Callaway Epic Tour Issue???

[dhayse32]

Ok so I might have got a little lucky here but I am not familiar with the whole "Tour Issue" world. Long story short, I bought a used Epic off of eBay a few months back for $330. Installed the head into my 816 shaft and have been gaming it ever since. I recently noticed the adapter that came with my Epic is -2* to +1* and a green dot on it, which I was told meant that it was a tour adapter. Well this morning I looked at the head again and it has "TC" etched just under the serial number. From what I have read, this is Callys way of marking tour heads.

 

So...what is the advantages of this? I can tell you this is by far the longest driver I have ever owned. I am getting amazing roll and perfect ball flight and it is straight.

 

 

[JStang]

Nope, that's not tour issue. You should sell it to me for $250.00...

 

You hit the tour issue jackpot.

[nicoy3k]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

[JStang]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

 

Elaborate...

[dhayse32]

Nope, that's not tour issue. You should sell it to me for $250.00... You hit the tour issue jackpot.

 

HAHA I seriously almost listed it on here a few weeks ago but changed my mind.

[nicoy3k]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

 

Elaborate...

 

Because the stuff is essentially the same and it makes us normals feel like we are playing inferior stuff (even if it's not). We want to play the same stuff the pros use- OEMs coming out and flat out saying:

 

- we don't have tour issue stuff

- you play and have access to 100% of the same equipment

 

Would make me feel really good about going with that company.

 

There is no benefit to callaway to have "cooler" tour issue versions of the driver they charge $500 for retail. It accomplishes. Nothing other than making me feel crappy about my purchase.

[mqmh_03]

That's easily a $600-$800 tour issue head. You got a heck of a deal. Probably has hotmelt or higher COR. Hang on to that driver head!

[dhayse32]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

Elaborate...

Because the stuff is essentially the same and it makes us normals feel like we are playing inferior stuff (even if it's not). We want to play the same stuff the pros use- OEMs coming out and flat out saying: - we don't have tour issue stuff - you play and have access to 100% of the same equipment Would make me feel really good about going with that company. There is no benefit to callaway to have "cooler" tour issue versions of the driver they charge $500 for retail. It accomplishes. Nothing other than making me feel crappy about my purchase.

 

So I agree with this, however in my case, I was bragging this driver up on the forum and in amazement of how it performed prior to realizing it was tour head. Maybe I would hit an off the shelf Epic the same, who knows.

[JStang]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

 

Elaborate...

 

Because the stuff is essentially the same and it makes us normals feel like we are playing inferior stuff (even if it's not). We want to play the same stuff the pros use- OEMs coming out and flat out saying:

 

- we don't have tour issue stuff

- you play and have access to 100% of the same equipment

 

Would make me feel really good about going with that company.

 

There is no benefit to callaway to have "cooler" tour issue versions of the driver they charge $500 for retail. It accomplishes. Nothing other than making me feel crappy about my purchase.

 

I see your points but a professionals swing is much more consistent than any of ours. They know that they need a 202.5 degree had that is 1.8 degrees open. They deserve tighter manufacturing tolerances to fit them. Their club isn't any hotter than ours, it just fits them better and there is a "cool factor" to the average Joe playing tour issued equipment. All of my shafts are.

[FlyingLaw1]

Nice!!!

 

How does one even purchase a Tour Issue? I tried to find out how a while back but couldn't find anything...

[JDCON]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

 

Elaborate...

 

Because the stuff is essentially the same and it makes us normals feel like we are playing inferior stuff (even if it's not). We want to play the same stuff the pros use- OEMs coming out and flat out saying:

 

- we don't have tour issue stuff

- you play and have access to 100% of the same equipment

 

Would make me feel really good about going with that company.

 

There is no benefit to callaway to have "cooler" tour issue versions of the driver they charge $500 for retail. It accomplishes. Nothing other than making me feel crappy about my purchase.

 

As a professional marketer (HEY EVERYBODY, digital marketer here, hire me!), I must disagree that it is a dumb move. It's brilliant for the exact reasoning you just stated. It makes the general public hunger for an even higher price point item. You say there is no benefit, yet then you say that it makes you want it. Well, from a for-profit company perspective, that certainly sounds like a benefit to me. Yes, it stinks that regular schleps take it in the shorts, but from a company perspective, it's brilliant. Also, for the 99.9% of people who have no idea what Tour Issue is, it has no bearing. It only touches on that .01% who know and would be willing to dish it out.

 

Now, is it a good PR move? Not sure.

[AThompson_3]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

I tend to agree. I think by marking some products as Tour issue it devalues the retail product to some extent in consumers minds who are aware of this fact.

[nicoy3k]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

 

Elaborate...

 

Because the stuff is essentially the same and it makes us normals feel like we are playing inferior stuff (even if it's not). We want to play the same stuff the pros use- OEMs coming out and flat out saying:

 

- we don't have tour issue stuff

- you play and have access to 100% of the same equipment

 

Would make me feel really good about going with that company.

 

There is no benefit to callaway to have "cooler" tour issue versions of the driver they charge $500 for retail. It accomplishes. Nothing other than making me feel crappy about my purchase.

 

As a professional marketer (HEY EVERYBODY, digital marketer here, hire me!), I must disagree that it is a dumb move. It's brilliant for the exact reasoning you just stated. It makes the general public hunger for an even higher price point item. You say there is no benefit, yet then you say that it makes you want it. Well, from a for-profit company perspective, that certainly sounds like a benefit to me. Yes, it stinks that regular schleps take it in the shorts, but from a company perspective, it's brilliant. Also, for the 99.9% of people who have no idea what Tour Issue is, it has no bearing. It only touches on that .01% who know and would be willing to dish it out.

 

Now, is it a good PR move? Not sure.

 

Huh? There is no market for more expensive tour items. A few straggler eBay sales (of which the oem makes nothing) and overpriced "tour" releases (which rarley happen) account for a nearly insignificant portion of the market.

 

If callaway was smart I'd be able to go on their site and buy Henrik stensons 3 wood to spec (and adjust as I like)

 

Same for Taylor made- should be able to buy the EXACT club that their staff plays, without jacking up the prices.

 

The closest to this is Ping, which doesn't not have special tour versions of their clubs.

 

Like, the fact that it took TM YEARs to release Jason days putter is totally insane.

[PostandGhost]

That's easily a $600-$800 tour issue head. You got a heck of a deal. Probably has hotmelt or higher COR. Hang on to that driver head!

 

I doubt it has high COR. Tour Issue heads usually come in the low 240s for the CT test, or as close to the 239 as possible. The reason I've heard is that the pros don't want to play anything that could be above the illegal 257 CT tolerance mark for obvious reasons. It's like teeing it up as close to the tee markers as possible, the penalty is far greater than the reward. Those guys hit it a mile anyways, they don't need a 255 CT head.

[coreyl]

Score 1 for the home team!

[xjohnx]

Honestly OEMs having tour issue stuff is the dumbest marketing move they could make.

 

Elaborate...

 

Because the stuff is essentially the same and it makes us normals feel like we are playing inferior stuff (even if it's not). We want to play the same stuff the pros use- OEMs coming out and flat out saying:

 

- we don't have tour issue stuff

- you play and have access to 100% of the same equipment

 

Would make me feel really good about going with that company.

 

There is no benefit to callaway to have "cooler" tour issue versions of the driver they charge $500 for retail. It accomplishes. Nothing other than making me feel crappy about my purchase.

 

As a professional marketer (HEY EVERYBODY, digital marketer here, hire me!), I must disagree that it is a dumb move. It's brilliant for the exact reasoning you just stated. It makes the general public hunger for an even higher price point item. You say there is no benefit, yet then you say that it makes you want it. Well, from a for-profit company perspective, that certainly sounds like a benefit to me. Yes, it stinks that regular schleps take it in the shorts, but from a company perspective, it's brilliant. Also, for the 99.9% of people who have no idea what Tour Issue is, it has no bearing. It only touches on that .01% who know and would be willing to dish it out.

 

Now, is it a good PR move? Not sure.

 

Huh? There is no market for more expensive tour items. A few straggler eBay sales (of which the oem makes nothing) and overpriced "tour" releases (which rarley happen) account for a nearly insignificant portion of the market.

 

If callaway was smart I'd be able to go on their site and buy Henrik stensons 3 wood to spec (and adjust as I like)

 

Same for Taylor made- should be able to buy the EXACT club that their staff plays, without jacking up the prices.

 

The closest to this is Ping, which doesn't not have special tour versions of their clubs.

 

Like, the fact that it took TM YEARs to release Jason days putter is totally insane.

 

Yeah Nicoy is kind of right. Your professional outlook makes sense except for the fact you can't buy this stuff from Callaway. That alone takes validity away from your theory. You'd be right if people had the option to buy the standard retail option OR the higher margin "tour" version. But the only people benefiting from the profit of these more expensive tour issue clubs are on the second hand market. No benefit to Callaway at all.

 

Edit: one though though. Along these lines, I think it could be smart to reintroduce the "Tour Authentic" name to some clubs. Something like a TA Epic SZ 440 would kill. We know they exist on tour so why not introduce a limited release. FWIW it was a Tour Authentic Big Bertha Diablo that started my love affair with Callaway.

[orangeology]

there we go, a quintessential wrx topic, tour issue!

 

OP, you seem to have found (and been super lucky) a jackpot for sure. seen it's sold for like 800 something head only. and that adaptor—of which i believe makes flatter lie than retail version—sold over 75. sure the shaft with the adaptor is also something (i'm wondering, mind sharing?)

 

in my humble experience: if it's a Callaway, Titleist or Nike tour issue (can't speak for Cobra or Ping as i don't care too much for those marquees), there definitely are differences, other than placebo. having owned (and been stuck to) some really good Callie clubs with the TC label. i even tested myself comparing same model clubs to see whether there's a difference.

 

if it goes TM—again in my experience especially in wrx—i really doubt if there's a meaningful difference between a t/i and retail when you see every other M1 or M2 here is with the + sign... sure it's great marketing that seems work well. no problem with it. and placebo, the best golfing aid. nothing adds more yardage than the words like "tour issue" or "prototype" right?

 

congrats! not only a good club gives you an epic distance, but also top-notch resale value. #whynot

[dhayse32]

there we go, a quintessential wrx topic, tour issue! OP, you seem to have found (and been super lucky) a jackpot for sure. seen it's sold for like 800 something head only. and that adaptor—of which i believe makes flatter lie than retail version—sold over 75. sure the shaft with the adaptor is also something (i'm wondering, mind sharing?) in my humble experience: if it's a Callaway, Titleist or Nike tour issue (can't speak for Cobra or Ping as i don't care too much for those marquees), there definitely are differences, other than placebo. having owned (and been stuck to) some really good Callie clubs with the TC label. i even tested myself comparing same model clubs to see whether there's a difference. if it goes TM—again in my experience especially in wrx—i really doubt if there's a meaningful difference between a t/i and retail when you see every other M1 or M2 here is with the + sign... sure it's great marketing that seems work well. no problem with it. and placebo, the best golfing aid. nothing adds more yardage than the words like "tour issue" or "prototype" right? congrats! not only a good club gives you an epic distance, but also top-notch resale value. #whynot

 

Thanks for the info! The shaft (which I tried to sell for $50 on here) was just an MFS Matrix 60Q5 Xflex, nothing fancy. Went back and looked at the eBay listing (link below). The description only says "XFlex". Took a risk with such little information but for once it worked out.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/callaway-epic-driver-9-0/162508700244?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[sandy]

Ok so I might have got a little lucky here but I am not familiar with the whole "Tour Issue" world. Long story short, I bought a used Epic off of eBay a few months back for $330. Installed the head into my 816 shaft and have been gaming it ever since. I recently noticed the adapter that came with my Epic is -2* to +1* and a green dot on it, which I was told meant that it was a tour adapter. Well this morning I looked at the head again and it has "TC" etched just under the serial number. From what I have read, this is Callys way of marking tour heads.

 

So...what is the advantages of this? I can tell you this is by far the longest driver I have ever owned. I am getting amazing roll and perfect ball flight and it is straight.

 

 

 

I thought the color codes on the adapters related to lie, I have a red dot that is flatter lies and a green dot that is upright lies, but the actual loft range still is the same -1 to +2. Post a picture if you can showing -2 to +1. You have a tour head a friend has an 8.5 Epic (not SZ) that also has TC under the serial number. It looks a little smaller than standard otherwise why produce an 8.5 when Standard is 9.0.

[dhayse32]

 

 

this was from the eBay ad I bought it from, but you can see the -2 in the pic. Can't see the green dot, but there is one.

[sandy]

Thanks must be 2 green dot adapters

[JDCON]

Yeah Nicoy is kind of right. Your professional outlook makes sense except for the fact you can't buy this stuff from Callaway. That alone takes validity away from your theory. You'd be right if people had the option to buy the standard retail option OR the higher margin "tour" version. But the only people benefiting from the profit of these more expensive tour issue clubs are on the second hand market. No benefit to Callaway at all.

 

Edit: one though though. Along these lines, I think it could be smart to reintroduce the "Tour Authentic" name to some clubs. Something like a TA Epic SZ 440 would kill. We know they exist on tour so why not introduce a limited release. FWIW it was a Tour Authentic Big Bertha Diablo that started my love affair with Callaway.

 

I thought you could get these from Callaway and not just on Ebay. I've been out of the game for awhile and just getting back. Hell, I just learned about Tour Issued. My mistake, I guess I need to start over with my theory.

[xjohnx]

Yeah Nicoy is kind of right. Your professional outlook makes sense except for the fact you can't buy this stuff from Callaway. That alone takes validity away from your theory. You'd be right if people had the option to buy the standard retail option OR the higher margin "tour" version. But the only people benefiting from the profit of these more expensive tour issue clubs are on the second hand market. No benefit to Callaway at all.

 

Edit: one though though. Along these lines, I think it could be smart to reintroduce the "Tour Authentic" name to some clubs. Something like a TA Epic SZ 440 would kill. We know they exist on tour so why not introduce a limited release. FWIW it was a Tour Authentic Big Bertha Diablo that started my love affair with Callaway.

 

I thought you could get these from Callaway and not just on Ebay. I've been out of the game for awhile and just getting back. Hell, I just learned about Tour Issued. My mistake, I guess I need to start over with my theory.

 

Haha no worries. I wasn't hating on you. I think people used to get Tour Authentic confused with "Tour Issue" as well.

[bladehunter]

would be curious to see weight of the head if you have a way to weigh it...most will have some hotmelt... and most people benefit from a heavier head as you can feel where the head is ....I can tell you i tested 12 different M1 heads retail and tour issue and the only one i would use is the one i have.... each was different in some way ... either face angle, or weight.... and one just sounded and felt dead....

[JDCON]

I'd be curious to know if there is a substantial cost increase to the OEMs if they were to issue all their equipment to the standards of tour issued.

[dhayse32]

would be curious to see weight of the head if you have a way to weigh it...most will have some hotmelt... and most people benefit from a heavier head as you can feel where the head is ....I can tell you i tested 12 different M1 heads retail and tour issue and the only one i would use is the one i have.... each was different in some way ... either face angle, or weight.... and one just sounded and felt dead....

 

My buddy has a scale, I will put it on there and see what the weight is.

 

Does anyone know if Cally documents the specs of these based on their serial numbers?

[orangeology]

I'd be curious to know if there is a substantial cost increase to the OEMs if they were to issue all their equipment to the standards of tour issued.

 

lots of cost increase indeed. specs have to be either 1. exact or 2. tight within allowance to the players request, AND 3. in compliance with tour equipment regulations etc. basically needing way more cost in man power of Q&A, assessing, sorting, spec'ing etc. it's—usually—not a different line of manufacture, but more of 'selecting' among the whole bunch.

[Jc0]

I'd be curious to know if there is a substantial cost increase to the OEMs if they were to issue all their equipment to the standards of tour issued.

 

lots of cost increase indeed. specs have to be either 1. exact or 2. tight within allowance to the players request, AND 3. in compliance with tour equipment regulations etc. basically needing way more cost in man power of Q&A, assessing, sorting, spec'ing etc. it's—usually—not a different line of manufacture, but more of 'selecting' among the whole bunch.

 

No extra cost from production side. The extra costs are inspections. The tour heads and retail heads are the same. What makes them different is that all their specs are checked for specific items (weight, face angle, loft, etc.). That costs money and not all heads they checked may fit the specs needed.

 

[xjohnx]

I'd be curious to know if there is a substantial cost increase to the OEMs if they were to issue all their equipment to the standards of tour issued.

 

lots of cost increase indeed. specs have to be either 1. exact or 2. tight within allowance to the players request, AND 3. in compliance with tour equipment regulations etc. basically needing way more cost in man power of Q&A, assessing, sorting, spec'ing etc. it's—usually—not a different line of manufacture, but more of 'selecting' among the whole bunch.

 

No extra cost from production side. The extra costs are inspections. The tour heads and retail heads are the same. What makes them different is that all their specs are checked for specific items (weight, face angle, loft, etc.). That costs money and not all heads they checked may fit the specs needed.

 

Not as easy as you suggest. The guy asked what if they were ALL made to those standards. If they do it your way they will have A LOT of bad eggs that would be seemingly scrapped. Wasted materials of the clubs that did not meet spec would have to be factored into the production costs of the good ones. The only way to avoid this would be to improve the manufacturing process to ensure each club is made to a much higher tolerance. This would also significantly increase production costs. I guess the obvious point to make here is that, if it were they easy to make all clubs to tour standards, they'd have been doing it for quite some time now.

[nicoy3k]

"Tour issue" heads aren't made to an exact spec. They are just mass retail heads that have been digitally checked to be an exact loft. They all come from the same production line.