Did David Leadbetter ruin Michelle Wie as a golfer?

[El Shanker]

Who cares about any of it as long as she keeps repping those nice Nike skirts....

 

 

But Led seems to be useless. Good players win regularly and play well often, avg players play well sometimes and win sometimes.

[Loki]

Some say she just never learned to win and I believe them.

 

My contention for a long time. Learn to beat your competition, it's a skill. Learn to close out the match. Get all those things figured out when you are young. Mr. Woods did a great service to his son in that regard holding him back. Sure you saw Tiger play in the US Open at 16, but that wasn't the focus.

[Shilgy]

She won the US Women's publinks at what? 14? And a year later made the quarters of the Men's Publinks. And let's not forget the financial aspect. Did you want her to learn to win Hawaii women's events? She had been doing that since what 12 or 13? Costs a bit more to commute to events from Hawaii.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

When I first saw her as a teenager, I was astonished by her swing. So graceful and flashy and that wrap around finish. Whoever's idea it was to change that is to blame.

[bigeasy]

Great swing, but never learned how to win. I think she still has plenty of time to work it out. She needs some mental toughness.

[jpbouffard]

I was surprised to see how Michelle's swing had gone from being sort of loose looking to it's present form, which is considerably tighter and more "violent." But that happens to everyone to some degree as their body matures. We forget we started watching her when she was about 14.

 

I don't think Leadbetter "made" her shorten her swing or make it more technical. I think that's just her way. She wants to figure everything out and be perfect. As for her not having fun, just read some of the stories about her....she has plenty of fun and is not being held back by being a workaholic.

 

I think when you look at Lydia Ko, as has been pointed out, you can see that Leadbetter doesn't force one type of swing on anyone.

 

I like Leadbetter's ideas about the swing. I think he's right that the key thing that separates good players and poor players is the synchronization of the different motions in the swing. Synchronizing arm and body action. Sequencing. He was the first teacher I ever heard who stressed this. Of course he is also big on shaft plane, meaning that it should be steep-ish going back and flat-ish coming down. But almost every teacher for decades has known the importance of shaft plane and has, in one way or another, stressed this in their teaching.

 

I don't like The A Swing. I read the book and I think I understand it, but I just think it's too much to ask someone to learn a swing with that odd backswing plane and position at the top. I think it makes sense, but it's so unorthodox that I can't go down that road at age 51.

 

Anyway.....Lead did NOT ruin Michelle Wie IMO, and I think he is an excellent teacher.

[JD3]

I dont really understand what's going on here. Super wide stance , square feet, staying in flexion on backswing, jamming knees together on down swing, head moving so far forward on thru swing....doesn't look like a tour swing IMO

http://youtu.be/bJHNubx-8m8

[North Texas]

When I first saw her as a teenager, I was astonished by her swing. So graceful and flashy and that wrap around finish. Whoever's idea it was to change that is to blame.

 

During the week leading up to the ANA Inspiration, Golf Channel did a piece on her back when she was a teenager playing in various women's tournaments. As a teenager she was in contention and almost won one or two tournaments including the ANA.

 

Her swing then and her swing now are like night and day. IMHO, she would have dominated the LPGA with her teenager swing.

[cwglum]

She certainly looks a lot less natural and reactive now than when she was playing as a Teen.

Everything looks forced and overly technical.

 

She seems to be stuck in constant search mode, almost Tiger esque ... minus all the winning of course.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

Didn't I read somewhere that she was wanting to return to the swing of her younger youth?

[jpbouffard]

I dont really understand what's going on here. Super wide stance , square feet, staying in flexion on backswing, jamming knees together on down swing, head moving so far forward on thru swing....doesn't look like a tour swing IMO

[media=]http://youtu.be/bJHNubx-8m8[/media]

 

I agree that the wide stance looks odd. But she's probably so flexible that she's adopted it as a way to prevent over-rotating.

 

I disagree with your assessment of the downswing. She has tremendously powerful lower body action leading the downswing just as it should be. Her head stays rock still and even moves back a titch until well after the ball is gone. As she goes to follow through the head has to move forward as she releases her posture in that wide stance.

 

Wish it were my swing....

[Petunia Sprinkle]

I dont really understand what's going on here. Super wide stance , square feet, staying in flexion on backswing, jamming knees together on down swing, head moving so far forward on thru swing....doesn't look like a tour swing IMO

[media=]http://youtu.be/bJHNubx-8m8[/media]

 

I agree that the wide stance looks odd. But she's probably so flexible that she's adopted it as a way to prevent over-rotating.

 

I disagree with your assessment of the downswing. She has tremendously powerful lower body action leading the downswing just as it should be. Her head stays rock still and even moves back a titch until well after the ball is gone. As she goes to follow through the head has to move forward as she releases her posture in that wide stance.

 

Wish it were my swing....

 

She looks like she's riding an invisible elephant.

[robelinks]

I'm not sure she really cares that much about golf anymore. She has been at it in a very serious way for most of her life and I think it just doesn't hold the allure that other things do - friends, social events, traveling... she is the queen of social media and you can tell that's where her heart is. Who can blame her. Most of her childhood was consumed by golf.

 

The lack of success since winning the US Open has to be a disappointment as well. Not sure it's burn out, but it gets a little old grinding through missed cut after missed cut.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see her get married and want to have a family and do an Anika or Lorena and just walk away.

[Shilgy]

I'm not sure she really cares that much about golf anymore. She has been at it in a very serious way for most of her life and I think it just doesn't hold the allure that other things do - friends, social events, traveling... she is the queen of social media and you can tell that's where her heart is. Who can blame her. Most of her childhood was consumed by golf.

 

The lack of success since winning the US Open has to be a disappointment as well. Not sure it's burn out, but it gets a little old grinding through missed cut after missed cut.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see her get married and want to have a family and do an Anika or Lorena and just walk away.

It would be a little uncomfortable dating her with dad hovering a few feet away lol. :)

[MaccaRayDudley]

I think Michelle Wei's biggest issue has been the influence of her parents. The level of expectation they placed on her was crushing. She should have been allowed to develop in her own time before progressing to the LPGA tour instead of trying to play on the PGA tour. That was madness.

 

It's hard to debate Lydia Ko's success with Leadbetter, 10 tournaments in two years including 2 majors and reaching World number 1 by the age of 18. I doubt David Leadbetter did her any harm at all. There's every reason to believe he has helped Lydia Ko a lot I'd say.

[Scooterboy59]

I like Michelle Wie. I think she just enjoys like flying under the radar now. I also believe she loves to play but may not have the drive that the other ladies have and enjoys her life that golf has provided. Talent is still there but maybe not the focus. This is just my observation. To answer the question above I would say no.

[rafal]

Lydia Ko is far far superior in the mental department and that's one dimension of professional golf that's really underappreciated, partly because it's hard to quantify.

 

As opposed to 300 yard BOMBS OMG.

[wobgon]

And once again......She's just not that good.

[legitimategolf]

And once again......She's just not that good.

 

Agree. But it is interesting how so many people perceive her as one of the all-time greats who for whatever reason just didn't take the bull by the horns. The story of Michelle Wie is also the story of how people can be fooled not just by a golf swing but also by biased media and advertising.

[North Texas]

And once again......She's just not that good.

 

Agree. But it is interesting how so many people perceive her as one of the all-time greats who for whatever reason just didn't take the bull by the horns. The story of Michelle Wie is also the story of how people can be fooled not just by a golf swing but also by biased media and advertising.

 

At one time, she was that good.

[nikegal]

Michelle knows how to win, lol :) Maddie

[Boricua Golf]

I caddied at the Lotte Championship for the past 6 years, last year I caddied for Mi Hyang Lee and Michelle was actually hitting the ball really well, just a small mental mistake and she dropped a few shots, in 2014 when she won, she was clicking in all cylinders and hit almost every shot she wanted, I think she overthink some shots instead of trusting it, I really like her, she was really nice to me, we spoke a few times on the practice green and driving range...I hope she wins again...

[QuigleyDU]

i feel like everyone is missing the mark on this one. isn't it her putting that is holding her back? I seems that her ball striking is still decent. i could be way off though,and admit that i have not paid much attention to her.

[QuigleyDU]

I dont really understand what's going on here. Super wide stance , square feet, staying in flexion on backswing, jamming knees together on down swing, head moving so far forward on thru swing....doesn't look like a tour swing IMO

[media=]http://youtu.be/bJHNubx-8m8[/media]

 

 

i stand corrected. this is drastically different from what i remembered. strange.

[wobgon]

And once again......She's just not that good.

 

Agree. But it is interesting how so many people perceive her as one of the all-time greats who for whatever reason just didn't take the bull by the horns. The story of Michelle Wie is also the story of how people can be fooled not just by a golf swing but also by biased media and advertising.

 

At one time, she was that good.

So were many,many,many players......Time we look at Wie for what she is now instead of what she was then.

[Forged4ever]

Nothing against all of the keypad swing gurus however her swing's fine. I don't understand how someone, especially an Am, can critique a world class Pro, and regardless of the current state of affairs, she is still a World Class Player. Without seeing multiple footage from myriad clubs through her bag and then having no idea what her swing philosophy and thoughts are, well, ya see where I'm goin with this-

 

For someone to sit there and point our perceived positional flaws when she could step on a tee today, plant it and stripe one 3 bills right down the pipe, well, I can listen to a lot but some mid/high cap chirping about positions is a bit much, ya gotta gimme that, LMAO.

 

My .01 is her problem lays somewhere on that 5.5" track between her ears and there ain't nothin Leadbetter or most of the other Teachers are gonna do to fix that.

 

Even her putting, which is just a crying shame that it's what it is, however that is definitely mental and Maddie spent some time with Michelle both on and off of the course this past winter at a Nike shindig and #1, she's gonna be fine and #2, she's fine with Nike. She brings a whhhhhhole lot more to the table than her ball striking ability-

 

Speaking to, she is still one of THE most striking Ladies to step on a tee anywhere, anytime, any day~

 

And she can still plant it and send it 300~

 

Ain't many Ladies on this earth that can do that :)

 

Stay Well My Friends :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

[QuigleyDU]

Nothing against all of the keypad swing gurus however her swing's fine. I don't understand how someone, especially an Am, can critique a world class Pro, and regardless of the current state of affairs, she is still a World Class Player. Without seeing multiple footage from myriad clubs through her bag and then having no idea what her swing philosophy and thoughts are, well, ya see where I'm goin with this-

 

For someone to sit there and point our perceived positional flaws when she could step on a tee today, plant it and stripe one 3 bills right down the pipe, well, I can listen to a lot but some mid/high cap chirping about positions is a bit much, ya gotta gimme that, LMAO.

 

My .01 is her problem lays somewhere on that 5.5" track between her ears and there ain't nothin Leadbetter or most of the other Teachers are gonna do to fix that.

 

Even her putting, which is just a crying shame that it's what it is, however that is definitely mental and Maddie spent some time with Michelle both on and off of the course this past winter at a Nike shindig and #1, she's gonna be fine and #2, she's fine with Nike. She brings a whhhhhhole lot more to the table than her ball striking ability-

 

Speaking to, she is still one of THE most striking Ladies to step on a tee anywhere, anytime, any day~

 

And she can still plant it and send it 300~

 

Ain't many Ladies on this earth that can do that :)

 

Stay Well My Friends :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

 

With all respect and i do have a lot for you, that is what this place is about. That does not mean anyone is a better player than her.. although i bet there some here that are. i am not among them haha. it is a discussion about how someone with all that natural talent in the world self is self destructing. it does not take an expert in swing dynamics to see that there are constant changes. that causes confusion and struggles. in the grand scheme of what could have been Wie has accomplished relatively nothing, even at one point losing her card. With her age the clock is ticking to the point where the critics will be able to look back and say "wow! what happened there?"

[ChipDriver]

My shorthand thoughts:

 

1) she's not hungy/motivated by winning.

2) she's constantly tinkering with her swing

3) she still loves golf.

 

I think that she's not motivated to win simply b/c she got front loaded a lot of money from Nike. She got front-loaded and paid $50 million - that's more than most LPGAers make in an entire career. Honestly - why do you have to win anymore? For the money? Please. Make about 1/2 million a year by making a cuts and placing in the top 20? At 4% on say $10-20 million - you're already making more in interest than most LPGAers make in a year playing golf. And winning isn't necessarily going to help her with endorsements....she already has those now too. The money on the LPGA isn't much of an incentive IMO.

 

She admits to tinkering with her swing and seem independent-minded enough to try whatever she wants. That's the "entitlement" generation - from a kid who was raised in a nice environment, best schools, and asian family. The entitlement that many of them have is real - that they have the power to make choices about their own lives. I see that in MW in spades.

 

But despite all of this - she is still willing to go out and play every week. Even if she embarrasses herself. She makes so much money already - that you honestly have to wonder - why go through the embarrassment of playing golf anymore? Financially she doesn't need it in any way shape or form.

 

Maybe....it's b/c she loves the game? or maybe she realizes that you have to actually go out and earn a trophy - you can't just show up.

 

And for THAT - I give her a ton of credit and admire her fortitude to keep playing, even if she's not doing well. :)

 

...and I bet you guys thought I was bashing her....?

[North Texas]

And once again......She's just not that good.

 

Agree. But it is interesting how so many people perceive her as one of the all-time greats who for whatever reason just didn't take the bull by the horns. The story of Michelle Wie is also the story of how people can be fooled not just by a golf swing but also by biased media and advertising.

 

At one time, she was that good.

So were many,many,many players......Time we look at Wie for what she is now instead of what she was then.

 

How many of those many, many, many, players ever played in the final group of the final day of a professional major championship at age 13, after shooting a 66 in the 3rd round?

 

Or won an USGA adult event at age 13?

 

Or made the cut in a women's U.S. Open at age 13?

 

Or finished 4th in a professional major championship at age 14?

 

Or had 4 top 5 finishes on the LPGA at the age of 15/16?

[Shilgy]

Nothing against all of the keypad swing gurus however her swing's fine. I don't understand how someone, especially an Am, can critique a world class Pro, and regardless of the current state of affairs, she is still a World Class Player. Without seeing multiple footage from myriad clubs through her bag and then having no idea what her swing philosophy and thoughts are, well, ya see where I'm goin with this-

 

For someone to sit there and point our perceived positional flaws when she could step on a tee today, plant it and stripe one 3 bills right down the pipe, well, I can listen to a lot but some mid/high cap chirping about positions is a bit much, ya gotta gimme that, LMAO.

 

My .01 is her problem lays somewhere on that 5.5" track between her ears and there ain't nothin Leadbetter or most of the other Teachers are gonna do to fix that.

 

Even her putting, which is just a crying shame that it's what it is, however that is definitely mental and Maddie spent some time with Michelle both on and off of the course this past winter at a Nike shindig and #1, she's gonna be fine and #2, she's fine with Nike. She brings a whhhhhhole lot more to the table than her ball striking ability-

 

Speaking to, she is still one of THE most striking Ladies to step on a tee anywhere, anytime, any day~

 

And she can still plant it and send it 300~

 

Ain't many Ladies on this earth that can do that :)

 

Stay Well My Friends :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

 

With all respect and i do have a lot for you, that is what this place is about. That does not mean anyone is a better player than her.. although i bet there some here that are. i am not among them haha. it is a discussion about how someone with all that natural talent in the world self is self destructing. it does not take an expert in swing dynamics to see that there are constant changes. that causes confusion and struggles. in the grand scheme of what could have been Wie has accomplished relatively nothing, even at one point losing her card. With her age the clock is ticking to the point where the critics will be able to look back and say "wow! what happened there?"

Since getting her card she has never finished lower than 69th on the money list. Am I missing something?