3W vs Driver off the tee

[JeffreySpicoli]

 

Can you provide a link to an article about the sports psychologists who have proved this as you claim?

 

Especially the one's in "the early 1900s." Sports psychology was quite a burgeoning field prior to World War One.

 

This thread has gone full cray cray again. To complete the scene, we just need Danny DeVito in background chanting, "Hit me. Hit me."

[pinestreetgolf]

Can you provide a link to an article about the sports psychologists who have proved this as you claim?

 

Especially the one's in "the early 1900s." Sports psychology was quite a burgeoning field prior to World War One.

 

This thread has gone full cray cray again. To complete the scene, we just need Danny DeVito in background chanting, "Hit me. Hit me."

 

I'm looking forward to a week from now when tesecor revives the thread by claiming the earth is flat.

[Ri_Redneck]

I see a lot of members talk about using a 3 wood off the tee because the driver isn't working.......with todays technology and "forgiveness", you would think drivers are much easier to hit than years past. The huge 460cc heads are supposed to inspire confidence (I hate them personally), but its funny how a smaller head 3W with a shorter shaft provides that confidence to a lot of amateur players.....maybe club fitting should be geared towards shaft length along with the other fitting parameters. I know it is somewhat, but what are your thoughts? It seems a lot of people like the 3w off the tee because it flies straight for them....but the heads are tiny compared to todays drivers and I know the shafts are shorter.....maybe that's the key to good fitting. Sure you lose some yardage, but if it flies down the middle and you are confident with the club, hitting it 240 down the middle instead of 260 into the rough may save you 5 strokes a loop.

 

What are your thoughts?

Tsecor,

 

I have a novel idea! Go back to post one and try to get back on topic.

 

1. Large head drivers. Mathematically, they give you an edge. The MOI of the larger head makes for a much larger sweetspot and ALL testing on off-center strikes shows they fly farther and straighter than past smaller drivers.

 

2. Does the large head decrease our focus. It can happen. If striving for a good strike becomes secondary to other goals, you accuracy in point-of-contact CAN suffer. It can also cause OVERconfidence and lead to the dreaded "peek" downrange just before impact that plagues many amateurs.

 

3. Length in fitting. Any fitter worth his or her metal should investigate length as a fitting option. Quality of strike is one of the most important goals of any fitting and if shortening a driver an inch benefits the player, all the better! Thankfully, there are dozens of discussions here in the forums covering the subject and it is a simple process to do yourself if you think it would help.

 

4. 3w being more accurate. Needless to say, there are plenty of arguments about this! But trackman data tells us that increasing backspin CAN lessen axis tilt and thus lessen shot curvature when the face/path relationship is not as it should be. But what leads to the face/path differential should be the real question. Solve that with a swing or equipment tweak and suddenly, everything is straight and the driver shines as never before.

 

5. Rough costing 5 strokes a round. Hmm, obviously that depends on the condition of the rough and your ability to negotiate it. People tend to not practice out of the rough much, so typically success is derived solely from the strength of the player. Stronger players are able to generate the type of CHS needed to cut through deeper grass, so they will always do better out of the rough. Your best bet is to actually get out and practice hitting out of deep grass periodically so you have a realistic idea of your abilities. Also, when playing a course for the first time, ask the proshop staff about the rough. Most of them likely play the course regularly and can give you a good idea what you are up against.

 

BT

yea, good idea.....

 

the rough at Bethpage cost me more than 5 strokes last time i was there....That stuff is brutal, even when you are barely in....

I can relate. Visited many course like that in my travels. No crowd to trample it down either.

 

BT

[tsecor]

 

Stenson talks 3w off the tee and struggling with the driver.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOZGOs3lPts

 

one of the top teachers suggesting 3 wood.

 

 

some mini drivers

 

interesting vids

[pinestreetgolf]

why do a lot of non money making, weekend warrior golfers compare themselves to PGA players? that's what I call having a major mental block.

 

 

Stenson talks 3w off the tee and struggling with the driver.

 

 

... ?

[tsecor]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/make-the-right-choice-between-hitting-driver-vs-3-wood

 

slower swing speeds may support a 3w for accuracy as well.

 

Certainly we see this quite often on the professional tours. But is this something everyday players should embrace? Golf Digest ran a test a couple years ago with players at high swing speeds (over 105 miles per hour) and slower swing speeds (95 m.p.h. and lower) to determine just how much those players lost in distance from their big stick to their next big stick. The faster swingers lost 27.6 yards (260.05 yards with the driver to 232.45 yards with the 3-wood). The slower swingers, however, dropped only 14.35 yards (219.3 to 204.95).

The difference makes sense as slower swingers often benefit from added carry from the extra loft while faster swings produce extra spin on a 3-wood that robs them of distance. Though the springlike effect has continued to improve on fairway woods, which probably accounts for adding a few yards, the fact is that for slower swingers, 205 yards off the tee probably isn’t enough except for the shortest of par 4s.

One thing to consider, too, for those who struggle with accuracy in their driver, that a shorter shaft can help with control. Additionally, the large head and higher moment of inertia on a driver provides more forgiveness on mis-hits.

[tsecor]

https://golfanalytics.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/henrik-stenson-loves-his-3-wood-too-much/

 

this is a nice article referencing the stenson video above and how good he is with a 3w off the tee.

[pinestreetgolf]

https://golfanalytic...-wood-too-much/

 

this is a nice article referencing the stenson video above and how good he is with a 3w off the tee.

 

That isn't what the article says at all.

 

"However, based on how well he hits driver, he could rank among the truly elite of the sport off the tee if he would only use the club more often. In other words, when he chooses fairway wood over driver, he loses the twelfth most strokes on Tour."

 

and

 

"It’s not as if he’s wild with the driver. In fact, Stenson hits driver well enough that he gains the 4th most strokes on the field when he uses driver (only McIlroy, Dustin Johnson, and Bubba rank ahead of him). Stenson performs well with fairway wood also, but gains only the 42nd most strokes with a fairway wood because he lays-up so often on holes where most other golfers are hitting driver. His ~278 yard drives with a fairway wood are being compared to 290 yard drives by the rest of the field. In total, he gains about 0.07 strokes more per drive with driver compared to fairway wood."

 

AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD:

 

 

"So if Stenson is hitting a lot of fairway woods because he prioritizes hitting fairways, is he making the right play? In short, no. Using a fairway wood only increases his odds of hitting the fairway by 17%. Multiply that 17% by the 0.08 strokes better he performs on approach shots from the fairway and he gains only 0.01 strokes worth of value per hole from hitting more fairways off of lay-ups. Contrast that with the value he loses because he is hitting fairway wood shorter than driver. He loses 0.07 strokes for each fairway wood he hits, all because he is losing an average of 28 yards of distance when using the shorter club. He hits about four more fairway woods than the average bomber each round, meaning he is losing a quarter of a stroke just because of his club selection."

 

The article reaches the conclusion that Henrik hitting 3 wood is not a smart play. It literally summarizes my argument.

[tsecor]

is the 3 wood the new driver?

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/new-driver-on-tour-the-3-wood

 

its been tested and used with success.

[JeffreySpicoli]

is the 3 wood the new driver?

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/new-driver-on-tour-the-3-wood

 

its been tested and used with success.

 

This and your other recent posts are excellent examples of confirmation bias. (Did you come back to Wrx with a mission to somehow "win the argument" in this thread? Why not just tell yourself that you won and move on?)

 

From Wikipedia . . .

 

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses. IIt is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs.

 

People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

 

A series of psychological experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

 

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in political and organizational contexts.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

 

[tsecor]

Tom Watson loves the 3w for accuracy. Great article

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tom-watson-3-wood

 

When 3-Wood Is Good

 

For accuracy and even distance

 

Using a 3-wood off the tee can be effective. It produces more backspin than a driver, which helps straighten the ball flight. Coming down the stretch, I've relied on my 3-wood to hit the fairway, and I've won major championships as a result.

For example, I drove with a 3-wood on the final hole of the 1982 U.S. Open at Pebble Beach, to keep it in the widest part of the landing area. It was to lessen risk, but I made birdie and won.

[tsecor]

I played last night and the driver was working....hit it straight and distance was good for me....putting was off so I scored about the same as I always do....course management was on point but just couldn't get the putter working.....

[tsecor]

These discussions go back decades! its amazing...

 

https://thesandtrap.com/b/bag_drop/looking_for_the_long_ball_think_3-wood

 

I love this one because it compares a driver (Mike Vick) vs a 3 Wood (Tom Brady).....yea, ill take the Tom Brady please!! lol.

[Pi5seeker]

I need a driver and 3/4 wood I can hit consistently off the tee. I haven't had anything since my Cobra SZ400 and Orlimar Trimetal and my score is 5-10 shots higher than it was then.

[tsecor]

I need a driver and 3/4 wood I can hit consistently off the tee. I haven't had anything since my Cobra SZ400 and Orlimar Trimetal and my score is 5-10 shots higher than it was then.

wow the orlimar!! that was hot a few years back....i used to use a Tight lies driver 9 degree....shot it straight as an arrow,,,,,dead accurate....

[Pi5seeker]

I need a driver and 3/4 wood I can hit consistently off the tee. I haven't had anything since my Cobra SZ400 and Orlimar Trimetal and my score is 5-10 shots higher than it was then.

wow the orlimar!! that was hot a few years back....i used to use a Tight lies driver 9 degree....shot it straight as an arrow,,,,,dead accurate....

 

I'm pretty sure I have a Orlimar Trimetal plus 14* and 18* at my parents house. Maybe I will have to put them back in the bag lol but seriously. I'm going to buy a new driver and 3/4 wood this fall/winter. I want something traditional in look with more forgiveness.

[tsecor]

if you strike it center on most of your drives, the 440cc head are very appealing at address

[deadsolid...shank]

https://golfanalytic...-wood-too-much/

 

this is a nice article referencing the stenson video above and how good he is with a 3w off the tee.

 

That isn't what the article says at all.

 

"However, based on how well he hits driver, he could rank among the truly elite of the sport off the tee if he would only use the club more often. In other words, when he chooses fairway wood over driver, he loses the twelfth most strokes on Tour."

 

and

 

"It’s not as if he’s wild with the driver. In fact, Stenson hits driver well enough that he gains the 4th most strokes on the field when he uses driver (only McIlroy, Dustin Johnson, and Bubba rank ahead of him). Stenson performs well with fairway wood also, but gains only the 42nd most strokes with a fairway wood because he lays-up so often on holes where most other golfers are hitting driver. His ~278 yard drives with a fairway wood are being compared to 290 yard drives by the rest of the field. In total, he gains about 0.07 strokes more per drive with driver compared to fairway wood."

 

AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD:

 

 

"So if Stenson is hitting a lot of fairway woods because he prioritizes hitting fairways, is he making the right play? In short, no. Using a fairway wood only increases his odds of hitting the fairway by 17%. Multiply that 17% by the 0.08 strokes better he performs on approach shots from the fairway and he gains only 0.01 strokes worth of value per hole from hitting more fairways off of lay-ups. Contrast that with the value he loses because he is hitting fairway wood shorter than driver. He loses 0.07 strokes for each fairway wood he hits, all because he is losing an average of 28 yards of distance when using the shorter club. He hits about four more fairway woods than the average bomber each round, meaning he is losing a quarter of a stroke just because of his club selection."

 

The article reaches the conclusion that Henrik hitting 3 wood is not a smart play. It literally summarizes my argument.

 

I'm sorry, I'm willing to listen when their studies address possible improvements for amateurs. But when they start saying a major champion is doing it wrong, I'm out. I'm sure Henrik knows what is best for his game. I'll take his word for it over a bunch of analysts who probably don't break 90.

[JeffreySpicoli]

https://golfanalytic...-wood-too-much/

 

this is a nice article referencing the stenson video above and how good he is with a 3w off the tee.

 

That isn't what the article says at all.

 

"However, based on how well he hits driver, he could rank among the truly elite of the sport off the tee if he would only use the club more often. In other words, when he chooses fairway wood over driver, he loses the twelfth most strokes on Tour."

 

and

 

"It’s not as if he’s wild with the driver. In fact, Stenson hits driver well enough that he gains the 4th most strokes on the field when he uses driver (only McIlroy, Dustin Johnson, and Bubba rank ahead of him). Stenson performs well with fairway wood also, but gains only the 42nd most strokes with a fairway wood because he lays-up so often on holes where most other golfers are hitting driver. His ~278 yard drives with a fairway wood are being compared to 290 yard drives by the rest of the field. In total, he gains about 0.07 strokes more per drive with driver compared to fairway wood."

 

AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD:

 

 

"So if Stenson is hitting a lot of fairway woods because he prioritizes hitting fairways, is he making the right play? In short, no. Using a fairway wood only increases his odds of hitting the fairway by 17%. Multiply that 17% by the 0.08 strokes better he performs on approach shots from the fairway and he gains only 0.01 strokes worth of value per hole from hitting more fairways off of lay-ups. Contrast that with the value he loses because he is hitting fairway wood shorter than driver. He loses 0.07 strokes for each fairway wood he hits, all because he is losing an average of 28 yards of distance when using the shorter club. He hits about four more fairway woods than the average bomber each round, meaning he is losing a quarter of a stroke just because of his club selection."

 

The article reaches the conclusion that Henrik hitting 3 wood is not a smart play. It literally summarizes my argument.

 

I'm sorry, I'm willing to listen when their studies address possible improvements for amateurs. But when they start saying a major champion is doing it wrong, I'm out. I'm sure Henrik knows what is best for his game. I'll take his word for it over a bunch of analysts who probably don't break 90.

 

It’s flawed thinking though to make ad hominem attacks on “analysts who probably don’t break 90.” Their claims don’t stand or fall based on their golf games.

 

If one’s game determined if they were correct then John Jacobs would invoked to defend the old ball flight laws.

[deadsolid...shank]

https://golfanalytic...-wood-too-much/

 

this is a nice article referencing the stenson video above and how good he is with a 3w off the tee.

 

That isn't what the article says at all.

 

"However, based on how well he hits driver, he could rank among the truly elite of the sport off the tee if he would only use the club more often. In other words, when he chooses fairway wood over driver, he loses the twelfth most strokes on Tour."

 

and

 

"It’s not as if he’s wild with the driver. In fact, Stenson hits driver well enough that he gains the 4th most strokes on the field when he uses driver (only McIlroy, Dustin Johnson, and Bubba rank ahead of him). Stenson performs well with fairway wood also, but gains only the 42nd most strokes with a fairway wood because he lays-up so often on holes where most other golfers are hitting driver. His ~278 yard drives with a fairway wood are being compared to 290 yard drives by the rest of the field. In total, he gains about 0.07 strokes more per drive with driver compared to fairway wood."

 

AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD:

 

 

"So if Stenson is hitting a lot of fairway woods because he prioritizes hitting fairways, is he making the right play? In short, no. Using a fairway wood only increases his odds of hitting the fairway by 17%. Multiply that 17% by the 0.08 strokes better he performs on approach shots from the fairway and he gains only 0.01 strokes worth of value per hole from hitting more fairways off of lay-ups. Contrast that with the value he loses because he is hitting fairway wood shorter than driver. He loses 0.07 strokes for each fairway wood he hits, all because he is losing an average of 28 yards of distance when using the shorter club. He hits about four more fairway woods than the average bomber each round, meaning he is losing a quarter of a stroke just because of his club selection."

 

The article reaches the conclusion that Henrik hitting 3 wood is not a smart play. It literally summarizes my argument.

 

I'm sorry, I'm willing to listen when their studies address possible improvements for amateurs. But when they start saying a major champion is doing it wrong, I'm out. I'm sure Henrik knows what is best for his game. I'll take his word for it over a bunch of analysts who probably don't break 90.

 

It’s flawed thinking though to make ad hominem attacks on “analysts who probably don’t break 90.” Their claims don’t stand or fall based on their golf games.

 

If one’s game determined if they were correct then John Jacobs would invoked to defend the old ball flight laws.

 

That's true. Their games are for the most part irrelevant. You posted before I had a chance to edit that out. It doesn't however change the fact that they are purporting to tell one of the best players in the game how to play.

 

And therein again is the crux of my argument. Human beings swing the club. Not a robot that produces identical, clear cut numbers time after time. Every swing a person makes, every single one of them, has something different factored into it. Stats want everything to be nice and clean and precise. But real world play doesnt work that way. It's messy and convoluted. And ever changing.

[deadsolid...shank]

I think I need to block or unfollow this thread. I feel as strongly the opposite way from PSG and Matthew. And while the discussion is good and civil, I think it's starting to make my head hurt!

[JeffreySpicoli]

I think I need to block or unfollow this thread. I feel as strongly the opposite way from PSG and Matthew. And while the discussion is good and civil, I think it's starting to make my head hurt!

 

This thread was over long ago. We keep churning and talking past each other.

 

Oddly, tsecor popped up after a two month absence from Wrx and decided to return and jump back into this thread. Whatever motivations he has probably aren’t apparent even to him.

 

Read Broadie and let’s discuss elsewhere—or not. As long as tsecor feels the need to own this thread, it will go nowhere.

[deadsolid...shank]

I think I need to block or unfollow this thread. I feel as strongly the opposite way from PSG and Matthew. And while the discussion is good and civil, I think it's starting to make my head hurt!

 

This thread was over long ago. We keep churning and talking past each other.

 

Oddly, tsecor popped up after a two month absence from Wrx and decided to return and jump back into this thread. Whatever motivations he has probably aren’t apparent even to him.

 

Read Broadie and let’s discuss elsewhere—or not. As long as tsecor feels the need to own this thread, it will go nowhere.

 

I do plan to read it. I think hurts my argument a little bit when I haven't. But just a little bit!

[JeffreySpicoli]

I think I need to block or unfollow this thread. I feel as strongly the opposite way from PSG and Matthew. And while the discussion is good and civil, I think it's starting to make my head hurt!

 

This thread was over long ago. We keep churning and talking past each other.

 

Oddly, tsecor popped up after a two month absence from Wrx and decided to return and jump back into this thread. Whatever motivations he has probably aren’t apparent even to him.

 

Read Broadie and let’s discuss elsewhere—or not. As long as tsecor feels the need to own this thread, it will go nowhere.

 

I do plan to read it. I think hurts my argument a little bit when I haven't. But just a little bit!

 

Would enjoy discussing with you more This thread isn’t the place though as there are too many misdirections, theatrics, and illogic. No need to name names.

[tsecor]

id love to see the discussion between certain peeps here and stenson......that would be entertainment

[rawdog]

id love to see the discussion between certain peeps here and stenson......that would be entertainment

 

I dunno. He seems like a pretty humble, self-aware kind of guy.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-henrik-stenson-learned-to-win-big-after-conquering-the-yips

 

Oh, and pretty smart.

[tsecor]

id love to see the discussion between certain peeps here and stenson......that would be entertainment

 

I dunno. He seems like a pretty humble, self-aware kind of guy.

 

https://www.golfdige...uering-the-yips

 

Oh, and pretty smart.

 

Stenson could have picked a long iron that would have taken the right bunker and the strand of traps on the left out of play. Instead, he immediately pulled out the most reliable club in his bag. Even though it hides under a headcover for one of the clubs from Callaway's current line, the circa-2010 Diablo Octane Tour 3-wood with the electric-blue shaft is what Stenson has been using to overpower courses for more than six years—an eternity in the world of tour equipment

"It's shorter than standard, and it has about 12.8 degrees of loft," says Peter Cowen, Stenson's coach for the past 15 years. "He can hit it down a funnel, really. He can hit driver, too, but I don't know why you'd need anything else. When he's at his best, it's like watching a video game."{C}

The man from Gothenburg, Sweden, didn't hesitate. Starting his swing with its idiosyncratic hitch away from the ball, he smashed the ancient 3-wood for the fifth time on the back nine. The ball came off high and straight and kicked slightly right when it landed. It bounded hard toward Norman's bunker, but Stenson had already picked up his tee and retreated to the back of the tee box to wait for Mickelson to play.

[Ri_Redneck]

PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.

 

And that's assuming you can even find the wayward driver shot in the trees and have a shot with it. I hit two 3 hybrids of one of our narrow holes this weekend, both landed on the edge of the tree line (not deep into them) I only found the provisional and still had to take an unplayable. If I had hit driver, it would have taken a lot more balls to get one I could actually play.

PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.

 

Nobody is advocating blasting the ball where you can't find it. We were discussing fairway at 240 vs. rough at 260. Somehow now we're behind trees and not finding our ball. Obviously I'm not advocating that you hit the ball into a penalty area or an area where you have to chip backwards.

 

A whole lot of people work on driver accuracy in a vacuum. I'm saying its player-dependent. If I can work the ball, my "accuracy" is completely different than a 20 cap. The key to driver accuracy is to measure it *in terms of the accuracy of the resulting iron shot*. Driver accuracy, taken on its own, doesn't matter very much*.

 

Measured over several rounds, it is very possible - probably even likely - that a driver that is a little less accurate but longer will result in iron shots that have a tighter proximity to the hole.

 

*This does not mean it doesn't matter if you blast it into a lake, or a house, or the woods. But giving up accuracy for distance makes sense in a whole whole lot of cases.

id love to play against someone from the middle of the fairway all day long as they hit out of the rough 15 yards closer to the green. 2 players of = skill, ill take the guy who is in the fairway all day vs the other guy.

 

Wierd, I thought the whole discussion had turned to basketball.

 

Anyway, Playing Foxfire Players Course near Columbus, OH tomorrow morning. Flyovers of the course are here. Last 5 holes are pretty interesting. I honestly think I may have to play a 5i off the tee!

 

BT

[rawdog]

id love to see the discussion between certain peeps here and stenson......that would be entertainment

 

I dunno. He seems like a pretty humble, self-aware kind of guy.

 

https://www.golfdige...uering-the-yips

 

Oh, and pretty smart.

 

Stenson could have picked a long iron that would have taken the right bunker and the strand of traps on the left out of play. Instead, he immediately pulled out the most reliable club in his bag. Even though it hides under a headcover for one of the clubs from Callaway's current line, the circa-2010 Diablo Octane Tour 3-wood with the electric-blue shaft is what Stenson has been using to overpower courses for more than six years—an eternity in the world of tour equipment

"It's shorter than standard, and it has about 12.8 degrees of loft," says Peter Cowen, Stenson's coach for the past 15 years. "He can hit it down a funnel, really. He can hit driver, too, but I don't know why you'd need anything else. When he's at his best, it's like watching a video game."{C}

The man from Gothenburg, Sweden, didn't hesitate. Starting his swing with its idiosyncratic hitch away from the ball, he smashed the ancient 3-wood for the fifth time on the back nine. The ball came off high and straight and kicked slightly right when it landed. It bounded hard toward Norman's bunker, but Stenson had already picked up his tee and retreated to the back of the tee box to wait for Mickelson to play.

 

Yeah, he did what Broadie suggests and didn't lay up.

 

Has zero to do with any of the nonsense you're spewing.

[North Butte]

PSG, you're being too simplistic. You have to take course layout into consideration. If you're playing a cow pasture then sure, being a little wayward from the fairway won't hurt you but if you're playing a well treed course then being off in the rough is going to lead to much tougher approaches for an average Joe who can't regularly work the ball both ways but has to find a way to fit his natural "fade" or "draw" into a shot at the green.

 

And that's assuming you can even find the wayward driver shot in the trees and have a shot with it. I hit two 3 hybrids of one of our narrow holes this weekend, both landed on the edge of the tree line (not deep into them) I only found the provisional and still had to take an unplayable. If I had hit driver, it would have taken a lot more balls to get one I could actually play.

 

Nobody is advocating blasting the ball where you can't find it. We were discussing fairway at 240 vs. rough at 260. Somehow now we're behind trees and not finding our ball. Obviously I'm not advocating that you hit the ball into a penalty area or an area where you have to chip backwards.

 

A whole lot of people work on driver accuracy in a vacuum. I'm saying its player-dependent. If I can work the ball, my "accuracy" is completely different than a 20 cap. The key to driver accuracy is to measure it *in terms of the accuracy of the resulting iron shot*. Driver accuracy, taken on its own, doesn't matter very much*.

 

Measured over several rounds, it is very possible - probably even likely - that a driver that is a little less accurate but longer will result in iron shots that have a tighter proximity to the hole.

 

*This does not mean it doesn't matter if you blast it into a lake, or a house, or the woods. But giving up accuracy for distance makes sense in a whole whole lot of cases.

id love to play against someone from the middle of the fairway all day long as they hit out of the rough 15 yards closer to the green. 2 players of = skill, ill take the guy who is in the fairway all day vs the other guy.

 

Wierd, I thought the whole discussion had turned to basketball.

 

Anyway, Playing Foxfire Players Course near Columbus, OH tomorrow morning. Flyovers of the course are here. Last 5 holes are pretty interesting. I honestly think I may have to play a 5i off the tee!

 

BT

 

The last time I was there I think I hit 6-iron off the tee four times on the back nine.