, spin was in the 2200-2500 range, and launch was around 12-14. We were really just messing around on the Trackman before we teed off, but it was really cool and makes me wish I had my own Trackman to use. The shaft felt really stable and literally jumped on the Trackman without ever hitting it and those were the numbers. Translated well onto the course, solid shaft.
[/quote]

Nice numbers!

[Pure745]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1394267771' post='8824773']
SLDR is good head but stay away from hits low on face....not good on this head at all
[/quote]

I have found the complete opposite, for me, low on the face is a really long miss. Almost everyone else I know has similar feedback re: the low miss on the SLDR.

[quote name='bjackson' timestamp='1394299835' post='8826533']
[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1394260983' post='8824613']
Got the Rogue out today for the first time, definitely performed well. I'm playing in a 3 day fun tournament and one of the guys attending has his own Trackman. I had the Rogue on it and the numbers were pretty solid. Ball speeds were ranging from 170-176mph, spin was in the 2200-2500 range, and launch was around 12-14. We were really just messing around on the Trackman before we teed off, but it was really cool and makes me wish I had my own Trackman to use. The shaft felt really stable and literally jumped on the Trackman without ever hitting it and those were the numbers. Translated well onto the course, solid shaft.
[/quote]

Nice numbers!
[/quote]

Thanks Ben. Was pretty stoked my buddy brought the Trackman, even more shocked that he has his own! I just wish he lived closer The Rogue is really stable and straight, pretty much made my BB look really bad at this tourney in the same SLDR tour head.

[Pure716]

Pure, I had an interesting test run with the 430 this weekend. Like before, I didn't want to take over your thread, so I sent a pm. Curious to hear your thoughts.