Member-guest: 32 handicap a sandbagger or legit?

[pbr2121]

I was lucky enough to play in a member-guest with my father recently in which the winner of the five-team flight goes on to a playoff. We halved a few matches and rallied on the last day only to find out that one of the teams we tied beat us by a point and won the flight. The one dude on that team was down as a 30+ handicap and he dropped a 41 on us. Supposedly he had been taking lessons.... I didn't complain as I was the guest and am not sure I would have anyway. I try to believe in the best in people but we both took this one hard. Can a 30 shoot 41 consistently????

[Ping4Lyfe]

That sucks man. It doesn't matter if he is taking lessons, there is no way he could shoot a 41 in a tournament with a legit handicap above 30. At least you know that you played well and would've won if he wasn't a cheater.

[Poser]

sounds like you got sandbagged

[BParis]

Nope, nada, nyet... etc.

[apprenti23]

Yes- just because you lost doesn't mean the winners cheated.

[DixieMafia]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1435107334' post='11822552']
Yes- just because you lost doesn't mean the winners cheated.
[/quote]


They cheated

[bcflyguy1]

That guy better never go outside in a thunderstorm again, because he's more likely to get hit by lightning than perform the way he did (assuming his GHIN was legit, which it wasn't of course). Absolutely no way, period.

You got bagged and sorry to hear it, but thanks for the reminder of why I don't bother playing any net events. Never ceases to amaze me how little value people place on their integrity. They'll sell it off for the smallest of things.

[North Texas]

[quote name='pbr2121' timestamp='1435105728' post='11822392']
I was lucky enough to play in a member-guest with my father recently in which the winner of the five-team flight goes on to a playoff. We halved a few matches and rallied on the last day only to find out that one of the teams we tied beat us by a point and won the flight. The one dude on that team was down as a 30+ handicap and he dropped a 41 on us. Supposedly he had been taking lessons.... I didn't complain as I was the guest and am not sure I would have anyway. I try to believe in the best in people but we both took this one hard. [b]Can a 30 shoot 41 consistently????[/b]
[/quote]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, if he is a legit 30, not only can he NOT shoot 41 consistently, he cannot shoot 41 ever! I'll wait for someone to tell me I'm wrong but I won't believe you.

[Fade to Black]

A 30 handicap gives you 15 handicap for 9 holes (which I assume we're talking about). You have a 25% chance of shooting your handicap, so he had a 25% chance of shooting a 51 (par of 36 for 9 holes +15 shots). Not only did he shoot his handicap, he blew it up by 10 shots. Ie, a 30 handicapper shot +5 for 9 holes.

I think you boys get hit upside the head with a pillowcase filled with doorknobs by Mr. Sandbag.

[pbr2121]

Thanks for the perspective and moral support. At the party afterwards no one would talk to the bagger and the member was mortified. Being a martyr is all well and good but I would much prefer to have made the playoffs!!

[apprenti23]

[quote name='DixieMafia' timestamp='1435107904' post='11822622']
[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1435107334' post='11822552']
Yes- just because you lost doesn't mean the winners cheated.
[/quote]
They cheated
[/quote]

Spoken from a true sore loser!

[LeftDaddy]

A handicap is meant to reflect a golfer's potential, so as has been said before...shooting your handicap isn't easy. I guess it is possible that the 30+ had just taken some lessons and played well above his head, BUT I highly doubt it. You probably got sandbagged.

[Illest]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1435107334' post='11822552']
Yes- just because you lost doesn't mean the winners cheated.
[/quote]

yeaaaa.....nope. No way dude is a 32 handicap shooting a 41.

[xxio]

I have a regular playing partner who has been in a 4 month slump. He was a 17, now a 20. We played 9 holes 4 days ago. He shot 37, 1 over for 9 holes. that is 9 under for 9. He We played 9 holes again yesterday. 42, 6 over for 9 holes. He is not a sandbagger but has definitely caught lightning in a bottle. He did say that he is NOT playing in our monthly medal this weekend because he doesn't want to get the catcalls if he shoots something like 80 and wins his class by a mile.

In our member-guest we do put a cap on how well a guest can score. We cap it at 5 under handicap per round, it is a 2 round event. We leave the true sandbagging to the members

[Edaw68]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1435110378' post='11822960']
[quote name='DixieMafia' timestamp='1435107904' post='11822622']
[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1435107334' post='11822552']
Yes- just because you lost doesn't mean the winners cheated.
[/quote]
They cheated
[/quote]

Spoken from a true sore loser!
[/quote]
I hope this is sarcasm. Because if you are serious, you are an idiot.

OP got bagged. A legit 30 isn't sniffing 41 ever.

[apprenti23]

There's a reason golf is played over 18 holes and not 9. How many times have you improved or worsened by double digit strokes???

[dam276]

According to the USGA's probability table, a 30 handicap has about a 1 in 874 chance of beating their handicap by 10 shots. It's not 0%, but it is 0.12%. In other words, you got 1 in 874 unlucky...which makes you more likely to:

- get run over in a crosswalk (1 in 701)
-be born with an extra finger or toe (1 in 500)

But the good news is that him beating his handicap by that much are still better than you getting a hole in 1 (1 in 12,500).

In case you're interested:
http://www.nagmensclub.com/files/229_USGA_Probability_Score_Table_2-23-09.pdf

[Illest]

[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1435112088' post='11823170']
I have a regular playing partner who has been in a 4 month slump. He was a 17, now a 20. We played 9 holes 4 days ago. He shot 37, 1 over for 9 holes. that is 9 under for 9. He We played 9 holes again yesterday. 42, 6 over for 9 holes. He is not a sandbagger but has definitely caught lightning in a bottle. He did say that he is NOT playing in our monthly medal this weekend because he doesn't want to get the catcalls if he shoots something like 80 and wins his class by a mile.

In our member-guest we do put a cap on how well a guest can score. We cap it at 5 under handicap per round, it is a 2 round event. We leave the true sandbagging to the members
[/quote]

There is no way someone "slumping" is dropping to a 32 handicap and then out of the blue shooting a 41.

[xxio]

Not justifying his specific situation.

Just saying I have seen something similar happen lately. In fact I noticed a swing change and my friend told me not to tell him about what I noticed, he will ride this streak out. Then it starts to go haywire he will ask me about what he changed and how to get it back.

He did make 3 18-20 footers during the 37 and putted "normally" during the 42.

[North Texas]

The one piece of missing information in all of this is what the course rating was for the course the 30 handicapper was playing. Without that we really don't know how much under his handicap this [s]character[/s] guy shot. It might not be as bad as we thought but it also could be worse than we thought.

[CAT GOLFER]

I have shot 39 when I had what was a 26 handicap( league had 9 hole handicap). I drained 100+ ft of putts on 5 greens. That being said, I did this 2nd round into the season 3/5 of the way through lessons, on a course I have played for 10 yrs. and we play from forward tees, point being I had huge advantages, knowledge of the course, confidence, and got lucky that day.

Nothing is impossible, but are you saying he shot 41 every round? Or just in the playoff? Case in point, that 39 is my lowest score over the last 3 seasons in that league, I am now below 10 and haven't sniffed a 40 in a while. Either the dude lives for the pressure to perform or he was a ringer.

[Justmuckit]

Damn, I'm a 13 and I don't shoot 41 very often.

[Guia]

It would be very, very hard for a 30+ to shoot 41. It would be impossible for him to do it consistently.

As I say every time someone posts about playing in a 4 or 5 man best ball/select shot, I quit playing those years ago. Too many loaded teams and too many sandbaggers for an honest tournament. In the past I played in a number of these and I could pick the top 3 teams 90% the time. The other teams are there just to provide them with money. Unless you are one of those 3 teams go to donate and just have fun.

[Reasonability]

About all it takes is to produce a handicap card. And "no" most informal tourneys don't require that. But its a way of making such things cleaner.

Is it "possible"? Well a hole in one is possible. Tiger Woods tanking is possible. Its possible that you got bagged. Its possible that had your team made one or two more putts - the bagger (assuming he bagged) would still have lost.

Can't tell you how many outings I've been on over the years where 22 under won... as groups with far better caps finished behind. Golf happens... lots of things are possible. Those with integrity know they have integrity and their trophies are earned honestly.

[Black'N'Gold]

This is why net tournament are dumb. I love playing in tournaments, but refuse to give some guy 5 strokes in 9 holes when I can't break 40. I also don't want your strokes, at least not for tournament purposes, when it comes to side bets, I'll take whatever you will give me.

[rbilramz]

SAND-bagged. I've seen people shoot WAY under their handicap. Hell as a 10 I shot 2-under through 9 holes last weekend (don't ask about the final score, I matched my HC). But that's too far for a 32 to fall, I just don't see it

[slaveofthegov]

[quote name='dam276' timestamp='1435112626' post='11823246']
According to the USGA's probability table, a 30 handicap has about a 1 in 874 chance of beating their handicap by 10 shots. It's not 0%, but it is 0.12%. In other words, you got 1 in 874 unlucky...
[/quote]

Interesting stats breakdown here...but it is obvious that the opponent had been working on Leadbetter's A Swing before the tournament, and that is how he was able to shoot lights out. I am definitely going out and buying that book now.

[mosesgolf]

IMO SANDBAGGER. Total BS

[burks21]

Sandbagged to the max.

[Hathstauwk]

As someone earlier already said: can he shoot a 41 for 9 holes? Possibly (though unlikely). If he does it consistently, his handicap would not be 30+ (the calculation would fix that right quick).

I was called a sandbagger in my flight of my club championship 13 years ago. I had been an 8 index, took lessons wherein my pro completely rebuilt my swing, stance, ball placement, bunker shots, putting stance/stroke. Needless to say, my index rose to 10.4 or something like that as I tried to stay committed to my swing despite results being not so great. After 4 months of lessons and playing practicing regularly (I was not working during that period), my swing finally "clicked" 2 weeks before the club championship. Since GHIN sets the handicap officially once per month, my handicap had not started adjusting to the better scores I was having in those two weeks before the tournament started.

Come tourney time, my the swing that had "clicked", I was playing like a 6/7 index. It was a 72 hole tourney and I was tied with another guy with 4 holes to play before he made a few mistakes and I held on to win by 2, if I recall.

After the 1st two rounds, people were calling me a sandbagger but I had a legit reason for playing so well. However, that was me as a 10 playing to a 6. That is wayyyyyy different than a 30+ playing to a 10 or whatever.