The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[Arafel]

If Tiger did any sort of PEDs it was probably for recuperation enhancement, not performance enhancement.

[DavePelz4]

Hasn't Arnold admitted to massive steroid use?

 

Yeah...I always thought he was very cut for a pig.

 

[QuigleyDU]

[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1402068062' post='9442631']
If Tiger did any sort of PEDs it was probably for recuperation enhancement, not performance enhancement.
[/quote]

thats like the difference between a 10 and two fives.

[pmo09]

[quote name='rafer11' timestamp='1401229443' post='9376981']
3) Those who 'need' to believe it to keep from shattering their reality of what they believe the world is. (You'll often hear the middle class say "I don't need money" or "Money is not that important" etc to hold onto the belief that there must be some 'secret' in getting rich. Maybe a friend of their got rich and they think "Oh man. LUCKY [as if luck had anything to do with it] John. I wonder 'HOW' he did it" as if there is some magical secret and formula to getting rich. The majority of people believe this. It's called hard work. By this same token, people's realities can't accept that someone could be THIS successful without some 'secret', some formula, some '30 second abs' magic pill. Here's the reality. A guy like Tiger Woods, or Arnold Schwarzenegger, or insert your favorite capable human here... is simply harder working than you. You want to know their secret, read The Slight Edge. Their secret is that when put in in a situation and faced with a very small and insignificant decision... they make the correct decision every time.

Robert Herjavic told a story about how Woods was to play a game with himself and some others up in the Maritimes. In Tiger's contract, it states a pilot cannot land in an airport after dark if the pilot has not landed there before. The plane had to turn around, and he had to be flown by helicopter all the way there. Robert said Tiger arrived at something like 3am, dead tired, and was up at 4am in the Hotel gym working out. You see... when #3 is faced with this decision, he turns his alarm off for 'just 10 more minutes'. He wakes up at 10, and proceeds to do the same with every other little decision in his life. January 1st he heads to the gym to fulfill his yearly promise to himself, which no doubt will be broken in under 4 weeks. He goes on a diet as well. "Should I have this Snickers bar or this Carrot? Hmm. It's only this one little Snickers bar, plus I ran an extra half mile today so I can afford it." Thing is... every time #3 is faced with this decision... this seemingly small, unimportant decision... he chooses the impulse, the short term... not the long term goal. 3 weeks in he went to bed 'late' [2 hours] and in the morning he 'doesn't want to tax his body with only 5 of sleep and a workout' so he'll just 'go tomorrow'. This is the end of his yearly news year resolution. 365 days later, he's had the 'insignificant just one time' snickers bar worth 300 calories, which is packing on ~1lb every 2 weeks.

The majority of people are #3 type personalities. They cannot understand the likes of a successful person like Tiger Woods or Arnold without some sort explanation like cheating being behind it because it would shatter their reality of what is possible.
[/quote]

Wow, that's an amazing post and incredibly motivational.

That's what I was trying to get at when I made this post and mentioned people say he took steroids to "feel better about themselves". Everyone wants to believe there is some shortcut that makes people successful because it shields you from the harsh reality that 99.9% of all cases is discipline and hard work.

Take this for example - I work with too many people that are constantly dieting but make terrible food choices because "they took the stairs today" or used margarine on their toast instead of butter. The lack of knowledge about what people put into their body is actually pretty frightening. Taking the stairs literally does nothing, and read the label on margarine next time - its the same thing as butter. I believe that if you have a goal, you sure as hell better be knowledgeable about how to achieve it. Without this knowledge, how can you be disciplined? I live downtown Toronto and walk about 2 miles to work every day. I don't even consider this when I talk about my exercise, that walk is negligible. My personal goal right now is to increase my cardio level. On Tuesday, I played Hockey at 7pm and ran 3 miles (5.5km) 45 minutes before the game, and then played at a high level. 99% of people I know would have skipped their daily exercise because they would get enough exercise in that hockey game. It takes drive and dedication to get where Tiger has gotten, and I suspect that drive and dedication will allow him to become #1 again when he returns from injury

[Yrrdead]

I know some of you already have seen this and this won't be the source video but let me let you guys in on a little secret of what hard work and a whole lot of f@##$%$# drugs can do for you.
Vid is about 2min and there is some adult language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTVWrknCISE

[dn0614]

As I understand it, the PGA Tour didn't have an official policy banning PED's before 2008. If that's the case, anything he took (if in fact he did) is within the rules. I don't understand why it's even a valid point of discussion.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1402022784' post='9440001']
I didn't even know this was a rumor?
[/quote]LMAO, this is what I said in my original post, lol.

I think that this was just started out of boredom and look where we are, LMAO

Oh well, it does pass the time, lol.

Have a nice week-end

All The Best,
Richard

[Forewood]

I believe it is a very fair argument to make that Tiger has abused some sort of banned substance. Here's why....

When's the last time you heard of a basketball, football, baseball, ect get caught using PEDs? Every week?

How about golf? Vijay and deer antler spray? That's it!

Finchem goes to great details to hide any drug abuse on tour. They VERY randomly test for drugs and PEDs and when they do guys get busted all the time! But the media never heard about it....instead you have guys withdraw last minute due to a "stomach bug" or "sprained wrist" or some kind of simple "injury" or illness on Monday or Tuesday. Dustin Johnson jas been busted with cocaine in his system several times and that's common knowledge for the inside circle on tour.

Think how bad the image of the PGA Tour would be shattered if guys were testing positive for pot or coke , or pain pills, or adderall, ect....it would happen every week! That's another reason the first few alternates always end up getting in the tourney! The tours brand would be ruined , so it's in everyone beat interest to keep that info private. Esp if Tiger got busted.

We will never know the truth until he retires and writes a book or makes a movie...and even then we won't know about it all. But please don't be naive and assume all these guys including mr woods are squeaky clean and sober.

So regardless of what I believe there has been no proof I have seen but it's at the very least FAIR to question it.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1401249922' post='9379551']
Hasn't Arnold admitted to massive steroid use?
[/quote]Yea, myriad times, though the first time was an interview in 1977.

Though make no mistake, he was the hardest worker in every gym that he ever stepped into.

Fairways & Greens My Friends-

Have a great week-end,

All The Best,
Richard

[puttingmatt]

[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1402073835' post='9443299']
[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1402068062' post='9442631']
If Tiger did any sort of PEDs it was probably for recuperation enhancement, not performance enhancement.
[/quote]

thats like the difference between a 10 and two fives.
[/quote]

Exactly, would not be surprised that he is being helped as he heals from back surgery.
No tests to worry about when you're not playing .

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='puttingmatt' timestamp='1402112209' post='9447077']
[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1402073835' post='9443299']
[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1402068062' post='9442631']
If Tiger did any sort of PEDs it was probably for recuperation enhancement, not performance enhancement.
[/quote]

thats like the difference between a 10 and two fives.
[/quote]

Exactly, would not be surprised that he is being helped as he heals from back surgery.
No tests to worry about when you're not playing .
[/quote]

Me either!!

How he could do this without some help?

http://youtu.be/Nz47-PtrAyw

[TorreyPines]

I’d like to prelude the crux of this post by stating that I have been an enormous Tiger Woods fan for just about fourteen years now. His brilliance first came to my attention when he massacred the field in the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach by an eye-watering fifteen strokes, and my devotion never wavered, even when some of his unpleasant behaviour off the golf course came to light after that fateful night in November 2009.

It is precisely because he has meant so much to me throughout my childhood, and now into my twenties, that this has been so hard to admit. However, the time for denial is over, and my true feelings must come to the fore. OK, here it goes… unfortunately, and I really do mean unfortunately, I believe that Tiger was using performance-enhancing drugs for at least a few years during his storied career. If I had to guess, going by the transformation in his physique and the concurrent spike in performance, I would say he began taking shortcuts at some point around 2005, carrying on either until 2008 (when the PGA Tour’s doping policy came into play, just after he took time off for knee surgery) or late 2009 (when Dr Anthony Galea was found out to be a supplier of PEDs).

There are just way, way too many coincidences for this not to be the case. Please allow me to state my case:

1. The most obvious piece of evidence comes from sheer, hard facts. Tiger Woods hired a Canadian doctor who was a known distributor of PEDs such as HGH to carry out plasma rich therapy at his Florida home. WHY an earth would you do that when there are an abundance of qualified therapists much nearer to home? Upon his return at the US Masters in 2010, Tiger was asked what procedure(s) Dr Galea performed during his rehab from the ACL tear. What he should have been asked was “Why did you hire a known PED distributor in the first place?” He was really let off the hook here, and it’s incredible that more hasn’t been more made of this issue since. So many top sportsmen share doctor’s, lawyer’s, dentist’s etc, so it’s highly dubious, to put it mildly, that while many of Dr Galea’s patients have been found guilty of taking banned substances, we are supposed to believe that the number one golfer in the world and possibly of all time is one of the only clean ones. This alone should raise red flags to even the most ardent of Tiger’s followers. However, there’s more…

2. Tiger’s personal trainer, Keith Kleven, has links to BALCO:

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/iteam/tiger-answer-link-roid-doc-blog-entry-1.1631874"]http://www.nydailyne...entry-1.1631874[/url]

And others who have treated Woods aren’t squeaky-clean either:

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/keith-kleven-helped-tiger-woods-turn-golf-geek-buffed-athlete-quiet-article-1.437945#ixzz34MhCfiiT"]http://www.nydailyne...5#ixzz34MhCfiiT[/url]

“The drug questions also bring new scrutiny to others who have trained or treated Woods, including [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Mark+Lindsay"]Mark Lindsay[/url], a Canadian chiropractor who worked with Galea and treated [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York+Yankees"]Yankees[/url] star [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Alex+Rodriguez"]Alex Rodriguez[/url] after his 2009 hip surgery; and [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/MaryAnne+Catalano"]MaryAnne Catalano[/url], as assistant to Galea who was arrested on Sept. 14 at the U.S.-Canada border near Buffalo and found to be in possession of HGH and medical equipment, along with Galea's medical bag.”

3. The PGA Tour began their anti-doping policy on July 1st, 2008, at the AT&T National. Tiger’s last appearance of the season was between the 12th-15th June, in the US Open at Torrey Pines. The next event he would have played, if not for the torn ACL, would have been… yep, you guessed it. Now it would be ludicrous to claim that the injury and subsequent surgery was all a sham, so I’m not going to go down that route. Tiger claimed he had been playing with an injury since July 2007, which I’m willing to go with. However, my belief is that PEDs such as testosterone and steroids are exactly what helped Tiger play through the injury, and it is because these were no longer viable options with the new policy in place that there was no choice but to have the surgery and look to heal naturally (at least for the most part).

Supporting this claim (3) is the fact that Tiger’s rapid physical transformation from 2005 or so through 2008 became more apparent from the summer of 2007 onwards (remember the extraordinary physique displayed in the tight red shirt on Sunday at Oakmont?) If he did injure himself in the summer of 2007, it would make sense to up the dosage of PEDs in order to heal quicker and be able to play through the pain barrier. He also strung together probably the greatest stretch of his career during this time, winning 10 out of 13 events between the Bridgestone in August 2007 and the US Open in 2008, with his other finishes comprising of two miserable 2nds and a shocking 5th!)

4. Now I mentioned a little while ago that I felt the recovery from the ACL injury was undertaken in a more natural way than the “supplements” used in the few years prior. This doesn’t mean everything was totally above board, and is where Dr Galea comes in. Before the anti-doping policy was introduced, it would presumably be no problem ordering testosterone and the like from more ‘mainstream’ sources, such as the Biogenesis clinic in Miami (note, Biogenesis is only being used as an example, I don't necessarily trust the validity of this story due to the sketchy source):

//lannyhgolf.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/is-the-pga-hiding-tiger-woods-link-to-biogenesis-and-steroids/

Once the policy came into play, you would have to be more canny. I believe when Tiger was off with this ACL injury, he dropped the testosterone and the steroids as a positive drug test would signal the end of his career, and all the dreams of passing Jack and becoming the best there’s ever been would be forever crushed.

However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and widespread throughout all of sport. Tiger had to retain his edge and athletic advantage over the rest of the field somehow, and it would make sense for this to be the one PED out of the three biggies to remain as part of the regime. Surely an HGH expert such as Dr Galea would be able to administer the hormone in such a way as to make it look natural?

5. When Dr Galea was found guilty, that’s when the last of the cocktail of PEDs had to go. And surprise, surprise, the injuries start to pile up in a way they never had before… the walk-off at The Players, the withdrawal at Doral through a “tight achilles” (from the man who won the US Open on one leg!) Suddenly the man who could play through anything was a lot more fragile. A cynical person might suggest that the weak tendons and ligaments are a classic case of post-PED withdrawal (not me of course!)

So, am I saying that all of Tiger’s success was built on a foundation of lies? Not really. I don’t believe he was juicing earlier in his career, such as in 2000, which is rightly considered to be his finest year of Tour. With or without enhancements he would have been the greatest player in the world, just maybe not by quite such an astonishing distance.

Many people say that steroids, testosterone, HGH etc. would be of little use to a golfer. This is true when looking at individual facets of the game in isolation, such as driving distance, iron play and short game. However, what they forget is that PEDs help with your endurance and therefore allow you to train harder. How can it not be an advantage to have the physical stamina to practice for eight hours a day rather than four? And for that matter, how can it not be an advantage to feel as fresh as a daisy walking down the 72nd hole of a tournament while your opponents are beginning to tire (especially in humid conditions, a la Southern Hills, 2007 PGA).

Recovery time after exertion is also sped up dramatically, so you can be at your best every single week. It’s interesting that as Tiger increased in size and was at his most physically impressive, he was suddenly able to put himself in contention pretty much every single week. Look at the absurd level of consistency from 2006-2009 and compare it to that of 2001-2002, two hugely impressive years but nowhere near as consistent. Post-2009/Dr G, Tiger has began to have many more off-weeks where he doesn’t even come close to winning, which is understandable as physical energy levels wax and wane. This can be explained in 2010 and 2011 through swing changes, personal trauma etc. but not so much from 2012 onwards, where he clearly has the game to play the lights out but can’t do so on a consistent basis. Not being quite as fresh from day-to-day due to lack of enhancements will do that to you.

Another, much under-appreciated benefit of PED’s is the MENTAL well-being they provide. What do steroids, testosterone and HGH all have in common? They make you feel youthful, confident and capable of achieving anything. Take a cocktail of all three and you start to feel bulletproof. If you walk around in a state of euphoria believing you are the man, then you are much more likely to hit that great drive or hole that clutch putt on the 72nd hole under the most intense pressure. Without the added help, these things won’t come quite as easily (notice how the clutch putting has almost evaporated in recent years? Or how about how he often shoots [i]atrocious[/i] scores on the weekend now, as in worst of the top 40 players or so on the leaderboard, when not leading heading into the round but within two or three shots of the pacesetter).

Tiger has always been known as a terrific closer of tournaments. However, it may surprise you to learn that when he was a wiry young man, not pumped full of exogenous testosterone and anabolic steroids, he was much more prone to hitting poor shots under pressure (relating to my ‘confidence’ point above).

2000-2001 is considered by many to be his finest stretch, but think about some of the crazy shots that were hit during the business end of tournaments:

- The drive that was sliced miles right on the 2nd hole of the 2000 PGA playoff against Bob May, which would have resulted in a bogey if for not the tremendous slice of luck afforded on the 2nd shot, in which Tiger’s ball hit the cart path and trundled on over the green into par-saving territory.

- The even worse drive on the 3rd and final playoff hole which would have been unplayable had some kid not thrown in out of the wilderness back down the cart path. This was one of the most fortunate playoff victories of all time.

- 2001 Bay Hill Invitational – 16th hole, final round: Tiger hits it 2 feet from OB. Then hits another disastrous tee shot on the 18th which only avoids going OB as a lone spectator’s head gets in the way!)

- 2001 NEC Invitational – Only requires par on the final hour to beat Furyk, yet somehow manages to miss the green with a pitching wedge from the centre of the fairway and winds up with a bogey. Hits two or three woeful drives in the playoff but is fortunate as each result in playable seconds, and can also thank his lucky stars that Furyk misses a multitude of makeable birdie putts which would have put the tournament to bed. Wins on the 7th extra hole.

- 2001 Dubai Desert Classic – Shocking drive on the final hole, ending in a huge upset as Thomas Bjorn slays the mighty Tiger (who hits his third into the water and makes double).

- In general, Tiger would often bogey the final hole of a tournament when he was in the lead, albeit sometimes when his nearest challenger had to birdie it. This is a trait which has returned post-Galea.

When did this ever happen once Tiger had bulked up? (And in my opinion was on this cocktail of confidence boosters). Think Hank Haney era basically. The only example I can muster is the bogey-bogey finish at the 2005 Masters, but I think Tiger always finds it tough to win the first major after a drought, it wouldn’t be human not to feel nervous, testosterone or no testosterone. Back nine of 1999 PGA and the lost opportunities in recent years are cases in point. Anyway, he became much more proficient at hitting clutch shots from the middle of last decade through almost to the end of it, whereas before then he was more of a clutch putter than a consistently clutch ball striker.

So, given my assertion that Tiger wasn’t juicing during some of the best years of this career, and therefore was clearly the best golfer in the world either way, why would he use anything? My belief is that the pressure of winning majors and passing Jack started to take its toll at some point during the early to mid 2000s (which is alluded to by Hank Haney in ‘The Big Miss’ actually), so external ways of finding supreme confidence and keeping his edge over the competition were required. As I said earlier, if you’re taking testosterone, HGH and steroids, you’ll feel like nothing is out of reach – wouldn’t you love to stand over a 15 foot putt to win a major feeling that way?

This isn’t intended as a windup and certainly isn’t written with the intention of inciting hatred and/or anger. All I want is a reasonable discussion on the matter. I want more than anything in the world to believe that Tiger was a clean athlete (I have no doubt that he is now) so if any of the great members here can convince me then that’s fantastic. I’d like to hear from both ends of the spectrum really, from Tiger fans who believe that the PED accusations are are a load of hot air, and from those who may confess to having doubts on the man’s legacy. Questioning doesn’t make you any less of a fan, it’s only natural to ask questions and to live in a state of blind adoration is very dangerous indeed, as we have found with plenty of other sportsmen in recent years.

[hazebronso]

So basically from what I've glimpsed in above article/post it would lead me to believe that Tigers incredible swing speed just suddenly came out of no where. Besides the well documented feats of Tiger Woods throughout his life including his measured swing speed of 120+ as an 18 year old amateur, I would be led to believe that like the baseball player with a career .220 avg that suddenly jumps to .320 while doubling his home run output that Tigers feats of greatness were not displayed well before 2005. Furthermore a change in physique by putting on 40 lbs of muscle over a 10 year span is hardly speculative of any PED use, ie Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant (25lbs in 2 years) and literally thousands of other high profile athletes.

[scotee]

Wow! that is quite a first post.

[bscinstnct]

^ Good post Torrey

One question on this>

[b][color=#282828]"However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and widespread throughout all of sport. Tiger had to retain his edge and athletic advantage over the rest of the field somehow, and it would make sense for this to be the one PED out of the three biggies to remain as part of the regime. Surely an HGH expert such as Dr Galea would be able to administer the hormone in such a way as to make it look natural?[/color]

[color=#282828]5. When Dr Galea was found guilty, that’s when the last of the cocktail of PEDs had to go. "[/color][/b]

[color="#282828"]I believe that Galea made a deal with the Feds. Why didn't he say TW was on PEDs? In fact, seems like he went out of his way to say TW was not on PEDs. [/color]

[golfer]

[quote name='TorreyPines' timestamp='1402519568' post='9475651']
I’d like to prelude the crux of this post by stating that I have been an enormous Tiger Woods fan for just about fourteen years now. His brilliance first came to my attention when he massacred the field in the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach by an eye-watering fifteen strokes, and my devotion never wavered, even when some of his unpleasant behaviour off the golf course came to light after that fateful night in November 2009.

It is precisely because he has meant so much to me throughout my childhood, and now into my twenties, that this has been so hard to admit. However, the time for denial is over, and my true feelings must come to the fore. OK, here it goes… unfortunately, and I really do mean unfortunately, I believe that Tiger was using performance-enhancing drugs for at least a few years during his storied career. If I had to guess, going by the transformation in his physique and the concurrent spike in performance, I would say he began taking shortcuts at some point around 2005, carrying on either until 2008 (when the PGA Tour’s doping policy came into play, just after he took time off for knee surgery) or late 2009 (when Dr Anthony Galea was found out to be a supplier of PEDs).

[b]There are just way, way too many coincidences for this not to be the case. Please allow me to state my case[/b]:

1. The most obvious piece of evidence comes from sheer, hard facts. Tiger Woods hired a Canadian doctor who was a known distributor of PEDs such as HGH to carry out plasma rich therapy at his Florida home. WHY an earth would you do that when there are an abundance of qualified therapists much nearer to home? Upon his return at the US Masters in 2010, Tiger was asked what procedure(s) Dr Galea performed during his rehab from the ACL tear. What he should have been asked was “Why did you hire a known PED distributor in the first place?” He was really let off the hook here, and it’s incredible that more hasn’t been more made of this issue since. So many top sportsmen share doctor’s, lawyer’s, dentist’s etc, so it’s highly dubious, to put it mildly, that while many of Dr Galea’s patients have been found guilty of taking banned substances, we are supposed to believe that the number one golfer in the world and possibly of all time is one of the only clean ones. This alone should raise red flags to even the most ardent of Tiger’s followers. However, there’s more…

2. Tiger’s personal trainer, Keith Kleven, has links to BALCO:

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/iteam/tiger-answer-link-roid-doc-blog-entry-1.1631874"]http://www.nydailyne...entry-1.1631874[/url]

And others who have treated Woods aren’t squeaky-clean either:

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/keith-kleven-helped-tiger-woods-turn-golf-geek-buffed-athlete-quiet-article-1.437945#ixzz34MhCfiiT"]http://www.nydailyne...5#ixzz34MhCfiiT[/url]

“The drug questions also bring new scrutiny to others who have trained or treated Woods, including [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Mark+Lindsay"]Mark Lindsay[/url], a Canadian chiropractor who worked with Galea and treated [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York+Yankees"]Yankees[/url] star [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Alex+Rodriguez"]Alex Rodriguez[/url] after his 2009 hip surgery; and [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/MaryAnne+Catalano"]MaryAnne Catalano[/url], as assistant to Galea who was arrested on Sept. 14 at the U.S.-Canada border near Buffalo and found to be in possession of HGH and medical equipment, along with Galea's medical bag.”

3. The PGA Tour began their anti-doping policy on July 1st, 2008, at the AT&T National. Tiger’s last appearance of the season was between the 12th-15th June, in the US Open at Torrey Pines. The next event he would have played, if not for the torn ACL, would have been… yep, you guessed it. Now it would be ludicrous to claim that the injury and subsequent surgery was all a sham, so I’m not going to go down that route. Tiger claimed he had been playing with an injury since July 2007, which I’m willing to go with. However, my belief is that PEDs such as testosterone and steroids are exactly what helped Tiger play through the injury, and it is because these were no longer viable options with the new policy in place that there was no choice but to have the surgery and look to heal naturally (at least for the most part).

Supporting this claim (3) is the fact that Tiger’s rapid physical transformation from 2005 or so through 2008 became more apparent from the summer of 2007 onwards (remember the extraordinary physique displayed in the tight red shirt on Sunday at Oakmont?) If he did injure himself in the summer of 2007, it would make sense to up the dosage of PEDs in order to heal quicker and be able to play through the pain barrier. He also strung together probably the greatest stretch of his career during this time, winning 10 out of 13 events between the Bridgestone in August 2007 and the US Open in 2008, with his other finishes comprising of two miserable 2nds and a shocking 5th!)

4. Now I mentioned a little while ago that I felt the recovery from the ACL injury was undertaken in a more natural way than the “supplements” used in the few years prior. This doesn’t mean everything was totally above board, and is where Dr Galea comes in. Before the anti-doping policy was introduced, it would presumably be no problem ordering testosterone and the like from more ‘mainstream’ sources, such as the Biogenesis clinic in Miami (note, Biogenesis is only being used as an example, I don't necessarily trust the validity of this story due to the sketchy source):

//lannyhgolf.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/is-the-pga-hiding-tiger-woods-link-to-biogenesis-and-steroids/

Once the policy came into play, you would have to be more canny. I believe when Tiger was off with this ACL injury, he dropped the testosterone and the steroids as a positive drug test would signal the end of his career, and all the dreams of passing Jack and becoming the best there’s ever been would be forever crushed.

However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and widespread throughout all of sport. Tiger had to retain his edge and athletic advantage over the rest of the field somehow, and it would make sense for this to be the one PED out of the three biggies to remain as part of the regime. Surely an HGH expert such as Dr Galea would be able to administer the hormone in such a way as to make it look natural?

5. When Dr Galea was found guilty, that’s when the last of the cocktail of PEDs had to go. And surprise, surprise, the injuries start to pile up in a way they never had before… the walk-off at The Players, the withdrawal at Doral through a “tight achilles” (from the man who won the US Open on one leg!) Suddenly the man who could play through anything was a lot more fragile. A cynical person might suggest that the weak tendons and ligaments are a classic case of post-PED withdrawal (not me of course!)

So, am I saying that all of Tiger’s success was built on a foundation of lies? Not really. I don’t believe he was juicing earlier in his career, such as in 2000, which is rightly considered to be his finest year of Tour. With or without enhancements he would have been the greatest player in the world, just maybe not by quite such an astonishing distance.

Many people say that steroids, testosterone, HGH etc. would be of little use to a golfer. This is true when looking at individual facets of the game in isolation, such as driving distance, iron play and short game. However, what they forget is that PEDs help with your endurance and therefore allow you to train harder. How can it not be an advantage to have the physical stamina to practice for eight hours a day rather than four? And for that matter, how can it not be an advantage to feel as fresh as a daisy walking down the 72nd hole of a tournament while your opponents are beginning to tire (especially in humid conditions, a la Southern Hills, 2007 PGA).

Recovery time after exertion is also sped up dramatically, so you can be at your best every single week. It’s interesting that as Tiger increased in size and was at his most physically impressive, he was suddenly able to put himself in contention pretty much every single week. Look at the absurd level of consistency from 2006-2009 and compare it to that of 2001-2002, two hugely impressive years but nowhere near as consistent. Post-2009/Dr G, Tiger has began to have many more off-weeks where he doesn’t even come close to winning, which is understandable as physical energy levels wax and wane. This can be explained in 2010 and 2011 through swing changes, personal trauma etc. but not so much from 2012 onwards, where he clearly has the game to play the lights out but can’t do so on a consistent basis. Not being quite as fresh from day-to-day due to lack of enhancements will do that to you.

Another, much under-appreciated benefit of PED’s is the MENTAL well-being they provide. What do steroids, testosterone and HGH all have in common? They make you feel youthful, confident and capable of achieving anything. Take a cocktail of all three and you start to feel bulletproof. If you walk around in a state of euphoria believing you are the man, then you are much more likely to hit that great drive or hole that clutch putt on the 72nd hole under the most intense pressure. Without the added help, these things won’t come quite as easily (notice how the clutch putting has almost evaporated in recent years? Or how about how he often shoots [i]atrocious[/i] scores on the weekend now, as in worst of the top 40 players or so on the leaderboard, when not leading heading into the round but within two or three shots of the pacesetter).

Tiger has always been known as a terrific closer of tournaments. However, it may surprise you to learn that when he was a wiry young man, not pumped full of exogenous testosterone and anabolic steroids, he was much more prone to hitting poor shots under pressure (relating to my ‘confidence’ point above).

2000-2001 is considered by many to be his finest stretch, but think about some of the crazy shots that were hit during the business end of tournaments:

- The drive that was sliced miles right on the 2nd hole of the 2000 PGA playoff against Bob May, which would have resulted in a bogey if for not the tremendous slice of luck afforded on the 2nd shot, in which Tiger’s ball hit the cart path and trundled on over the green into par-saving territory.

- The even worse drive on the 3rd and final playoff hole which would have been unplayable had some kid not thrown in out of the wilderness back down the cart path. This was one of the most fortunate playoff victories of all time.

- 2001 Bay Hill Invitational – 16th hole, final round: Tiger hits it 2 feet from OB. Then hits another disastrous tee shot on the 18th which only avoids going OB as a lone spectator’s head gets in the way!)

- 2001 NEC Invitational – Only requires par on the final hour to beat Furyk, yet somehow manages to miss the green with a pitching wedge from the centre of the fairway and winds up with a bogey. Hits two or three woeful drives in the playoff but is fortunate as each result in playable seconds, and can also thank his lucky stars that Furyk misses a multitude of makeable birdie putts which would have put the tournament to bed. Wins on the 7th extra hole.

- 2001 Dubai Desert Classic – Shocking drive on the final hole, ending in a huge upset as Thomas Bjorn slays the mighty Tiger (who hits his third into the water and makes double).

- In general, Tiger would often bogey the final hole of a tournament when he was in the lead, albeit sometimes when his nearest challenger had to birdie it. This is a trait which has returned post-Galea.

When did this ever happen once Tiger had bulked up? (And in my opinion was on this cocktail of confidence boosters). Think Hank Haney era basically. The only example I can muster is the bogey-bogey finish at the 2005 Masters, but I think Tiger always finds it tough to win the first major after a drought, it wouldn’t be human not to feel nervous, testosterone or no testosterone. Back nine of 1999 PGA and the lost opportunities in recent years are cases in point. Anyway, he became much more proficient at hitting clutch shots from the middle of last decade through almost to the end of it, whereas before then he was more of a clutch putter than a consistently clutch ball striker.

So, given my assertion that Tiger wasn’t juicing during some of the best years of this career, and therefore was clearly the best golfer in the world either way, why would he use anything? My belief is that the pressure of winning majors and passing Jack started to take its toll at some point during the early to mid 2000s (which is alluded to by Hank Haney in ‘The Big Miss’ actually), so external ways of finding supreme confidence and keeping his edge over the competition were required. As I said earlier, if you’re taking testosterone, HGH and steroids, you’ll feel like nothing is out of reach – wouldn’t you love to stand over a 15 foot putt to win a major feeling that way?

This isn’t intended as a windup and certainly isn’t written with the intention of inciting hatred and/or anger. All I want is a reasonable discussion on the matter. I want more than anything in the world to believe that Tiger was a clean athlete (I have no doubt that he is now) so if any of the great members here can convince me then that’s fantastic. I’d like to hear from both ends of the spectrum really, from Tiger fans who believe that the PED accusations are are a load of hot air, and from those who may confess to having doubts on the man’s legacy. Questioning doesn’t make you any less of a fan, it’s only natural to ask questions and to live in a state of blind adoration is very dangerous indeed, as we have found with plenty of other sportsmen in recent years.
[/quote]


You are entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to express your opinion. You are entitled to "state my case".

Your "case" is filled with innuendo and conjecture but does not include an ounce of factual evidence that proves Tiger used "PEDs" or steroids.

[Tim Meitner]

Actually...in a situation such as this, about the only factual evidence that could possibly surface is if Woods himself spilled the beans. Practically [b]anything[/b] short of that is as you say, "innuendo and conjecture".

I suppose if Galea and crew came out and said he did, that would be damning. But I suspect that even that still wouldn't be enough proof for his ardent supporters.

[TorreyPines]

[quote name='hazebronso' timestamp='1402521631' post='9475843']
So basically from what I've glimpsed in above article/post it would lead me to believe that Tigers incredible swing speed just suddenly came out of no where. Besides the well documented feats of Tiger Woods throughout his life including his measured swing speed of 120+ as an 18 year old amateur, I would be led to believe that like the baseball player with a career .220 avg that suddenly jumps to .320 while doubling his home run output that Tigers feats of greatness were not displayed well before 2005. Furthermore a change in physique by putting on 40 lbs of muscle over a 10 year span is hardly speculative of any PED use, ie Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant (25lbs in 2 years) and literally thousands of other high profile athletes.
[/quote]

Well, I never mentioned Tiger’s swing speed, or insinuated that PEDs might provide him with the ability to hit the ball further, so not really sure what point you’re trying to make here. Much of the concern around PEDs in golf is misplaced – the focus should be on physical advantages they promote such as the ability to practice for longer hours and still feel fresh at the business end of tournaments, as well as the state of mental bliss and absolute confidence that many users of testosterone and HGH report. Whether these hormones, for example, would help you hit the ball further, is debateable, and receives an inordinate amount of focus at the expense of more critical issues.

Also, there are several references in my post to the fact that Tiger was still pretty damn good before 2005, e.g.:

“His brilliance first came to my attention when he massacred the field in the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach by an eye-watering fifteen strokes”

“So, am I saying that all of Tiger’s success was built on a foundation of lies? Not really. I don’t believe he was juicing earlier in his career, such as in 2000, which is rightly considered to be his finest year of Tour. With or without enhancements he would have been the greatest player in the world, just maybe not by quite such an astonishing distance.”

“Look at the absurd level of consistency from 2006-2009 and compare it to that of 2001-2002, two hugely impressive years but nowhere near as consistent.”

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1402521937' post='9475863']
^ Good post Torrey

One question on this>

[b][color=#282828]"However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and widespread throughout all of sport. Tiger had to retain his edge and athletic advantage over the rest of the field somehow, and it would make sense for this to be the one PED out of the three biggies to remain as part of the regime. Surely an HGH expert such as Dr Galea would be able to administer the hormone in such a way as to make it look natural?[/color]

[color=#282828]5. When Dr Galea was found guilty, that’s when the last of the cocktail of PEDs had to go. "[/color][/b]

[color=#282828]I believe that Galea made a deal with the Feds. Why didn't he say TW was on PEDs? In fact, seems like he went out of his way to say TW was not on PEDs. [/color]
[/quote]

Thank you, I appreciate it. That’s a good question, and probably the most difficult one to answer. My [i]guesses[/i] would be that either (a) he did just administer PRP upon visiting Tiger’s home in February and March 2009, but provided details of licensed practitioners in the US that could prescribe ‘other substances’, (b) not he, but rather one of his associates, such as Mark Lindsay or MaryAnne Catalano, provided Tiger with the PEDs, or, most unlikely by some distance (c) Tiger, quite possibly being a billionaire, paid Anthony Galea an extravagant sum for his treatment, on the grounds of unconditional confidentiality should anything find its way into the public domain regarding possible PED use.

[quote name='golfer' timestamp='1402524274' post='9476067']

You are entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to express your opinion. You are entitled to "state my case".

Your "case" is filled with innuendo and conjecture but does not include an ounce of factual evidence that proves Tiger used "PEDs" or steroids.
[/quote]

[quote name='Tim Meitner' timestamp='1402528263' post='9476443']
Actually...in a situation such as this, about the only factual evidence that could possibly surface is if Woods himself spilled the beans. Practically [b]anything[/b] short of that is as you say, "innuendo and conjecture".

I suppose if Galea and crew came out and said he did, that would be damning. But I suspect that even that still wouldn't be enough proof for his ardent supporters.
[/quote]

Thanks Tim, that’s pretty much the gist of the reply I was going to give you, ‘golfer’.

[DavePelz4]

I'm just shocked that TW's trainer was Cliff Klaven. He must have taken a class or two after retiring from the. USPS.

[Playaway]

[quote name='TorreyPines' timestamp='1402519568' post='9475651']
I’d like to prelude the crux of this post by stating that I have been an enormous Tiger Woods fan for just about fourteen years now. His brilliance first came to my attention when he massacred the field in the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach by an eye-watering fifteen strokes, and my devotion never wavered, even when some of his unpleasant behaviour off the golf course came to light after that fateful night in November 2009.

It is precisely because he has meant so much to me throughout my childhood, and now into my twenties, that this has been so hard to admit. However, the time for denial is over, and my true feelings must come to the fore. OK, here it goes… unfortunately, and I really do mean unfortunately, I believe that Tiger was using performance-enhancing drugs for at least a few years during his storied career. If I had to guess, going by the transformation in his physique and the concurrent spike in performance, I would say he began taking shortcuts at some point around 2005, carrying on either until 2008 (when the PGA Tour’s doping policy came into play, just after he took time off for knee surgery) or late 2009 (when Dr Anthony Galea was found out to be a supplier of PEDs).

There are just way, way too many coincidences for this not to be the case. Please allow me to state my case:

1. The most obvious piece of evidence comes from sheer, hard facts. Tiger Woods hired a Canadian doctor who was a known distributor of PEDs such as HGH to carry out plasma rich therapy at his Florida home. WHY an earth would you do that when there are an abundance of qualified therapists much nearer to home? Upon his return at the US Masters in 2010, Tiger was asked what procedure(s) Dr Galea performed during his rehab from the ACL tear. What he should have been asked was “Why did you hire a known PED distributor in the first place?” He was really let off the hook here, and it’s incredible that more hasn’t been more made of this issue since. So many top sportsmen share doctor’s, lawyer’s, dentist’s etc, so it’s highly dubious, to put it mildly, that while many of Dr Galea’s patients have been found guilty of taking banned substances, we are supposed to believe that the number one golfer in the world and possibly of all time is one of the only clean ones. This alone should raise red flags to even the most ardent of Tiger’s followers. However, there’s more…

2. Tiger’s personal trainer, Keith Kleven, has links to BALCO:

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/iteam/tiger-answer-link-roid-doc-blog-entry-1.1631874"]http://www.nydailyne...entry-1.1631874[/url]

And others who have treated Woods aren’t squeaky-clean either:

[url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/keith-kleven-helped-tiger-woods-turn-golf-geek-buffed-athlete-quiet-article-1.437945#ixzz34MhCfiiT"]http://www.nydailyne...5#ixzz34MhCfiiT[/url]

“The drug questions also bring new scrutiny to others who have trained or treated Woods, including [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Mark+Lindsay"]Mark Lindsay[/url], a Canadian chiropractor who worked with Galea and treated [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York+Yankees"]Yankees[/url] star [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Alex+Rodriguez"]Alex Rodriguez[/url] after his 2009 hip surgery; and [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/MaryAnne+Catalano"]MaryAnne Catalano[/url], as assistant to Galea who was arrested on Sept. 14 at the U.S.-Canada border near Buffalo and found to be in possession of HGH and medical equipment, along with Galea's medical bag.”

3. The PGA Tour began their anti-doping policy on July 1st, 2008, at the AT&T National. Tiger’s last appearance of the season was between the 12th-15th June, in the US Open at Torrey Pines. The next event he would have played, if not for the torn ACL, would have been… yep, you guessed it. Now it would be ludicrous to claim that the injury and subsequent surgery was all a sham, so I’m not going to go down that route. Tiger claimed he had been playing with an injury since July 2007, which I’m willing to go with. However, my belief is that PEDs such as testosterone and steroids are exactly what helped Tiger play through the injury, and it is because these were no longer viable options with the new policy in place that there was no choice but to have the surgery and look to heal naturally (at least for the most part).

Supporting this claim (3) is the fact that Tiger’s rapid physical transformation from 2005 or so through 2008 became more apparent from the summer of 2007 onwards (remember the extraordinary physique displayed in the tight red shirt on Sunday at Oakmont?) If he did injure himself in the summer of 2007, it would make sense to up the dosage of PEDs in order to heal quicker and be able to play through the pain barrier. He also strung together probably the greatest stretch of his career during this time, winning 10 out of 13 events between the Bridgestone in August 2007 and the US Open in 2008, with his other finishes comprising of two miserable 2nds and a shocking 5th!)

4. Now I mentioned a little while ago that I felt the recovery from the ACL injury was undertaken in a more natural way than the “supplements” used in the few years prior. This doesn’t mean everything was totally above board, and is where Dr Galea comes in. Before the anti-doping policy was introduced, it would presumably be no problem ordering testosterone and the like from more ‘mainstream’ sources, such as the Biogenesis clinic in Miami (note, Biogenesis is only being used as an example, I don't necessarily trust the validity of this story due to the sketchy source):

//lannyhgolf.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/is-the-pga-hiding-tiger-woods-link-to-biogenesis-and-steroids/

Once the policy came into play, you would have to be more canny. I believe when Tiger was off with this ACL injury, he dropped the testosterone and the steroids as a positive drug test would signal the end of his career, and all the dreams of passing Jack and becoming the best there’s ever been would be forever crushed.

However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and widespread throughout all of sport. Tiger had to retain his edge and athletic advantage over the rest of the field somehow, and it would make sense for this to be the one PED out of the three biggies to remain as part of the regime. Surely an HGH expert such as Dr Galea would be able to administer the hormone in such a way as to make it look natural?

5. When Dr Galea was found guilty, that’s when the last of the cocktail of PEDs had to go. And surprise, surprise, the injuries start to pile up in a way they never had before… the walk-off at The Players, the withdrawal at Doral through a “tight achilles” (from the man who won the US Open on one leg!) Suddenly the man who could play through anything was a lot more fragile. A cynical person might suggest that the weak tendons and ligaments are a classic case of post-PED withdrawal (not me of course!)

So, am I saying that all of Tiger’s success was built on a foundation of lies? Not really. I don’t believe he was juicing earlier in his career, such as in 2000, which is rightly considered to be his finest year of Tour. With or without enhancements he would have been the greatest player in the world, just maybe not by quite such an astonishing distance.

Many people say that steroids, testosterone, HGH etc. would be of little use to a golfer. This is true when looking at individual facets of the game in isolation, such as driving distance, iron play and short game. However, what they forget is that PEDs help with your endurance and therefore allow you to train harder. How can it not be an advantage to have the physical stamina to practice for eight hours a day rather than four? And for that matter, how can it not be an advantage to feel as fresh as a daisy walking down the 72nd hole of a tournament while your opponents are beginning to tire (especially in humid conditions, a la Southern Hills, 2007 PGA).

Recovery time after exertion is also sped up dramatically, so you can be at your best every single week. It’s interesting that as Tiger increased in size and was at his most physically impressive, he was suddenly able to put himself in contention pretty much every single week. Look at the absurd level of consistency from 2006-2009 and compare it to that of 2001-2002, two hugely impressive years but nowhere near as consistent. Post-2009/Dr G, Tiger has began to have many more off-weeks where he doesn’t even come close to winning, which is understandable as physical energy levels wax and wane. This can be explained in 2010 and 2011 through swing changes, personal trauma etc. but not so much from 2012 onwards, where he clearly has the game to play the lights out but can’t do so on a consistent basis. Not being quite as fresh from day-to-day due to lack of enhancements will do that to you.

Another, much under-appreciated benefit of PED’s is the MENTAL well-being they provide. What do steroids, testosterone and HGH all have in common? They make you feel youthful, confident and capable of achieving anything. Take a cocktail of all three and you start to feel bulletproof. If you walk around in a state of euphoria believing you are the man, then you are much more likely to hit that great drive or hole that clutch putt on the 72nd hole under the most intense pressure. Without the added help, these things won’t come quite as easily (notice how the clutch putting has almost evaporated in recent years? Or how about how he often shoots [i]atrocious[/i] scores on the weekend now, as in worst of the top 40 players or so on the leaderboard, when not leading heading into the round but within two or three shots of the pacesetter).

Tiger has always been known as a terrific closer of tournaments. However, it may surprise you to learn that when he was a wiry young man, not pumped full of exogenous testosterone and anabolic steroids, he was much more prone to hitting poor shots under pressure (relating to my ‘confidence’ point above).

2000-2001 is considered by many to be his finest stretch, but think about some of the crazy shots that were hit during the business end of tournaments:

- The drive that was sliced miles right on the 2nd hole of the 2000 PGA playoff against Bob May, which would have resulted in a bogey if for not the tremendous slice of luck afforded on the 2nd shot, in which Tiger’s ball hit the cart path and trundled on over the green into par-saving territory.

- The even worse drive on the 3rd and final playoff hole which would have been unplayable had some kid not thrown in out of the wilderness back down the cart path. This was one of the most fortunate playoff victories of all time.

- 2001 Bay Hill Invitational – 16th hole, final round: Tiger hits it 2 feet from OB. Then hits another disastrous tee shot on the 18th which only avoids going OB as a lone spectator’s head gets in the way!)

- 2001 NEC Invitational – Only requires par on the final hour to beat Furyk, yet somehow manages to miss the green with a pitching wedge from the centre of the fairway and winds up with a bogey. Hits two or three woeful drives in the playoff but is fortunate as each result in playable seconds, and can also thank his lucky stars that Furyk misses a multitude of makeable birdie putts which would have put the tournament to bed. Wins on the 7th extra hole.

- 2001 Dubai Desert Classic – Shocking drive on the final hole, ending in a huge upset as Thomas Bjorn slays the mighty Tiger (who hits his third into the water and makes double).

- In general, Tiger would often bogey the final hole of a tournament when he was in the lead, albeit sometimes when his nearest challenger had to birdie it. This is a trait which has returned post-Galea.

When did this ever happen once Tiger had bulked up? (And in my opinion was on this cocktail of confidence boosters). Think Hank Haney era basically. The only example I can muster is the bogey-bogey finish at the 2005 Masters, but I think Tiger always finds it tough to win the first major after a drought, it wouldn’t be human not to feel nervous, testosterone or no testosterone. Back nine of 1999 PGA and the lost opportunities in recent years are cases in point. Anyway, he became much more proficient at hitting clutch shots from the middle of last decade through almost to the end of it, whereas before then he was more of a clutch putter than a consistently clutch ball striker.

So, given my assertion that Tiger wasn’t juicing during some of the best years of this career, and therefore was clearly the best golfer in the world either way, why would he use anything? My belief is that the pressure of winning majors and passing Jack started to take its toll at some point during the early to mid 2000s (which is alluded to by Hank Haney in ‘The Big Miss’ actually), so external ways of finding supreme confidence and keeping his edge over the competition were required. As I said earlier, if you’re taking testosterone, HGH and steroids, you’ll feel like nothing is out of reach – wouldn’t you love to stand over a 15 foot putt to win a major feeling that way?

This isn’t intended as a windup and certainly isn’t written with the intention of inciting hatred and/or anger. All I want is a reasonable discussion on the matter. I want more than anything in the world to believe that Tiger was a clean athlete (I have no doubt that he is now) so if any of the great members here can convince me then that’s fantastic. I’d like to hear from both ends of the spectrum really, from Tiger fans who believe that the PED accusations are are a load of hot air, and from those who may confess to having doubts on the man’s legacy. Questioning doesn’t make you any less of a fan, it’s only natural to ask questions and to live in a state of blind adoration is very dangerous indeed, as we have found with plenty of other sportsmen in recent years.
[/quote]

If I am Tiger and I am reading this post, I might just be sh*tting cupcakes.

[Sean2]

Speculation doesn't prove anything. It's just that: speculation.

You all can talk about this until the cows come home. It won't change anything. It won't change anyone's mind that is already made up.

However, if you are having fun, please carry on. :-)

[nochct1]

[quote name='TorreyPines' timestamp='1402532959' post='9476891']
[quote name='hazebronso' timestamp='1402521631' post='9475843']
So basically from what I've glimpsed in above article/post it would lead me to believe that Tigers incredible swing speed just suddenly came out of no where. Besides the well documented feats of Tiger Woods throughout his life including his measured swing speed of 120+ as an 18 year old amateur, I would be led to believe that like the baseball player with a career .220 avg that suddenly jumps to .320 while doubling his home run output that Tigers feats of greatness were not displayed well before 2005. Furthermore a change in physique by putting on 40 lbs of muscle over a 10 year span is hardly speculative of any PED use, ie Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Michael Jordan, Kevin Durant (25lbs in 2 years) and literally thousands of other high profile athletes.
[/quote]

Well, I never mentioned Tiger’s swing speed, or insinuated that PEDs might provide him with the ability to hit the ball further, so not really sure what point you’re trying to make here. Much of the concern around PEDs in golf is misplaced – the focus should be on physical advantages they promote such as the ability to practice for longer hours and still feel fresh at the business end of tournaments, as well as the state of mental bliss and absolute confidence that many users of testosterone and HGH report. Whether these hormones, for example, would help you hit the ball further, is debateable, and receives an inordinate amount of focus at the expense of more critical issues.

Also, there are several references in my post to the fact that Tiger was still pretty damn good before 2005, e.g.:

“His brilliance first came to my attention when he massacred the field in the 2000 US Open at Pebble Beach by an eye-watering fifteen strokes”

“So, am I saying that all of Tiger’s success was built on a foundation of lies? Not really. I don’t believe he was juicing earlier in his career, such as in 2000, which is rightly considered to be his finest year of Tour. With or without enhancements he would have been the greatest player in the world, just maybe not by quite such an astonishing distance.”

“Look at the absurd level of consistency from 2006-2009 and compare it to that of 2001-2002, two hugely impressive years but nowhere near as consistent.”

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1402521937' post='9475863']
^ Good post Torrey

One question on this>

[b][color=#282828]"However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and widespread throughout all of sport. Tiger had to retain his edge and athletic advantage over the rest of the field somehow, and it would make sense for this to be the one PED out of the three biggies to remain as part of the regime. Surely an HGH expert such as Dr Galea would be able to administer the hormone in such a way as to make it look natural?[/color]

[color=#282828]5. When Dr Galea was found guilty, that’s when the last of the cocktail of PEDs had to go. "[/color][/b]

[color=#282828]I believe that Galea made a deal with the Feds. Why didn't he say TW was on PEDs? In fact, seems like he went out of his way to say TW was not on PEDs. [/color]
[/quote]

Thank you, I appreciate it. That’s a good question, and probably the most difficult one to answer. My [i]guesses[/i] would be that either (a) he did just administer PRP upon visiting Tiger’s home in February and March 2009, but provided details of licensed practitioners in the US that could prescribe ‘other substances’, (b) not he, but rather one of his associates, such as Mark Lindsay or MaryAnne Catalano, provided Tiger with the PEDs, or, most unlikely by some distance (c) Tiger, quite possibly being a billionaire, paid Anthony Galea an extravagant sum for his treatment, on the grounds of unconditional confidentiality should anything find its way into the public domain regarding possible PED use.

[quote name='golfer' timestamp='1402524274' post='9476067']

You are entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to express your opinion. You are entitled to "state my case".

Your "case" is filled with innuendo and conjecture but does not include an ounce of factual evidence that proves Tiger used "PEDs" or steroids.
[/quote]

[quote name='Tim Meitner' timestamp='1402528263' post='9476443']
Actually...in a situation such as this, about the only factual evidence that could possibly surface is if Woods himself spilled the beans. Practically [b]anything[/b] short of that is as you say, "innuendo and conjecture".

I suppose if Galea and crew came out and said he did, that would be damning. But I suspect that even that still wouldn't be enough proof for his ardent supporters.
[/quote]

Thanks Tim, that’s pretty much the gist of the reply I was going to give you, ‘golfer’.
[/quote]

He was a golf prodigy and dominated at every level he played before tapering off and slowing down in his mid 30s. If he was taking PEDs then he probably would have improved in his later years.

For someone with such a strong opinion and seems to know a lot about golf, I'm surprised he didn't come your radar until 2000. I think you would find that he probably hit the ball longer when he was younger, and practiced more when he was in college and in his 20s.

[golfs453]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1402534298' post='9477061']
Speculation doesn't prove anything. It's just that: speculation.

You all can talk about this until the cows come home. It won't change anything. It won't change anyone's mind that is already made up.

However, if you are having fun, please carry on. :-)
[/quote]

I agree.

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6760484/tiger-woods-use-peds-patient-says-lawyer-anthony-galea-assistant"]http://espn.go.com/g...galea-assistant[/url]

[url="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/sports/os-mike-bianchi-hank-haney-0403-20120402_1_galea-hank-haney-tiger-woods"]http://articles.orla...ney-tiger-woods[/url]

[bscinstnct]

I understand Torreys speculation.

But in the end the facts only point to this,

TW is a great athlete who got injured.

[golfs453]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1402541263' post='9477843']
I understand Torreys speculation.

But in the end the facts only point to this,

TW is a great athlete who got injured.
[/quote]

Exactly. It's perfectly fine to speculate, but when people have come out to say that Tiger did not take PED's, it's hard to dismiss those facts.

[farmer]

Well, Torrey hits this one out of the park. Not a shred of evidence, but well stated.

[CHARGERS]

I liked to know which media source said he even might have used steroids....no one had the balls

[Forged4ever]

A couple of things TP-

First, welcome to the forum, it's great to have you!!

Secondly, the delivery system of ANY PED, regardless of category, has nothing to do with the ability/inability to detect it("However, it is known that HGH can be administered in such a way as to make it extremely difficult to detect, hence why it is so popular and wide spread throughout all of sport")-

That ability/inability is determined by knowing the molecular composition of said PED, so as to be able to design a test to detect it at the molecular level.

So, the delivery system, as I stated before, and this is supported in the medical literature, is irrelevent. You can smoke it, inject it, apply cream or ointment, and it will still go into the body, soft tissue and organs to be metabolized. This is where it is detected, or when it is excreted from the body, if the molecular composition is known to the tester.

Also, since I've gone into it in prior posts, I'm not going to rehash regarding my exposure to PEDs, however I will say that to to equate one's putting, and the competency level there of, with PEDs use is stretching it and not an accurate portrayal of the mental/psychological benefits of PEDs. I am extremely familiar with the mental/psychological benefits of PEDs, and while they definitely do give one a confidence boost, and while this definitely benefitted me on the football field, and I guess that I could see it if you were coming down the back nine this week-end at #2, and possibly if ithey were starting to drag with the course, the heat and the pressure of the moment getting to them, however putting is mental and takes a cerebral mind set, of quiet, controlled confidence, the other end of the spectrum of tearing into a ball on the tee. One can be a fat, out of shape slob, and be a world class putter. It's about visualizing the stroke, the path and the speed of the ball and seeing it drop into the hole prior to you actually sending it there.

I believe that this is a case of people seeing what they want to see. IF Tiger did anything, and bear in mind, his best swing, most dominant victories and I believe him at his best, was when he was 170-175lbs, and he had a "whip" like swing. This was all before the injuries.

And one more thing-

As one who has has two ACL reconstructions, not repairs, due to a total severing of my ACL in my left knee and one Total ACL reconstruction in my right knee, there is no PED on earth, or in any lab on earth, that would allow or affect an athlete to the point of allowing them to "play with" or "play through" the injury. This is a Biomechanical injury and thus, the only way to "fix" it, if it is a total tear as I suffered, and as Tiger suffered, is through surgery. I was amazed that he played that last round in the Open because I could not play one series in a football game. My stability and ability to run, plant and pivot, was shot.

Granted, he didn't have to do that, however we all know how violent a 115+mph swing is, especially his.

Well, again, welcome to the forum and have a great season My Friend

My Best,
Richard

[williamsnrb]

As much respect as Tiger has for the game, I can not believe he has done anything under the table to improve physical performance.

[hogans71]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1402541263' post='9477843']
I understand Torreys speculation.

But in the end the facts only point to this,

TW is a great athlete who got injured.
[/quote]

When I think of tw, the recurring theme is best/second best golfer of all time..

At no point would I consider him a great athlete- what exactly suggests that? Incredibly gifted golfer, certainly a high tolerance for pain, amazing hand/eye coordination, the ability to walk three odd miles of rolling terrain four days straight. All impressive in its own right but not quite worthy of a "great athlete" label...

Edit- and no, I don't believe for one moment he's used ped's...