Member-guest: 32 handicap a sandbagger or legit?

[cbbaron]

[quote name='Justmuckit' timestamp='1435113949' post='11823400']
Damn, I'm a 13 and I don't shoot 41 very often.
[/quote]You stole my thunder was thinking the same

[Mlight9]

Sounds like you got pencil whipped to me.

[siebo]

Played a member guest at Wildhorse country club in Gothenburg, NE last year. I was the guest and played really well both days of the tournament. Sitting in 2nd place after first day played lights out day 2. Come into the clubhouse me and my partner thinking no way we didn't win the whole thing. Guy that beat us was around a 25 handicap and shot even par on the front 9. He was a member at wildhorse so his hcp was based off his league play there. Grouped 2 teams to a hole so cheating wasn't a possibility. So this guy shooting a 41 is not likely but not entirely impossible.

[jusme]

I say its not impossible, but it sounds dodgy to me. I play once a week with a 28 cap and for the last several months he has struggled to reach 30 points (stableford). Mostly scoring around low 20's. Played a very decent course last week - longer than what we normally play, and him being a short hitter (in his 70's) I imagined he would struggle even more. He had 42 points - his best ever score. I am certain he will return to his 20-30 points range again the next time we play. He simply had a blinder....a one off.

[vtnerf]

[quote name='pbr2121' timestamp='1435369236' post='11842410']Well that's a fitting end to an otherwise positive, vibrant thread. We were each assigned 20 handicaps for the event for the record and lost by a point. And as I said before we clearly played like it. Regardless I appreciate the perspectives and information.[/quote]
You say assigned. Is that your handicap? Or is that simply what you were given for the tournament? And explain the comment "we clearly played like it." You mentioned something before about it was supposed to be fun, but oh well... so it wasn't because you lost? And you still never responded with what he shot when you guys tied their team.

You do realize that just because you have the lower handicap number doesn't mean that you automatically win. That's why they play the game.

[Quasimoto]

[quote name='siebo' timestamp='1435380493' post='11843186']
Played a member guest at Wildhorse country club in Gothenburg, NE last year. I was the guest and played really well both days of the tournament. Sitting in 2nd place after first day played lights out day 2. Come into the clubhouse me and my partner thinking no way we didn't win the whole thing. Guy that beat us was around a 25 handicap and shot even par on the front 9. He was a member at wildhorse so his hcp was based off his league play there. Grouped 2 teams to a hole so cheating wasn't a possibility. So this guy shooting a 41 is not likely but not entirely impossible.
[/quote]

It is always mathematically possible. I was a 24 hdcp 20 years ago and shot a 37 while playing a league night. One of the people in our group was the 10 time club champ and district AM champ. I did not want to beat the ball around with this person.

I have never duplicated that level for level any other time.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

That's a net 26. I did that many years ago and I've seen it more recently a couple times by 2 different guy's in my league. They are definitely not sandbaggers. Once in a while someone will catch lightning in a bottle.

Unless the guy played exceptionally for his other rounds I don't see as an issue. What is sad is that you said he was snubbed by people at the banquet.

[Quasimoto]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1435462703' post='11847854']
That's a net 26. I did that many years ago and I've seen it more recently a couple times by 2 different guy's in my league. They are definitely not sandbaggers. Once in a while someone will catch lightning in a bottle.

Unless the guy played exceptionally for his other rounds I don't see as an issue. What is sad is that you said he was snubbed by people at the banquet.
[/quote]

Yes, it is. Fortunately for me I was my home club and everyone knew me and my scoring. I had lots of people come up to me laughing and shaking my hand asking what happened?

[ScratchNot]

I shot 37 on the front nine once when I could barely break 95. I think it would be very dodgy for him to shoot 82 in 18 holes vs. carding a 41 on 9 holes with a 30 hcp.

He probably sandbagged but 41 over 9 holes is not hard for me to believe for a 30 hcp.

[Chunked]

My guess is the guy doesn't have an official handicap. Probably doesn't play too regularly. So, the member put him down for 30+ because the guy never breaks 100. Most likely he never plays legit, so they don't know what his real score would be.

I don't see a legit 30 handicap shooting a 9 hole 41. I do see several guys who aren't good at golf and rarely play by the rules, who could get serious and shoot 41 in a rare circumstance. Doubt those guys have official handicaps and it's more likely they shoot 100 than it is they break 90.

The main problem I see is that the handicap wasn't likely legit. I try not to assume someone was sandbagging but posting a guess instead of a legit handicap is cheating.

[jpking17]

If there are handicaps there is sandbagging...in a 9 hole golf league we played a team as an 8 HCP that is now a 1 HCP...we gave them 7 strokes and they drilled us.

[9ccat9]

Yes the odds are completely against that score for that player. I would look at how he shot 41, fairways and greens? Or did he make a ton of bombs on the greens, chip in, have balls rattle around trees and come out? 20 plus cappers hit really bad shots, 30 plus hit awful shots. Have to see the swing and how they get around in order to make a solid judgement.

That all being said, it does not look good going that low.

[jerebear21]

I played with a 30+ hc last weekend as a nice gesture. I wanted to shout myself.

*shoot

[X_UsaF]

A few years ago I shot 41 then 61 back to back on the same 9.
Sure I played great on the front when I shot the 41 but then I blew up in shop 61 so it is possible to shoot Way under your average.

[bajadulce]

Isn't there a joke that goes something like this:
Man, I can't believe this guy is a (insert handicap). I had to shoot 73 gross just to beat him by one!

[bsawhney]

I think it is possible. From my own experience, I remember shooting 39 on a front nine when I was around a 30 handicap.

After that 39, it took me another 2 years to shoot another pair of 39's this year, so I would say it is possible.

Also, please take a look at this story

http://www.ncga.org/2015/06/25/what-are-the-odds/
[i]The story of how a seven-handicapper set a course record 12-under 60 at Fortuna’s Redwood Empire Golf Course in Humboldt County[/i]

[rizzoaus]

FWIW I played today and shot 96 and I'm a 36 handicapper so would have finished on 60 (taking handicap into account). I'm not a sangbagger and regularly average 110 at this course. I've had lessons and been working hard on the range. It can happen. But then again, I also like to think the best of people.

[Under2hours]

I've seldom shot 41 on a 9 and my cap is 11.9. I felt guilty on men's night shooting a 38 (two three jacks too) and having 2 out of the three birdies in my flight and inning the skins and overall (16 participating).....

I play with a 25 and he hasn't sniffed a 41 in 4 years.....

What wasn't posted was the scores on the other nines this 32 played....

[landolakes]

What did the guy shoot in the other rounds?.. It could be legit.. If I was the member I would have thrown things-- I hope he enjoyed the club while he was a member

[King_Slender]

I'd say probably a sand bagger, but definitely possible to shoot 41 on 9 holes. The 32 handicap is for 18 holes, right? So figure he's a 50 shooter for 9 holes and, depending on what his downfall is, it's possible. Not that it's a 41, but we have a guy in our league who's scores this year were 65, 60, 62, 57, 59, 55 and he shot a legit 48 last week. Now I think it's much tougher to go from 50 to 41 than it is from 59 to 48, but it's not out of the question.

[Sooner7x]

[quote name='dam276' timestamp='1435112626' post='11823246']
According to the USGA's probability table, a 30 handicap has about a 1 in 874 chance of beating their handicap by 10 shots. It's not 0%, but it is 0.12%. In other words, you got 1 in 874 unlucky...which makes you more likely to:

- get run over in a crosswalk (1 in 701)
-be born with an extra finger or toe (1 in 500)

But the good news is that him beating his handicap by that much are still better than you getting a hole in 1 (1 in 12,500).

In case you're interested:
[url="http://www.nagmensclub.com/files/229_USGA_Probability_Score_Table_2-23-09.pdf"]http://www.nagmenscl...ble_2-23-09.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

This is an 18 hole chart and the score is for 9 holes. Its more Likely to shoot an abnormal score for 9 holes than 18.

Of course the bigger issue is he was "on pace" to beat his handicap by 20 (assuming course rating of 72 and slope of 113), and there is a reason beating your handicap by 20 is not even on the chart, even doing this for 9 holes is "off the charts" much more than 874-1 against.

[Golfer from MO]

[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1435112088' post='11823170']
I have a regular playing partner who has been in a 4 month slump. He was a 17, now a 20. We played 9 holes 4 days ago. He shot 37, 1 over for 9 holes. that is 9 under for 9. He We played 9 holes again yesterday. 42, 6 over for 9 holes. He is not a sandbagger but has definitely caught lightning in a bottle. He did say that he is NOT playing in our monthly medal this weekend because he doesn't want to get the catcalls if he shoots something like 80 and wins his class by a mile.

In our member-guest we do put a cap on how well a guest can score. We cap it at 5 under handicap per round, it is a 2 round event. We leave the true sandbagging to the members
[/quote]

Fantastic post and idea.
Your buddy tho has history of being a better player....you really are only a 32 once so you dont know how to go low yet hence the 41 being donkey dung.....
Too many new variables to shoot 41 from 'lessons' as opposed to doing it on the course...

Golfer from MO(TM)

[bullunion3]

Everyone had their real good days. Consistency is what matters

[cardoustie]

the 7 shooting 60 is incredible, thanks for sharing

I've watched a +3 shoot a 61 and a 62 ... but a 7 dropping a 60 !!! WOW !

We had a scratch shoot 60 in an interclub event last year. His avg score is about 73, and he missed a 5 foot putt on one hole

[mcshooter]

My school has a alumni golf each year to support the school golf team ,, I have not played for years, back then it was 250 dollars to play and they wanted a certified handicap.. but they had so many players they were going to use a system that worked out a handicap after you played.. but with so many they decided to let you state your handicap.. the winning foursome had 3 players with a plus 30 handicap,,yeal right, the winning players each golf a golf bag and a full set of top line irons.,, so when they send me a invite I just pitch it

[BarronDDS]

I work to get my handicap as low as i can, a lot of guys try to get it as high as they can. I dont get it! Handicapped events are full of flat out cheaters...... Period!

[ZPVB]

I've seen a guy with a 9 handicap shoot 72 on 18 and it was someone I played with a lot, but it was once in 500 rounds.

That said, I played in a member guest (I was the guest) where the other guest was an 18 and shot 34. His team won the flight going away.

Side note, Jim Furyk played in that member guest and had to play to a +4, his partner was an 20 or something so they weren't in the first flight. Not on topic but I always thought it was funny that a U.S. Open Champion was in the second flight.

[FKA HB]

Can't comment on the legitimacy, but I know I wouldn't like to see it. Also, the member has some pretty big balls inviting a 32 handicap guest.

[z18]

When I played in a league my partner got beat by a 30+ handicapper who shot under 40 for nine holes. He apparently captured lightning in a bottle because he did not shoot better than 48 the rest of the season and had not shot better than 49 prior to that round. I cannot speak for the legitimacy of the 32 handicapper in the original post, but I have seen it happen.

[crich88848]

This is why in my club there is always a net winner and a gross winner. The torunament director also enters in all scores for tournaments into the handicap system. They also reserve the right to reduce scores if they feel someone is sandbagging. Our handicaps are updated on the 1st and 15th of every month, so if you start shooting better out of nowhere your handicap should reflect that.