Jim Venetos golf swing?

[BigEx44]

It really is a trade-off: Venetos' approach IMO limits the ability to turn and generate additional power but that very limitation also makes it easier to strike the ball properly (proper clubface position and shaft lean at impact). I would guess that the vast majority of players are not willing to sacrifice turn and movement so shun the pre-set (Venetos) swing. Unfortunately I need help in both areas so I have to weigh the advantages of easier ball striking against the disadvantage of restricted movement; since my main limitation is an arthritic back I might need to lean towards something like the "Easiest Swing" of Brian Sparks. His approach emphasizes easier rotation.

 

I don't know how it will pan out, but it's an interesting journey.

 

Funny...but Brian Sparks swing is actually what I went to after I left my Jim Venetos experiment --> and I've been playing the best golf of my life over the last two summers.

[nlk10010]

Not to stray too far off-topic, but how long did it take for you to "get" Sparks' swing? I have tried it on several occasions and just can't seem to relax enough as I approach impact. It LOOKS so "right" on YT, you say to yourself "I can do that, ought to be simple", but my instinct is to hit at the ball and instead of letting body rotation drive the swing I use my arms, which destroys it; e.g. early release, fat shots.

 

I am glad to hear of your success, though, gives me hope and I'm honestly happy for people who have succeeded at this game.

[BigEx44]

Not to stray too far off-topic, but how long did it take for you to "get" Sparks' swing? I have tried it on several occasions and just can't seem to relax enough as I approach impact. It LOOKS so "right" on YT, you say to yourself "I can do that, ought to be simple", but my instinct is to hit at the ball and instead of letting body rotation drive the swing I use my arms, which destroys it; e.g. early release, fat shots.

 

I am glad to hear of your success, though, gives me hope and I'm honestly happy for people who have succeeded at this game.

 

Take a 7 iron and see if you can take a full swing and hit the ball a short distance with only 50% effort.

Once you can master that, amp it up a bit and see what happens.

I personally got to a relaxed swing by taking a lot of relaxed practice swings without a ball.

At the range, I would do his "la danse" drill before actually hitting the ball.

It eventually gets you there (I got there within a few weeks) although you'll always be fighting the urge to want to "hit" the ball.

Good luck!

[gkmashie]

How do you hit a fade with that motion?

 

Left handed

What close minded beotian. It works!!

[SirFuego]

How do you hit a fade with that motion?

 

Left handed

What close minded beotian. It works!!

 

Seriously, though. Ball flight laws apply to any golf swing, regardless of how unconventional it is. The face just needs to be open relative to the clubpath, so you can theoretically hit a draw or fade with any club path. So why couldn't one just grip the club with an open face and aim left?

[David69]

I stumbled into Jim V's swing videos on YT somehow and gave it a try. Turns out that I was about halfway there (using a similar setup) with my irons already and just needed to use a few of his basic concepts (stillness - majority of weight over left foot - closed stance - shut off right arm- preset the contact point) and I saw a major improvement over my dispersion and basically shut off the right side push slice. I am able to dial in the draw with less effort in the swing and have about the same distances in all clubs. It is a somewhat radical idea - but for me, it shut down the slice with the driver completely. I was a fader of the driver and hit the occasional slice. Was working on hitting a draw (which seemed impossible for me to do) and that is how I stumbled into his videos. All I can say is that it seems to be working for me - though I will readily admit that learning to shut off the desire to hit and shut off the right side is unnatural and takes time and practice. I like the feeling of HITTING and CRUSHING the ball - especially with the long irons (4-3) and driver. That is a recipe for disaster with this (and probably most) swings. This swing might not be for everyone and it certainly takes practice to learn how to be still and quiet that right side. Nearly all of the flaws/mistakes are easily correctable with this method though - because there are really only 2 things that it can be once you get the setup - which is the super easy part to get. Either you are not still through the swing (left side weight anchoring issue) - or you are trying to hit and bringing your right side into the motion causing a hook. Quite literally - that is it. And your ball flight tells you which one it was. Simple.

 

A couple of things that I think are missing - probably by design - is the obvious lack of driver only videos and specifics. I think it is because he doesn't want people to just concentrate on the driver - you really do have to start this method from the wedges up to get the benefits IMHO. Driver distance is the same for me with this swing with better dispersion. Learning to shut down the stock impulse is extremely hard for me - but that is the requirement and it does work. I can still hit a fade on command by just setting up left and doing the same exact swing - or just doing my old swing. No one said you had to do this swing on every single shot. Old stuff that worked yesterday will still work - it's just that this JV swing has increased my playability 10 fold.

 

It would be nice if he had more driver vids - sure and long iron vids too - but I get why he doe not - because if he did that is all anyone would look at - and that is the wrong approach to this method. It works when you learn it from the short - mid clubs. But you do have to LEARN it. Time and patience - things that some people do not possess.

 

It is radical - it is different - and it clearly not for everyone. But the way he has been treated here after reading through this thread by some of the now banned members is atrocious. If you are having a hard time with a slice - give it a try. It shut down the entire right side of the golf course for me - which was unheard of and an impossible task just a short few weeks ago.

[nlk10010]

My impression was that Venetos did himself no favors with his attitude on these boards.

 

The above said, I don't find his approach to be that radically different from more mainstream teachings, at least as regarding presetting an impact position. This is advocated in one form or another by Graves, Junge, even some TGM instructors, either as a part of the actual swing or as a practice aid. Playing from in front of the ball to facilitate ball first contact is also a cornerstone of many approaches (e.g. Martin Chuck, Bobby Clampett). Of course no one advocates ALL of Venetos but I don't really see the issue, I've spoken to people who have benefited from combining his swing with some others.

[David69]

The attacks seemed disproportionate when reading through the long thread from the beginning -- and these are the ones that are still in the thread - many posts have been eliminated by mods - but I agree that he could have been less defensive up front and posted swing vids etc... Very easy to see how to correct in hindsight and these threads are a few years old so it is silly to harp on it.

 

As one who came to the game later in life (2015 for me), I can attest to the difficulty of learning all the aspects in order to play a decent round. I am not a student of the history of the golf swing as many here are - so I do what I can to shoot mid 80's and have been chasing that elusive controllable draw from the beginning. The JV swing is working for me, and I am appreciative. I think it is worth a try for anyone who has trouble with the slice or who wants to groove a controllable draw. His website is also very helpful and worth the $30 to check out - you can do a free week and cancel if you don't like it at zero cost.

 

1. He should post vids of uphill lie and downhill lies.

 

2. Ball placement with longer clubs is crucial. I wish he addressed this more and specifically with 4 irons and 3 irons.

 

3. I don't see why there is not more attention to the driver - you literally have to search all over on the website to find a video. There are no good vids actually. He just doesn't focus on it as other teachers do. This is clearly by design (the omission of driver specific videos) but it is somewhat frustrating since we all want to hit the driver well. Hitting driver well sets up the entire round for people like me. It is quite literally why I go out to play -- and wait in line at stupid par 3's.

[NoFancyUsername.]

On the 9th of September 2014 when this thread was started, if DeChambeau showed WRX what he was up to and tried to explain it, well, the internet warriors here would have had a field day with him, whipped and a crown of thorns pushed onto his head.

This Jim guy politely explained his method, and the morons as usual opened their mouths through the keyboards.

I don't use his method, but i do have the intellect to understand that it does work for the weekend golfer who will never acquire the "conventional swing".

Now, where's my coffee.

[BigEx44]

On the 9th of September 2014 when this thread was started, if DeChambeau showed WRX what he was up to and tried to explain it, well, the internet warriors here would have had a field day with him, whipped and a crown of thorns pushed onto his head.

This Jim guy politely explained his method, and the morons as usual opened their mouths through the keyboards.

I don't use his method, but i do have the intellect to understand that it does work for the weekend golfer who will never acquire the "conventional swing".

Now, where's my coffee.

 

I dedicated myself to Jim's swing for about 4 months last year and at times played some pretty decent golf with it. So I do believe it can help some people. Plus, Jim is a great guy and his golf academy is a really good deal: last year it was $300 for a lifetime membership which included unlimited video analysis at no additional cost.

 

I ultimately quit the swing when I realized I'm more comfortable with a more upright/vertical swing (not so far inside as Jim advocates) and that I play better with a little motion and rhythm to my swing. But I still enjoy practicing his swing and do see the logic in it. Who knows, someday I may go back....

[Kevinnz]

If you want to say that your way is an easier way for some people to do it, I won't argue...however, using buzz words to claim it's more powerful doesn't fly.

 

There's a reason nearly every guy who has done well in long driving has lateral movement off the ball and shifts into the rear leg.

 

Haha i was going to say that the 9 iron in the video did less than my single hand swing of a pitching wedge

[oikos1]

The attacks seemed disproportionate when reading through the long thread from the beginning -- and these are the ones that are still in the thread - many posts have been eliminated by mods - but I agree that he could have been less defensive up front and posted swing vids etc... Very easy to see how to correct in hindsight and these threads are a few years old so it is silly to harp on it.

 

As one who came to the game later in life (2015 for me), I can attest to the difficulty of learning all the aspects in order to play a decent round. I am not a student of the history of the golf swing as many here are - so I do what I can to shoot mid 80's and have been chasing that elusive controllable draw from the beginning. The JV swing is working for me, and I am appreciative. I think it is worth a try for anyone who has trouble with the slice or who wants to groove a controllable draw. His website is also very helpful and worth the $30 to check out - you can do a free week and cancel if you don't like it at zero cost.

 

1. He should post vids of uphill lie and downhill lies.

 

2. Ball placement with longer clubs is crucial. I wish he addressed this more and specifically with 4 irons and 3 irons.

 

3. I don't see why there is not more attention to the driver - you literally have to search all over on the website to find a video. There are no good vids actually. He just doesn't focus on it as other teachers do. This is clearly by design (the omission of driver specific videos) but it is somewhat frustrating since we all want to hit the driver well. Hitting driver well sets up the entire round for people like me. It is quite literally why I go out to play -- and wait in line at stupid par 3's.

If you are getting better driver dispersion, why do you need "driver" videos. Lack of emphasis on driver videos might lead one to think Venetos method is not conducive to driver.

[David69]

You need driver videos to have something to watch when you are not on the course/range and want to see a setup with the long clubs. Even though it (setup) doesn't really change - it feels like it does because of the length of the club. So confidence off the course I guess? Reinforcing position with imagery? Giving a clear visual? All of that. But when you do it right - at least for me - it seems to work great. And I agree with your assertion - which is why lack of driver videos is an issue that I mentioned. Even if he puts them up there to show how similar it all is to the other shorter clubs - which it is. It is easier to stay still with the shorter clubs.

[kcowgolf]

Probably good for less flexible folks or beginners who can't shift well. Not going to be a long drive champ with it for sure.

[Lagavulin62]

This looks like a drill. I can see it for trying to teach a concept but not as a complete swing.

[BigEx44]

This looks like a drill. I can see it for trying to teach a concept but not as a complete swing.

 

It HAS worked as a complete swing for Jim's students who have embraced his philosophy.

[4thand11]

Update to this thread. Tried Jim's method today on the course. I had messed around with it on the range a while back but decided to try it for the whole round today.

 

The swing works. Felt smoother and more powerful. Tight draw on most shots. Overcooked a few but still in play, no massive hooks. Felt comfortable to me. Playing partners even commented on my ballstriking and distance.

 

For the record I'm a 14hc and have struggled with the standard swing for the 8 years I've been playing. So I may be less naturally talented/athletic than the wrxers who are scratch or nearly-so. And Jim's swing might not be for everyone. But for a typical golfer of my level (and most recreational golfers ARE at my level or worse with the traditional swing), it can absolutely present a less complicated and more consistent way to hit the golf ball, and make the game more fun and enjoyable.

 

The obnoxious responses to Jim's sincere attempts to discuss his swing give this forum a bad name. I saw some attempts to justify it by saying Jim was the one being "rude". I read the entire thread and believe me there was a lot of rudeness, but it wasn't coming from Jim. He was remarkably restrained in his responses considering the mockery and condescension from people who have never tried his swing and have no intention of ever trying it. One poster early on actually did try it... and had primarily positive things to say about it. But of course his legit feedback was ignored.

 

All IMO of course. I'd recommend anyone struggling with consistency in their ballstriking to watch his YouTube vids and give it a try. If it doesn't work for you personally, no harm done.

[FourTops]

Please go shoot yourself. I watched it without the sound so I didn't even hear the jokes or sarcasm. A minute plus that I can't unsee.

 

LOL! Looks like the Leaning Tower of Pisa golf swing! Please...is it possible to un-see? It's called stack-and-tilt until you tilt over.

[MarlinFisher45]

Update to this thread. Tried Jim's method today on the course. I had messed around with it on the range a while back but decided to try it for the whole round today.

 

The swing works. Felt smoother and more powerful. Tight draw on most shots. Overcooked a few but still in play, no massive hooks. Felt comfortable to me. Playing partners even commented on my ballstriking and distance.

 

For the record I'm a 14hc and have struggled with the standard swing for the 8 years I've been playing. So I may be less naturally talented/athletic than the wrxers who are scratch or nearly-so. And Jim's swing might not be for everyone. But for a typical golfer of my level (and most recreational golfers ARE at my level or worse with the traditional swing), it can absolutely present a less complicated and more consistent way to hit the golf ball, and make the game more fun and enjoyable.

 

The obnoxious responses to Jim's sincere attempts to discuss his swing give this forum a bad name. I saw some attempts to justify it by saying Jim was the one being "rude". I read the entire thread and believe me there was a lot of rudeness, but it wasn't coming from Jim. He was remarkably restrained in his responses considering the mockery and condescension from people who have never tried his swing and have no intention of ever trying it. One poster early on actually did try it... and had primarily positive things to say about it. But of course his legit feedback was ignored.

 

All IMO of course. I'd recommend anyone struggling with consistency in their ballstriking to watch his YouTube vids and give it a try. If it doesn't work for you personally, no harm done.

 

I just read through this thread (not really sure why but it was funny) and fwiw I totally disagree about Jim. He seemed very defensive and combative for no reason. Sure some guys were having fun at his expense but I don’t think the reaction was proportionate. If that’s the swing he teaches, one would think he’d be used to getting mocked by now.

[FourTops]

Y'all gotta move to the next-level which is meta-awareness learning. Jim Waldron has posted tons of great info. The old-style stuff is just that...old. Antiquated.

[ALIF]

Baby draws all day long while being meta-aware.

[playa]

The attacks seemed disproportionate when reading through the long thread from the beginning -- and these are the ones that are still in the thread - many posts have been eliminated by mods - but I agree that he could have been less defensive up front and posted swing vids etc... Very easy to see how to correct in hindsight and these threads are a few years old so it is silly to harp on it.

 

As one who came to the game later in life (2015 for me), I can attest to the difficulty of learning all the aspects in order to play a decent round. I am not a student of the history of the golf swing as many here are - so I do what I can to shoot mid 80's and have been chasing that elusive controllable draw from the beginning. The JV swing is working for me, and I am appreciative. I think it is worth a try for anyone who has trouble with the slice or who wants to groove a controllable draw. His website is also very helpful and worth the $30 to check out - you can do a free week and cancel if you don't like it at zero cost.

 

1. He should post vids of uphill lie and downhill lies.

 

2. Ball placement with longer clubs is crucial. I wish he addressed this more and specifically with 4 irons and 3 irons.

 

3. I don't see why there is not more attention to the driver - you literally have to search all over on the website to find a video. There are no good vids actually. He just doesn't focus on it as other teachers do. This is clearly by design (the omission of driver specific videos) but it is somewhat frustrating since we all want to hit the driver well. Hitting driver well sets up the entire round for people like me. It is quite literally why I go out to play -- and wait in line at stupid par 3's.

I think the reason for lack of driver vids is because with his system the driver swing is exactly the same swing, just with a more forward ball position. I have seen him talk about driver and he advocates the same swing as the irons, coming from the inside on a shallow path. He does not advocate hitting up on driver cause he thinks having a different swing for driver over complicates things, and he has a point.

I've just stumbled on it and haven't given it a go yet, but he seems to present a clear argument for his methods and is consistent and non contradictory, which is a welcome change from some you tube swing doctors. From watching and listening to him I am impressed. I would guess that with his method there may be a slight drop in maximum distances from other swings, but consistency of strike and average distances may improve for those who don't have time to hit a thousand balls a week.

I reallly like the idea of closing the shoulders to shallow the swing path and hit from the inside, and will keep at least that set up thought next time I play.

I think some of his critics on here don't realise that average Joes don't have the time or patience to groove complicated swings, and are more interested in finding a simple swing that works than spending hours on the range searching for Hogan's 'secret'.

[playa]

Played today using the lean into left side, closed shoulders stance. Best iron ball striking day in recent memory. By keeping my weight left I got in a perfect impact position every swing. And by knowing that the bottom of the swing would be the same every shot. I didn't have to think about what my arms and hands were doing during the swing, it was automatic.

Downside was a bit of direction issues, but surprisingly I was missing slightly right, not left. The ball flight was high and long, with plenty of bite on the scoring irons. I didn't leave one shot short all day, every strike was solid, ball then ground contact with a nice shallow divot just past the ball.

I was surprised at how easy it was to set up. Not sure if I did it exactly right, but I just set up normally, then leaned left into a very comfortable position. From there it was almost like auto pilot, as long as I kept my weight left it was just a feeling of letting the club go back and through without thinking.

Can't comment for everyone, but from my results this swing is the real deal. I shot under my handicap from the plates and didn't have a great driving day, but I wasn't using the new swing for the driver as it didn't quite feel comfortable.

I will definitely be using this swing for the foreseeable future, I'm excited about where this iron play will take my game.

[Tanner25]

Played today using the lean into left side, closed shoulders stance. Best iron ball striking day in recent memory. By keeping my weight left I got in a perfect impact position every swing. And by knowing that the bottom of the swing would be the same every shot. I didn't have to think about what my arms and hands were doing during the swing, it was automatic.

Downside was a bit of direction issues, but surprisingly I was missing slightly right, not left. The ball flight was high and long, with plenty of bite on the scoring irons. I didn't leave one shot short all day, every strike was solid, ball then ground contact with a nice shallow divot just past the ball.

I was surprised at how easy it was to set up. Not sure if I did it exactly right, but I just set up normally, then leaned left into a very comfortable position. From there it was almost like auto pilot, as long as I kept my weight left it was just a feeling of letting the club go back and through without thinking.

Can't comment for everyone, but from my results this swing is the real deal. I shot under my handicap from the plates and didn't have a great driving day, but I wasn't using the new swing for the driver as it didn't quite feel comfortable.

I will definitely be using this swing for the foreseeable future, I'm excited about where this iron play will take my game.

 

That's interesting. I always thought there should be a best of swing. Meaning go with what works with the irons and then go with the swing method that works with the driver. Although, sometimes the two swings gets blended and you end up with some weird shots.

[playa]

Played today using the lean into left side, closed shoulders stance. Best iron ball striking day in recent memory. By keeping my weight left I got in a perfect impact position every swing. And by knowing that the bottom of the swing would be the same every shot. I didn't have to think about what my arms and hands were doing during the swing, it was automatic.

Downside was a bit of direction issues, but surprisingly I was missing slightly right, not left. The ball flight was high and long, with plenty of bite on the scoring irons. I didn't leave one shot short all day, every strike was solid, ball then ground contact with a nice shallow divot just past the ball.

I was surprised at how easy it was to set up. Not sure if I did it exactly right, but I just set up normally, then leaned left into a very comfortable position. From there it was almost like auto pilot, as long as I kept my weight left it was just a feeling of letting the club go back and through without thinking.

Can't comment for everyone, but from my results this swing is the real deal. I shot under my handicap from the plates and didn't have a great driving day, but I wasn't using the new swing for the driver as it didn't quite feel comfortable.

I will definitely be using this swing for the foreseeable future, I'm excited about where this iron play will take my game.

 

That's interesting. I always thought there should be a best of swing. Meaning go with what works with the irons and then go with the swing method that works with the driver. Although, sometimes the two swings gets blended and you end up with some weird shots.

I tend to agree. The Venetos swing felt natural and comfortable with the irons, but I couldn't bring myself to do it with driver. Maybe it's cause my driver swing and set up has always been so different to the irons and it will take time to adjust? I'm playing again Tuesday, I might try the Venetos swing on a couple holes where there isn't too much trouble, but I have a leaning to two different swings at this stage.

[MonteScheinblum]

Played today using the lean into left side, closed shoulders stance. Best iron ball striking day in recent memory. By keeping my weight left I got in a perfect impact position every swing. And by knowing that the bottom of the swing would be the same every shot. I didn't have to think about what my arms and hands were doing during the swing, it was automatic.

Downside was a bit of direction issues, but surprisingly I was missing slightly right, not left. The ball flight was high and long, with plenty of bite on the scoring irons. I didn't leave one shot short all day, every strike was solid, ball then ground contact with a nice shallow divot just past the ball.

I was surprised at how easy it was to set up. Not sure if I did it exactly right, but I just set up normally, then leaned left into a very comfortable position. From there it was almost like auto pilot, as long as I kept my weight left it was just a feeling of letting the club go back and through without thinking.

Can't comment for everyone, but from my results this swing is the real deal. I shot under my handicap from the plates and didn't have a great driving day, but I wasn't using the new swing for the driver as it didn't quite feel comfortable.

I will definitely be using this swing for the foreseeable future, I'm excited about where this iron play will take my game.

 

That's interesting. I always thought there should be a best of swing. Meaning go with what works with the irons and then go with the swing method that works with the driver. Although, sometimes the two swings gets blended and you end up with some weird shots.

 

This is why ams don’t get better. It’s hard enough to get competent and consistent with one swing.

[David69]

In order for me to get the driver to draw using this swing I have to really start the hands turning over right at the top or else I find I am holding the face open. It is a very aggressive move for me - but that is probably because of a flaw with me being so right side dominant as an ex-hockey player. I think this is Monte's "No Turn Cast Drill" that I really have to work with and concentrate on turning over and starting the release at a much earlier spot in the downswing in order to get the draw with the driver.

 

There are a lot of really good swing teachers out there and JV's is just one of them.

[sjt4718]

This swing looks goofy which is why most wouldn't bother with it. But the results don't lie.

[RCHeli]

At the end of the day it's a golf swing. You need to understand it, and then practice the crap out of it. Not trying to bash, you just need to be realistic in your goals. I wish I could do the Jim V swing and immediately get better. No such luck. When you're using a arm/hand based swing you better be good with timing. My missed shots were awful. If you watch any of the videos, you will see the is very fast club face closure rate. That's why Jim can make this swing look easy. If you could control the club face as well as he does, i thing you'd be good at any swing.

[Chazb]

I have never tried his swing and just found this thread.But one thing I have done for years was to keep my weight on my left side hitting irons and it has worked very well,when I deviated and did not keep my weight on the left side with the irons my game suffered.

I may have to give his system a try.