Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[tolmij]

DW sometimes has reflux and the chair is her saviour.

[scomac2002]

Wanna spice up your life? Spend a few days out there on the dark side. You know, those other less hospitable parts of WRX that are populated by trolls and no-it-alls. To get even more excitement for your dollar, make a posting or two on a subject near and dear to your heart or one that you might have had a bit of experience with.
My old friend @Sean2 is back and posting again after a bit of health trouble. He's one of the good guys and always makes a point of responding personally to every poster that participates in any thread that he starts. A lot of these threads ask for opinions on certain subjects, so that's what you get. It's always fun when some good intentioned individual comes along and corrects your opinion or experience. Clearly I haven't been living right or at the very least experiencing golf correctly. But hey, It's all good fun. They mean well after all. Sometimes it's even fun to stir the pot just for the heck of it!

[Sean2]

You are very kind Scomac. Your post kinda reminds me of something Alexander Hamilton said:

“Every man of a different opinion from your own [seems] an ambitious despot or a corrupt knave.” 

ps: I was criticized by a few people for responding to almost everyone who responded in a thread I created.

[scomac2002]

Well, I appreciate your efforts, Sean. After all the thread you started was about how each of us are dealing with stronger lofted irons and how we set our bags up. How can any answer be wrong when it's about individual preferences and experiences. The whole point should be to learn from one another with the hope that our shared experience might just actually provide a bit of a guide to those that face the same issues later.

I remember a while back posting on a topic about declining swing speed being admonished by a well meaning poster that I had a poor attitude and was defeatist. The application of determination and persistence in the gym would provide all the help I needed. The responder seemed to miss the part about me suffering a herniated disc and suffering from degenerating discs as a legitimate impediment to his prescribed solution. It really makes you wonder about some of the characters you run across from time-to-time...

[Conrad1953]

Nice to see you back and posting Sean. Long time no see.

[Michael C.]

If we were all the same life would be boring

[Sean2]

"The whole point should be to learn from one another with the hope that our shared experience might just actually provide a bit of a guide to those that face the same issues later."

Absolutely!

I have shared the same opinion...that while we work hard on our games and/or go to the gym, swing speed decline is inevitable...be it through age, injury, or a combination of the two (by the way, I hope your back stabilizes!). I also suggested that the never ending obsession with chasing distance can end up being more of a hindrance to one's game, as the game is about how many, not how far. I further suggested moving up a tee box or two, so instead of trying to kill the ball and still having a fairway wood into the green, a golfer can take a purposeful swing and have an iron into the green. Most people get it, some don't. To each is own though, if that is how they enjoy the game, more power to them (pun intended). :-)

 

[Sean2]

Hey Conrad! Thank you and it is nice to be seen. :-)

[Sean2]

But if we all were more polite and less rude maybe life would be less adversarial? :-)

[Gauchograd99]

I've given up on trying to speak with people on these sites when it comes to the difference between "what I've seen", "what science says," and "what the industry tells me is right" as it just torques me how many buy into what the companies say.

Titleist - #1 ball in golf ... yeah, because they PAY THE MOST PLAYERS TO PLAY THE BALL... and pay more.

"You should play one ball." - Sorry (looking at you My GolfSpy and others), but there are about 5 balls I like and certain balls tend to work better on certain courses/types for me. For example, at home on hard/fast courses I can play a little softer ball (ChromeSoft or OnCore Elixr) for a bit more spin and play well. When I'm playing Cascata (only done that 2 times for course reviews), I really prefer Srixon Z-Star XV or a Snell MTB. Shot 78 and 77 there with those balls. They tend to take the heat and desert wind better.

"Cavity Back Irons are more forgiving than MBs." - not 100% accurate, but based on WHERE you hit the ball you might find them more accurate. I actually think the higher COR faces might actually deflect the ball offline more. Can't really prove it, but I think there's more dispersion in certain types of irons due to the way the face flexes.

"Feel doesn't matter." - I'm not even touching that subject. EVERYTHING matters in golf. If you don't like the look, feel, sound, etc. of a club/ball/bag/headcover/etc. you will NEVER play well consistently. I cannot play offset clubs as they are not a comfortable look and the one thought in my head is "snap hook alert! do NOT snap it!"

"You need lessons all the time to get better." - My last lesson was with Jamie Mulligan at Skylinks (before he had a bunch of PGA Tour guys to work with) in 1994... I'm a 3 index and took 8 years away from golf to play ice hockey and enjoy other things when golf had me angry and frustrated. Once you have the basics in place you don't really need $200/hr lessons (seems to be the going rate these days in SoCal)... you need to just learn to play what is going on that day. I've scored my best on days where I turned into Bubba Watson (curveballs and ball shaping with the wind), and I've stunk it up hitting straight balls all day long. I know this is personal and everything is relative... I am a scientist after all. I know about test sample size and all that. But I do believe some folks play Lessons instead of playing Golf.

[Conrad1953]

Well, you have described the Clubhouse Grille old friend. This here is a thread (place), where politeness prevails.

[tolmij]

Hello again Sean, good to see you have found your way back to sanity. You must be delusional though, how can you ever think being polite on line is appreciated. I dropped out of another golf site I was heavily involved in and had contributed to the testing stage when the software changed, the management called me a most valued member but that quickly changed when I took offence at some rather personal comments and asked for some posts to be deleted.

 

after finding my way here and being very aged and wanting an easy life now I confine my comments to the Grille, I find this is the only place I have been where every opinion is read and accepted for what it is. I do not involve myself in talking about equipment anywhere other than here as it is fruitless and only leads to devisive comments. One thing I have always had problems with is swing speed, if mine was any slower I would fall asleep during the back swing, I gave up talking about that when it caused a major blow up between the other members who were trying to advise me how to increase it, nothing worked so I accept what is, that also caused a major disagreement again which I did not involve myself. It has always been a point of amusement what people can be offended by.

 

having said all that I am now off to the bed shop to see why my new mattress and base have not yet been delivered, last nigh was a bad one and will be the final sleep in the heap I’d rubbish we purchased before Christmas. The good news is after being given the all clear by my doctor golf is back on the menu.

 

have a good day Grillers.

 

if any comments in this post cause offence to anyone I reserve the right to claim senility.?

 

 

[Sean2]

Thank you Tolmij!

I haven't spend much time in the grill, but I understand what you are saying. I too don't have much club head speed. Yes, I have tried all kinds of things to no avail. I have accepted it and simply play the appropriate tee box (I continue to work hard on my game, but it is what it is...and anyway, one's worth should not be defined by how far they hit a golf ball).

Speaking of which, a number of years ago I outlined a variety of benefits to moving up for many golfers. A few were incensed with my suggestion, saying that I was telling people how to play golf, which wasn't the case at all. Those lies were repeated, and a host of other posts with innuendos and what not. I was shocked by what happened and left the site for a while. Now, that kind of thing doesn't bother me like it did. Maybe they weren't raised properly, maybe they are having trouble in their lives, and flaming people is how they deal with it...I don't know, but how a simple suggestion escalated into that, was beyond me.

I shared a story and it used to really annoy one member...I don't know why, maybe he felt he needed to move up a tee box or so, but his ego won't permit it, lol. Anyway, here is the story:

I was paired as a single with a twosome and another single (we were all around the same age). One of the twosome asks me what tees I will be playing and I say the gold tees. He responded bombastically, "We play the blues." The other single says, "You really playing the golds?" I said, "Yeah, I'm a senior and I play tees appropriate to how far I drive the ball." You could see him struggling mightily. Finally he decided to join me. 

The "Blues" brothers barely broke 100. The single was over joyed. He said it was the best round he shot in his life (84, finally broke 90), the first time he reached holes x, y, and z in regulation, the first time he hit an iron on "x" par 3. He said it was the most fund he ever had playing golf. Up until then he told me he always played the Blues...never again he said. 

Anyway, I have always believed that one's Internet persona and "real life" persona should be one and the same. Hiding behind a keyboard while dumping on others is a bit cowardly in my opinion.

I guess what I don't understand is we ALL share a passion for this great game, so you would think we would be more supportive with one another. On the other hand, maybe I AM naive, lol.

[BIG STU]

Yep Sean is a good guy. You know we were talking about diminishing swing speed the other day. Something really came to light today. Most of my golfing days I have typically played the same type of clubs with traditional lofts. i was thinking back in the day 120 yards with a 47 48* PW was in my wheelhouse now it is in my wheelhouse with the 43 44* 9 iron. I learned to accept my diminishing SS and have adapted to it. Naaw I have not went to stronger lofted irons just practice the 9 iron like I used to practice the PW. Even though I can still hit low lofted irons I have sucked up and now have 2 hybrids in the bag. One of them I will rotate out with a 5 wood on occasion. I have kinda done like the Marine Corp---- learned to "improvise adapt and overcome"------ I will admit I go about things differently than others do

[BIG STU]

Dead on it all the way around you nailed it dead in the screws. Certain balls play differently with certain clubs and conditions. I have said it for years and have been laughed at. And it does certainly makes a difference in putters. If you look at new putters you will see different ( read softer) inserts for the harder modern ball. I had a young friend of mine putt a real balata ball one day with his modern insert putter. He quipped "that feels like a marshmallow" Then I let him putt it with the old Armour Ironmaster I had in the bag that day. He got the picture. On that deal like I stated before I learned to adapt. Today with all the tricked up aerodynamics they have on modern balls they will play differently in different areas. On newer irons especially those with those hot Carpenter Steel faces the ball comes off of them FAST. IMHO for me they do not compress enough on the face for spin and control. But hey if it rocks someone's boat to hit their gap wedge where I hit my antique 9 iron so be it. I have never played equipment just because Joe Pro plays and endorses it. I will say I may be equipment biased because I have played Macgregor Irons and Cleveland wedges most of my life but I am not closed minded enough to not change if I found something else better for me. Other than the irons and wedges I have a very mixed bag. Reminds me I need to change or modify my signature some. And yes some folks will bite on any hype given to them. P T Barnum said it " there is a sucker born every minute" Yep like you I do not argue with others or take my old man's attitude either which was basically his way or the highway. And I guess to be an old country boy redneck I am very analytical. I do dissect information others give after all I am always seeking fresh knowledge.

You also nailed it on playing golf not golf swing. I do not have the best swing fundamentally wise but I know my swing and game. Mr Palmer summed that up best "swing your own swing". The old timers refereed to it as "golfing your ball"

[Michael C.]

I get what y'all mean with diminishing SS. I haven't played in some time. Now, at 52, I've battled cancer, had 2 hand surgeries and 3 weeks ago had a complete hip replacement. The Drs. say I'm over the hump and should get back to golf soon. Hopefully, I'll have some resemblance of a golf game. Lol. I'll start with chips and pitches and go from there. My SS before was around 100 with driver. PW was 135 yds. That's lofted strong, though.

I will say, RP is right. Being the one in "the chair" at the infusion center tends to change your perspective on things. It'll teach you patience and make you appreciate things a little differently.

 

Anyway, I hope to get back to playing. Maybe move up to the white tees. I'll still play the ProV1x. Lol. I'm a ball snob. Had 2 HIO's and shot 6 under 66 with one. So, why change now. Lol. I have had good rounds with 2-piece surlyn covered rocks, too. I dont judge. Play what you want and however you want. I am a founding member of the OGA. Lmao.

 

On another note, I have friends that I differ opinions with, and yet, they are my best friends and we'd do anything for each other. Rad is the same. That's why we both knew it would be easy to meet and play golf together. Those were 2 great days Mr Radro. Think about them all the time

[BIG STU]

Sean welcome back. You are by no means naive you are smart and practical. On the tee box thing It took me a while but I finally did. I played the back tees up to my mid 50s and a young Pro friend of mine that I had helped some put it in perspective for me. I had played 2 events at age 52 against some younger guys from the back tees with success. But those 2 weeks in succession I had been dead on with my long irons, fairway woods and putter. Anyhow after that I started to struggle from the back tees in everyday play. He was the one who suggested I move to the mid tees. He was right sometimes out of the mouths of babes comes wisdom. I sucked in my pride and moved up and was glad I did. When I turned 60 I RAN to the senior tees and have not looked back.

Yeah I know all about these keyboard warriors LOL back in the day on the CB radio we called them "Radio Rambos"------ If you ever meet me in person you will find I am the same in person as on here> I try to get along with everyone no matter the race , creed , color or religion----- I may not agree with someone's opinion but I will stand beside them and fight to the death if needed for their right to express it

[BIG STU]

Signature changes made--- Nothing really new just went back to my old ways of carrying only 2 wedges and went back to the trusty rusty old 588 dropped the 3 iron and put in another hybrid. I know only 13 clubs but if the wind is up will sneak in one of my 2 irons or a 1 iron

[Conrad1953]

I think about those days as well. Great times indeed. I'm not much of a traveler anymore but when you feel up for it, I will

be driving up to Springfield so we can tee it up again............with our diminished swing speeds, haha.......

[Michael C.]

Sounds good, bro!

 

Gonna take some time to recondition my body. Stamina is down, too. People say I've got a positive attitude. Haha. I say Effingham that. I've just got crap to do.

 

Who knows, if Monte is still doing clinics I might even try that again in 21. That'll give me some time to get it back together.

 

I was thinking after reading Gauchos post. The biggest gains I made in getting better at this game came from playing......a lot. And, changing my outlook from mechanics to a more mental approach. Preshot routine and visualization. Once i could regularly make solid contact it was about trusting my body to do what i was visualizing. Thing is, i may have to learn this game all over. Luckily, I've hit enough balls in my life to figure it out. I'm not one to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Lol. Not afraid to experiment until I find what works.

 

Oh yeah, and Obee recommended a book on mental approach that helped a ton. Still, got to get back to mechanics and seeing where I'm at when it's time.

 

[Conrad1953]

I see a 200 yard 7 iron in your future...............................wait, you hit a 7 iron on that 200 yard par 3......so I guess now it would be a 6 iron.....butter cut

...............or in present day lingo..........a little peeler 6 iron.

[Michael C.]

Lol

My 7i is really a 6i and I dont remember doing that very often. Last time I do remember something like that I was on a par 5. Had 195 with helping breeze. 7i to 8 feet. I made eagle

Lol. I can still see that shot like it was yesterday. Just like the 2 tee shots on 11 I put out of bounds when we played. That hole cost me a round in the mid 70s. Haha.

[tolmij]

Golf related but not golf related. This morning we visited the store from where we have purchased our new bed, the delivery was at least a week away which was not good as it meant another week on the chair which was better than the bed. The store manager was seduced by my fine wit and good looks, as a result the bed will be delivered tomorrow, we have been pushed up the list. This means I hope I will be getting out of bed and able to walk immediately unlike this morning when it took me an hour to loosen up, so GOLF is now definitely back on the cards in the very near future, meaning I can re read all the stuff posted in the Grille and go out with a better mind set and an improved game.

 

I hope. ??‍♂️??‍♂️?‍♂️

[Fellaheen51]

@Michael C. Welcome back. I had no idea. Quite the ordeal you've been though. Positive thoughts that this business is now over for you, and it's onward and upward from this point forward. As you said, don't have time for this stuff, you've got crap to do. "It'll teach you patience and make you appreciate things a little differently." Just play. And enjoy yourself. In the grand scheme of things, playing golf well is down the list of life's priorities. @Sean2. Good to see that you've found your way to the Grille. Always thought you were one of the good guys when reading your commentary elsewhere. And wondered why you had disappeared. As mentioned by others, the Grille is a safe haven compared to the rest of WRX'ville. Where one can post up pretty much anything that's on your mind. Perhaps it's because we're primarily old(er) coots that realize it's not worth the hassle of being confrontation. We log in to be primarily entertained, a diversion, learn a few things along the way. And for the chuckles. Even talk golf stuff periodically. I hope you find your way to these friendly confines periodically. Your contributions would be of value around here. When I posted in the new Members Intro back when I joined, you were the first to respond. Extending a welcome. I remember such things.
.
.
I've become quite exasperated with much of WRX these days. The tenor of the tone. Confrontational opinions. Smart a** attitudes. Really don't have much inclination to take the time and compose commentary and post it. Why bother. Sure, I'll read. But often it's more of a quick perusal. And determine not worth my time to engage. And move on. After all, I have no particular expertise when it comes to golf. Just my own experience as I muddle my way along. That offers nothing in the way of advancing the discussion. Only here really. Where we can bounce ideas and thoughts about without fear of reprisal.
I don't know what my SS is. Why do I need to know and what am I missing? At 68+ years of age, the ball sure as he(ll) doesn't go as far as it once did. I accept it, learn to play at golf differently. Being a decidedly average hacker does have certain liberating qualities. I'm not good enough to get mad with a less then stellar outcome. I have no golf ego. Understand and accept my limitations. Always played the white tees. Will move up a tee box depending on course length (less than 6000 yards in most cases) and degree of difficulty. The idea is to have fun, not beat myself. Never had a lesson, probably help. Maybe. If I practiced, a lot more than I do now, perhaps I'd see improvement. But range time is rather boring after a point. Really not that big a deal and can become an obsessive slippery slope. Thinking swing things cause me to become a basket case. See the shot, hit the shot. It happens every now and again. With enough frequency to keep me coming back.
Truly don't understand the need for "distance" irons. What's to be gained by hitting "X" iron further. I play irons from 150 yards and in. (Have other, more reliable implements from beyond that.) Along that continuum, I have a club that will traverse the distance. If I execute a good swing and strike the ball correctly. Why do I need my 125 yard club go 135? Scratches head. Although Have a number of unsubstantiated opinions, contrived biases and baseless claims when it comes to golf. That I'm entitled too because it's my game and dime, I'll proceed however I choose.
Early morning, coffee fueled, random musings.

[tolmij]

Amen to all that, more sense spoken there than in 500 posts in the rest of this place.?✔️???

[BIG STU]

Man you have been through a lot. I did not realize that. Main thing is you kicked the Big C. On the hip replacement thing I have seen countless ones go through it. One of my buds it did not affect his movement or swing one bit. In fact he said if he knew he would move that good he would have done it 20 years sooner. Others have had to modify their swing some because they did not move like they used to. But if there is a will there is a way. Main thing as I am sure your doctor has cautioned you is to take it easy at first and do not push the issue. One of my buds at 84 years of age is still playing and over the years he has had both hips as well as both knees replaced. I have known him for 20 years or so and have worked with him on his swing after each surgery. Even though I do not consider myself a swing guru or instructor I have helped him. Mostly with him I figured out his limitations and did do some isometric things with his swing. Mostly I got him tuned in from 120 yards in and messed with his mind some. I can remember his last surgery he was frustrated about loss of distance. I told him that was what the red tees were for and now that he hit the driver only 175 yards or so he could not hit it far enough to get into trouble. I also schooled him on the type of courses he should play here in his golden years. No more courses with forced carries like TPC for example. He is coping and doing well with it like I am confident you will do

[BIG STU]

Yep I agree with you the Grille is a safe haven along with the Classic Golf and Golfers Forum----- I will comment sometimes in other areas if I see one of my buds has commented. I will get bored and read sometimes until a particular thread turns into a bashing free for all. Then I drop it like a hot potato. Lately I have been over on the other site I frequent

[BIG STU]

LOL for me these days it may be a butter knife butter cut 4 iron. Naah let me rethink I ain't gonna swing that hard more likely a butter cut 19* hybrid or 19* 5 wood

[Fellaheen51]

@BIG STU. The one course style I really dislike playing are these modernist, forced carry ones. I don't mind difficulty (bunkering, trees, elevation variances, etc.), actually enjoy playing a more challenging course on occasion. But an inordinate number of holes that require target golf is maddening. Played a very nice course last fall with the buds. Excellent greens, well tended fairways, decent value with senior discount. And seemingly was always hitting the ball over water, waste areas, swales to landing zones or the green. It became wearisome. No inclination to ever play there again. The buds tended to agree. Once was enough.
If I'm spraying it around, I'll take my penalty strokes. Hitting askew on approaches into the green lands in a bunker, not a lost ball. But If I'm hitting the ball reasonably straight, allow me to chase it down and repeat. Get all the enjoyment I can handle by playing parkland or links style courses.

[scomac2002]

My favourite courses to play are old school parkland courses. It suits a player of my calibre. Like you said, you don't have to deal with unreasonable forced carries. Trees and rough are more manageable than fescue and waste bunkers lining fairways. I played a links course twice and never really enjoyed it. I have the same issue with inordinate amounts of sand in and along fairways. The truth is that I'm not very good and there's nothing worse than being continually in trouble. The old school parkland courses allow you a bit of relief so that you can get through a round when you're struggling and not end up hating the game.