Actual distance of LPGA courses

[dhc1]

I went back and read the first page, and my question is: what possible difference does it make? Lexi Thompson just won the last tournament at -20. If it was possible to do, I would give any non-pro on this board a spot 100 yds from the green, with the same pins, green conditions etc. and bet a hundred bucks that her score would not be duplicated.

 

Farmer,

 

If you read the first page, you saw exactly why this thread was started: we are trying to narrow down whether the back end of the LPGA is a -2 or closer to par as compared to male amateurs. The difference is solely in the slope and rating as they play course that aren't significantly different than regular play (at least for high end private courses). You are welcome to think that's stupid: you'd be best just ignoring the thread in that case.

 

Are you saying that no one on this board can average a 67 over four rounds while starting 100 yards away?

[farmer]

So this is another run at how good LPGA players are compared to male ams. My premise was poorly worded. I give you your drive and it's 100 yds out. How many non-pros on this forum will make 20 birdies in 72 holes? Same hole locations, same green conditions, same everything. Lexi probably made more than 20 birdies, I imagine she made a few (very few) bogies.

[Argonne69]

I'm at the practice green at the Volvik. I'll post distances as I make my way at the course, updating this post.

 

10th: 386

11th: 380

12th: 180

13th: 355

14th: 460

15th: 400

16th: 170

17th: 370

18th: 530

1st: 378

2nd: 400

3rd: 162

4th: 520

5th: 396

6th: 497

7th: 200

8th: 357

9th: 394

 

[ausgolfgirl]

Ill save you the walk :)

 

 

 

LPGA VOLVIK CHAMPIONSHIP – PAR 72 – 6734 YARDS

 

http://volviklpga.com/tpcc/

[Argonne69]

If comparing the published length w the act length.

[Shilgy]

I'm at the practice green at the Volvik. I'll post distances as I make my way at the course, updating this post.

 

10th: 386

11th: 380

12th: 180

13th: 355

14th: 460

15th: 400

16th: 170

17th: 370

18th: 530

1st: 378

2nd: 400

3rd: 162

4th: 520

5th:

6th:

7th:

8th:

9th:

What are you using? Approximate tee markers? Sky Caddie? Phone app?

[tatertot]

So the back 9 measured 3,231 ... on the card it's 3,339.

 

Did you take doglegs into account? Is your 3,231 as the crow flies, or down the center of fairways?

 

Either way, pretty close.

[Argonne69]

So the back 9 measured 3,231 ... on the card it's 3,339.

 

Did you take doglegs into account? Is your 3,231 as the crow flies, or down the center of fairways?

 

Either way, pretty close.

 

I'm using a Skycaddie, so it's to the preferred landing area, a not as they crow flies.

[ThinkingPlus]

So total is 6535 yards for today's round. A little short of the stated length, but not unreasonable. A good distance with firm fairways. What are the conditions like?

[North Texas]

So total is 6535 yards for today's round. A little short of the stated length, but not unreasonable. A good distance with firm fairways. What are the conditions like?

 

For a little perspective, 6535 for the women is about the equivalent of 7700 for men.

[ThinkingPlus]

So total is 6535 yards for today's round. A little short of the stated length, but not unreasonable. A good distance with firm fairways. What are the conditions like?

 

For a little perspective, 6535 for the women is about the equivalent of 7700 for men.

 

I understand. I am in complete agreement with you that the men are wimps. :taunt: Just sayin. LOL! BTW, around 6500 is where I draw the line for roughly sea level play. Longer than that just gets too tough for me. I will push it out to 6800 - 6900 at elevation before I cry uncle (have played over 7000, but I am getting too old for that).

[Argonne69]

Conditions were wet. It was lift, clean and place. They weren't getting much rollout. In Gee appeared to average 240 off the tee today.

 

It appears that the yardage displayed on the signs behind the tee markers were the distances to the signs themselves. I more or less was measuring 5 to 10 yards less than the sign. I saw at least 12 distance markers on the tee boxes, and they jived with my readings.

 

Keep in mind that the distances are measured to the center of the greens. With some pins up, and some back, the total should be close to actual.

[Shilgy]

Conditions were wet. It was lift, clean and place. They weren't getting much rollout. In Gee appeared to average 240 off the tee today.

 

It appears that the yardage displayed on the signs behind the tee markers were the distances to the signs themselves. I more or less was measuring 5 to 10 yards less than the sign. I saw at least 12 distance markers on the tee boxes, and they jived with my readings.

 

Keep in mind that the distances are measured to the center of the greens. With some pins up, and some back, the total should be close to actual.

The signs are usually at the back of the box, beyond the permanent yardage tee markers for the hole.

[dhc1]

First, thanks to Argonne69 for the data!

• The total yardage was 6,535 yards or about 200 yards shorter than the listed 6,734.
  
• The yardage matches the club's white tees at 6,545 yard. They are rated 71.9/131 (par 72)
  
• The cut line was even par and the 100th player was at +1.
  
• This indicates that to make the cut, one would need to be the equivalent of a +2/3 male amateur (assuming that the average score is 2/3 above handicap)- in line with Shilgy's guesstimate.
  

Hopefully, we can get a few more data points.

[Shilgy]

We also know that the 6535 is about the equivalent of 7581 for the mens tour. However in general the ladies courses are not set up as penal nor as fast as the mens. So longer but easier?

 

And to be fair we know the advertised yardage was 6734. Argonne went one day so the course may have played a bit longer or shorter the other days.

 

PS the wrx 4 still has no chance. :)

[dhc1]

So this is another run at how good LPGA players are compared to male ams. My premise was poorly worded. I give you your drive and it's 100 yds out. How many non-pros on this forum will make 20 birdies in 72 holes? Same hole locations, same green conditions, same everything. Lexi probably made more than 20 birdies, I imagine she made a few (very few) bogies.

 

For S***s and giggles, I think that a lot of players would shoot 5 under if you gave them 100 yards out in the fairway on every hole. I'm even assuming you mean hitting the 2nd shot from 200 yards on par 5 - if it's 100 yards lying one, I'd back up the truck. Even a 4 handicap (ducks.......).

 

My guess is that the shots gained from those drives (100% fairways hit at decent distance) would be near double digits and not even a WRX 4 can manage that.

[Argonne69]

Conditions were wet. It was lift, clean and place. They weren't getting much rollout. In Gee appeared to average 240 off the tee today.

 

It appears that the yardage displayed on the signs behind the tee markers were the distances to the signs themselves. I more or less was measuring 5 to 10 yards less than the sign. I saw at least 12 distance markers on the tee boxes, and they jived with my readings.

 

Keep in mind that the distances are measured to the center of the greens. With some pins up, and some back, the total should be close to actual.

The signs are usually at the back of the box, beyond the permanent yardage tee markers for the hole.

 

Right. I'm fairly confident that they don't move the signs, so the yardage on them represent the maximum yardage for the course. The closest tees were probably 5 yards in front of the signs on Friday, so you're looking at a minimum of 90 yards off the max distance.

 

It seems that they like to move up at least one hole on the weekend, but otherwise the course plays close to the advertised distance. I was a bit surprised that they didn't have a short(ish) par 3. It was a minimum of a 6 iron on Friday. Only one par 5 was easily reachable in two (14th), but it was a shallow green with plenty of bunkering.

 

As noted earlier, In Gee, Stacy, and Anna appeared to be averaging ~10 yards less then their season average, which was mainly attributable to the wet conditions.

[North Texas]

We also know that the 6535 is about the equivalent of 7581 for the mens tour. However in general the ladies courses are not set up as penal nor as fast as the mens. So longer but easier?

 

And to be fair we know the advertised yardage was 6734. Argonne went one day so the course may have played a bit longer or shorter the other days.

 

PS the wrx 4 still has no chance. :)

 

Here's a good article using some Trackman numbers from a study Andrew Rice did comparing how far the PGA and LPGA pros hit the ball. Going by this I was little off on my numbers in post #190 above and your numbers are little off as well.

 

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2010/10/trackman-definitive-answers-at-impact-and-more

 

Basically, this study show that the women hit the ball about 82% as far as the men. Based on that, 6535 yards for the women is about the equivalent of 7970 yards for the men. So, hell yes they set the course up easier for women than men. They have to because they play a yardage that is much longer than men comparatively speaking.

 

Using the above numbers, if the men play a 7300 yard course, the equivalent yardage for ladies would not even be 6000 yards.

[Shilgy]

We also know that the 6535 is about the equivalent of 7581 for the mens tour. However in general the ladies courses are not set up as penal nor as fast as the mens. So longer but easier?

 

And to be fair we know the advertised yardage was 6734. Argonne went one day so the course may have played a bit longer or shorter the other days.

 

PS the wrx 4 still has no chance. :)

 

Here's a good article using some Trackman numbers from a study Andrew Rice did comparing how far the PGA and LPGA pros hit the ball. Going by this I was little off on my numbers in post #190 above and your numbers are little off as well.

 

http://www.andrewric...impact-and-more

 

Basically, this study show that the women hit the ball about 82% as far as the men. Based on that, 6535 yards for the women is about the equivalent of 7970 yards for the men. So, hell yes they set the course up easier for women than men. They have to because they play a yardage that is much longer than men comparatively speaking.

 

Using the above numbers, if the men play a 7300 yard course, the equivalent yardage for ladies would not even be 6000 yards.

I think the ladies have gained a few yards since then. Another case of "wish they had Shotlink". I am using 250 for the lady pros and 290 for the men. Given that 77 of 151 ladies are at that or above and 104 of the 206 men are at or above it is a good enough yardstick.

[dhc1]

I think the trackman stats are all dated: according to this the average height for PGA driver is under 100 yards feet and even less for irons. They were just mentioning this weekend at D&D that it's significantly lower than what they actually hit (which is well above 100 feet)

 

the numbers they have for 2017 trackman are exactly equal to the 2014 ones. Highly doubtful

[North Texas]

We also know that the 6535 is about the equivalent of 7581 for the mens tour. However in general the ladies courses are not set up as penal nor as fast as the mens. So longer but easier?

 

And to be fair we know the advertised yardage was 6734. Argonne went one day so the course may have played a bit longer or shorter the other days.

 

PS the wrx 4 still has no chance. :)

 

Here's a good article using some Trackman numbers from a study Andrew Rice did comparing how far the PGA and LPGA pros hit the ball. Going by this I was little off on my numbers in post #190 above and your numbers are little off as well.

 

http://www.andrewric...impact-and-more

 

Basically, this study show that the women hit the ball about 82% as far as the men. Based on that, 6535 yards for the women is about the equivalent of 7970 yards for the men. So, hell yes they set the course up easier for women than men. They have to because they play a yardage that is much longer than men comparatively speaking.

 

Using the above numbers, if the men play a 7300 yard course, the equivalent yardage for ladies would not even be 6000 yards.

I think the ladies have gained a few yards since then. Another case of "wish they had Shotlink". I am using 250 for the lady pros and 290 for the men. Given that 77 of 151 ladies are at that or above and 104 of the 206 men are at or above it is a good enough yardstick.

 

I'll buy that. About 86% instead of 82%

 

7700 for men equals 6622 for women.

7500 equals 6450.

7300 equals 6278.

[Shilgy]

I think the trackman stats are all dated: according to this the average height for PGA driver is under 100 yards and even less for irons. They were just mentioning this weekend at D&D that it's significantly lower than what they actually hit.

 

the numbers they have for 2017 trackman are exactly equal to the 2014 ones. Highly doubtful

/? While I would agree the average height is under 100 yards it is so much under that as to not be useful. :) I am thinking you meant feet. Some, like Jason Day hit shots very high. But not 100 yards high with driver.

[North Texas]

I think the trackman stats are all dated: according to this the average height for PGA driver is under 100 yards and even less for irons. They were just mentioning this weekend at D&D that it's significantly lower than what they actually hit.

 

the numbers they have for 2017 trackman are exactly equal to the 2014 ones. Highly doubtful

/? While I would agree the average height is under 100 yards it is so much under that as to not be useful. :) I am thinking you meant feet. Some, like Jason Day hit shots very high. But not 100 yards high with driver.

 

Just as aside to this discussion, what I found really interesting that both the men and women pretty much hit all their clubs from the driver to the pitching wedge the same heighth.

[Shilgy]

I think the trackman stats are all dated: according to this the average height for PGA driver is under 100 yards and even less for irons. They were just mentioning this weekend at D&D that it's significantly lower than what they actually hit.

 

the numbers they have for 2017 trackman are exactly equal to the 2014 ones. Highly doubtful

/? While I would agree the average height is under 100 yards it is so much under that as to not be useful. :) I am thinking you meant feet. Some, like Jason Day hit shots very high. But not 100 yards high with driver.

 

Just as aside to this discussion, what I found really interesting that both the men and women pretty much hit all their clubs from the driver to the pitching wedge the same heighth.

I was about to post that the men are about 20% higher but now I think you are referring to each player? IMO all of us do the same but it appears to be higher on shorter shots because the peak is much closer to us.

[finleysg]

I understand. I am in complete agreement with you that the men are wimps. :taunt: Just sayin. LOL! BTW, around 6500 is where I draw the line for roughly sea level play. Longer than that just gets too tough for me. I will push it out to 6800 - 6900 at elevation before I cry uncle (have played over 7000, but I am getting too old for that).

 

I can relate to that. We get pushed back to 6800 - 7000 for our club championship, and I really start to feel my age. Wouldn't it be nice to play at about 5000-7000 feet all the time? My two rounds in Colorado last year were so much fun. Felt like a kid again.

[dhc1]

No actual distances for last week's event in NJ.

 

Stated length: 6,177 yards

Rating/Slope (par 71):

• 69.5/120 @ 6,247 yards
  
• 68.4/117 @ 6,011 yards
  
• I'd personally assume somewhere between the two at 69.0/119 given that they usually play less than the stated yardage (which is at the back of each teebox as we've seen posted by Argonne)
  
• Seems low to me but I haven't played the course (love Hidden Creek nearby, when it's in good shape)
  

Cutline was 146 or 73 per round, which is about 3.5 to 4 strokes over course rating for a male; 100th player was 148 or 74 per round. This would indicate that the lower end LPGA is about a scratch to a 2.

[golfer07840]

No actual distances for last week's event in NJ.

 

Stated length: 6,177 yards

Rating/Slope (par 71):

• 69.5/120 @ 6,247 yards
  
• 68.4/117 @ 6,011 yards
  
• I'd personally assume somewhere between the two at 69.0/119 given that they usually play less than the stated yardage (which is at the back of each teebox as we've seen posted by Argonne)
  
• Seems low to me but I haven't played the course (love Hidden Creek nearby, when it's in good shape)
  

Cutline was 146 or 73 per round, which is about 3.5 to 4 strokes over course rating for a male; 100th player was 148 or 74 per round. This would indicate that the lower end LPGA is about a scratch to a 2.

Keep in mind, the course they played last week is a Donald Ross from I think 1914

 

They weren't making 7,400 yard courses then.

[deadsolid...shank]

Did anybody happen to read Mixxedbag's comment on page two of the Manulife thread?

[North Texas]

Did anybody happen to read Mixxedbag's comment on page two of the Manulife thread?

 

I'll save people the trouble from having to go find it.

 

I'm a member there, and its really not easy at all....when the wind is blowing. Which it normally is. They had dome-like conditions the Thursday, greens are super quick right now too. Mind you, their tee decks are a lot shorter than the 6600 stated. All less than the normal blue decks, which is 64 and change. This course can be set up to 7800, but the setup indicates to me that the LPGA wants this to be a birdie fest, as it always has been.

[dhc1]

Any thoughts as to why the cut line was higher at Seaview vs. Volvik, despite the fact that it's a significantly easier course?