Jim Venetos golf swing?

[bph7]

Who cares how far you hit it, what's your handicap.

 

Why does that matter? I'm a weekend player who plays maybe 20 rounds a year. I'm telling you that I hit the ball farther, straighter, and my contact is much better using this type of swing than when using the traditional body-rotation type swing. I used to fight a slice and now almost all of my shots are a slight draw and I don't even worry about the right side of the course.

 

I don't keep a handicap but I can say my typical scores have gone down quite a bit since I switched. I am hitting it better, having shorter approach shots, and hitting more greens. My short game is still atrocious, sadly.

 

Anyway my point is that people should not comment on a swing before they've even seen it for themselves, much less tried it. The first comments itt were all about "this looks like a great way to hit a 40-yd duck hook", etc. - which shows a complete ignorance of the swing and the results it produces.

 

I know several people who use a "Venetos" like swing - none of them are particularly good and I take money off them regularly. Your statements about how you play in no way contradict that - better than atrocious is not necessarily good.

You must be awesome!

 

Agree, if you can take money off someone who needs to start their 7 irons over the right side trees to accommodate the massive hook, you must be a player. Do you use x7s?

[Ghost of Snead]

Bumping this thread to chime in that this swing is very similar to Kiran Kanwar's "minimalist golf swing" (MGS)... main difference that I see is more weight kept on the left side with Jim's swing. I am sure there are some other minor differences as well although the core fundamentals seem very similar. In fact I stumbled across this old thread when searching for info on Kiran's MGS swing.

 

I've been using Kiran's swing for a while now and I have to laugh at people who have clearly never tried this type of swing, dismissing it out of hand. I am almost 50yo and drive approx 290 yds using Kiran's swing. Before I switched I averaged about 240-250. My iron compression is night and day, more penetrating flight, better distance. Easier on the back as well. Only problem with this swing is that I find hitting a fade difficult, it is naturally a draw.

 

I think there are a lot of misconceptions especially by better players who have mastered a more traditional swing, that any alternative is some sort of gimmick, or quick-fix for high-handicappers who can't learn the "real" swing. This is simply false and rather condescending imo. If you are happy with your current swing then by all means have at it, but don't dismiss something out of hand that you have have never tried, or even seen in action on a course.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I assume you're following this gal ... love the training device at around 8:15 or so into the vid.

 

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[oikos1]

[northgolf]

Who cares how far you hit it, what's your handicap.

 

Why does that matter? I'm a weekend player who plays maybe 20 rounds a year. I'm telling you that I hit the ball farther, straighter, and my contact is much better using this type of swing than when using the traditional body-rotation type swing. I used to fight a slice and now almost all of my shots are a slight draw and I don't even worry about the right side of the course.

 

I don't keep a handicap but I can say my typical scores have gone down quite a bit since I switched. I am hitting it better, having shorter approach shots, and hitting more greens. My short game is still atrocious, sadly.

 

Anyway my point is that people should not comment on a swing before they've even seen it for themselves, much less tried it. The first comments itt were all about "this looks like a great way to hit a 40-yd duck hook", etc. - which shows a complete ignorance of the swing and the results it produces.

 

I know several people who use a "Venetos" like swing - none of them are particularly good and I take money off them regularly. Your statements about how you play in no way contradict that - better than atrocious is not necessarily good.

You must be awesome!

 

No, I s*ck, just not as bad as they do.

[4thand11]

Bumping this thread to chime in that this swing is very similar to Kiran Kanwar's "minimalist golf swing" (MGS)... main difference that I see is more weight kept on the left side with Jim's swing. I am sure there are some other minor differences as well although the core fundamentals seem very similar. In fact I stumbled across this old thread when searching for info on Kiran's MGS swing.

 

I've been using Kiran's swing for a while now and I have to laugh at people who have clearly never tried this type of swing, dismissing it out of hand. I am almost 50yo and drive approx 290 yds using Kiran's swing. Before I switched I averaged about 240-250. My iron compression is night and day, more penetrating flight, better distance. Easier on the back as well. Only problem with this swing is that I find hitting a fade difficult, it is naturally a draw.

 

I think there are a lot of misconceptions especially by better players who have mastered a more traditional swing, that any alternative is some sort of gimmick, or quick-fix for high-handicappers who can't learn the "real" swing. This is simply false and rather condescending imo. If you are happy with your current swing then by all means have at it, but don't dismiss something out of hand that you have have never tried, or even seen in action on a course.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I assume you're following this gal ... love the training device at around 8:15 or so into the vid.

 

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LOL hey I have that device in my backyard! When I'm done practicing I hang my laundry on it!

 

Anyway say what you want but her swing is quite similar to Venetos and the only thing I care about is that it actually works. Which it does!

 

And in looking back over the posts itt, I see that someone actually mentioned Kiran Kanwar earlier so I am not the only one who saw the resemblance between her teachings and Venetos. But, rather than debate the merits of the swing, Kiran's name was met with a bunch of vaguely racist posts about her ethnicity. Classy.

[oikos1]

Bumping this thread to chime in that this swing is very similar to Kiran Kanwar's "minimalist golf swing" (MGS)... main difference that I see is more weight kept on the left side with Jim's swing. I am sure there are some other minor differences as well although the core fundamentals seem very similar. In fact I stumbled across this old thread when searching for info on Kiran's MGS swing.

 

I've been using Kiran's swing for a while now and I have to laugh at people who have clearly never tried this type of swing, dismissing it out of hand. I am almost 50yo and drive approx 290 yds using Kiran's swing. Before I switched I averaged about 240-250. My iron compression is night and day, more penetrating flight, better distance. Easier on the back as well. Only problem with this swing is that I find hitting a fade difficult, it is naturally a draw.

 

I think there are a lot of misconceptions especially by better players who have mastered a more traditional swing, that any alternative is some sort of gimmick, or quick-fix for high-handicappers who can't learn the "real" swing. This is simply false and rather condescending imo. If you are happy with your current swing then by all means have at it, but don't dismiss something out of hand that you have have never tried, or even seen in action on a course.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I assume you're following this gal ... love the training device at around 8:15 or so into the vid.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

LOL hey I have that device in my backyard! When I'm done practicing I hang my laundry on it!

 

Anyway say what you want but her swing is quite similar to Venetos and the only thing I care about is that it actually works. Which it does!

 

And in looking back over the posts itt, I see that someone actually mentioned Kiran Kanwar earlier so I am not the only one who saw the resemblance between her teachings and Venetos. But, rather than debate the merits of the swing, Kiran's name was met with a bunch of vaguely racist posts about her ethnicity. Classy.

 

The thread is about Venetos. If you give some specific examples of the similarities between Kanwar and Venetos swing methods and why they work, I'm sure you would engage a debate. So far, all of the swings I've seen from both of their students look weak and contrived. Enlighten us!

[4thand11]

The thread is about Venetos. If you give some specific examples of the similarities between Kanwar and Venetos swing methods and why they work, I'm sure you would engage a debate. So far, all of the swings I've seen from both of their students look weak and contrived. Enlighten us!

 

Honestly I'm not sure what I could add. Jim chimed in earlier in the thread with some pretty detailed descriptions. When people asked to see video of his swing he provided it. He answered questions and acknowledged people's skepticism. In response, he was called a snake-oil salesman and basically run off the site.

 

As to Kiran Kanwar's swing there are clearly some differences but the fundamentals are very close to Venetos, the pre-set torso turn, the still body with no rotation until post-contact, arms raising and falling smoothly along the body line, etc. I was not trying to hijack this thread only to mention that I use a swing that is similar to Jim's and have had very good results with it.

[northgolf]

We are pretty much in agreement - the Venetos swing is easy for a mid to high handicapper to master. So far, no scratch golfer has spoken up for it.

[CROTUSman]

Who cares how far you hit it, what's your handicap.

 

Why does that matter? I'm a weekend player who plays maybe 20 rounds a year. I'm telling you that I hit the ball farther, straighter, and my contact is much better using this type of swing than when using the traditional body-rotation type swing. I used to fight a slice and now almost all of my shots are a slight draw and I don't even worry about the right side of the course.

 

I don't keep a handicap but I can say my typical scores have gone down quite a bit since I switched. I am hitting it better, having shorter approach shots, and hitting more greens. My short game is still atrocious, sadly.

 

Anyway my point is that people should not comment on a swing before they've even seen it for themselves, much less tried it. The first comments itt were all about "this looks like a great way to hit a 40-yd duck hook", etc. - which shows a complete ignorance of the swing and the results it produces.

 

I know several people who use a "Venetos" like swing - none of them are particularly good and I take money off them regularly. Your statements about how you play in no way contradict that - better than atrocious is not necessarily good.

 

Congratulations, you are better (***EDIT*** anonymously claim to be better) at golf than some people whom none of us have ever met.

[darpar1]

I've got a simple solution to this debate,have Jim and Monte tee it up together sometime,last I checked they both live in So.Cal....could be wrong on that though! :taunt:

Winner gets bragging rights for a day!

[DuncanM]

Just read this entire thread from the start today.

 

Very interesting swing, not for everyone but I have no doubt that it'd instantly improve some high hc players I know.

 

Jim comes across as a class act, in his posts and videos. Some of the earlier posters should be ashamed of themselves.

[RBImGuy]

 

 

The problem with today's golf instruction is the same thing that was wrong 70 years ago. It does not work for the average weekend warrior/hacker.

This positional hitting method will work for anyone if it's something that is given a bucket of balls a day for a week.

As with any instruction in golf the student has to do it, and do it over and over again. Golfers are most likely the worst students there are in any sport.

They already know everything and can't be taught anything that will stick, but complain every hole that the 'club' let them down.

 

 

CYa

 

There seems to be ample evidence to that yes.

 

 

 

Just stop. Handicaps HAVE gone down steadily over last 20 years. And as equipment has improved courses have gotten more difficult and hundreds of yards longer. Less than 10% of golfers take lessons, and those that do are significantly better as a group than those who don't. Facts go against every point you tried to make.

 

80% of golfers reach 18-36 handicap.

less than 10% reach single and 1% scratch.

that average algoritm seems to hold up.

checking the local clubs that is true and I cant say people becomes better with lessons or such either as they play worse with them.

so they stop and keep on doing what they did, thats also a fact.

 

golf education simply put isnt really working out.

 

 

 

I've been using Kiran's swing for a while now and I have to laugh at people who have clearly never tried this type of swing, dismissing it out of hand. I am almost 50yo and drive approx 290 yds using Kiran's swing. Before I switched I averaged about 240-250. My iron compression is night and day, more penetrating flight, better distance. Easier on the back as well. Only problem with this swing is that I find hitting a fade difficult, it is naturally a draw.

 

I think there are a lot of misconceptions especially by better players who have mastered a more traditional swing, that any alternative is some sort of gimmick, or quick-fix for high-handicappers who can't learn the "real" swing. This is simply false and rather condescending imo. If you are happy with your current swing then by all means have at it, but don't dismiss something out of hand that you have have never tried, or even seen in action on a course.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

a 50 yard increase and people dont like it?

 

Usually a golfer is young when they learn a golf swing.

when your reaching 30 or more and then start golf we are seeing a trend of not much improvment if any.

Main issue is weight shift/transfer cordination.

Venetos swing helps to remove that so you can swing and have a good impact.

Less timing needed, less cordination needed, and then when you mastered that you may then try out more weight shift cordination moves.

 

both Venetos and Kirans swings are mechanically sound.

There is a lot of prejudice in golf due to misconceptions about what a proper swing consists off.

Moe Norman hit the ball better than anyone here so if your not doing what Moe did, your swing is bad.

real easy argument to pull off when people talk, perfect swings and they cant do what Moe did.

[danehupp]

Does anyone know where Venetos is. I recently joined his site but am not getting any answers to questions etc..... I am a 7 handicap and although the swing mechanics seem funny, they do produce a nice tight draw when you get it down. I have never been able to consistently hit a draw before. I was just looking for more consistency and something I could practice and focus on without all of the movement that gets me in trouble. Thanks to anyone who may have an answer.

[blues72]

Does anyone know where Venetos is. I recently joined his site but am not getting any answers to questions etc..... I am a 7 handicap and although the swing mechanics seem funny, they do produce a nice tight draw when you get it down. I have never been able to consistently hit a draw before. I was just looking for more consistency and something I could practice and focus on without all of the movement that gets me in trouble. Thanks to anyone who may have an answer.

 

Jim lives in Maine during the spring/summer/fall as weather permits and lives in Southern California during the winter months.

 

Hope this is helpful

Mike

[danehupp]

Does anyone know where Venetos is. I recently joined his site but am not getting any answers to questions etc..... I am a 7 handicap and although the swing mechanics seem funny, they do produce a nice tight draw when you get it down. I have never been able to consistently hit a draw before. I was just looking for more consistency and something I could practice and focus on without all of the movement that gets me in trouble. Thanks to anyone who may have an answer.

 

Jim lives in Maine during the spring/summer/fall as weather permits and lives in Southern California during the winter months.

 

Hope this is helpful

Mike

Thanks. Was hoping someone new if the academy was still up and running beyond having a website. Thanks.

[beckk10]

bump

[nlk10010]

Just out of curiosity, did you bump this thread because you're exploring Venetos' approach or was there another reason?

 

BTW, I'm looking at it as well (anything that can result in my weight being on the lead side at impact is worth a study). I know Venetos can be abrasive but I'm not going to dismiss his method out-of-hand just for that reason. In my limited experience the swing seems to transfer fairly well from range to course (the quality of the swing itself being another matter).

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

oh that video in post #442 is the absolute best. good times. well worth this thread getting bumped.

[garyt]

We are pretty much in agreement - the Venetos swing is easy for a mid to high handicapper to master. So far, no scratch golfer has spoken up for it.

 

But who cares? No pro uses it either, so what? What if all it can do is get a guy who currently scores in the 100's into the 90's? That would be a great thing for that guy and everybody who plays behind him. Not everybody is looking to be scratch. He got killed on here unfairly, imo.

[nlk10010]

We are pretty much in agreement - the Venetos swing is easy for a mid to high handicapper to master. So far, no scratch golfer has spoken up for it.

 

But who cares? No pro uses it either, so what? What if all it can do is get a guy who currently scores in the 100's into the 90's? That would be a great thing for that guy and everybody who plays behind him. Not everybody is looking to be scratch. He got killed on here unfairly, imo.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your main comment. If it can be the difference between someone playing golf and not playing golf (or rather puttering around on a 9-hole) then Venetos is doing many a service with his swing. However, while it's true that some killed him to make themselves feel better (we've got a real swing, not that old-man pretend thingie) Venetos can be quite abrasive and insulted some who wanted to engage in a real conversation (I seem to recall Monte was taken aback at some of his comments).

[garyt]

We are pretty much in agreement - the Venetos swing is easy for a mid to high handicapper to master. So far, no scratch golfer has spoken up for it.

 

But who cares? No pro uses it either, so what? What if all it can do is get a guy who currently scores in the 100's into the 90's? That would be a great thing for that guy and everybody who plays behind him. Not everybody is looking to be scratch. He got killed on here unfairly, imo.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your main comment. If it can be the difference between someone playing golf and not playing golf (or rather puttering around on a 9-hole) then Venetos is doing many a service with his swing. However, while it's true that some killed him to make themselves feel better (we've got a real swing, not that old-man pretend thingie) Venetos can be quite abrasive and insulted some who wanted to engage in a real conversation (I seem to recall Monte was taken aback at some of his comments).

 

I thought he was quite friendly till attacked, but that's just me. Monte jumped on his "snake oil salesman" comment but he certainly didn't call all instructors "snake oil salesman". I think everyone here would agree there are some Snake oil salesman in golf, and some would probably include Venetos.

[Hilts1969]

We are pretty much in agreement - the Venetos swing is easy for a mid to high handicapper to master. So far, no scratch golfer has spoken up for it.

 

But who cares? No pro uses it either, so what? What if all it can do is get a guy who currently scores in the 100's into the 90's? That would be a great thing for that guy and everybody who plays behind him. Not everybody is looking to be scratch. He got killed on here unfairly, imo.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your main comment. If it can be the difference between someone playing golf and not playing golf (or rather puttering around on a 9-hole) then Venetos is doing many a service with his swing. However, while it's true that some killed him to make themselves feel better (we've got a real swing, not that old-man pretend thingie) Venetos can be quite abrasive and insulted some who wanted to engage in a real conversation (I seem to recall Monte was taken aback at some of his comments).

 

I thought he was quite friendly till attacked, but that's just me. Monte jumped on his "snake oil salesman" comment but he certainly didn't call all instructors "snake oil salesman". I think everyone here would agree there are some Snake oil salesman in golf, and some would probably include Venetos.

 

A lot of the posters giving it large have been banned which is quite telling. I think a lot of golfers could get benefits from presetting parts of their swing.

[nlk10010]

-snip-

I thought he was quite friendly till attacked, but that's just me. Monte jumped on his "snake oil salesman" comment but he certainly didn't call all instructors "snake oil salesman". I think everyone here would agree there are some Snake oil salesman in golf, and some would probably include Venetos.

 

That's fair. I based my comments on Venetos on my viewing of his YouTube videos, his responses to posted questions (or lack thereof) and on an admittedly cursory reading of this thread. When I saw Monte's comment (and from what I can judge Monte is a reasonable guy so I took him at his word) it sort of jibed with my observation that Venetos seemed a bit confrontational on some of his videos as he would act as if everyone else was wrong and he was right (I'm sure an exaggeration on my part). He also was very frugal with his replies to comments, which is his right of course as he has to make a living and wants to give incentives to golfers to join his Academy.

 

Face it, teachers like David Leadbetter and Jim Hardy come in for ridicule on this board as well, they're too well-known, rich and successful or they're not a member of the "club" (no pun intended). So being raked over the coals here really doesn't mean anything. All I care about is if a swing works for me and I'm in the process of checking that out now. My feeling is that if it does I will be lacking in distance as compared to someone with a more conventional swing, perhaps there will be little to no ability to "control" the ball either. However, if the Venetos swing enables me to go out and play 18 holes once in a while without making a fool of myself then, at my age at least, it's something to consider. OTOH, it may prove to be (at least relative to me) snake oil.

 

Regardless, there ARE two sides to every story.

[flatnstuck]

It always struck me as a method for the recreational golfer and the rather large group of bogey plus handicaps who get moist seeing a ball draw or anything back up on a green. Nothing wrong with that, and I would stick it in my arsenal of drills/feels for folks who can’t seem to come from the inside or who have a runaway lower half on the downswing.

 

As a full time method I’d have to be a remarkably desperate man to give it a full go.

[FourTops]

I would call that the "Batman fight sequence camera angle swing".

[beckk10]

Just out of curiosity, did you bump this thread because you're exploring Venetos' approach or was there another reason?

 

BTW, I'm looking at it as well (anything that can result in my weight being on the lead side at impact is worth a study). I know Venetos can be abrasive but I'm not going to dismiss his method out-of-hand just for that reason. In my limited experience the swing seems to transfer fairly well from range to course (the quality of the swing itself being another matter).

 

i am working with a student who has recently spent 2 months working on this Jim Venetos swing. Was told the longest club he could use with this swing was 5 Hybrid!!

 

We have a good laugh about it now.

[beckk10]

oh that video in post #442 is the absolute best. good times. well worth this thread getting bumped.

 

Agreed!! absolute gold in here. especially the long replies from JV talking around every single question.

[BigEx44]

Just out of curiosity, did you bump this thread because you're exploring Venetos' approach or was there another reason?

 

BTW, I'm looking at it as well (anything that can result in my weight being on the lead side at impact is worth a study). I know Venetos can be abrasive but I'm not going to dismiss his method out-of-hand just for that reason. In my limited experience the swing seems to transfer fairly well from range to course (the quality of the swing itself being another matter).

 

i am working with a student who has recently spent 2 months working on this Jim Venetos swing. Was told the longest club he could use with this swing was 5 Hybrid!!

 

We have a good laugh about it now.

 

I gave the Venetos swing a dedicated try for 4 months last year (I love to experiment with golf ideas/swings).

Played some decent golf with it too (although I ultimately found I enjoyed having more movement in my swing).

Spent a lot of time in communication with Jim - both by email and with video's.

NEVER once did he make any comment about being limited to certain clubs with his swing.

He did emphasize while learning his swing - to not go to the longer clubs until the shorter ones were mastered.

So I think your student misunderstood what Jim was saying - and why he was saying it.

[BigEx44]

It always struck me as a method for the recreational golfer and the rather large group of bogey plus handicaps who get moist seeing a ball draw or anything back up on a green. Nothing wrong with that, and I would stick it in my arsenal of drills/feels for folks who can't seem to come from the inside or who have a runaway lower half on the downswing.

 

As a full time method I'd have to be a remarkably desperate man to give it a full go.

 

Jim did have one student who played on the Nationwide Tour a few years - Chris Baingo.

I still see Chris' name pop up occasionally on top amateur tourney's.

Here's a Jim Venetos analysis of Chris' swing (from back in 2014):

http://www.powerchalk.com/video/102708_Z04C-CZ68-1NHM-3FWZ-CHLK/play

[nlk10010]

It really is a trade-off: Venetos' approach IMO limits the ability to turn and generate additional power but that very limitation also makes it easier to strike the ball properly (proper clubface position and shaft lean at impact). I would guess that the vast majority of players are not willing to sacrifice turn and movement so shun the pre-set (Venetos) swing. Unfortunately I need help in both areas so I have to weigh the advantages of easier ball striking against the disadvantage of restricted movement; since my main limitation is an arthritic back I might need to lean towards something like the "Easiest Swing" of Brian Sparks. His approach emphasizes easier rotation.

 

I don't know how it will pan out, but it's an interesting journey.