The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[kellygreen]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877871' post='9356109']
Let's change a couple of words in your sentence. "[s]Bonds[/s] [u]Tiger [/u]got caught up in the [s]BALCO[/s] [u][color=#333333]Anthony Galea [/color][/u]scandal because there was concrete evidence that the [s]facility[/s] [u]doctor [/u]he was involved with was supplying PEDs to several [s]baseball players[/s] [u]athletes[/u]." Nice work.

Bonds perjured himself to a grand jury? I think you are wrong on that one. Go look up his conviction.
[/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds#BALCO_scandal"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds#BALCO_scandal[/url]

Still flailing.

Bonds was only convicted on the obstruction charge, but he has been indicted on four counts of perjury

You can change all the words you want...there is NO equivalency here. Except the one you are trying to create out of thin air....by cherry-picking what suits your agenda, and ignoring the marked differences that debunk you innuendo.

[nochct1]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]

So Barry Bonds used "The Clear", and admitted to using it, but claimed he didn't know what it was.

Lance Armstrong was blood doping and have positive tests going back to 1999.

What has Tiger done? Over a 15 year career he has gained 25 pounds of muscle.

Still not sure why he's being accused of PED use and being compared to people who actually admitted to or tested positive for drugs.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400878254' post='9356143']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400878000' post='9356129']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]

Again, you're flailing.

No one accused Bonds, because no one caught him doing anything that looked suspicious...but people had long been scratching their heads over his SUDDEN change in physique in his late 30s and his SUDDEN increase in power at the plate. So when the BALCO scandal broke, and it became clear that Bonds might have had access to steroid creams and ointments---which are MUCH easier to keep concealed than the injection requiring blood doping that Armstrong was involved in---people started asking questions.

...and when people started asking questions, Bonds couldn't keep his lies straight...and he eventually "outed" himself.

There is no equivalency here because here was such change in Woods power. He was RIDICULOUSLY long even as an amatuer, and was hitting 9-irons into Augusta's par 5s even when he was built like a stick in 1997. What allowed Tiger to dominate in 2000-2002 was not an increase in power...but an increase in ACCURACY both from the tee and into the greens.

Now, would you like to tell me WHICH PED will give a golfer a more ACCURATE golf swing?? A more CONSISTENT golf swing?
[/quote]

I think it is you who are flailing. Changing your argument every time you post. Now talking about golf swings?

I guess you didn't find that perjury conviction, or Bonds's close associates who accused him of steroid use.

Let's go back to YOUR statement, modified to fit the circumstances. It is priceless: [color=#282828] "[/color][s]Bonds[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u]Tiger [/u][color=#282828]got caught up in the [/color][s]BALCO[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u][color=#333333]Anthony Galea [/color][/u][color=#282828]scandal because there was concrete evidence that the [/color][s]facility[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u]doctor [/u][color=#282828]he was involved with was supplying PEDs to several [/color][s]baseball players[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u]athletes[/u][color=#282828]." [/color]
[/quote]

Okay....not going to play this game.

[i]Put up or shut up. Show me your evidence that Tiger used PEDs...or a credible accusation that he used them?[/i]

[i]Internet trolls and conspriacy theorists who've never been in the same zip code as Woods don't count. [/i]

Now, stop wasting both my time and yours, because we BOTH know you've got NOTHING.

N.....O....T....H.....I....N....G.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]



What does TW have to do with Barry Bonds?

[kellygreen]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1400878365' post='9356157']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]

So Barry Bonds used "The Clear", and admitted to using it, but claimed he didn't know what it was.

Lance Armstrong was blood doping and have positive tests going back to 1999.

What has Tiger done? Over a 15 year career he has gained 25 pounds of muscle.

Still not sure why he's being accused of PED use and being compared to people who actually admitted to or tested positive for drugs.
[/quote]

Because people with an axe-to-grind can do it...besmirch his reputation...and not have to suffer any consequences for in an venue like this.

...and people had been wondering about the sudden change in Bonds, LONG before the BALCO scandal broke.

...and I had seen McGwire play as a rookie..and his body had changed so much that I LITERALLY didn't recognize him as the same person.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400878637' post='9356177']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]



What does TW have to do with Barry Bonds?
[/quote]

He's playing a "guilt by association" game.

He's trying to argue that because Bonds was associate with a doctore who was peddling PEDs, and was eventually discovered to be using them ....that Woods must be as well.

A notion buried in so many logical fallacies, I can't begin to catalogue them all.

[albiefresh]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400878272' post='9356147']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877871' post='9356109']
Let's change a couple of words in your sentence. "[s]Bonds[/s] [u]Tiger [/u]got caught up in the [s]BALCO[/s] [u][color=#333333]Anthony Galea [/color][/u]scandal because there was concrete evidence that the [s]facility[/s] [u]doctor [/u]he was involved with was supplying PEDs to several [s]baseball players[/s] [u]athletes[/u]." Nice work.

Bonds perjured himself to a grand jury? I think you are wrong on that one. Go look up his conviction.
[/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds#BALCO_scandal"]http://en.wikipedia....s#BALCO_scandal[/url]

Still flailing.

Bonds was only convicted on the obstruction charge, but he has been indicted on four counts of perjury

You can change all the words you want...there is NO equivalency here. Except the one you are trying to create out of thin air....by cherry-picking what suits your agenda, and ignoring the marked differences that debunk you innuendo.
[/quote]

In other words, I was right. No perjury conviction. Go ahead, you can admit it. I know it is very difficult for you. Seems that you are flailing - changing the argument yet again.

Your statement is EXACTLY equivalent. I didn't write it - you did. Maybe you should accuse yourself of creating it out of thin air - haha. Only the names are different. Let's look at it again:

"[s]Bonds[/s] [u]Tiger [/u]got caught up in the [s]BALCO[/s] [u][color=#333333]Anthony Galea [/color][/u]scandal because there was concrete evidence that the [s]facility[/s] [u]doctor [/u]he was involved with was supplying PEDs to several [s]baseball players[/s] [u]athletes[/u]."

Looks pretty equivalent to me. Keep shouting FALSE EQUIVALENCY though, it beats trying to analyze how the statement does not apply.

[albiefresh]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400878505' post='9356167']

Okay....not going to play this game.

[i]Put up or shut up. Show me your evidence that Tiger used PEDs...or a credible accusation that he used them?[/i]

[i]Internet trolls and conspriacy theorists who've never been in the same zip code as Woods don't count. [/i]

Now, stop wasting both my time and yours, because we BOTH know you've got NOTHING.

N.....O....T....H.....I....N....G.
[/quote]

"[s]Bonds[/s] [u]Tiger [/u]got caught up in the [s]BALCO[/s] [u][color=#333333]Anthony Galea [/color][/u]scandal because there was concrete evidence that the [s]facility[/s] [u]doctor [/u]he was involved with was supplying PEDs to several [s]baseball players[/s] [u]athletes[/u]."

Looks good.

[deasy55]

Nobody on here can say he definitely didn't take PEDs.

Likewise, nobody on here can say he definitely did take PEDs.



A bit of a Schrodinger's cat situation in some ways (although not really)

[albiefresh]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400878637' post='9356177']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]



What does TW have to do with Barry Bonds?
[/quote]

The same arguments being used to defend Tiger were being used for years to defend Bonds against steroid allegations. That's all. Just because Tiger's close associates have not accused him doesn't mean he didn't use steroids. Doesn't mean he did either.

Also, his association with Galea is like Bonds' association with BALCO. Doesn't mean Tiger took PEDs, but it doesn't look good. Just Like Lance's association with the Italian Dr. Ferrari.

[albiefresh]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1400879119' post='9356215']
Nobody on here can say he definitely didn't take PEDs.

Likewise, nobody on here can say he definitely did take PEDs.



A bit of a Schrodinger's cat situation in some ways (although not really)
[/quote]
Agreed.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1400879119' post='9356215']
Nobody on here can say he definitely didn't take PEDs.

Likewise, nobody on here can say he definitely did take PEDs.



A bit of a Schrodinger's cat situation in some ways (although not really)
[/quote]

This applies to pretty much everyone one tour

On golfwrx

And on the planet.

[MattTheTaff]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1400879119' post='9356215']
Nobody on here can say he definitely didn't take PEDs.

Likewise, nobody on here can say he definitely did take PEDs.



A bit of a Schrodinger's cat situation in some ways (although not really)
[/quote]

So if we lock matt every in a room with a bag of weed is he simultaneously .... Oh wait that's not gonna work

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400879153' post='9356221']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400878637' post='9356177']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]



What does TW have to do with Barry Bonds?
[/quote]

The same arguments being used to defend Tiger were being used for years to defend Bonds against steroid allegations. That's all. Just because Tiger's close associates have not accused him doesn't mean he didn't use steroids. Doesn't mean he did either.

Also, his association with Galea is like Bonds' association with BALCO. Doesn't mean Tiger took PEDs, but it doesn't look good. Just Like Lance's association with the Italian Dr. Ferrari.
[/quote]

Court evidence showed that

" Bonds' positive steroid test discovered among BALCO evidence"

http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=3112982&src=desktop

Galea cut a deal with the Feds and said TW

Did not take PEDs.

If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life.

Due respect but your arguments are bogus.

TW has nothing to do with Barry Bonds.

[Musky]

Have you guys seen Tiger? He's huge. He must be taking PEDs. Also he worked out too much and that ruined his back. I bet if he got off the juice, starting slamming cheeseburgers like they were Perkins's servers and grew a little paunch, he'd take down Jack's record within two years. Man.

[deasy55]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400880263' post='9356285']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1400879119' post='9356215']
Nobody on here can say he definitely didn't take PEDs.

Likewise, nobody on here can say he definitely did take PEDs.



A bit of a Schrodinger's cat situation in some ways (although not really)
[/quote]

This applies to pretty much everyone one tour

On golfwrx

And on the planet.
[/quote]

Yes. Except for the people we know [i]have [/i]taken PEDs.

[albiefresh]

"If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life."

Why would Anderson (BALCO trainer) go to jail rather than testify in Bonds's perjury case?

[Mr. Grumpy]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400881884' post='9356403']
"If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life."

Why would Anderson (BALCO trainer) go to jail rather than testify in Bonds's perjury case?
[/quote]

So, are you ready to testify against Tiger?

[albiefresh]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400878741' post='9356181']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400878637' post='9356177']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400877435' post='9356067']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1400877018' post='9356033']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400876671' post='9356003']
Same as Bonds.
[/quote]

No...not the same as Bonds.

Again, false equivalency.
[/quote]
Nope - nobody associated with Bonds accused him and people argued about it for years. Up until BALCO, everybody on the internet could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about Bonds as you are making about Tiger. Who in the position to know ever accused Bonds of taking steroids before BALCO? I'd be interested to know. Even when BALCO got caught, they continued to deny giving any steroids to Bonds, to the point of his trainer going to jail. It was why Bonds was not convicted of perjury.

Label it a false equivalency all you want. Doesn't make it so.
[/quote]



What does TW have to do with Barry Bonds?
[/quote]

He's playing a "guilt by association" game.

He's trying to argue that because Bonds was associate with a doctore who was peddling PEDs, and was eventually discovered to be using them ....that Woods must be as well.

A notion buried in so many logical fallacies, I can't begin to catalogue them all.
[/quote]
I didn't make that argument. I never posted in this thread until you claimed that because Galea denied giving Tiger PEds, TIger's associates haven't outed him, he did not take PEDs.

In fact, you are the one who has made the guilt by association argument, only against Bonds. Just a reminder:

[color=#282828]"[/color][s]Bonds[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u]Tiger [/u][color=#282828]got caught up in the [/color][s]BALCO[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u][color=#333333]Anthony Galea [/color][/u][color=#282828]scandal because there was concrete evidence that the [/color][s]facility[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u]doctor [/u][color=#282828]he was involved with was supplying PEDs to several [/color][s]baseball players[/s][color=#282828] [/color][u]athletes[/u][color=#282828]." [/color]

[albiefresh]

[quote name='Mr. Grumpy' timestamp='1400882191' post='9356427']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400881884' post='9356403']
"If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life."

Why would Anderson (BALCO trainer) go to jail rather than testify in Bonds's perjury case?
[/quote]

So, are you ready to testify against Tiger?
[/quote]
Don't know why I would. I am not his trainer or his doctor or his close associate. There may be plenty of reasons why those people would not want to out him if he did PEDs, just like the people associated with Bonds did not want to out him or testify against him. Of course, maybe Tiger hasn't taken PEDs. We will likely never know until/if at some future time we do know, just like Bonds, and plenty of other athletes who took PEDs and were later discovered, and plenty of others who took them and still have not been discovered.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400881884' post='9356403']
"If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life."

Why would Anderson (BALCO trainer) go to jail rather than testify in Bonds's perjury case?
[/quote]

You make no sense.

Galea said TW *did not* take PEDs.

Anderson *refused* to testify.

And

" The main contention of Anderson's appeal is that a secret, illegally-recorded tape of him discussing Bonds' steroid use was the basis for the grand jury questions he refused to answer. "

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds_perjury_case

" U.S. District Judge Susan Illston
 told jurors that the transcript they sought wasn’t evidence, only the recording was. As Bonds sat at the defense table, they listened to the tape, with several taking notes. Anderson is heard talking about cysts that can form at injection sites on the body, and Hoskins asks about “Barry’s.”
“I never just go there, I move it all over the place,” said a voice on the recording that Hoskins and a written transcript said was Anderson. The substances used were “undetectable,” Anderson is alleged to have said on the tape. Anderson had been discussing how the shots sometimes caused cysts that had to be drained. "

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-08/bonds-jury-asks-for-transcript-of-ex-partner-s-secret-recording-of-trainer.html

[albiefresh]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400883555' post='9356545']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400881884' post='9356403']
"If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life."

Why would Anderson (BALCO trainer) go to jail rather than testify in Bonds's perjury case?
[/quote]

You make no sense.

Galea said TW *did not* take PEDs.

Anderson *refused* to testify.

And

" The main contention of Anderson's appeal is that a secret, illegally-recorded tape of him discussing Bonds' steroid use was the basis for the grand jury questions he refused to answer. "

[url="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds_perjury_case"]http://en.m.wikipedi...ds_perjury_case[/url]

" U.S. District Judge Susan Illston
told jurors that the transcript they sought wasn't evidence, only the recording was. As Bonds sat at the defense table, they listened to the tape, with several taking notes. Anderson is heard talking about cysts that can form at injection sites on the body, and Hoskins asks about "Barry's."
"I never just go there, I move it all over the place," said a voice on the recording that Hoskins and a written transcript said was Anderson. The substances used were "undetectable," Anderson is alleged to have said on the tape. Anderson had been discussing how the shots sometimes caused cysts that had to be drained. "

[url="http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-08/bonds-jury-asks-for-transcript-of-ex-partner-s-secret-recording-of-trainer.html"]http://mobile.bloomb...of-trainer.html[/url]
[/quote]

Using Anderson was only because you seem to think that no one would risk going to jail. No big deal.

If you want a denial, Victor Conte of BALCO specifically denied giving Bonds steroids.

"[color=#000000][size=3]"BALCO did not give him steroids," Conte said Thursday by phone from Taft (Calif.) Correctional Facility, referring to the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative in Burlingame, Calif. "I never gave him steroids." [/size][/color]

And of course there is more evidence against Bonds - he eventually got caught (kind of I guess, since he hasn't had any punishment). No one is denying that. The point is that early on when there were only "unfounded allegations" and "internet rumors" of steroid use, the defenses of "he hasn't tested positive", "his Dr. denies it", and "the people in position to know have never accused him" were all applicable to Bonds.

As I have said all along, this is not proof that Tiger took PEDs. All I am saying is that the defenses of "he hasn't tested positive", "his Dr. denies it", and "his close associates haven't accused" him are weak, because the same could have been said for people we NOW know took PEDs, but were only suspected at the time.

[nbg352]

Reading all of the speculative at best evidence convicting Woods by many in this thread, makes me wonder if this is the way juries must conclude guilt or innocence, too. If it is, I am not at all surprised by the number of people who are now receiving new trials and winning appeals after having been wrongfully convicted and incarcerated. Or worse.
Show us hard evidence or keep it to yourselves. Otherwise you are nothing more than mere gossip mongers........

[Sean2]

You guys still speculating about the speculation? :-)

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400884393' post='9356613']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1400883555' post='9356545']
[quote name='albiefresh' timestamp='1400881884' post='9356403']
"If he did give TW PEDs, why not tell the Feds? If he gets caught lying to them, he is breaking rocks for the rest of his life."

Why would Anderson (BALCO trainer) go to jail rather than testify in Bonds's perjury case?
[/quote]

You make no sense.

Galea said TW *did not* take PEDs.

Anderson *refused* to testify.

And

" The main contention of Anderson's appeal is that a secret, illegally-recorded tape of him discussing Bonds' steroid use was the basis for the grand jury questions he refused to answer. "

[url="http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Bonds_perjury_case"]http://en.m.wikipedi...ds_perjury_case[/url]

" U.S. District Judge Susan Illston
told jurors that the transcript they sought wasn't evidence, only the recording was. As Bonds sat at the defense table, they listened to the tape, with several taking notes. Anderson is heard talking about cysts that can form at injection sites on the body, and Hoskins asks about "Barry's."
"I never just go there, I move it all over the place," said a voice on the recording that Hoskins and a written transcript said was Anderson. The substances used were "undetectable," Anderson is alleged to have said on the tape. Anderson had been discussing how the shots sometimes caused cysts that had to be drained. "

[url="http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-08/bonds-jury-asks-for-transcript-of-ex-partner-s-secret-recording-of-trainer.html"]http://mobile.bloomb...of-trainer.html[/url]
[/quote]

Using Anderson was only because you seem to think that no one would risk going to jail. No big deal.

If you want a denial, Victor Conte of BALCO specifically denied giving Bonds steroids.

"[color=#000000][size=3]"BALCO did not give him steroids," Conte said Thursday by phone from Taft (Calif.) Correctional Facility, referring to the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative in Burlingame, Calif. "I never gave him steroids." [/size][/color]

And of course there is more evidence against Bonds - he eventually got caught (kind of I guess, since he hasn't had any punishment). No one is denying that. The point is that early on when there were only "unfounded allegations" and "internet rumors" of steroid use, the defenses of "he hasn't tested positive", "his Dr. denies it", and "the people in position to know have never accused him" were all applicable to Bonds.

As I have said all along, this is not proof that Tiger took PEDs. All I am saying is that the defenses of "he hasn't tested positive", "his Dr. denies it", and "his close associates haven't accused" him are weak, because the same could have been said for people we NOW know took PEDs, but were only suspected at the time.
[/quote]

Conte said he didn't give Bonds steroids

Lol

What else did he say,

" Conte would not directly address whether Bonds could have gotten steroids that someone else received from BALCO. Greg Anderson, the personal trainer for the San Francisco Giants slugger, dealt with BALCO and its president, James Valente, who like Conte and Anderson pleaded guilty to federal charges including steroid distribution.


Conte said "on about a half dozen occasions" he gave Anderson the "clear," the formerly undetectable steroid THG, and the "cream," a mixture including testosterone."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-03-16-conte-denial_x.htm?csp=34

So, he says he did not give Bonds PEDs

But he freely admits giving them to

Barry Bonds trainer.

[Bob57]

Watch the size of his head going forward. If it shrinks he won't need as much spray on hair for his appearances...

[smiley9929]

So clearly the pga tour is the only pro sport where peds are non-existent.

[size=4]At least that's what they (pga tour as a whole) want you to believe.[/size]

The old 'self-regulation' and 'non-disclosure' program always seems to work well, right?

Bunch of goats.

[nochct1]

[quote name='smiley9929' timestamp='1400897832' post='9357991']
So clearly the pga tour is the only pro sport where peds are non-existent.

[size=4]At least that's what they (pga tour as a whole) want you to believe.[/size]

The old 'self-regulation' and 'non-disclosure' program always seems to work well, right?

Bunch of goats.
[/quote]

So which players do you think are taking PEDs?

[puttingmatt]

We have got to keep this thread going, This is priceless entertainment.
We have seen discussion on cranial function for 2 year olds, Baseballers,
and McCarthyism. But alas, we still have no smoking gun , where are the
videos, and the doctored drug test results ??

[scotee]

Kudos to the Mods/Management for letting this one roll. In the past any thread with PED got quashed in short order. What changed?