Golf is dying: "lost 5 million players in the last decade... another 5 million will quit in the next

[Forged4ever]

The game is fine....

Oh, and those 5 mill that have left the game?

Not even close to enough....

Keep em movin

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard

[RiskyBusiness]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1419498974' post='10640151']
The game is fine....

Oh, and those 5 mill that have left the game?

Not even close to enough....

Keep em movin

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard
[/quote]

As long as they stay off my lawn.

[mcshooter]

Some of the courses around here will probably get crowded as over half of our local ones are closed or are closing. Two of them are city owned courses.. the course I play has had 16 leagues call for a opening..i just did the math and of our 8 local ones 5 are closing this year.. ouch

[Ruddy]

As a financial venture, golf is a high risk investment. The initial capital investment is huge to build a golf course, and the maintenance in horticulture and mowing machinery is substantial. The return, in terms of club memberships and green fees, are a financial trickle compared to the initial outlay. Golf course investment is similar to farming investment. A huge initial capital investment in land and machinery, and the slimmest marginal profits take years to reap. There are too many lower risk, faster returns for venture capital.

[knockdstiff]

Show me someone who doesn't stand to lose millions of dollars and is worried about this so-called "death" of the game.

The day I show up at a course and think "Wow....there really isn't enough people here"......well....that'll be the day.

The industry is facing up against a basic economic reality. We built too many courses in a very short amount of time and then everyone remembered that golf is really hard. Land is expensive. Other investments will compete for that land and and golf will inevitably lose. The game makes very little sense from an economic standpoint, but I do love it. There will still be golf courses - maybe fewer - but this "crisis" is strictly a millionaire's problem.

[The7thLetter]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1419498974' post='10640151']
The game is fine....

Oh, and those 5 mill that have left the game?

Not even close to enough....

Keep em movin

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard
[/quote]

Bingo. Let them go.

[JWells]

When you pay $60+ for a 5 hour round on. Sub par course with dead spots all over like we do in the DC area. I don't say good riddance. I say I feel the death of this game.
(I don't need to hear about stupid deals for cheaper rounds that's not my point nor is practical)

[sappytop]

my gf at the time was watching golf on TV with me and she said...how do they make the ball turn like that when they putt?

i explained the balls turn because the greens have undulations and putting is really challenging cuz you have to figure out the correct speed and how much slope/break each putt has.

she said...wow, golf is hard.

[RiskyBusiness]

[quote name='sappytop' timestamp='1444408799' post='12433406']
my gf at the time was watching golf on TV with me and she said...how do they make the ball turn like that when they putt?

i explained the balls turn because the greens have undulations and putting is really challenging cuz you have to figure out the correct speed and how much slope/break each putt has.

she said...wow, golf is hard.
[/quote]
Pics...

[NoTalentLefty]

Golf in the Midwest is alive but noticing that the munis are not spending money on upkeep. More people golfing privately owned courses but that is from the drain from the munis. While golf won't die totally, it will shrink.

[thug the bunny]

[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1419498692' post='10640147']
I loved the post about the single being asked if he had a tee time on a wide open course. I play 3-4 times a week and I haven't made a tee time in 4 years. Sometimes when I walk on they ask me if I have a tee time and I turn and point to the desolate vista on 1 and 10 as the crickets chirp and answer, "Why bother?". Twice in 2014 I played on days the course was open and I was the ONLY golfer to show up all day.

The question of golf's ultimate survival is not the question you should be asking. You should be asking, "[u][b]Will golf survive AROUND WHERE I LIVE?[/b][/u]"

Golf has only been around my corner of civilization for 100 years, not 500 hundred. For the first 400 years it was a game played by a few Scottish shepherds, no one else. What were there -- 35 total contestants in the Open when Old Tom Morris played? Is that the kind of golf we want to return to? I hope not.

In my area 2014 was worse than 2013 and 2015 is shaping up to be worse still. One course closed when a developer went to the city with a simple plan. He said he'd carve off 50 acres and build the city a good park with ball diamonds and soccer fields, buying the rest for himself with zoning for luxury homesites. City said, "Hella good deal!", then held a hearing, no objections, gavel banged, done deal. This is the shape of things to come.

Two other local muni's just forced their head pro's to retire, promoting their assistants. They will NOT be replacing the assistants.

The county has 3 courses slated for closure and one of the three on the chopping block is probably unsaveable. It's a good links at the airport, I played there on a Thursday afternoon in August and the clubhouse was locked up. Only one staffer on duty, so when he has an errand he just leaves. Happens quite a bit, said the girl in the restaurant. I played for free. Half the water hazards were drained into caked mudflats. It's a goner.

The state tried to find a buyer/management company for the 6 fine courses it owns. No takers, so they're stuck.

Many Golfnow specials can be had at fine courses for good tee times, with cart, for under $1 per hole.

Bottom line, I predict 4 closures statewide and no new openings in 2015.

Oh yeah, things are just peachy. But hey, no waiting for tee times!
[/quote]

Yup. Things are looking fine around here. Just peachy, if not a bit overcrowded. My home course has tournaments out the yin yang all the time....

[The7thLetter]

[quote name='RiskyBusiness' timestamp='1444409954' post='12433502']
[quote name='sappytop' timestamp='1444408799' post='12433406']
my gf at the time was watching golf on TV with me and she said...how do they make the ball turn like that when they putt?

i explained the balls turn because the greens have undulations and putting is really challenging cuz you have to figure out the correct speed and how much slope/break each putt has.

she said...wow, golf is hard.
[/quote]
Pics...
[/quote]

Repped.

[RiskyBusiness]

[quote name='The7thLetter' timestamp='1444412955' post='12433682']
[quote name='RiskyBusiness' timestamp='1444409954' post='12433502']
[quote name='sappytop' timestamp='1444408799' post='12433406']
my gf at the time was watching golf on TV with me and she said...how do they make the ball turn like that when they putt?

i explained the balls turn because the greens have undulations and putting is really challenging cuz you have to figure out the correct speed and how much slope/break each putt has.

she said...wow, golf is hard.
[/quote]
Pics...
[/quote]

Repped.
[/quote]
Given he also included "at the time," this should all be rather straight forward. Agreed?

[The7thLetter]

[quote name='RiskyBusiness' timestamp='1444413216' post='12433702']
[quote name='The7thLetter' timestamp='1444412955' post='12433682']
[quote name='RiskyBusiness' timestamp='1444409954' post='12433502']
[quote name='sappytop' timestamp='1444408799' post='12433406']
my gf at the time was watching golf on TV with me and she said...how do they make the ball turn like that when they putt?

i explained the balls turn because the greens have undulations and putting is really challenging cuz you have to figure out the correct speed and how much slope/break each putt has.

she said...wow, golf is hard.
[/quote]
Pics...
[/quote]

Repped.
[/quote]
Given he also included "at the time," this should all be rather straight forward. Agreed?
[/quote]

Agreed! Seems quite simple.

[RiskyBusiness]

Disappointing results!

[mosesgolf]

While the overall golf population is dwindling-perhaps it was the perpetual hackers as the level of talent coming up from the youthful ranks is stronger than ever. It is perplexing that even with the economy stronger than it's been for quite some time the courses I play at aren't getting busier and certainly nowhere near the level of play in y2k.

[ydanusas]

I have to keep reminding myself that the article's objective is summarize National Golf Foundation's data and findings. To make concrete assumptions as to why less people are taking up the game or more people are foregoing the game altogether, we need to see how the data is structured. I would like to see breakdown on age (are less kids taking up the game or are more elders stopping to play), by state (do booming states have a less impact), by social/culture (maybe kids opt to play different sports) economic.

Only then can we make a solid cause and effect conclusion. Is anyone here a member of NGF? Not so much to download the findings and share with us since that would violate your membership but more so to paraphrase and share the study's findings with us.

Because at the end of the day, all we have is an article from nytimes.

[Ted Williams]

I'm just not seeing any folks under 30 anymore. And this goes for juniors as well, that whole age segment has vanished

I remember in my youth how our parents would drop us off at the course and we would play all day long. Easily had to be 30 plus juniors on the course every summer day

Not Happening anymore. The senior leagues are all alive and kicking (for now ) -and take up about 70% of golf course play IMHO

[Soloman1]

We didn't have the Internet, smartphones, Twitter and Facebook back then. We had time.

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1444588549' post='12442280']
We didn't have the Internet, smartphones, Twitter and Facebook back then. We had time.
[/quote]true

Funny thing I was just talking about this with my senior group the other day. I still remember the area junior Wendy's golf tour (Wendy's was new back than).We played 6 different courses each summer, had a blast and each was given a coupon for a frosty after the round. Must have been 130 juniors in this local tour we had. So I was curious and asked a old fart that is old as me that was a local club pro back than.This event ended in 1985 ish and they never had another great junior tour resurface.

Sad how we really had it better back than without all of these gizmos (as I type on my keyboard )

[rangersgoalie]

Junior golf became a means to an end for families some years ago.
"there are ___ scholarships per year that aren't used"
"Golf can pay for your child's education"
"golf is a great business tool"
and so on.

All statements have truth to them, for a limited few. But parents push golfers just like the nightmares in other sports.
Much like we don't see sand lot baseball games, and kids make "play dates", our kids are being super structured in all their
recreation instead of things just being fun. Wonder why so many juniors quit?

[tannyhoban]

[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1444592720' post='12442472']
Junior golf became a means to an end for families some years ago.
"there are ___ scholarships per year that aren't used"
"Golf can pay for your child's education"
"golf is a great business tool"
and so on.

All statements have truth to them, for a limited few. But parents push golfers just like the nightmares in other sports.
Much like we don't see sand lot baseball games, and kids make "play dates", our kids are being super structured in all their
recreation instead of things just being fun. Wonder why so many juniors quit?
[/quote]

And local hot stove isn't good enough, has to be travel ball, same with softball, volleyball, soccer, b' ball you name it. H.S. coaches are requiring this participation in many areas. Only so much time a kid can dedicate. And what generation started this crap, anyways? A boomerang on the boomers, ha. we've succeeded in capitalizing on every pursuit and now it's shrinking in golf. ....waaaaah.

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1444592720' post='12442472']
Junior golf became a means to an end for families some years ago.
"there are ___ scholarships per year that aren't used"
"Golf can pay for your child's education"
"golf is a great business tool"
and so on.

All statements have truth to them, for a limited few. But parents push golfers just like the nightmares in other sports.
Much like we don't see sand lot baseball games, and kids make "play dates", our kids are being super structured in all their
recreation instead of things just being fun. Wonder why so many juniors quit?
[/quote]these instructional online forums are to Blame as well.They want everyone to have a perfect swing and golf game.When I grew up this didn't matter at all.Infact I never saw my swing for 25 years

[metsmc]

Women are to blame. An older gentleman I played with a said something that really made sense to me. He said when he was growing up the man worked and come the weekend dad would be at the country club. Nowadays from my own experience being married with 2 kids if i tried to spend all weekend every weekend golfing i'd be looking for a new place to live.

[RiskyBusiness]

[quote name='metsmc' timestamp='1444603021' post='12442986']
Women are to blame. An older gentleman I played with a said something that really made sense to me. He said when he was growing up the man worked and come the weekend dad would be at the country club. Nowadays from my own experience being married with 2 kids if i tried to spend all weekend every weekend golfing i'd be looking for a new place to live.
[/quote]
She's a lucky Woman.

[ohioglfr]

I don't see this in the Dayton, Ohio area. The public courses have been busy all summer, and the private clubs seem to be doing all right.

[king_biscuit]

[quote name='metsmc' timestamp='1444603021' post='12442986']
Women are to blame. An older gentleman I played with a said something that really made sense to me. He said when he was growing up the man worked and come the weekend dad would be at the country club. Nowadays from my own experience being married with 2 kids if i tried to spend all weekend every weekend golfing i'd be looking for a new place to live.
[/quote]

That's why the divorce rate is 50+percent. In my house I play as much golf as I want and my wife of 17 years does her thing -- we are not joined at the hip and we are both happy. My whole life is set up around playing golf, and the only social interactions I care about are ones related to golf. No woman would be worth what is described in the above post.

[Llortamaisey]

You guys bring up a lot of great points with the changes in household dynamics and distractions of technology.

One more issue that I'd like to mention is what I call the wussification of America. This is the idea that every kid is a winner and should get a trophy just for participation. Parents don't want their kids to fail anymore. Golf is a complete antithesis of this ideology. Every player is going to fail most of the time with golf. I go to my nieces and nephews soccer games and tee ball games and they don't even keep score. Golf is hard. You don't have teammates that can mask other players inabilities. And the game is centered around keeping score so you know who is the winner and who is the loser.

The fear of losing has completely over taken desire of winning.

[ilikegolf26]

[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1444571773' post='12441480']
While the overall golf population is dwindling-perhaps it was the perpetual hackers as the level of talent coming up from the youthful ranks is stronger than ever. It is perplexing that even with the economy stronger than it's been for quite some time the courses I play at aren't getting busier and certainly nowhere near the level of play in y2k.
[/quote]

The economy is getting "stronger?" Really? It is? Where at?

[ilikegolf26]

[quote name='dmblanch' timestamp='1419498692' post='10640147']
I loved the post about the single being asked if he had a tee time on a wide open course. I play 3-4 times a week and I haven't made a tee time in 4 years. Sometimes when I walk on they ask me if I have a tee time and I turn and point to the desolate vista on 1 and 10 as the crickets chirp and answer, "Why bother?". Twice in 2014 I played on days the course was open and I was the ONLY golfer to show up all day.

The question of golf's ultimate survival is not the question you should be asking. You should be asking, "Will golf survive AROUND WHERE I LIVE?"

Golf has only been around my corner of civilization for 100 years, not 500 hundred. For the first 400 years it was a game played by a few Scottish shepherds, no one else. What were there -- 35 total contestants in the Open when Old Tom Morris played? Is that the kind of golf we want to return to? I hope not.

In my area 2014 was worse than 2013 and 2015 is shaping up to be worse still. One course closed when a developer went to the city with a simple plan. He said he'd carve off 50 acres and build the city a good park with ball diamonds and soccer fields, buying the rest for himself with zoning for luxury homesites. City said, "Hella good deal!", then held a hearing, no objections, gavel banged, done deal. This is the shape of things to come.

Two other local muni's just forced their head pro's to retire, promoting their assistants. They will NOT be replacing the assistants.

The county has 3 courses slated for closure and one of the three on the chopping block is probably unsaveable. It's a good links at the airport, I played there on a Thursday afternoon in August and the clubhouse was locked up. Only one staffer on duty, so when he has an errand he just leaves. Happens quite a bit, said the girl in the restaurant. I played for free. Half the water hazards were drained into caked mudflats. It's a goner.

The state tried to find a buyer/management company for the 6 fine courses it owns. No takers, so they're stuck.

Many Golfnow specials can be had at fine courses for good tee times, with cart, for under $1 per hole.

Bottom line, I predict 4 closures statewide and no new openings in 2015.

Oh yeah, things are just peachy. But hey, no waiting for tee times!
[/quote]

Or maybe it's just because throwing down 50 half million dollar houses is a better return than the slow, plodding pace of upkeeping a muni?