Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[Kingcat990]

Hope you feel better catch

[Nard_S]

Sorry to hear of your fortune NCN, those Ping's are indeed sinister, copping Miura's BB magic with those tiny heads was bad enough, but giving blade guys hernias too takes it to another level.Hope you heal soon enough.

[wmblake2000]

> @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> Got some catching up to do with this thread. Still, I've plenty of time, because I won't be playing golf again for while. Got a hernia in the lower back. Did it at the end of June at a demo day at the local range. I blame the Ping Blueprints, because I think that's what I was hitting when I did it. So don't let anyone tell you the Blueprints are all unicorns and bunny jam. Under that satin veneer, they're actually vicious beasts that are out to harm you.

 

Yikes. Sorry to hear that, hope you heal quickly. I saw Blueprints for first time the other day. They did look beastly to me, now that I think about it.

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Thanks everyone. I'm slowly on the mend, but I won't be rushing back into golf. Taking it very slow as this is not my first time with back problems.

Glad to be out of hospital. I'm pretty tall for Japan, and the hospital beds weren't designed for people like me. I think I had about 1 inch of leeway at the head and my feet constantly pressed into the bar at the foot.

Food wasn't bad, and I managed to lose about 14 pounds, which is a good start to a hernia recovery.

[NRJyzr]

I hope you recover quickly, Catchy

[Bigmean]

That sucks, and it is easy to say take it slow now, but when you can actually swing ok is the hard part.

 

Also, FWIW, everyone here should have known that ping blades would have deep seeded evil in them. I am not shocked in the least.

 

In memory of NCNs injury, which was clearly

caused by this abomination of a clubhead made by manufacturer that has spewed hate at such a design since inception, I promise to never hit them, ever. Yes it will be difficult as my desire to hit these was already at next to nothing, but I will be strong for NCN and not endorse this product.....

 

Get well soon brother! I know how it is, I got your back!!!!!(see what I did there?)

[Nard_S]

Well said BM, my sentiment when I saw the BP's was Ben Hogan has been vindicated. Back in the day, when Karsten was crapping all over traditional design, Hogan was very vocaL about their innate benefits. Took a generation but Ping conceded. They done good on these new clubs but Hogan was right all along and when he made CB's his were pretty damn good. Still wish I played those back then because when on my honeymoon I rented a set and they blew by my Eye 2's and DCI's away. I really don't think much of Hogan's swing. His play, sense of intuitive feel and shot making were off the charts though. His sense of design was right up there with those.

[revanant]

I get that the Japanese beds had a smaller head size, but how soft did they feel at impact, and did they have a copper underlay? : )

 

Clearly, I'm thinking expensive thoughts about the new MP-20s. I didn't care for the MP-18s, and I don't have a need to try the MP-5s, but I've never gotten a chance to hit the MP-14s. If the new MP-20s feel softer and have a lower CG than my MP-4s, plus exhibit a return to a thinner/smaller aethetic, I may be very tempted down the road.

 

I also think it's really enlightening and crazy that Mizuno just straight up cancelled the MP-18 SC, because in their experience, there was no performance difference between the MP-18 SC and MB and the difference was simply aesthetic. It really throws a wrench into machinery for the idea that perimeter weighting necessarily translates into forgiveness on mishits. See below:

 

"It’s with differentiation in mind that the company decided to scrap the SC. While cosmetically SC was appreciably different than the MP-18 (MB), performance differences were nearly non-existent. The forgiveness of the SC was only marginally better than the MP-18, and there wasn’t much in the way of ball flight difference either. The differences were mostly cosmetic, and that’s not enough reason for Mizuno to update the iron.

 

Removing the SC from the lineup allows Mizuno to create more separation – in terms of both forgiveness and trajectory – between the new models, which in-turn provides golfers even greater opportunity to build a combo set in which every iron in the set does what the golfer needs it to."

 

Source: https://Not allowed because of spam.com/mizuno-mp-20-iron-review/

 

If Mizuno doesn't think there's a performance difference between the SC and the MB to justify offering the SC, then it seems to me that's a point in favor of the idea that making choices on incremental forgiveness improvement is just flat out wrong. I also feel really bad for anyone who preferred the MP 18 MB but chose the MP 18 SC in the name of forgiveness.

 

Instead of buying irons with an eye to cover up mistakes, what Mizuno seems to be saying is that forgiveness is overrated--buy the irons that broadly fit the spin and flight you want on a normal strike, within the feel and aesthetics that suit your eye. Next, live with the fact that golf is hard and that if you screw up your strike, you've made a mistake that will have ramifications.

 

You can stick perimeter weighting in the toe of your irons, but if you hit a shot off the toe, there's no tech in the world that will protect you--you've put yourself at a disadvantage and you've probably hit your ball poorly and into a less-than-ideal spot. If you're playing the HMB or the MMC, it's because when you make a good strike, you get a ball flight that is consistent with the other irons in the set--i.e., a 5 iron that flies with enough spin and speed to fill the gap between your MB 6 iron and your 4H, etc.

 

By the same token, the only real solution to mishits and mistakes is to work on your ballstriking to minimize future toe strikes, and to that end, less forgiving irons that tell you when you're screwing up are a valuable tool.

 

 

[Bigmean]

Mizuno makes some really good GI clubs, and has a well balanced lineup. I don’t think that is what they are saying, I think Mizuno is just the only big brand that truly makes stuff with logic instilled and creating an offering that is neither redundant, nor uneccessarily cluttered with advertising to pick up slack in moving clubs that don’t create a niche for themselves and cant be easily

figured out by the consumer. Mizuno is just the best large OEM out there, like they are truly the closest thing to some boutique maker could be on the scale they are on.

[Nard_S]

The new MP 20 looks dandy fine to me.

[Kingcat990]

Its rare to see an OEM stretch out and triple plate their irons. It's a difficult and hazardous process. But it's good to see Mizuno go back to their fundamentals of what made them famous. Curious to see the MP20's up close.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @revanant said:

> I get that the Japanese beds had a smaller head size, but how soft did they feel at impact, and did they have a copper underlay? : )

>

The bed definitely lacked that buttery soft feeling I'm used to :(

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @Bigmean said:

> That sucks, and it is easy to say take it slow now, but when you can actually swing ok is the hard part.

>

> Also, FWIW, everyone here should have known that ping blades would have deep seeded evil in them. I am not shocked in the least.

>

> In memory of NCNs injury, which was clearly

> caused by this abomination of a clubhead made by manufacturer that has spewed hate at such a design since inception, I promise to never hit them, ever. Yes it will be difficult as my desire to hit these was already at next to nothing, but I will be strong for NCN and not endorse this product.....

>

> Get well soon brother! I know how it is, I got your back!!!!!(see what I did there?)

 

Crikey, I hoped I haven't sparked a Blueprint pile-on! I only hit the 7i, and while I thought was good looking club with a pleasant soft feel, I wasn't impressed by the price. Also, if you're trying to sell irons that are around $300 ~ $350 each, then bring along more than just a 7i for people to try.

[Golfjack]

> @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> Thanks everyone. I'm slowly on the mend, but I won't be rushing back into golf. Taking it very slow as this is not my first time with back problems.

> Glad to be out of hospital. I'm pretty tall for Japan, and the hospital beds weren't designed for people like me. I think I had about 1 inch of leeway at the head and my feet constantly pressed into the bar at the foot.

> Food wasn't bad, and I managed to lose about 14 pounds, which is a good start to a hernia recovery.

 

Clearly NCN, that was your punishment for not playing JDM clubs when you actually live in Japan. Although looking at your bag you haven't let that stop you before. It's Mr. Miura shooting spasm darts in your back.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @Golfjack said:

> > @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> > Thanks everyone. I'm slowly on the mend, but I won't be rushing back into golf. Taking it very slow as this is not my first time with back problems.

> > Glad to be out of hospital. I'm pretty tall for Japan, and the hospital beds weren't designed for people like me. I think I had about 1 inch of leeway at the head and my feet constantly pressed into the bar at the foot.

> > Food wasn't bad, and I managed to lose about 14 pounds, which is a good start to a hernia recovery.

>

> Clearly NCN, that was your punishment for not playing JDM clubs when you actually live in Japan. Although looking at your bag you haven't let that stop you before. It's Mr. Miura shooting spasm darts in your back.

 

Heh, I know, right. Even though I live here, I don't have a massive JDM thing. I think part of the reason is when I started playing USDM (if that's the right word) was the thing to have, although Japanese manufacturers were certainly starting to make their mark in the golf market. I do have bits of JDM in there, but not as much as I could/should have. I do have a nice set of Baldo MBs that need to see the course, and I cannot tell you how many JDM wedges I've tried and let go off.

Actually, I've got a bit of thing for JDM persimmon. I've some lovely Honma fairways, and beautiful Mizuno driver. Still seeking a proper replacement to the shallow-faced Mizuno persimmon driver I had as a junior in the late Eighties. That club was a belter.

[Bigmean]

I always thought the beds were more like mat on the floor? I would imagine that the JDM beds have Better turf interaction than oversized western beds...

[revanant]

> @Bigmean said:

> I always thought the beds were more like mat on the floor? I would imagine that the JDM beds have Better turf interaction than oversized western beds...

It's probably due to the thinner sole and very low bounce. Love the minimal topline on those beds, though.

 

Just not a lot of forgiveness, but I suppose that's to be expected.

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

The JDM bed specs were obviously more precise. Interestingly, they had adjustable lofts. Mine went from flat to about 80*, though with a lower back hernia a glued, flat bed would have been fine.

[Nard_S]

Perhaps they could have injected some more Astro-Goo in the mattress to make it more forgiving.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

> @Nard_S said:

> Perhaps they could have injected some more Astro-Goo in the mattress to make it more forgiving.

 

Funny you mention that. When I raised the topic of injecting "Astro Goo" with a couple of the nurses, the police arrived shortly afterwards.

I'm sure it was a language barrier thing.

[Nard_S]

The point of pricing is spot on. Them and the P7 are in the stratosphere for no particular, solid reason. I hit the 7i & wedge, they're nice but not $2K nice.They don't rock the ball 10 yards further and the GOAT spec offering from other OEM is not really not that at all.

[NRJyzr]

Quick comment or two on the impending MP-20....

Really not liking their loft progressions. 3* gaps from 3i thru 6i is a bit much. I'd have to bend these in some manner to space that out a bit.

 

And, not a fan of the whole copper myth. Copper is harder than nickel. Richard/Forged4ever has posted about his conversations with Mizuno engineers, following the TN-87s; they just laughed at the thought the copper had anything to do with the feel. It was apparently applied as a mist. As for why they didn't refute it, they were just riding the hype train. Why should they say something that would undermine that? LOL

 

In any event, it's not like anyone would believe the reality. After all, in spite of all the refutations and evidence otherwise, guys still want to believe the modern stronger lofts are due to "lowering CGs to increase trajectory, requiring them to reduce loft." /rolleyes

 

OK, soapbox post over. LOL

[Bigmean]

 

> @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > Perhaps they could have injected some more Astro-Goo in the mattress to make it more forgiving.

>

> Funny you mention that. When I raised the topic of injecting "Astro Goo" with a couple of the nurses, the police arrived shortly afterwards.

> I'm sure it was a language barrier thing.

 

So I am standing at my cnc Machine reading the forums cause duh, looking at phone is how you are supposed to work in 2019, and I just started laughing out loud, literally, and one of my guys just looked over at me like WTF.... awesomely played....

 

NCN is crushing the wit since laid up, the golden toilet and what is “obnoxious” not overlooked in Bentley thread. Love the humor tangents.....

 

 

[Bigmean]

I buy what NR and Richard are selling on that with the plating. Maybe there are plating combos that alter sound enough to make a small difference, and there are certainly quality platings and crappy ones and all in between. Miura nickel finishes simply look better, the copper I had professionally done looked the part, and I think bright chrome has a mental association with being more clicky. I think better platings just wear better and look better. Seems stupid to say, but it is finish work, you know a good plating when you see it. You can just tell if a finish looks cheap or well done. Feel, meh....I think raw is only

Thing that could be debatable on that front.

 

You all know that I am a big feel guy, I know I can tell feels in head and shaft combos well and remember them when hitting others, but I do think the plating is really not playing a factor much or at all detectable. Yeah my mp14s felt softer after I stripped them, but I am objective enough to even wonder how much of that was placebo effect perception. My Vegas, those really were something soft raw. I feel like I could argue either side of stripping them, but how much of what we do gear wise is based on achievement of positive perceptions, and with that I am not sure I see much harm in thinking one way or another. There is a physical difference and I am sure a measurable vibration alteration, but to what degree of realistic human physical perception?

 

My .02

 

[revanant]

Oddly enough, Mizuno actually agrees. This is from the my golf spy article:

 

" extensive blind testing of two otherwise identical irons conducted with PGA Tour Professionals (both Mizuno staff and non-staff players), the overwhelming majority said the iron with the copper underlay felt softer.

 

The ripple for Mizuno is that there’s nothing it can point to explain why copper makes an iron feel softer. There are slight but noticeable sound differences at impact, but those differences appear to wash out when analyzing harmonic signatures. The analysis tools Mizuno has at its disposal say one thing. The best golfers in the world say otherwise.

 

“It’s frustrating,” says Mizuno’s Chris Voshall. “We don’t have anything to point to. We’re not happy with the answer.” While the evidence is, for now, circumstantial (Voshall says Mizuno is going to keep digging), the company is intent on owning feel in the iron space, and so, based on Tour Pro feedback, it decided to move forward with a copper underlay in its MP-20 lineup."

 

So basically, Mizuno doesn't know why its pros think the copper underlay feels softer. :D

[Nard_S]

Copper is softer than forged iron or chrome, nickel is softer still but more resilient. Triple plate is better than double in my book, raw or black coated irons do not really appeal to me, I still like shiny but brushed is preferred. Sound is feel and vice versa. The resonant frequency will get slightly altered, to some not at all. Dowels work, but few seek to use them too. I'm somewhat tuned in to the feel thing because of my days as a musician but frankly it rates near bottom on why I play a club.

[mahonie]

> @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> Got some catching up to do with this thread. Still, I've plenty of time, because I won't be playing golf again for while. Got a hernia in the lower back. Did it at the end of June at a demo day at the local range. I blame the Ping Blueprints, because I think that's what I was hitting when I did it. So don't let anyone tell you the Blueprints are all unicorns and bunny jam. Under that satin veneer, they're actually vicious beasts that are out to harm you.

 

Sorry to hear that NCN...hope the recovery is smooth and quick (the exact opposite of my swing in fact!).

 

Just had 6 weeks on the sidelines myself with Achilles tendinitis and I didn’t really realise how much of an escape from the daily grind that golf is until I couldn’t play. Having said that I might take another 6 weeks off as I didn’t play any worse first round back (34 pts with 2 blobs!)!!

 

Take it easy and make sure your recovery is total before swinging again ?

 

[Kingcat990]

Plating changes the sound. High torque shaft changes a clubs feel exponentially. That's what I have found throughout the years. Whether it be a polished 17-4SS, or a S20CS. Those high torque shafts take the confidence right out of a swing IMO. To each their own.

 

In regards to dowels, I did a set a little while ago with a soft durometer teflon dowel. Felt the same as a regular old wooden dowel.

[Golfjack]

> @No_Catchy_Nickname said:

> The JDM bed specs were obviously more precise. Interestingly, they had adjustable lofts. Mine went from flat to about 80*, though with a lower back hernia a glued, flat bed would have been fine.

 

See that's where you went wrong. You needed the adjustable lie angle beds (not loft), so that you can accommodate for a more upright stance when getting off the bed. Or maybe one fitted with a self cleaning bidet, with massage and warm water no less.

I'm so confused with the plating stuff, haven't just earlier seen a Mizuno guy saying copper plating doesn't matter LOL, and then MP-20's are copper plated for softness! Uh... Sigh sometimes I think marketing is just what it is. Let's keep throwing out the same thing but prettier with new (or old if we are out of ideas) irrelevant features.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Had to take a step back as well. Busy life already with two daughters under three and then the oldest comes home with - hand, foot and mouth disease and passes it on to dad. So laid up all last week with a nice rash on my hands, feet and in my bloody mouth (daughter was, luckily, symptom free). Felt like a leper. Still can't swim, so I have a free afternoon to see everyone else sharing their ailments.

 

As for copper... I have to say, it's in two of the past irons that I've used and they are incredible feeling clubs. It's really hard to know, because we are in no position to judge two identical irons with one having the copper layer and the other not. Unless, you want to get the MP118 and 18 together... Those will be the only two identical irons with different finishes.