Rants and Raves...

[TimV]

Can't begin to tell you how much I agree with THIS...

 

Winning ought to mean more than it does

 

http://www.morningread.com/features/09173c35-e419-4741-916e-a077a40ea074

[Tumbleweed_1968]

Can't begin to tell you how much I agree with THIS...

 

Winning ought to mean more than it does

 

http://www.morningre...6e-a077a40ea074

 

I agree. A lot of the pros seem satisfied with being millionaire golfers. Speith has lost some of the fire. I wish he would just get married start the family and get his head right. Koepka deserves more acclaim than he gets. I like Rose, but yeah, number 1?

[birly-shirly]

I dunno. I follow the argument, but at the end of the day, I like Rose so I don't find the argument convincing. There's only 3 types of professional golfer that you really hear about - the dominant (Tiger), the streaky (Rory), and the consistent (Justin). Too many sportswriters just come across like starstruck fans in the face of the first type. And then the streaky and the consistent each get damned for not being more of the other.

 

Gotta say also - the last world number ones that I recall the media bleating about as being "not worthy" were Luke Donald and Lee Westwood. Pattern?

[elwhippy]

So what so you do your local Pro shops go sour? Our Pro has a boutique rather than a shop. He stocks virtually no hardware and his only viable account is with Callaway....if you want to wait two months for a wedge. Problem is all club prizes go through his shop so if you want "exotic" shoes like FJ or Nike tough. The next nearest clubs have no Pro and the others within 30 miles have equally poor selections of hardware and offer insulting trade in prices. Add in nobody has a second hand rack anymore and is loathe to stock anything other than R flex and finding decent gear at competitive prices is becoming a pain. Is the an issue in other parts of the UK?

[stixman]

So what so you do your local Pro shops go sour? Our Pro has a boutique rather than a shop. He stocks virtually no hardware and his only viable account is with Callaway....if you want to wait two months for a wedge. Problem is all club prizes go through his shop so if you want "exotic" shoes like FJ or Nike tough. The next nearest clubs have no Pro and the others within 30 miles have equally poor selections of hardware and offer insulting trade in prices. Add in nobody has a second hand rack anymore and is loathe to stock anything other than R flex and finding decent gear at competitive prices is becoming a pain. Is the an issue in other parts of the UK?

 

My goodness, so it's not just Morecambe!

[birly-shirly]

Lol. Think about it. If a bunch of old farts like us have worked out that we're better served by ebay, gumtree, craigslist and thrift shops, what chance does anyone have trying to run a brick'n'mortar retail operation selling stock that'll be rendered obsolete in 6 months?

[Chris122]

The OEM have made it impossible for a club pro to exist and operate a financially viable business because of

a) Frequent 'improvements' in equipment meaning that current stock becomes obsolete and almost unsaleable after 6 months.

b) Deals done with buying groups or chains giving discounts either immediate or retrospective on quantities purchased.

I know that TMAG invited buyers to a meeting to apologise for the marketing FU that resulted in them having 5 or 6 drivers on sale all at the same time.

This was a couple of years ago but the situation hasn't changed much viz; M1.M2,M3 no doubt soon to be eclipsed by the...?

A pal of mine went bust because he tried to stock a range of quality hardware but turnover was slow because he could not compete with the internet and there was the inevitable situation where people would look at and demo clubs at his shop then go and buy online.

In the old days pro shops would take clubs as p/ex because most lines would change only every two years or so,thus they were not 'outdated' so quickly and retained value better than modern equipment which is largely mediocre,Chinese mass produced junk and I am not referring to their boats when I say that.

The committee at my club ousted the then professional in a very unpleasant and underhand way costing the club some £K's and have installed a retailer based just outside Scarborough who has taken over the shops of several clubs in the area.

Good or bad?

I dislike the concept but prices are as good as anywhere else.

Against my better judgement I bought an UA shirt and had the pleasure to find that my mistrust was justified and that they are hot,sweaty and unpleasant to wear.

 

elwhippy;

 

The situation with prize money all being channelled through the shop was the same at a former club where the members had enough of being stuffed and suggested firmly to the committee that members should have the option of having their account credited to either shop,bar card or deducted from subscriptions.

They accepted the change without having to go to AGM and it was implemented successfully.

This was after a fellow member had gone into the shop to price a new set of Ping irons having accrued a considerable amount in winnings.

He told the pro what he had been quoted elsewhere and asked if he could match it,the answer was yes but ONLY FOR CASH!

My pal pointed out that the pro had already had the cash out of the prize fund and ended up telling him to shove it and bought elsewhere using his shop credit for drinks and sweets until the changeover.

Gather support and get it changed!

[stixman]

It's been that way in Sweden for many years, no Pro shop and admin sells basic consumables.

[Tumbleweed_1968]

I find this discussion interesting from a cultural perspective. All my life in the States I have never had a membership with any club except for the brief one my parents bought when I was a kid. But even then no one I knew bought new clubs ever. Same as now. I only bought new clubs recently due to the switch to graphite/ A flex. Yes, bought online.

 

I grew up in the era of discount sporting good store boom, so iirc, thats where people in my class bought clubs. But even that was rare. Unless something broke, never saw a new set among friends. You either bought used or were given clubs. Thats how i got my first setup. When i was older, discount store.

 

Now I am awash in vintage clubs from thrift stores, but never think to go to a pro shop for anything. I've probably bought enough Snickers and pretzels tho at the pro shop to pay for a couple of full sets... Interesting.

 

 

[elwhippy]

Good answers Chris 122. I have friend with some £900 of credit on account. He wants a new set of AP2s and an 818 hybrid to replace his old faithful 712 / 910 versions. He asked our Pro for a price. And is still waiting for a response. He is a man of comfortable financial means but obviously wants to use his hard earned credit to buy an easily available make of equipment. The Pro is seen as a shining light by the committee due to being able crawl under a door without opening it. Members are getting really hacked off at the lack of stuff to buy. He has a sole sand iron in his shop and 6 putters...all above £250. I think he would crap himself if the idea of prizes coming off fees or bar tabs was mooted.....

[shotmark]

As a lot of the recent comments re pro shops seem to have come from the UK I thought I'd contribute from the other side of the counter.

Although not a pro, I work in the pro shop at a privately owned pay and play and driving range. The club owners who are not golfers have been told by the bean counters (also not golfers) that we should have at least a 40% mark up on everything in the shop. With the exception of edibles and cheaper golf balls this just isn't possible.

 

It is hard to imagine that with this mark up we would sell anything more than the odd impulse buy driver or putter in any given year. The upshot of this is that it is likely we'll have to at some point give up selling clubs/shoes/clothing/bags etc.

 

The exception to this sad story is Motocaddy who do not allow retailers to discount their products thus enabling the small pro shops to compete on equal footing with the big boys.

 

Despite all the above, customers (understandably) expect us to carry every bit of gear from every manufacturer and clothing co. and expect to get trade ins way above the actual value of the goods as they perceive we have massive margins on the stuff we're selling.

 

Not sure what the answer is.

[scomac2002]

I live near a green grass pro shop that is part of an executive length 18 hole golf course. The pro shop is fully stocked with four major lines: TM, Callaway, Ping, Cobra and they can order to fit with a two week delivery. They do a lot of outdoor fitting and sell quite a bit of stuff as a result. They have to compete with the big box retailers which isn't hard on current model year product, although they have trouble matching clearance pricing from the big box stores.

 

There market is the avid player that wants to bit fit rather than the casual player looking for something cheap and easy off the rack. It seems to work just fine probably helped by the course and pro shop owner also being the head pro and a TM staffer.

 

They have a diverse customer base, but many are older as evidenced by the league players and these folks will buy most of their consumables right from the course pro shop. As long as they're in the ballpark on pricing, the service generally gets them plenty of sales.

[stixman]

And then there is the question of the 'Retainer' paid to the Club Pro. As a Club member I'm not told what he gets, rumoured to be £20K. Shop...free! Where else do you see retailer businessmen get their shop for free and paid 'x' amount, and then use that as the base for their Club business and their 'on-line' business (which, incidentally is where your trade-in tat goes, often for healthy prices) + sundry dealing.

Then on top of that, there is the teaching on site

Now, I'm not a bean counter, but I do know that in the businesses I've been involved with running I can't expect to make the same margins across the board. I can't expect my customer base to suck up the fact that I will drop high cost, low margin items from my range because my accountant says to increase profitablity I have to eliminate 'my highest cost centres.

Now our home Club Pro is struggling, runs a very pretty boutique outlet, nobody goes to him for lessons etc etc. 3 miles away at a competing Club and Pro Shop he stocks Cobra, Callaway and Wilson (I think), he has 2 other teaching pros and his diary is full. One Pro has a Pied piper approach to kids golf, the other can't get 3 to play in the juniors monthly medal.

Go figure.

[scomac2002]

The shop I was describing have three teaching pros, one of which has extensive experience with juniors including a couple of highly ranked ones over the years. Another specializes in seniors trying to help them enjoy the game more without reinventing the wheel. Periodically they have had a female pro to cater to the women, although my wife said that she has gotten along better with the men and gotten more from their instruction. Coincidence? I don't know...

[elwhippy]

Our Pro gets around £2500 a month retainer...Not a bad starting point...

[TimV]

The shop I was describing have three teaching pros, one of which has extensive experience with juniors including a couple of highly ranked ones over the years. Another specializes in seniors trying to help them enjoy the game more without reinventing the wheel. Periodically they have had a female pro to cater to the women, although my wife said that she has gotten along better with the men and gotten more from their instruction. Coincidence? I don't know...

 

Tell your wife that you have gotten along better with the female pro and have gotten more from her instruction.

See how that flies. ;)

[scomac2002]

The shop I was describing have three teaching pros, one of which has extensive experience with juniors including a couple of highly ranked ones over the years. Another specializes in seniors trying to help them enjoy the game more without reinventing the wheel. Periodically they have had a female pro to cater to the women, although my wife said that she has gotten along better with the men and gotten more from their instruction. Coincidence? I don't know...

 

Tell your wife that you have gotten along better with the female pro and have gotten more from her instruction.

See how that flies. ;)

 

Umm...no. That wouldn't go over well. At least with her I know what she was on about as the last female instructor she had was more interested in texting on her phone than giving her attention to the person who was paying for a lesson! :wacko:

 

The last instructor she went to was a little Italian fellow named NIno who was so excited when he met her when he though she was putting left hand low until he realized that she was putting left handed. At least he actually showed her a thing or two rather than p*ss*ng around with a cellphone!

[Wriggles]

Our course never had much pro shop sales. Used to be able to order Footjoy shoes at cost, no pro to deal with, just the manager. That stopped a decade ago. The then manager said Footjoy refused selling a few shoes every once in a while at wholesale.

 

Our "pro shop" consists of a display case with old sleeves of balls, a few gloves, and bag tags, at greatly inflated prices. Once in a while, someone foolishly buys something.

[Chris122]

As a lot of the recent comments re pro shops seem to have come from the UK I thought I'd contribute from the other side of the counter.

Although not a pro, I work in the pro shop at a privately owned pay and play and driving range. The club owners who are not golfers have been told by the bean counters (also not golfers) that we should have at least a 40% mark up on everything in the shop. With the exception of edibles and cheaper golf balls this just isn't possible.

 

It is hard to imagine that with this mark up we would sell anything more than the odd impulse buy driver or putter in any given year. The upshot of this is that it is likely we'll have to at some point give up selling clubs/shoes/clothing/bags etc.

 

The exception to this sad story is Motocaddy who do not allow retailers to discount their products thus enabling the small pro shops to compete on equal footing with the big boys.

 

Despite all the above, customers (understandably) expect us to carry every bit of gear from every manufacturer and clothing co. and expect to get trade ins way above the actual value of the goods as they perceive we have massive margins on the stuff we're selling.

 

Not sure what the answer is.

 

I ran the golf operation at a four-star hotel in the 90's before internet madness but still a highly competitive business with mail order 'shops' offering big discounts.

I didn't try to compete with the hardware retailers,half a dozen iron sets then a good choice of wedges,putters and woods principally from Titleist,Mizuno and Wilson.

At that time Mizuno were quite strict about who they opened accounts with,their agent was not enthusiastic until I showed him round the hotel which was a magnificent building and it dawned on him just what the clientele base was likely to be.

A Japanese company bought the hotel,refitted the shop to my design and we were very successful.

It was a perfect scenario as far as I was concerned,I had freedom to order and stock what I wanted,paid for by the hotel,profit margins were flexible depending on the brand.I stocked Lacoste,Bobby Jones,Glenmuir and ditched Pringle after they insisted on forward orders of £K's.

We hosted and ran a large number of corporate golf events each year where the top brands came into their own as prizes,Bobby Jones shirts were fantastic at that time,beautiful quality and designs completely different to Geometric George who was everywhere!

I had a member come in one day who started chatting about a set of Wilson Staff irons and the best price I could offer.

Before giving my price I managed to get him to brag that he had actually just bought a set from a discount retailer about 20 miles away in Coventry for less than the ticket price in my shop.

I got out my Wilson trade list to see that he had paid not much over trade price plus VAT but not to be beaten I fussed with my calculator and said;

"Pity you didn't come to me first.....Wilson are doing a promotion on that model and I could have done them for £30 less than you paid....."

All lies but it worked...his face dropped like he'd just been kicked in the nuts!

The point of this long-winded tale is that it was about that time mid-90's that bulk retailers were selling at virtually cost price and earning profit from retrospective discounts offered by the manufacturers,a policy that I believe is still going strong and which makes it impossible for a lone professional to compete.

Having seen both sides I find it almost impossible to understand why people rush to buy the newest equipment when it can be bought for a fraction of the price 12 months down the road or when you consider that a £600 set of irons contains 20% tax!

Another good reason why buying vintage/used/second hand makes an awful lot of sense.

[oldschoolrocker]

On my side of the pond it’s rare to still find a green grass shop that stocks more than a few putters, or, wedges. Sometimes one will find the occasional demo driver, or, iron. Some shoes, socks, gloves, balls, and bags, but, nothing that would turn the head of a serious shopper.

Now, I suspect the majority of sales are generated by “course specific” logo items, hats, shirts, towels, ball markers, tumblers, things that could be construed as souvenirs of the occasion.

I have noticed that some have gone to what I believe are items on consignment. Local artisan design prints, jewelry, and whatever the area is known for. That, and the super inflated price of a hot dog, snack bar item, or, beverage.

[elwhippy]

As a non souvenir buyer I find going to more premium courses a bind. Everything has the logo on. If I am not a member of a club I would not wear their logo. One of our local clubs has decided on this policy so if you win a prize you are limited to non logo balls, clubs and bags. All their clothing is now branded with the club logo.

[Chris122]

Me too!

 

I'm not a fan of logo's and will not even buy my own club's stuff,I stopped wearing a uniform when I left school and have sufficient self-confidence not to have to feel 'included' by virtue of a badged sweater.

 

Years ago I was always fined £1 for refusing to wear a club tie at post-match meals on the basis that I had a wonderful selection of quality silk ties whereas the club's was a cheap polyester.

 

elwhippy;

 

Plus1on the Callaway Supersoft,now my favourite ball.

[Tumbleweed_1968]

Rant: Foursomes! Ugh!

 

Just happened to be free for a quick nine last Sunday. Packer Game special. Nine for $10+ 5 for a riding cart.

 

Got stuck behind a foursome: couples. Waited until they were off of the first green before teeing off. Played three balls thinking that it would put distance between me and them. Ha!

 

Second hole I played four balls. Waited several minutes on the third, and I could see them looking back at me. They kept on with their glacial pace, making all of the rookie mistakes. Carts parked in front of the greens, no "ready golf", lining up puts forever, etc...

 

Played three twice with four balls. Went all the way back to two and played that again, with four balls. They were still on the green on four when I teed off on two for the second time. Played three again (the third time now) with four balls. I am my own foursome at this point, but me, myself, I, and my invisible friend were all having a lot of fun, talking and laughing at ridiculous shots. No, there was no alcohol involved, but there probably should have been.

 

Finally played four and five as my own foursome, Six as a twosome, and caught them again on seven. I have seen glaciers melt faster than these people played. So I jumped ahead, skipping seven, and on to the eight tee. Suddenly they sped up their pace of play and were pressuring me!!

 

Played 8 as a threesome and nine as a twosome. Didn't break par, but I was close again. It was a difficult day keeping focus though. So aggravating.

 

So if anyone wonders why I play alone at sunrise, or in the rain, this is why. (No spray bottle required)

:to_become_senile:

[BIG STU]

Chris I know exactly what you are talking about. My old man ran a golf course for years. Back when they were "green grass shops" in other words you had pro line equipment. He did really well. Fast forward to the mid 70s--- I can remember when the first big box store opened. It was called Pro Golf Discount. When they opened my old man went and checked them out. He came back and discussed it with friends that were in the same business. He concluded that the Club Pro business as they knew it was coming to an end. I think he retired about a year or so later.

[BIG STU]

Rant: Foursomes! Ugh!

 

Just happened to be free for a quick nine last Sunday. Packer Game special. Nine for $10+ 5 for a riding cart.

 

Got stuck behind a foursome: couples. Waited until they were off of the first green before teeing off. Played three balls thinking that it would put distance between me and them. Ha!

 

Second hole I played four balls. Waited several minutes on the third, and I could see them looking back at me. They kept on with their glacial pace, making all of the rookie mistakes. Carts parked in front of the greens, no "ready golf", lining up puts forever, etc...

 

Played three twice with four balls. Went all the way back to two and played that again, with four balls. They were still on the green on four when I teed off on two for the second time. Played three again (the third time now) with four balls. I am my own foursome at this point, but me, myself, I, and my invisible friend were all having a lot of fun, talking and laughing at ridiculous shots. No, there was no alcohol involved, but there probably should have been.

 

Finally played four and five as my own foursome, Six as a twosome, and caught them again on seven. I have seen glaciers melt faster than these people played. So I jumped ahead, skipping seven, and on to the eight tee. Suddenly they sped up their pace of play and were pressuring me!!

 

Played 8 as a threesome and nine as a twosome. Didn't break par, but I was close again. It was a difficult day keeping focus though. So aggravating.

 

So if anyone wonders why I play alone at sunrise, or in the rain, this is why. (No spray bottle required)

:to_become_senile:

I would have went around them about the second hole---- I did that at my course one time with a group of asinine tourons. They called the clubhouse on me. The Asst Pro told them "well he is a member here and he can do what he wants to do". He told me about it on the turn and gave them a lecture on the turn too. Also told them their pace of play was too unreasonable. He told me about it after I finished 18. I went on the back side again just to piss them off and when I got to them I cut over to the front side again. I rode by and they looked incensed. I told them I was cutting over to the other side that I was a member and could do that!!!

[TimV]

Dcohenour

, I have been amazed many times that I can go around a group or even have one wave to play through and as soon as I'm past their POP triples. Amazing. It's like when my MIL used to poke along in her car until someone tried to pass her and she speed up.

[TimV]

For some reason this ad makes me want to Yell... POW! BOOM! Ka-POW!!!

 

https://golf.squaretosquaremethod.com/get/gx7xmetal-free-ssk/?utm_source=golf-now-ded&utm_medium=email&utm_content=golf-now-gx7-super-club-added-value&utm_campaign=golf-now-gx7-092318

[TimV]

Big Stu, I'm thinking that the two of us have turned p*ssing off Tourons and Snowflakes into a Sport! :taunt:

[BIG STU]

Big Stu, I'm thinking that the two of us have turned p*ssing off Tourons and Snowflakes into a Sport! :taunt:

Yep but seriously I do not mess with them ------ unless they get me POed first or act extremely stupid

[elwhippy]

I had to use the mute button watching the Tour Championship. I reckon Ewan Murray was getting paid by Nike and TM and salivating at every shot Tiger hit.