Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[Conrad1953]

Since I have been playing with Central Alabama Golf and have recorded scores at various

courses, I do score better on the courses with faster greens that roll true. I have more

fun putting on those courses too, naturally, and look forward to getting my putter in hand.

 

I have limited experience on super fast greens though; greens in the 13+ range and with

tricky slopes. The times I have played on them I had many 3 putts and even some 4 putts.

It's a pretty helpless feeling watching your ball and thinking it won't even get to the hole

and it ends up 15 feet past the hole.

 

I think my scores would definitely go up at first and hopefully I would adapt and my scores

would eventually go down.

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, scotee said:

 

Congratulations Jimbo

 

 

IMHO FWIW---- My definition of geezer has nothing to do with age it is all about the attitude---- But if someone wants to call me a geezer that is ok call me anything you want. Just don't call me late for 3 things food, money or Sex

[miamistomp]

Jackie Burke passes

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/19/sports/golf/jack-burke-jr-dead.html

Edited January 20 by miamistomp

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, Conrad1953 said:

 

I love the noun turned into the verb.............geezering. My first recollection of hearing that

verb was right here in the Grille when @lobstah used it in a post. I seem to remember

saying at the time that I was gonna steal it from him.....and have.

I do not hear that term per say a lot around here. The one time I hear it a lot is in biking circles as in referring to a 3 wheel Harley Electra Glide as a "Geezer Glide". Most terms around here are "old farts" which I have picked up on and often refer to myself as such. Other terms are "Dinosaurs" or "Fossils". Another term for eating around here especially when we had the K&W Cafeteria for the senior hours was "hobble and Gobble". One of the most dangerous things around here is on Wednesday Senior days at Food Lion or Kroger. They will run over you literally on those motorized scooters to get to the free 2 day old cookies and snack cakes or a "senior special" on something. 

I never figured this out. When I was hurt and recovering I was given a temporary Handicapped placard along with the Docs telling me I needed to walk. Never used it because I saw some in worse shape than I was. Never used the motorized scooters either. I just hobbled around on my cane with my back brace on. Yeah I never figured out why they gave me a temporary Handicapped placard when all the time they were stressing for me to walk. 

I got out yesterday morning to transfer some money and do some stock business at my bank.  Went by the Moose club to pay my membership there. We are joining because they have great food at reasonable prices. In the main tourist season it is an escape from the snobby entitled tourons and their snotty nosed brats. Stopped by the club and practiced the short game some and shot the breeze with the members. The wife called wanting to go to Kroger and so since the car was warmed up I swang by and got her. LOL had 2 women try to pick me up in Kroger. One I would say was 30 something or 40. Not bad looking but with a couple of rug rats. Another one told me her age without blinking which was 72. Told me flat out she would love to snuggle with me on this cold night. I told her so would my wife. My wife was standing back snickering. She has heard it all before and knows I am not going to fool around. I have never figured it out. My wife says it is because I do not look 66 with my hair and the way I carry myself. She says it is also I am a big Teddy Bear type. She will tell you that all small children, dogs and Old Women like me

Edited January 20 by BIG STU

[Soloman1]

Very few greens are 13+ on tour, except when the USGA gets their grubby little hands on them for a US Open. Usually 11-12. Not every green on a course is the same speed because of contour.

 

Tour greens are obviously conditioned more meticulously. Grain is virtually eliminated on Bermuda tour greens. Green cutting machines lift and cut the top horizontally, they’re brushed, treated so there is less variability than what you’re used to playing on.

 

Overall, you can make more putts on faster greens because of less turf variability.

 

Another misconception is that a course plays easier when greens are wet or soft and putting is easier. They score better because the green hold better so they’re closer to the hole on approach shots.

 

Greens can be soft and fast, hard and fast, soft and slow, hard and slow. Water does not affect the speed that much because the water drains quickly from the grass blades to the underlying soil.

 

If your read and ball speed is right, and you start it on the right line, you’ll make more with faster greens than slower greens. If you don’t, it doesn’t matter. You won’t make it anyway without a lucky bounce off some imperfection on the green.

 

Just don’t let your head get in the way by getting anxious about fast greens.

 

[BIG STU]

24 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

Jackie Burke passes

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/19/sports/golf/jack-burke-jr-dead.html

What is ironic on this was when I heard it on GC I was doing some "fireside reading" The only golf instruction type book I read is Harvey Pennick's Little Red Book which IMHO is more than golf instruction. I was reading the chapter where he talks about Jackie Burke and Jimmy Demaret founding the Champions Club in Texas. Kind of spooky if you ask me

[BIG STU]

2 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Very few greens are 13+ on tour, except when the USGA gets their grubby little hands on them for a US Open. Usually 11-12. Not every green on a course is the same speed because of contour.

 

Tour greens are obviously conditioned more meticulously. Grain is virtually eliminated on Bermuda tour greens. Green cutting machines lift and cut the top horizontally, they’re brushed, treated so there is less variability than what you’re used to playing on.

 

Overall, you can make more putts on faster greens because of less turf variability.

 

Another misconception is that a course plays easier when greens are wet or soft and putting is easier. They score better because the green hold better so they’re closer to the hole on approach shots.

 

Greens can be soft and fast, hard and fast, soft and slow, hard and slow. Water does not affect the speed that much because the water drains quickly from the grass blades to the underlying soil.

 

If your read and ball speed is right, and you start it on the right line, you’ll make more with faster greens than slower greens. If you don’t, it doesn’t matter. You won’t make it anyway without a lucky bounce off some imperfection on the green.

 

Just don’t let your head get in the way by getting anxious about fast greens.

 

Ironic we had this same discussion darn near word for word over at the course yesterday. And yes you are spot on as SOP with you

[bscinstnct]

Ha! Now here’s a good YouTube share @miamistomp !

 

 

 

[dashanks]

15 hours ago, Jim53 said:

Well I made it to 65, on the rum and its going to be a night. So if I post some nonsense later I have an excuse.

Maybe go to tour talk and piss off the ball people...either side it does not matter.

Congrats.  Medicare, baby!  Whoo!

[braincramp52]

9 hours ago, Conrad1953 said:

Question......................

 

Do you think your score would go up or down putting on tour quality and tour speed greens?

 

 

I think my scores would go down once I got used to the faster greens.

[Duct Tape]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:33 AM, Reasonability said:

 

I'm not alone on this planet.  Thank you!

Decidedly not. 
 

Not only have I never had a hole in one, I’ve never even seen one live. The closest I ever got was a buddy in the next group back in our usual 12 guys every Sat. Or Sunday. Or both.  (Sorry honey!).  We heard the shouts and ran back to join the celebration. For many years the only one in our group. This from a collection of guys mostly hovering around scratch, with some venturing into plus territory and a couple playing in the national amateur events. 
 

Then, a couple of years ago, S., a very good friend,  whose game had fallen off after a couple of surgeries, bounces one off a tree into the hole (again I didn’t get to see it). We made him pay for drinks the entire weekend. But the worst was when one friend brought a guest, usually completely forbidden in our group. Some Muckety Muck the pro wanted us to play with. Had to be the worst golfer I’ve ever seen. Truly cringeworthy on the range. A unique, almost admirable, combination of over the top, outside in, and reverse pivot. He was ahead of us and we were two holes back by the 9th. I finally walked in and told the pro, a good friend, to go F himself. 
 

Joined some other friends in the bar, and later learned when the others rolled in (already toasted) that Mr. MM had jarred a shot on number 16.  Downhill 160 yards, at altitude.  With a hybrid. 
 

I’m glad I didn’t see it.
 

Golf is a cruel game. 
 

 

 

Edited January 20 by Duct Tape

[Duct Tape]

23 hours ago, nitram said:

I totally get it Your Honor. I've played over 10K rounds in 40+ years of playing this wonderful game. You'd figure the law of averages would apply at least once, right? I've come as close as the ball needing to roll one more dimple, land in the hole and bounce out, roll across the hole, hit the flagstick, etc.  Absolute cruelty, at times. I've even thought about what will happen when I do happen to dunk one.

 

On another note, I have somehow managed to hole 3 albatross', so it's not all bad luck . . .

Same for me.  But I will alway call them double eagles. Good enough for Gene Sarazen…

[Duct Tape]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Ha! Now here’s a good YouTube share @miamistomp !

 

 

 

Made me laugh BSC.  Well done!

[bscinstnct]

54 minutes ago, Duct Tape said:

Made me laugh BSC.  Well done!

The air guitar 🎸 at 1:32 is choice 🤣

[Hickory4ever]

2 hours ago, Duct Tape said:

Decidedly not. 
 

Not only have I never had a hole in one, I’ve never even seen one live. The closest I ever got was a buddy in the next group back in our usual 12 guys every Sat. Or Sunday. Or both.  (Sorry honey!).  We heard the shouts and ran back to join the celebration. For many years the only one in our group. This from a collection of guys mostly hovering around scratch, with some venturing into plus territory and a couple playing in the national amateur events. 
 

Then, a couple of years ago, S., a very good friend,  whose game had fallen off after a couple of surgeries, bounces one off a tree into the hole (again I didn’t get to see it). We made him pay for drinks the entire weekend. But the worst was when one friend brought a guest, usually completing forbidden in our group. Some Muckety Muck the pro wanted us to play with. Had to be the worst golfer I’ve ever seen. Truly cringeworthy on the range. A unique, almost admirable, combination of over the top, outside in, and reverse pivot. He was ahead of us and we were two holes back by the 9th. I finally walked in and told the pro, a good friend, to go F himself. 
 

Joined some other friends in the bar, and later learned when the others rolled in (already toasted) that Mr. MM had jarred a shot on number 16.  Downhill 160 yards, at altitude.  With a hybrid. 
 

I’m glad I didn’t see it.
 

Golf is a cruel game. 
 

 

Golf is a cruel game and nowhere is it more apparent as it comes to a HIO. There is no doubt that luck plays a large part.

 

I played for 24 years and played to a single digit handicap without having a HIO. I had witnessed 3 or 4 by my playing partners, had a lot of close calls, but none for myself. That changed in May of 1997 when I made one. Since that time, I have made a few more and witnessed others several times. I have just been lucky I guess.

 

In August of 2020, it seemed the stars were aligned. Early in the month, our hickory group was invited to play at Cherry Hill, a prestigious course that has a long history. Lady Luck was with me and I made a HIO on the 16th, the first one with hickory clubs. Ten days later, at another hickory event, one of my playing partners (a very good player) made a HIO, his first. And a week later, my friend Gerald added the third HIO, also playing hickory. It was his first after playing golf almost 50 years. It made for a good article in our newsletter.

 

For those that have been playing a long time and having none, be patient. You never know when your fortunes will change. I do not count my HIO’s as my greatest accomplishments because it is more luck than skill. I don’t save the ball or mount it on a trophy, it is just a fun factoid in my 50 years of play. I like to joke with my friends that I am in A HIO slump, after all it is coming up on 4 years 😀.

 

On the subject of putting on fast greens, Cherry Hill is the only place I have played where they post the green speed which are fast. I prefer fast greens and tend to putt well on them but feel that green consistency is more important.

 

 

[Reasonability]

So many great posts.  I'm often conflicted about jumping in the pool versus sitting back and watching the great Grille parade.  Ready for less winter and more golf. 

 

Loving the hole-in-one (or not) stories. 

 

Miami inspired two thoughts on this end.  

 

RIP Tommy Smothers.  And Johnny Carson.  Thank you, for walking us through the memories of both.   Something is gained and something is lost as life flies by.   I miss the earlier titans of tickling our funny bone.  

 

Jackie Burke - Among the most beautiful swings you'll ever find.  Poetic.  Efficient.  And you're all welcome (lol) I'll end my swing analysis rant about that one right there.   The man owned a simply gorgeous motion.  He verbalized it in simple terms which are largely about feel and imagery.  I never met the man.  Know folks who have.  All I know firsthand is the man moved that stick in a very special way.  

 

Green speeds at a tour-like level.  I'll spare myself the humiliation of bringing a knife to a gunfight.  There are clearly those with more firsthand knowledge than me.   Like so many, I've had the good fortune of playing many tour-stop tracks, what "could" be a tour-stop course, and many-o-local places never-to-be deemed tour-like.   But I've rarely if ever actually been on any track that was prepped for the tour in the way they're known to be prepped. 

 

This brings me to my last (and hopefully worthy) bit of sharing on this whole notion of putting and green speed.  Maybe - hopefully - fingers crossed - this will be something that genuinely helps my friends here ....

 

When we read a green, we are guessing.  Hopefully a well-grounded guess, but that's what it is, no?  Then when we execute, we are trying to match a stroke to that best guess.  So now there's two giant elephants in the room.  A best guess is being applied to a best guess.  

 

So many words on the page.  Preaching to the choir.   The question (from my perspective) comes down to how willing we are to apply our best guesses without caring so much the soul begins to boil? 

 

A putt made and a putt missed both have one thing in common.  Both were a guess layered on a guess.  Full and firm commitment resting on the pilings of self-forgiveness. 

 

This golfer went down a ton of rabbit holes in search of the most repeatable, comfortable motion.  Name it, and I probably explored it from the motion itself, the setup, grip, ways to envision speed, yadda.  Three months from now what I thought got me to a good place may change again.  Very little has served me personally better than remembering there's a lot of guesswork is in play at all times.   

 

 

  

[Soloman1]

Green speed is always just a rough reference. They use one green, the flattest area of it, then roll balls in opposite  directions and take the average.

 

An older green reading method called vector putting used separate charts for each green speed (down to 0.5, e.g. 9.5) and gave you the break based on the offset from the fall line.

 

You can do it yourself very simply. On the practice green, find the fall line (straight putt) then putt straight at the hole from 10’ along the perpendicular (90° offset) from the fall line and see how much it broke.

 

Let’s say it broke 2 feet. That means that if you have a putt that is offset from a fall line 45°, it will break 1 foot.

 

Breaks 0 along the fall line and breaks in linear increments up to 2 feet at the maximum break at 90° from the fall line.

 

You can then estimate the break based on the putt length and offset using the 10’ putt as the benchmark.

 

I know, too hard. But it’s easy to estimate quickly after you get the feel of using it. All reads are estimations anyway!

[Soloman1]

Didn’t see your post, but we ended on the same note. Guesses and estimations. 🙂

 

[Reasonability]

13 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Green speed is always just a rough reference. They use one green, the flattest area of it, then roll balls in opposite  directions and take the average.

 

An older green reading method called vector putting used separate charts for each green speed (down to 0.5, e.g. 9.5) and gave you the break based on the offset from the fall line.

 

You can do it yourself very simply. On the practice green, find the fall line (straight putt) then putt straight at the hole from 10’ along the perpendicular (90° offset) from the fall line and see how much it broke.

 

Let’s say it broke 2 feet. That means that if you have a putt that is offset from a fall line 45°, it will break 1 foot.

 

Breaks 0 along the fall line and breaks in linear increments up to 2 feet at the maximum break at 90° from the fall line.

 

You can then estimate the break based on the putt length and offset using the 10’ putt as the benchmark.

 

I know, too hard. But it’s easy to estimate quickly after you get the feel of using it. All reads are estimations anyway!

 Have never heard this before.  Will definitely give it a go.  Awesome!

 

Stand perpendicular to a straight putt from 10' and check the amount of break.  45* putt line is half as much and so on until there is zero break.  

 

The perpendicular putt -- Its intended to roll 10 feet along its own line, correct?  (The idea is NOT trying to make the same stroke that would have rolled 10' along the fall line).

[Soloman1]

Benchmark is just aiming at the hole from the perpendicular as if it were a straight putt, trying to die it at the hole.

 

You get a feel for the amount of break and how much more speed needed.

[Duct Tape]

Green speed preferences are completely all over the map. I’ve played a few warm climate Bermuda greens (not tour prepared a la Soloman discussion) where I couldn’t get it to the hole and over read every break. There was all this talk about grain direction, and the setting sun, or the ocean, or something else. I couldn’t  figure it out then and can’t remember now. 
 

I vastly prefer fast bent grass greens. Maybe it’s my inherently flawed putting stroke that gets worse if I need to hit it harder.  My home course, and many others I’ve been fortunate to play over the years, have often been brutally fast. It’s an ego thing to some course supers. When I was at Oakmont they kept telling me how they have to slow them down for the Open 🤓😳. 
 

I’ve putted off more greens into ponds,  bunkers, and even once into the infamous barranca than I care to remember. When I was a kid, I could putt lights out. No fear. Somewhere around 60 my short game feel seems like it took a break. Still pretty deadly inside 8 or so feet, but the long lag putts have been killing me. I’m patiently waiting for it to come back!
 

I don’t really care about stimp numbers. They sure seem to vary b/w greens and b/w courses.  It’s more subjective to me. I know when it’s really fast. 

[TiScape]

Too much golf talk!  😜

 I’ll jump in to say I’m smoking a 23 pound brisket for dinner tomorrow night. Considering it’s gonna take ~20 hours to cook and needs to rest for ~2 hours, I need to put it on tonight at 8! Thank goodness for the Traeger!! 
 

*to chime in on the green speed convo. I don’t even care. Being an 80s shooter I’m just happy to get my ball on the green in as few shots as possible. The putting is meh.

**helps explain my 10 handicap 🤣

Edited January 20 by TiScape

[Reasonability]

LMAO - Guess we've been told.  Back to the sidelines and watching.  Thank you, Sol.  Good while it lasted.  

[Conrad1953]

1 minute ago, Reasonability said:

LMAO - Guess we've been told.  Back to the sidelines and watching.  Thank you, Sol.  Good while it lasted.  

 

Haha, taking a break from the household stuff. Was just gonna bring up green slopes and

pin placements. ...............although a long slow cooked brisket is pretty awesome!😀

[Soloman1]

55 minutes ago, Duct Tape said:

There was all this talk about grain direction, and the setting sun, or the ocean, or something else. I couldn’t  figure it out then and can’t remember now. 

 

Good to just forget all that, doc.

Mountains and water don't attract or repel golf balls.

Modern greens are contoured for water to run away from lakes and streams near the green so the chemicals stay out of the water.

Grass does not follow the sun.

Any grain follows the contour - downhill.

It's all gravity.

Gin is better for martinis than vodka.

 

Edited January 20 by Soloman1

[Qqq123xx]

16 hours ago, Reasonability said:

 

As I live and breathe.  Been a long time since hearing from the Q.   Hoping all is well!  

Thanks. All is good. Yourself?  Been around. Still read thread. Hard to keep up with you guys. I post something one night, next day there are 20 pages more and I forgot what I posted. 

[Soloman1]

18 minutes ago, Reasonability said:

LMAO - Guess we've been told.  Back to the sidelines and watching.  Thank you, Sol.  Good while it lasted.  

 

 

This is what I'm thinking about!

 

[TiScape]

40 minutes ago, Reasonability said:

LMAO - Guess we've been told.  Back to the sidelines and watching.  Thank you, Sol.  Good while it lasted.  

At the risk of being so vain as to think this post is about me 🎶 (🤣) I’ll say, pls don’t let me interrupt an enjoyable time Reasy! 

 

[Jim53]

41 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

This is what I'm thinking about!

 

We are going out tonight for the fancy birthday dinner at Eddie V's, I tend to go with the ribeye but tonight may have the strip. They only sell prime so it is all good, I prefer medium to medium rare especially with the strip being so lean normally. 

Pair that with a side of king crab legs and maybe two, no three tito's martinis and all will be well.

I know you prefer a gin martini but I over did it one too many times with T&T's and cannot stand the smell now.

[Qqq123xx]

I like fast greens, fast cars, fast women and especially fast.....