The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[DRRicks]

[quote name='pmo09' timestamp='1400647405' post='9337287']
Hopefully the name of this thread isn't breaking any rules, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Every time there is any type of article regarding Woods, there are always a ton of comments saying he uses steroids/PEDs, or other illegal substances and that is why he has accomplished what he has. Look, nobody knows the real truth except for Tiger, but the key point I want to make is that there is [b]literally no evidence, or hint of evidence to suggest that he has not been clean his entire career.[/b]

Take a minute to take that all in.

Those who argue for PED use tend to make 2 general arguments:[list]
[*]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005
[*]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED abuse
[/list]
Lets break these down into why they are ridiculous arguments

[u][b]He got bigger from the period of 1997-2005[/b][/u]
This is the most common argument, and my favourite to dissect because it shows how little people actually know about fitness, and how desperately they feel the need to discredit others accomplishments to make themselves feel better.

First of all, yes, unquestionably Tiger got bigger from his first masters victory in 1997, to about 2005. What people need to understand, is that Tiger went from around 140lbs, to about 180-190lbs in 2005. At 6'1, 140lbs is grossly underweight, and 180-190 is normal. This is not taking into account for an athletic build.

Obviously, Tiger likes to workout, a fact that has been well documented over the years. To gain 40 pounds in 8 years is by no means suspicious, especially with a dedicated weight regime. He did not suddenly become big, it was very gradual. Also, Tiger is not at big as the media and TV people say he is. All this "football linebacker" and bodybuilder talk is incredibly exaggerated. 6'1 185lbs is nothing more than athletic. If you saw that walking down the street (and I bet you do every single day), you wouldn't look twice.

Adding fuel to the fire is that there is probably no other player on tour that looks like Tiger. Nobody else has lifted for power and explosiveness in the way in which he has. The media tries to play up guys like Dustin Johnson and Gary Woodland as guys who are real muscular players, but in reality are beanpole thin. Then, there was the Camilo Villegagas 'bodybuilder' like talk for a period of 2008-2010. I would be surprised if camilo weighed more than 140lbs soaking wet

Secondly, part of human psychology is that people always like to try and discredit the accomplishments of others by blaming it on external factors to make themselves feel better. People see what they want to see, and if that means blaming all the majors on PED use rather than hard work and effort, than so be it. My questions is this - was Tiger on PED's when he was 2 and on national TV for his golf ability? What about when he was 5 and beating 10 year olds in local events? How about when he was winning state championships and US amateurs?

[u][b]His injuries for the later half of his 30s supposedly show signs of PED Abuse[/b][/u]
In short - No, it doesn't.

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim a 38 year old, aging athletes injuries are from PED use rather than from wear and tear on his body. Aside from golfing every day for probably almost his entire life, he was known to run 6 miles a day in his 20's, as well as to participate in Navy SEAL training missions (and in Haney's book, he mentions that Tiger's knee issues were caused from a Navy seal kicking him in the knee while off balance). Correlation does not mean causation.

He's getting old for his sport. He probably has 10 years ahead of him to be competitive, but like any athlete, he's done a lot to his body. To simply blame it on PED's is not only unfounded, but an insult to any other athlete who has seen performance suffer due to injury in his later years.


So lets say, for arguments sake, that Tiger did take some sort of PED in his career - what would the benefits be? Specifically speaking about steroids, they promote increased muscle development. Would this make Tiger hit the ball further? Maybe, but guys like Bubba, Mcilroy, and John Daly have shown us all sorts of body types get the job done in regards to distance. Surely they wouldn't help Tiger with his short game, putting, or focus. So what real benefit would that leave? A potential for an increase in distance? That's a really weak argument.
[/quote]

I hope that he PMs you and thanks you for coming to his defense. That would be awesome.

[ultra45]

The difference between a "lance armstrong" and tiger... is the the drug policy was not in effect on the pga tour when that may or may not have taken place.. whether it's right or wrong is another topic... but the point is at the time he wasn't officially breaking any rules so whether he did or not will always remain with tiger unless some supplier eventually wants to cash in with a "tell all" video/interview/book...

When you have tiger's resources it's possible that he hired all the right people to do everything naturally (trainer, nutritionist, chef.. etc, etc...) and/or got some artificial help as well...

[golfs453]

[quote name='OldGolfer87' timestamp='1400678267' post='9338515']
Why would you bother starting another thread just to be antagonized by the Tiger haters here ?? even with NO absolute proof they still accuse , and will always do so

you are wasting your time and breathe trying to get them to see the light , I for the most part quit reading TW threads because they are just another invitation for those who

hate to pile more on versus being positive , but the people who moderate this place ask questions about being negative but continue to let TW get trashed for no truly good

reason , but that's okay
[/quote]

At the end of the day, some people will believe what they want regardless, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people believe Tiger and the doctor where up to something, but don't want to believe or ignore it when the people actually involved in case say that Tiger did not use PEDs.

[Forged4ever]

WoW, I read the title of the thread and thought, WTF, have I been under a rock?

Granted, I haven't played in a while, however thanks to the Guys here and another board, along with my diet of 5 monthly golf rags (3 are Euro and they blow the American mags away, IMO), I thought that I was up to date on the latest scuttle butt. So, I've got 8 mags at my bedside (5 current, 3 last month's issues) and I went back and there were 3 articles and one one page editorial type piece and in all of them, not a single word regarding PEDs. I'm talkin not even the acronym "PEDs."

So I believe that this is much ado about nothing, though being about Tiger, I have no doubt thst you got yourself a 12-14 page thread. Easy, and if you turn it up a notch regarding gettin confrontational, you'll blow by 20, no sweat

Oh, and I do agree with Joey regarding having others think for me. While I do for the most part, play well with others, I tend to draw the line on that forced thoughts shtick

And I believe that 25x10.5 has the best post!

Well done Bro!

Well, I do wish you a great season

So, I would fear not, as it's a non-issue


Fairways& Greens My Firends,
Richard

[puttingmatt]

It really matters little, but yet here we are again with another stupid
Tiger defense thread. Unless the OP is just out to stir another Tiger pot,
lets leave well enough alone. Rumors are just that, and we have heard them all.

Keep bringing up these kind of threads, and I am going to start believing the speculations !!!

[legitimategolf]

Aspersion casters gonna cast aspersions. What you gonna do. I think the PED accusations, while in bad taste, are really just expressions of simplistic antagonism towards Tiger Woods. This is all pro wrestling basically. You have your faces and your heels and people are free to pick whichever side they like better. Tiger's legacy in golf is pretty much cemented at this point, so the hissing and booing from the peanut gallery is harmless, all in good fun really.

[jubilee_links]

[quote name='geoffaw' timestamp='1400679976' post='9338739']
WRT to Galea, he was also one of the first to use PRP therapy for treatments, which would easily explain why Tiger went to him for his knee. So it is not necessarily for PEDs.
[/quote]

Thats like a cyclist saying that they only got 'training plans' from Ferrari.....

I know golf isnt cycling, or baseball, or athletics,or the NFL, or cross country skiing etc etc, but there arent many cases of a dodgy doc providing clean treatment for some and dirty for others..... generally the clients are 'all in'

If the LA investigation showed us anything it is that when there is money involved people will go to great lengths to gain an advantage. Especially if you have the sociopathic makeup of 'driven winner'.

[dlygrisse]

Tiger has a history of injury problems
Tiger has access to the best treatment available.
The doctors that give this treatment also treat many other world class atheletes
Some of these doctors have been caught trafficking PED's
Did he use them at one point in time to heal quicker? We don't know.
If he was using them is he still? We don't know.
What really is a PED? If he was using a "PED" who designated it a PED? Was it against PGA policy or federal law at the time? There are a lot of grey areas when it comes to this type of treatment.
Would I be surprised either way? No. In fact I would be surprised if multiple players weren't caught using at some point much like other sports.

[tbowles411]

People who don't want it to stop IMO simply want it to be true, and will use any platform to spread that belief.

There. I said it.

[DavePelz4]

And GolfWRX would like to welcome Barry Bonds to the board.

[tbowles411]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1400684369' post='9339273']
And GolfWRX would like to welcome Barry Bonds to the board.
[/quote]
LOL! DAVE!

[topr]

I'm going to end the speculation by starting a thread that allows everyone to speculate...good plan

[golfcarte]

[size=8][b]BARRY BONDS![/b] [/size]

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tbowles411' timestamp='1400684545' post='9339305']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1400684369' post='9339273']
And GolfWRX would like to welcome Barry Bonds to the board.
[/quote]
LOL! DAVE!
[/quote]

Gotta admit that was awesome.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='golfcarte' timestamp='1400684973' post='9339387']
[size=8][b]BARRY BONDS![/b] [/size]
[/quote]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Fishing4fun]

I guess Jack, Arnie, Sam, Ben, Byron and the rest of winners were juiced! Anything is possible ( note the sarcasm).

[stage1350]

Who is this Tiger Woods person everyone is talking about?

[dlygrisse]

Ironic that the Title of this thread states that it "has to end"

OP-you just got it ramped up on the most popular golf website on the planet.

[hankmoody]

It was never far from the press's mind. Remember in his first news conference back from the scandal, a reporter asked him about it out of the blue, in hopes that a chastised back from sex rehab Tiger would be in 100% honesty mode.

[Shankieboink]

Tiger juiced becuse he gained muscles, sigh.. A guy who trains in the gym every day and doesn't gain a lot of muscles in a couple of years aren't training correctly.

It says a lot about the game of golf as a sport. In what other sport would someone think you had to be juiced if you was 190lb?

[bscinstnct]

Has [i][b]anyone[/b][/i] ever come forward and said that they have knowledge of TW taking PEDs?

As was the case with Armstrong, Arod, Bonds etc. etc.?

[Tee2Green85]

Over the counter ped's and illegal ped's are two different animals. Highly doubtfull wood's has even thought about using any illegal substances. If I had to guess tiger has been using nothing but over the counter creatines and amino acids as a daily supplement for his workout regime. It's really funny how many people misinterpret ped's, they are not ALL ILLEGAL. No way would tiger woods put his career, name, family, or anything else important to him on the line for something that stupid, women on the other hand, that's another story, we have all been there.

and yes I personally use over the counter ped's when I work out and I am as healthy as I have ever been.

[djmohab2]

[quote name='Shankieboink' timestamp='1400694279' post='9340517']
Tiger juiced becuse he gained muscles, sigh.. A guy who trains in the gym every day and doesn't gain a lot of muscles in a couple of years aren't training correctly.

It says a lot about the game of golf as a sport. In what other sport would someone think you had to be juiced if you was 190lb?
[/quote]

Lance was only 160...

[gators78]

You'd think, at the very least, after Lance and ARod people would stop being so freaking naive about sports megastars and performance enhancers.

Guess not.

[Tim Meitner]

It's too damned easy to pick out the individuals who really don't know a damned thing about steroid usage. They're always the ones who think every single user attains to be, and ends up looking like a body builder. Hardly the case....especially for those needing to retain flexibility in their chosen field of endeavor.

One thing is absolutely certain regarding Tiger Woods and illegal PED use. No one here knows if he indulged any more than if he didn't. Only the ignorant would take an absolute, bet-your-life-on-it stance for either side of it.

[golfs453]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400694664' post='9340567']
Has [i][b]anyone[/b][/i] ever come forward and said that they have knowledge of TW taking PEDs?

As was the case with Armstrong, Arod, Bonds etc. etc.?
[/quote]

Not to my knowledge. People have said the opposite though....that he did not use PEDs:

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6760484/tiger-woods-use-peds-patient-says-lawyer-anthony-galea-assistant"]http://espn.go.com/g...galea-assistant[/url]

[sheldonjhacker]

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='golfs453' timestamp='1400699876' post='9341129']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400694664' post='9340567']
Has [i][b]anyone[/b][/i] ever come forward and said that they have knowledge of TW taking PEDs?

As was the case with Armstrong, Arod, Bonds etc. etc.?
[/quote]

Not to my knowledge. People have said the opposite though....that he did not use PEDs:

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6760484/tiger-woods-use-peds-patient-says-lawyer-anthony-galea-assistant"]http://espn.go.com/g...galea-assistant[/url]
[/quote]

And apologies if I have this wrong.

But didn't Galea talked to and made a deal with the Feds? If he did, and he knew TW took [b]one molecule[/b] of PEDs, you think he is

Lying to the Feds who are giving him a deal?

[AKftw]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400703020' post='9341481']
[quote name='golfs453' timestamp='1400699876' post='9341129']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400694664' post='9340567']
Has [i][b]anyone[/b][/i] ever come forward and said that they have knowledge of TW taking PEDs?

As was the case with Armstrong, Arod, Bonds etc. etc.?
[/quote]

Not to my knowledge. People have said the opposite though....that he did not use PEDs:

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6760484/tiger-woods-use-peds-patient-says-lawyer-anthony-galea-assistant"]http://espn.go.com/g...galea-assistant[/url]
[/quote]

And apologies if I have this wrong.

But didn't Galea talked to and made a deal with the Feds? If he did, and he knew TW took [b]one molecule[/b] of PEDs, you think he is

Lying to the Feds who are giving him a deal?
[/quote]

This. Tiger has a lot of money but if anyone believes he's shelling out enough to keep galea lying to the Feds no idea what to say to that. I'm laughing at the people posting in this thread that say they're 100% sure he took PEDs

[topr]

[quote name='AKftw' timestamp='1400704776' post='9341647']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400703020' post='9341481']
[quote name='golfs453' timestamp='1400699876' post='9341129']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400694664' post='9340567']
Has [i][b]anyone[/b][/i] ever come forward and said that they have knowledge of TW taking PEDs?

As was the case with Armstrong, Arod, Bonds etc. etc.?
[/quote]

Not to my knowledge. People have said the opposite though....that he did not use PEDs:

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6760484/tiger-woods-use-peds-patient-says-lawyer-anthony-galea-assistant"]http://espn.go.com/g...galea-assistant[/url]
[/quote]

And apologies if I have this wrong.

But didn't Galea talked to and made a deal with the Feds? If he did, and he knew TW took [b]one molecule[/b] of PEDs, you think he is

Lying to the Feds who are giving him a deal?
[/quote]

This. Tiger has a lot of money but if anyone believes he's shelling out enough to keep galea lying to the Feds no idea what to say to that. I'm laughing at the people posting in this thread that say they're 100% sure he took PEDs
[/quote]

Are you also laughing at the people that are 100% sure he didn't?