Actual distance of LPGA courses

[North Texas]

The USGA reports course statistics for each day of the US Opens. The yardage listed for the US Women's Open tees at CordeValle is 6762. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 6783, 6694, 6715 and 6718. The listed yardage for the 2016 US Open tees at Oakmont is 7254. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 7274, 7179, 7170 and 7229.

 

So for both men and women the "typical" set up is a playing yardage of slightly under the yardage for the US Open tees. I assume this is the case for other PGA and LPGA tournaments.

 

To back up my point about the ladies playing a longer course compared to men, look at the median driving distance average for the top 50 LPGA and PGA players, or even top 100, and you will find that the LPGA player drives the ball about 87% as far as the PGA player.

 

Now, look at the above yardage figures for the US Opens for each. The women played a course that averaged 6728 while the men played a course that averaged 7213 which means that the women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played. Using the 87% ratio, the women should have been playing at an average of 6275. That's a 453 yard difference in what they actually played. About 25 yards per hole.

[hdr_ric]

The USGA reports course statistics for each day of the US Opens. The yardage listed for the US Women's Open tees at CordeValle is 6762. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 6783, 6694, 6715 and 6718. The listed yardage for the 2016 US Open tees at Oakmont is 7254. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 7274, 7179, 7170 and 7229.

 

So for both men and women the "typical" set up is a playing yardage of slightly under the yardage for the US Open tees. I assume this is the case for other PGA and LPGA tournaments.

 

To back up my point about the ladies playing a longer course compared to men, look at the median driving distance average for the top 50 LPGA and PGA players, or even top 100, and you will find that the LPGA player drives the ball about 87% as far as the PGA player.

 

Now, look at the above yardage figures for the US Opens for each. The women played a course that averaged 6728 while the men played a course that averaged 7213 which means that the women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played. Using the 87% ratio, the women should have been playing at an average of 6275. That's a 453 yard difference in what they actually played. About 25 yards per hole.

 

I agree that the shorter ladies have way less wedges in their hands than the pga tour guys, but you are cherry picking yardages. Most of LPGA courses are sub 6500.

 

That Cordevall course for the ladies open was a PAR 72.

 

The mens US open is a PAR 70.

 

I see what you are trying to do but that's not an apples to apples comparison.

[dhc1]

The USGA reports course statistics for each day of the US Opens. The yardage listed for the US Women's Open tees at CordeValle is 6762. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 6783, 6694, 6715 and 6718. The listed yardage for the 2016 US Open tees at Oakmont is 7254. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 7274, 7179, 7170 and 7229.

 

So for both men and women the "typical" set up is a playing yardage of slightly under the yardage for the US Open tees. I assume this is the case for other PGA and LPGA tournaments.

 

Thanks for this adam - it's really helpful. Could you please provide a link so I can do some analysis?

 

Never mind, Adam. I found it. Thanks for informing me

[dhc1]

Not sure what the point of a thread like this is other than a bunch of guys trying to say the lpga is not that good. I know in Phoenix they played the old Ping event at Moon Valley at 6600. Currently at Wildfire it is about the same. For instance the second hole is a 550 yard par five. ALWAYS played from that tee, never up, and a few of the women reach in two.

 

LOL. Does the answer below suit your need for what the point is, Shilgy? Or does it fall under your "bunch of guys trying to say the lpga is not that good?"

 

Let's say your suspicions could somehow be confirmed. They claim 6450, but they're really playing from 6280. Now what?

 

 

Kymar,

 

I think we'd have a factual basis on which tee box most amateurs should play from as LPGA players swing speed is pretty close to amateurs and we'd finally put to rest the whole 4 handicap vs. LPGA players, which IMO is just ludicrous but there is a corresponding level. I think the basic bid/ask spread is +2 to scratch, which is quite impressive at either end IMO.

[North Texas]

The USGA reports course statistics for each day of the US Opens. The yardage listed for the US Women's Open tees at CordeValle is 6762. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 6783, 6694, 6715 and 6718. The listed yardage for the 2016 US Open tees at Oakmont is 7254. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 7274, 7179, 7170 and 7229.

 

So for both men and women the "typical" set up is a playing yardage of slightly under the yardage for the US Open tees. I assume this is the case for other PGA and LPGA tournaments.

 

To back up my point about the ladies playing a longer course compared to men, look at the median driving distance average for the top 50 LPGA and PGA players, or even top 100, and you will find that the LPGA player drives the ball about 87% as far as the PGA player.

 

Now, look at the above yardage figures for the US Opens for each. The women played a course that averaged 6728 while the men played a course that averaged 7213 which means that the women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played. Using the 87% ratio, the women should have been playing at an average of 6275. That's a 453 yard difference in what they actually played. About 25 yards per hole.

 

I agree that the shorter ladies have way less wedges in their hands than the pga tour guys, but you are cherry picking yardages. Most of LPGA courses are sub 6500.

 

That Cordevall course for the ladies open was a PAR 72.

 

The mens US open is a PAR 70.

 

I see what you are trying to do but that's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

Fine. I'll be interested to see your apples to apples comparison that involves facts or statistics and not opinion.

 

And most LPGA courses should be sub 6500.

[BrianB]

The USGA reports course statistics for each day of the US Opens. The yardage listed for the US Women's Open tees at CordeValle is 6762. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 6783, 6694, 6715 and 6718. The listed yardage for the 2016 US Open tees at Oakmont is 7254. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 7274, 7179, 7170 and 7229.

 

So for both men and women the "typical" set up is a playing yardage of slightly under the yardage for the US Open tees. I assume this is the case for other PGA and LPGA tournaments.

 

To back up my point about the ladies playing a longer course compared to men, look at the median driving distance average for the top 50 LPGA and PGA players, or even top 100, and you will find that the LPGA player drives the ball about 87% as far as the PGA player.

 

Now, look at the above yardage figures for the US Opens for each. The women played a course that averaged 6728 while the men played a course that averaged 7213 which means that the women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played. Using the 87% ratio, the women should have been playing at an average of 6275. That's a 453 yard difference in what they actually played. About 25 yards per hole.

 

I agree that the shorter ladies have way less wedges in their hands than the pga tour guys, but you are cherry picking yardages. Most of LPGA courses are sub 6500.

 

That Cordevall course for the ladies open was a PAR 72.

 

The mens US open is a PAR 70.

 

I see what you are trying to do but that's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

Fine. I'll be interested to see your apples to apples comparison that involves facts or statistics and not opinion.

 

And most LPGA courses should be sub 6500.

 

More are over 6500 than under. But the average is right around there.

[North Texas]

The USGA reports course statistics for each day of the US Opens. The yardage listed for the US Women's Open tees at CordeValle is 6762. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 6783, 6694, 6715 and 6718. The listed yardage for the 2016 US Open tees at Oakmont is 7254. USGA reported the playing yardages to be 7274, 7179, 7170 and 7229.

 

So for both men and women the "typical" set up is a playing yardage of slightly under the yardage for the US Open tees. I assume this is the case for other PGA and LPGA tournaments.

 

To back up my point about the ladies playing a longer course compared to men, look at the median driving distance average for the top 50 LPGA and PGA players, or even top 100, and you will find that the LPGA player drives the ball about 87% as far as the PGA player.

 

Now, look at the above yardage figures for the US Opens for each. The women played a course that averaged 6728 while the men played a course that averaged 7213 which means that the women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played. Using the 87% ratio, the women should have been playing at an average of 6275. That's a 453 yard difference in what they actually played. About 25 yards per hole.

 

I agree that the shorter ladies have way less wedges in their hands than the pga tour guys, but you are cherry picking yardages. Most of LPGA courses are sub 6500.

 

That Cordevall course for the ladies open was a PAR 72.

 

The mens US open is a PAR 70.

 

I see what you are trying to do but that's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

Fine. I'll be interested to see your apples to apples comparison that involves facts or statistics and not opinion.

 

And most LPGA courses should be sub 6500.

 

More are over 6500 than under. But the average is right around there.

 

If 6500 is the average, then the PGA should be playing 7500 yard courses.

[wobgon]

So are people saying the courses the LGPA plays are too long?

[dhc1]

So are people saying the courses the LGPA plays are to long?

 

I think 6750 for the US open is quite long.....certainly long enough for me

[North Texas]

So are people saying the courses the LGPA plays are too long?

 

If the LPGA plays courses that are more than 87% longer than the PGA plays, then the answer is absolutely yes.

 

The poster who provided the yardages for last year's women's and men's US Open gave an excellent example. The women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played.

 

Of course, this is all predicated on the belief that in order to be fair to the women, they should be hitting the same club to the green that men hit. Unfortunately that's a belief that I'm sure is not shared by a lot of men. Or maybe it's just beyond their comprehension.

[hdr_ric]

So are people saying the courses the LGPA plays are too long?

 

If the LPGA plays courses that are more than 87% longer than the PGA plays, then the answer is absolutely yes.

 

The poster who provided the yardages for last year's women's and men's US Open gave an excellent example. The women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played.

 

Of course, this is all predicated on the belief that in order to be fair to the women, they should be hitting the same club to the green that men hit. Unfortunately that's a belief that I'm sure is not shared by a lot of men. Or maybe it's just beyond their comprehension.

 

You don't get it, the ladies played a par 72. The men played a par 70. If you want to do your math exercise, you need to add ~400 to the mens course or subtract it from the ladies to account for the two extra par 5s.

 

 

However, your point is still correct. The pro men always have shorter clubs into greens than anyone else (ladies, amateurs, hackers, etc) bc they hit the ball SO much farther than everyone else. Frankly, they are longer off the tee compared to the ladies than 87% you are stating. its about 40-50 yards.

[wobgon]

So are people saying the courses the LGPA plays are too long?

 

If the LPGA plays courses that are more than 87% longer than the PGA plays, then the answer is absolutely yes.

 

The poster who provided the yardages for last year's women's and men's US Open gave an excellent example. The women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played.

 

Of course, this is all predicated on the belief that in order to be fair to the women, they should be hitting the same club to the green that men hit. Unfortunately that's a belief that I'm sure is not shared by a lot of men. Or maybe it's just beyond their comprehension.

I understand all that, but are you saying you think they should play shorter courses.......I really do understand your comparisons, but i would think as an lpga fan that the lpga should stand on it's own and the courses the men's tour plays should have no bearing on the courses the women play.....

[nosil]

At the Kingsmill championship they play a mixture of tee boxes (gold and blue) for a total around 6500.

[Shilgy]

So are people saying the courses the LGPA plays are too long?

 

If the LPGA plays courses that are more than 87% longer than the PGA plays, then the answer is absolutely yes.

 

The poster who provided the yardages for last year's women's and men's US Open gave an excellent example. The women played a course that was 93% as long as the men played.

 

Of course, this is all predicated on the belief that in order to be fair to the women, they should be hitting the same club to the green that men hit. Unfortunately that's a belief that I'm sure is not shared by a lot of men. Or maybe it's just beyond their comprehension.

 

You don't get it, the ladies played a par 72. The men played a par 70. If you want to do your math exercise, you need to add ~400 to the mens course or subtract it from the ladies to account for the two extra par 5s.

 

 

However, your point is still correct. The pro men always have shorter clubs into greens than anyone else (ladies, amateurs, hackers, etc) bc they hit the ball SO much farther than everyone else. Frankly, they are longer off the tee compared to the ladies than 87% you are stating. its about 40-50 yards.

I would add 200,not 400. Likely the par 70 lost two par 5's. Replaced with two long past 4's. So add 100 to each of those two holes. All else stays the same.

[ThinkingPlus]

So another way to look at the comparison everyone is trying to make would be to compare course rating/slope for LPGA events vs PGA events. If you compare the men's rating for PGA to women's rating you will find that the women play cores about a stroke or two more difficult (assuming you believe the usga rating system - a different topic). I try and play courses between 6200 and 6700 yards (sea level). Once I do higher math to get a women's rating (most tees I play are never rated for women - pet peeve) I regularly play courses rated 76 - 78 with slopes greater than 135. On average the rating delta between men and women from identical tees is 5 - 7.

[Texsport]

A few points

 

Many PGA tournaments are played from tees only played in these tournaments - that means any listed course rating is incorrect for a PGA event. The courses aren't rated from the pro tees (which aren't even always mowed regularly on courses using them - Medinah for instance - which plays something like 7700 yes if all the pro tees are used)

 

LPGA used tees are rated.

 

Additionally, many back pin positions are used in PGA events, while course rankings are to the center of greens - another reason using ratings is inaccurate. How many course use the back pin positions? Generally, on weekends during most play, the pins are in the front or middle to soften the courses.

 

In fact, when you watch an LPGA tournament, you rarely see a back pin position used!

 

Another factor not mentioned is that LPGA tournaments almost never have any fairway bunkers and have almost no rough.Those two facts will radically alter how hard any pro tries to hit a tee shot!

 

Implying that the ladies play harder courses than the men should be modified possibly, to indicate that the courses are harder for the ladies because of expected less physical ability.

 

An earlier poster indicated the driving distance between LPGA and PGA pros is 40-50 yards.

 

I completely disagree

 

If you put the 2 best LPGA players up against the 2 best PGA pros - Inbee Park and Lydia Ko vs Dustin Johnson and Rory McIlroy for instance -

 

The ladies drive it 247 - 250 yds vs the men hitting it 310-320 yds.(and often longer)

 

That's more like 60-70 yds! On a 400 yd hole the ladies hit a 7-iron to the green and the men hit a partial SW.

 

It's just unfair and inaccurate to compare the golf played on the 2 tours. It's equally inaccurate to compare the abilities of a handicap amateur - male or female - with an LPGA or PGA Tour pro.

 

Texsport

[ThinkingPlus]

A few points

 

Many PGA tournaments are played from tees only played in these tournaments - that means any listed course rating is incorrect for a PGA event. The courses aren't rated from the pro tees (which aren't even always mowed regularly on courses using them - Medinah for instance - which plays something like 7700 yes if all the pro tees are used)

 

LPGA used tees are rated.

 

Additionally, many back pin positions are used in PGA events, while course rankings are to the center of greens - another reason using ratings is inaccurate. How many course use the back pin positions? Generally, on weekends during most play, the pins are in the front or middle to soften the courses.

 

In fact, when you watch an LPGA tournament, you rarely see a back pin position used!

 

Another factor not mentioned is that LPGA tournaments almost never have any fairway bunkers and have almost no rough.Those two facts will radically alter how hard any pro tries to hit a tee shot!

 

Implying that the ladies play harder courses than the men should be modified possibly, to indicate that the courses are harder for the ladies because of expected less physical ability.

 

An earlier poster indicated the driving distance between LPGA and PGA pros is 40-50 yards.

 

I completely disagree

 

If you put the 2 best LPGA players up against the 2 best PGA pros - Inbee Park and Lydia Ko vs Dustin Johnson and Rory McIlroy for instance -

 

The ladies drive it 247 - 250 yds vs the men hitting it 310-320 yds.(and often longer)

 

That's more like 60-70 yds! On a 400 yd hole the ladies hit a 7-iron to the green and the men hit a partial SW.

 

It's just unfair and inaccurate to compare the golf played on the 2 tours. It's equally inaccurate to compare the abilities of a handicap amateur - male or female - with an LPGA or PGA Tour pro.

 

Texsport

 

Actually most of the time the tees played by the LPGA are not rated for women so you would have to use the usga procedure for establishing a rating for unrated tees. You could do the same for the unrated PGA tour tees. Changing tee positions or pin positions simply changes the yardage (unless compensating) which once again will slightly adjust the rating in a calculable way.

[youngwaldo]

I used to work at a course that held the Shop Rite classic and they teed mostly in front of the men's member tees which measures 6500. So the LPGA was playing close to 6300. One common thread with all LPGA players were they always hit it straight and had an amazing short game.

 

Wk.

[Shilgy]

A few points

 

Many PGA tournaments are played from tees only played in these tournaments - that means any listed course rating is incorrect for a PGA event. The courses aren't rated from the pro tees (which aren't even always mowed regularly on courses using them - Medinah for instance - which plays something like 7700 yes if all the pro tees are used)

 

LPGA used tees are rated.

 

Additionally, many back pin positions are used in PGA events, while course rankings are to the center of greens - another reason using ratings is inaccurate. How many course use the back pin positions? Generally, on weekends during most play, the pins are in the front or middle to soften the courses.

 

In fact, when you watch an LPGA tournament, you rarely see a back pin position used!

 

Another factor not mentioned is that LPGA tournaments almost never have any fairway bunkers and have almost no rough.Those two facts will radically alter how hard any pro tries to hit a tee shot!

 

Implying that the ladies play harder courses than the men should be modified possibly, to indicate that the courses are harder for the ladies because of expected less physical ability.

 

An earlier poster indicated the driving distance between LPGA and PGA pros is 40-50 yards.

 

I completely disagree

 

If you put the 2 best LPGA players up against the 2 best PGA pros - Inbee Park and Lydia Ko vs Dustin Johnson and Rory McIlroy for instance -

 

The ladies drive it 247 - 250 yds vs the men hitting it 310-320 yds.(and often longer)

 

That's more like 60-70 yds! On a 400 yd hole the ladies hit a 7-iron to the green and the men hit a partial SW.

 

It's just unfair and inaccurate to compare the golf played on the 2 tours. It's equally inaccurate to compare the abilities of a handicap amateur - male or female - with an LPGA or PGA Tour pro.

 

Texsport

Sorry but you are way off. #2 women is Ariya. She averaged 263 last year, without using driver. That's 40 or so yards behind men's #2. Why not compare world #5 on each tour? Lexi only averages about 21 less than Spieth. The part about the LPGA never using back pins is so absurd it does not even really merit discussion. You're correct however on your 400 yard hole example. Guys it's driver wedge. Ladies it is likely driver and 7-9 iron. Handful would be hitting wedge. Does that make the men better or just stronger and longer?

So have said before comparing the two tours is futile though. It always comes off as denigrating the women's game when in reality they would kick the a** of most posters on wrx. We are better off pretending out is a different game, like the NBA versus WNBA. Marvel at what the women shoot on courses that are RELATIVELY longer for them then the men play.

[Edaw68]

Not sure if this helps the bitter argument that this thread is about to devolve into, but my home course is a Pac12 college course. When they do Pac 12 women's tournaments there, it's around 6300 to 6400 yards, a mixture of tees. And even when I was down to under a 4 handicap there, I would get smoked by most of the players. I might have made a weak schools non traveling team. Maybe. I'm not willing to put money on that.

[Texsport]

The OP has obviously never played much golf with LPGA and PGA Tour pros.

 

Living in the Houston area, I have had many opportunities.

 

It's much more than the obvious distance differences!

 

It's spin rate, angle of descent, proximity to the pins on approach shots, short games, firmness of greens, green speeds, severity of greens,and most of all - putting.

 

Put LPGA players on the most severe PGA courses and they would not perform nearly to the levels of the PGA players.

 

The 2014 U S Opens at Pinehurst - USGA listed men's course at 7562 yds, ladies at 6649 yds. (though on day 1 LPGA played it at 6290 and only 2 players broke par)

 

Ignoring weather conditions ----Kaymer won with -9/ Wei won with -2.

 

But, to each his own opinions.

 

Texsport

 

P S At the 2014 Opens - Lexi Thompson was the longest LPGA player - she would rank #182 on the PGA Tour. Paul Goydos was the shortest PGA Tour player(#191) and he would rank #7 on the LPGA Tour.

[Shilgy]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

[wobgon]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

[KBong]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

Illiteracy reading the title of this thread? :swoon: :taunt:

[Shilgy]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

No idea. Some are trying to figure out the lady pros women's handicap now as well. Heavy sigh....

[Shilgy]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

No idea. Some are trying to figure out the lady pros women's handicap now as well. Heavy sigh....

[deadsolid...shank]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

No idea. Some are trying to figure out the lady pros women's handicap now as well. Heavy sigh....

 

No one in this thread (that I can tell) is dissing on the women. Or saying they aren't great players.

 

The question is simply the yardages they are playing. I've seen it for years when they show overhead shots of courses with multiple tee boxes. They list a yardage for a tee box but are playing one further up. It's not to take away from how good they are, most of us know we'd get waxed by them. Just questioning why the LPGA is listing yardages as longer than they are really playing. Despite some denials, there appear to be too many accounts of people familiar with the courses that have seen this happen to discount it having some merit.

 

And it's got nothing to do with the other thread.

[ThinkingPlus]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

No idea. Some are trying to figure out the lady pros women's handicap now as well. Heavy sigh....

 

No one in this thread (that I can tell) is dissing on the women. Or saying they aren't great players.

 

The question is simply the yardages they are playing. I've seen it for years when they show overhead shots of courses with multiple tee boxes. They list a yardage for a tee box but are playing one further up. It's not to take away from how good they are, most of us know we'd get waxed by them. Just questioning why the LPGA is listing yardages as longer than they are really playing. Despite some denials, there appear to be too many accounts of people familiar with the courses that have seen this happen to discount it having some merit.

 

And it's got nothing to do with the other thread.

 

It is annoying when they don't get the yardages correct or don't provide them at all. I like to compare what club I would hit vs. what they hit. I have no illusions about matching their consistency, but occasionally having a similar club in hand is encouraging.

[deadsolid...shank]

Tex, no one at all has compared the women and men pros and said they are anywhere near the same. We have been comparing to -4 to scratch. Yes the male pros are better and longer than the women. That has not been the discussion.

How did that thread get into this thread.

No idea. Some are trying to figure out the lady pros women's handicap now as well. Heavy sigh....

 

No one in this thread (that I can tell) is dissing on the women. Or saying they aren't great players.

 

The question is simply the yardages they are playing. I've seen it for years when they show overhead shots of courses with multiple tee boxes. They list a yardage for a tee box but are playing one further up. It's not to take away from how good they are, most of us know we'd get waxed by them. Just questioning why the LPGA is listing yardages as longer than they are really playing. Despite some denials, there appear to be too many accounts of people familiar with the courses that have seen this happen to discount it having some merit.

 

And it's got nothing to do with the other thread.

 

It is annoying when they don't get the yardages correct or don't provide them at all. I like to compare what club I would hit vs. what they hit. I have no illusions about matching their consistency, but occasionally having a similar club in hand is encouraging.

 

To me, that is the biggest arguement saying they don't misrepresent yardages. What does it gain them? Does it really matter how far?

 

But I've seen it, as others have. So there must be a reason.

[North Texas]

So guys on this board are questioning the yardages the the LPGA plays and seem to think that they are playing shorter courses than what is listed.

 

I have a newsflash for you. Don't think for a minute that it doesn't happen on the PGA as well.

 

Strange that the same thing happening on the PGA side doesn't get questioned as much it happening on the LPGA side.