The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[somaplr]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1400669154' post='9337835']
As much as you don't want to believe it, friends of mine that have taken that stuff take one look at the way his body was and said there's no way he didn't a few years ago. I don't know what to believe but these guys were non golfers and could care less and were just commenting on it. Who cares if he did or didn't really...isn't Nyquil a PED if it lets me work through a cold the next day? The PED argument with sports is so dumb...these guys have so many ways to do it without getting caught. Has anyone heard of this patch people wear for a day? It's like untraceable unless you are actually caught with it on so they wear it during the game
[/quote]

As an amateur (natural) bodybuilder...if your friends that are "on the wagon" think Tiger took roids/PEDs...they take some really, really bad stuff.

There could be some type of blood transfusion RBC/decadurabolin thing going on - but I highly highly doubt it.

There is almost a zero possiblity Tiger took "juice" as people call it. If you think someone can't put on a couple dozen pounds of muscle mass over a period of years, you have no clue what the combination of a diet (produced to gain muscle mass) and training is capabale of doing.

[jptruck]

I play a lot of golf with Doctors that would dispute the "zero" possibility of juicing in Tiger's case. He exhibits a lot of the signs of someone on the juice, that's why there's controversy.

[somaplr]

[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1400773513' post='9347085']
I play a lot of golf with Doctors that would dispute the "zero" possibility of juicing in Tiger's case. He exhibits a lot of the signs of someone on the juice, that's why there's controversy.
[/quote]

Unless they are a hormone specialist or Low T specialist doctor (most enodos are specific to glands), you'll find more bodybuilders at your gym know an infinite amount more about test and how it's applicable to muscle development before any "doctor" would. Some GP's can spout of about protein synthesis and what it does, but in an applicable sense they have no idea. Heck, many GP's are clueless when it becomes to diet as well. Went to an Urgent Care to get my health screening done for insurance purposes and the Doc told me I needed to get my BMI down because I'm "clinically overweight" and my cholesterol was "above normal". That's about as good of a measure of health as measuring someone's height. (I know there are very knowledgable doctors out there, don't get me wrong - but most doctors don't know the difference between deca and nandorlone).

[WCrane]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1400772557' post='9346979']
[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1400669154' post='9337835']
As much as you don't want to believe it, friends of mine that have taken that stuff take one look at the way his body was and said there's no way he didn't a few years ago. I don't know what to believe but these guys were non golfers and could care less and were just commenting on it. Who cares if he did or didn't really...isn't Nyquil a PED if it lets me work through a cold the next day? The PED argument with sports is so dumb...these guys have so many ways to do it without getting caught. Has anyone heard of this patch people wear for a day? It's like untraceable unless you are actually caught with it on so they wear it during the game
[/quote]

As an amateur (natural) bodybuilder...if your friends that are "on the wagon" think Tiger took roids/PEDs...they take some really, really bad stuff.

There could be some type of blood transfusion RBC/decadurabolin thing going on - but I highly highly doubt it.

There is almost a zero possiblity Tiger took "juice" as people call it. If you think someone can't put on a couple dozen pounds of muscle mass over a period of years, you have no clue what the combination of a diet (produced to gain muscle mass) and training is capabale of doing.
[/quote]

Exactly, im pretty sure that anyone whos been in a weightroom or researched weightlifting at more than a surface level wouldn't look at tigers 6 year progress twice. Tons of kids go through these transformations every year, by eating anything they can get their hands on and following a consistent weight lifting regiment. Go to any college campus gym and you'll see swathes of kids who were twigs during their freshman year, now squatting 350lbs+ and benching their bodyweight for 12 reps as they finish up their undergrad. Its not like the old days where its nothing but curls and and lunges, highly structured body builder style regiments are the norm now, as well as 1000kcal peanut butter protien shakes twice a day. If these kids can do it living on college budgets in crowded sweaty gyms following routines they read on the internet, you bet your a** tiger could with his personal world class gym with trainers and a personal chef.

I'm not even a big tiger fan, but seeing as the only reason most of you seem to suspect tiger of "being on the juice" is he got bigger, and some unnamed docters says he has " the signs"(ps, weightlifting and eating more naturally raises testosterone), I think its laughable to assume he used peds to enhance his strength.

[somaplr]

[quote name='WCrane' timestamp='1400780154' post='9347927']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1400772557' post='9346979']
[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1400669154' post='9337835']
As much as you don't want to believe it, friends of mine that have taken that stuff take one look at the way his body was and said there's no way he didn't a few years ago. I don't know what to believe but these guys were non golfers and could care less and were just commenting on it. Who cares if he did or didn't really...isn't Nyquil a PED if it lets me work through a cold the next day? The PED argument with sports is so dumb...these guys have so many ways to do it without getting caught. Has anyone heard of this patch people wear for a day? It's like untraceable unless you are actually caught with it on so they wear it during the game
[/quote]

As an amateur (natural) bodybuilder...if your friends that are "on the wagon" think Tiger took roids/PEDs...they take some really, really bad stuff.

There could be some type of blood transfusion RBC/decadurabolin thing going on - but I highly highly doubt it.

There is almost a zero possiblity Tiger took "juice" as people call it. If you think someone can't put on a couple dozen pounds of muscle mass over a period of years, you have no clue what the combination of a diet (produced to gain muscle mass) and training is capabale of doing.
[/quote]

Exactly, im pretty sure that anyone whos been in a weightroom or researched weightlifting at more than a surface level wouldn't look at tigers 6 year progress twice. Tons of kids go through these transformations every year, by eating anything they can get their hands on and following a consistent weight lifting regiment. Go to any college campus gym and you'll see swathes of kids who were twigs during their freshman year, now squatting 350lbs+ and benching their bodyweight for 12 reps as they finish up their undergrad. Its not like the old days where its nothing but curls and and lunges, highly structured body builder style regiments are the norm now, as well as 1000kcal peanut butter protien shakes twice a day. If these kids can do it living on college budgets in crowded sweaty gyms following routines they read on the internet, you bet your a** tiger could with his personal world class gym with trainers and a personal chef.

I'm not even a big tiger fan, but seeing as the only reason most of you seem to suspect tiger of "being on the juice" is he got bigger, and some unnamed docters says he has " the signs"(ps, weightlifting and eating more naturally raises testosterone), I think its laughable to assume he used peds to enhance his strength.
[/quote]

Yeah there is a Weightlifting thread in the Instruction forum - we all laugh about it.

[bellview17]

He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his
body could not hold that weight....

[bscinstnct]

He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his

body could not hold that weight....

 

Here is Tiger in December 2002. If he is 245 then Phil and Freddie are like 490 ; )

 

[sefus12]

[quote name='bellview17' timestamp='1400784257' post='9348401']
He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his
body could not hold that weight....
[/quote]

And this is now the most absurd thing said on this thread. Congrats my man/woman.... that takes a lot of "work" to do.

[Scotty1140]

Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.

[martinbns]

Well I'm glad the issue is totally cleared up because this thread was started.

I personally have gone from being a fan to not over the past 6-7 years, it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

I can't think of a high performance athlete in the past decade that rumours followed over a long period that something hasn't proven them right.

At least none of us have to worry about it anymore though since this thread was started and the whole issue is resolved for the world now.

[cheetah440]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1400772557' post='9346979']
[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1400669154' post='9337835']
As much as you don't want to believe it, friends of mine that have taken that stuff take one look at the way his body was and said there's no way he didn't a few years ago. I don't know what to believe but these guys were non golfers and could care less and were just commenting on it. Who cares if he did or didn't really...isn't Nyquil a PED if it lets me work through a cold the next day? The PED argument with sports is so dumb...these guys have so many ways to do it without getting caught. Has anyone heard of this patch people wear for a day? It's like untraceable unless you are actually caught with it on so they wear it during the game
[/quote]

As an amateur (natural) bodybuilder...if your friends that are "on the wagon" think Tiger took roids/PEDs...they take some really, really bad stuff.

There could be some type of blood transfusion RBC/decadurabolin thing going on - but I highly highly doubt it.

There is almost a zero possiblity Tiger took "juice" as people call it. If you think someone can't put on a couple dozen pounds of muscle mass over a period of years, you have no clue what the combination of a diet (produced to gain muscle mass) and training is capabale of doing.
[/quote]

This. Most who comment about "Tiger looks Juiced" never spent a day in a gym and don't understand the basics at all. ANYONE who lifts weights with a routine can gain significant muscle mass over the time frame that Tiger did. The last thing Tiger needed was juicing.Just a stupid assertion.

[cheetah440]

[quote name='bellview17' timestamp='1400784257' post='9348401']
He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his
body could not hold that weight....
[/quote]

LOL, 245. Someone's smoking some serious crack. LOL

[kellygreen]

[quote name='pmo09' timestamp='1400647405' post='9337287']
Hopefully the name of this thread isn't breaking any rules, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Every time there is any type of article regarding Woods, there are always a ton of comments saying he uses steroids/PEDs, or other illegal substances and that is why he has accomplished what he has. Look, nobody knows the real truth except for Tiger, but the key point I want to make is that there is [b]literally no evidence, or hint of evidence to suggest that he has not been clean his entire career.[/b]

Take a minute to take that all in.

Those who argue for PED use tend to make 2 general arguments:[list]
[*]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005
[*]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED abuse
[/list]
Lets break these down into why they are ridiculous arguments

[u][b]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005[/b][/u]
This is the most common argument, and my favourite to dissect because it shows how little people actually know about fitness, and how desperately they feel the need to discredit others accomplishments to make themselves feel better.

First of all, yes, unquestionably Tiger got bigger from his first masters victory in 1997, to about 2005. What people need to understand, is that Tiger went from around 140lbs, to about 180-190lbs in 2005. At 6'1, 140lbs is grossly underweight, and 180-190 is normal. This is not taking into account for an athletic build.

Obviously, Tiger likes to workout, a fact that has been well documented over the years. To gain 40 pounds in 8 years is by no means suspicious, especially with a dedicated weight regime. He did not suddenly become big, it was very gradual. Also, Tiger is not at big as the media and TV people say he is. All this "football linebacker" and bodybuilder talk is incredibly exaggerated. 6'1 185lbs is nothing more than athletic. If you saw that walking down the street (and I bet you do every single day), you wouldn't look twice.

Adding fuel to the fire is that there is probably no other player on tour that looks like Tiger. Nobody else has lifted for power and explosiveness in the way in which he has. The media tries to play up guys like Dustin Johnson and Gary Woodland as guys who are real muscular players, but in reality are beanpole thin. Then, there was the Camilo Villegagas 'bodybuilder' like talk for a period of 2008-2010. I would be surprised if camilo weighed more than 140lbs soaking wet

Secondly, part of human psychology is that people always like to try and discredit the accomplishments of others by blaming it on external factors to make themselves feel better. People see what they want to see, and if that means blaming all the majors on PED use rather than hard work and effort, than so be it. My questions is this - was Tiger on PED's when he was 2 and on national TV for his golf ability? What about when he was 5 and beating 10 year olds in local events? How about when he was winning state championships and US amateurs?

[u][b]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED Abuse[/b][/u]
In short - No, it doesn't.

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim a 38 year old, aging athletes injuries are from PED use rather than from wear and tear on his body. Aside from golfing every day for probably almost his entire life, he was known to run 6 miles a day in his 20's, as well as to participate in Navy SEAL training missions (and in Haney's book, he mentions that Tiger's knee issues were caused from a Navy seal kicking him in the knee while off balance). Correlation does not mean causation.

He's getting old for his sport. He probably has 10 years ahead of him to be competitive, but like any athlete, he's done a lot to his body. To simply blame it on PED's is not only unfounded, but an insult to any other athlete who has seen performance suffer due to injury in his later years.


So lets say, for arguments sake, that Tiger did take some sort of PED in his career - what would the benefits be? Specifically speaking about steroids, they promote increased muscle development. Would this make Tiger hit the ball further? Maybe, but guys like Bubba, Mcilroy, and John Daly have shown us all sorts of body types get the job done in regards to distance. Surely they wouldn't help Tiger with his short game, putting, or focus. So what real benefit would that leave? A potential for an increase in distance? That's a really weak argument.
[/quote]



Well thought out, and well written.

The only problem is this.

Those who are willing to accept Tiger and his accomplishments at their face value...your dissertation was unnecessary. There is not an ounce of credible evidence that he has. There isn't even the background back-biting and rumors that swirled around those athletes whom it eventually came to light that they used PEDs. In short...there isn't even any smoke...never mind any fire.

To those who resent Tiger...and will latch on to ANYTHING they can to denigrate him and those accomplishments. There is NOTHING you can say that will convince them of the truth. Because they simply aren't interested in it. They simply want their pound of flesh. If the buzz around the rules infractions last year didn't make that point clear...I'm not sure what will.

All good will be attacked. Especially if people don't like the package that good comes in. Doesn't make any sense, but htat's just human nature, sadly.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='bellview17' timestamp='1400784257' post='9348401']
He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his
body could not hold that weight....
[/quote]

Dude, what have you been smoking?

I saw Woods play---in person---at the peak of his powers in 2001 and 2002. Stood on the tee no less than 10 feet away from him. He is about 6' 1.5" tall and (at that time) weighed about 190lbs MAX. Someone 245lbs is NFL LINEBACKER material..and Tiger would have been considered short and small even for a cornerback or a reciever.

[avrag]

PEDs are not only steroids and HGH. Why does every thread about this topic always cocentrate on these two groups of substances?

[ExProGoingBack]

[quote name='bellview17' timestamp='1400784257' post='9348401']He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his
body could not hold that weight....[/quote]

Thanks for making my soda come thru my nose..

[nochct1]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1400669154' post='9337835']
As much as you don't want to believe it, friends of mine that have taken that stuff take one look at the way his body was and said there's no way he didn't a few years ago. I don't know what to believe but these guys were non golfers and could care less and were just commenting on it. Who cares if he did or didn't really...isn't Nyquil a PED if it lets me work through a cold the next day? The PED argument with sports is so dumb...these guys have so many ways to do it without getting caught. Has anyone heard of this patch people wear for a day? It's like untraceable unless you are actually caught with it on so they wear it during the game
[/quote]

So these guys who are non golfers looked a picture of Tiger Woods and assumed he took PEDs. If they are non golfers, then what did they compare him to? As non golfers, they wouldn't look at a picture and immediately have a point of reference from an earlier time period, so how would they come to that conclusion?

Would these same non golfers look at picture of Adam Scott and assume the same thing? Or Gary Woodland? Dustin Johnson?

I'm just having trouble believing that your friends who don't play golf could look at a picture of Tiger Woods and immediately remember what he looked like back in 1997.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1400793779' post='9349481']
PEDs are not only steroids and HGH. Why does every thread about this topic always cocentrate on these two groups of substances?
[/quote]

Good call. I always thought that based on some of his choices, the PED he used was Viagra or Cialis.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.

[ExProGoingBack]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400800030' post='9350109'][quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.[/quote]

Anyone? I guess I have hope then....

[cheetah440]

[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1400800542' post='9350147']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400800030' post='9350109'][quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.[/quote]
Anyone? I guess I have hope then....
[/quote]
Yes, anyone. Provided you actually lifted heavy and ate, yes. You can't just take it and sit on the couch. Contrary to popular myth, you actually have to still work out......

[ExProGoingBack]

[quote name='cheetah440' timestamp='1400801521' post='9350255'][quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1400800542' post='9350147']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400800030' post='9350109'][quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.[/quote]
Anyone? I guess I have hope then....
[/quote]
Yes, anyone. Provided you actually lifted heavy and ate, yes. You can't just take it and sit on the couch. Contrary to popular myth, you actually have to still work out......[/quote]

When you said breakfast of champions did you mean roids? Wasnt sure... If thats what you meant... I agree

[jimbonecrusher]

You're right, there is no evidence.

Signed,

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.

[Yrrdead]

[quote name='cheetah440' timestamp='1400801521' post='9350255']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1400800542' post='9350147']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400800030' post='9350109'][quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.[/quote]
Anyone? I guess I have hope then....
[/quote]
Yes, anyone. Provided you actually lifted heavy and ate, yes. You can't just take it and sit on the couch. Contrary to popular myth, you actually have to still work out......
[/quote]

Actually you can just take it and sit on the couch.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#t=articleTop

[TraderDevil]

[quote name='jimbonecrusher' timestamp='1400804217' post='9350497']
You're right, there is no evidence.

Signed,

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
[/quote]

What are you implying here? There is a lot of evidence against Bonds and Clemens.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='TraderDevil' timestamp='1400805783' post='9350641']
[quote name='jimbonecrusher' timestamp='1400804217' post='9350497']
You're right, there is no evidence.

Signed,

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.
[/quote]

What are you implying here? There is a lot of evidence against Bonds and Clemens.
[/quote]

I think he is actually speaking in favor of TW.

And highlighting the contrast in the abundance of evidence of PED use by Bonds and Clemens

To the complete lack of any evidence of PED use by TW

Clever.

[golfdad907]

Why? If you think or feel he did, then so be it. Wouldn't surprise me, notice he's not Free Safety size anymore.

[bunter101]

He is not 185, at his peak in 2001-2002 he as at least 245. Even if he did not take anything, his

body could not hold that weight....

 

Here is Tiger in December 2002. If he is 245 then Phil and Freddie are like 490 ; )

 

 

I'm a little teapot short and stout. here's my handle here's my spout.

 

Yeh ok Tiger, you need to stop taking them PEDs

[Scotty1140]

[quote name='cheetah440' timestamp='1400801521' post='9350255']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1400800542' post='9350147']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400800030' post='9350109'][quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.[/quote]
Anyone? I guess I have hope then....
[/quote]
Yes, anyone. Provided you actually lifted heavy and ate, yes. You can't just take it and sit on the couch. Contrary to popular myth, you actually have to still work out......
[/quote]
But even then 'heavy' is a relative term. Just because you lift heavy doesn't mean you'll get big. Lifting for muscle gain and lifting for strength don't always mean the same thing. Strength and size don't always run parallel with each other.

I had a guy set a PR (personal record) with his conventional dead lift on Tuesday. He pulled 415 x 1......he weighed in at 171lbs that day! I'm 6'2" 195, 9.5% BF. Visually, I look much stronger than him. I haven't pulled more than 330 in probably 5 years. If I tried 415 today, I'd be next to Tiger on the operating table tomorrow haha.

Both sides of the coin here are making crazy leaps based on someone's athletic appearance. Both Lance Armstrong and Marc McGwire admitted to taking PED's (well Big Mac kind of 'admitted' haha). Talk about two different body types there. 'Steroids' can be a lot of things.

Tiger could be 20 lean lbs heavier and could be totally clean. He could also look exactly like he did when he was 20 and be dirty.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400807602' post='9350839']
[quote name='cheetah440' timestamp='1400801521' post='9350255']
[quote name='ExProGoingBack' timestamp='1400800542' post='9350147']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400800030' post='9350109'][quote name='Scotty1140' timestamp='1400787879' post='9348813']
Wait did I just read correctly Tiger is 245 lbs? Haha. Wow lots of ignorance about exercise, muscle gain and what a steroid is in this thread from BOTH sides of the coin.
[/quote]

If he had taken juice, the way he trained, he *would* have been 230+

All I see is a "hard gainer" who lifted his *ss off and only gained 20-30lbs over a long period of time, *years*, as he hit his early-mid 20s. Maybe hit 200lbs.

Anybody on the breakfast of champions who lifts and eats big can gain 25lbs

In 3 months.

I've seen it, when you see it, you know it.[/quote]
Anyone? I guess I have hope then....
[/quote]
Yes, anyone. Provided you actually lifted heavy and ate, yes. You can't just take it and sit on the couch. Contrary to popular myth, you actually have to still work out......
[/quote]
But even then 'heavy' is a relative term. Just because you lift heavy doesn't mean you'll get big. Lifting for muscle gain and lifting for strength don't always mean the same thing. Strength and size don't always run parallel with each other.

I had a guy set a PR (personal record) with his conventional dead lift on Tuesday. He pulled 415 x 1......he weighed in at 171lbs that day! I'm 6'2" 195, 9.5% BF. Visually, I look much stronger than him. I haven't pulled more than 330 in probably 5 years. If I tried 415 today, I'd be next to Tiger on the operating table tomorrow haha.

Both sides of the coin here are making crazy leaps based on someone's athletic appearance. Both Lance Armstrong and Marc McGwire admitted to taking PED's (well Big Mac kind of 'admitted' haha). Talk about two different body types there. 'Steroids' can be a lot of things.

Tiger could be 20 lean lbs heavier and could be totally clean. He could also look exactly like he did when he was 20 and be dirty.
[/quote]

You gain a lot of weight when you lift and eat and take steroids.

A lot of weight.

You know that.