Backstopping needs to be stopped

[dlygrisse]

Haven't read the entire thread.....BUT...

 

Where do you draw the line? 100 yard wedge shot? Greenside only? What is the definition of greenside?

What if someone sticks one close from 175 or 225 do you make them mark before the next guy plays?

 

Is match play different than stroke play?

 

What if it's 4 ball and they are partners in the Ryder Cup?

 

I say play the ball as it lies and bring back the stymie Damn it! :)

[OldTomMorris]

Are OldTom and Randall from the article one in the same?

 

I sure hope so. Because it gives me the opportunity to say that's the most poorly thought out piece of writing I've seen the Golf Channel publish. I'd be embarrassed and use a nom de plume if I wrote such rubbish.

 

You're having a debate with yourself. No one else sees it as a powder keg or any other such ridiculous demonstrative. If the Masters was decided in 2018 by a guy ricocheting the same shot Finau hit under the same circumstances, but directly in the hole to win by one, I would say good on him.

 

The only decent argument would be under entirely different circumstances where a guy who's well known as a buddy, maybe out of contention, obviously delays marking. If you're going to try and write at least try and pick up on the nuiances of what you're attempting to write about.

 

No I'm just a guy that watches a lot of golf and I'd noticed this happening a lot more in recent times and it was clear to me that it was happening because of a lack effort by players to mark their ball. If a few well known golf writers were making there feeling known on the issue I was interested to hear what the consensus was.

 

I wont be making anymore posts in this discussion but thanks for the advice.

[deadsolid...shank]

Are OldTom and Randall from the article one in the same?

 

I sure hope so. Because it gives me the opportunity to say that's the most poorly thought out piece of writing I've seen the Golf Channel publish. I'd be embarrassed and use a nom de plume if I wrote such rubbish.

 

You're having a debate with yourself. No one else sees it as a powder keg or any other such ridiculous demonstrative. If the Masters was decided in 2018 by a guy ricocheting the same shot Finau hit under the same circumstances, but directly in the hole to win by one, I would say good on him.

 

The only decent argument would be under entirely different circumstances where a guy who's well known as a buddy, maybe out of contention, obviously delays marking. If you're going to try and write at least try and pick up on the nuiances of what you're attempting to write about.

 

No I'm just a guy that watches a lot of golf and I'd noticed this happening a lot more in recent times and it was clear to me that it was happening because of a lack effort by players to mark their ball. If a few well known golf writers were making there feeling known on the issue I was interested to hear what the consensus was.

 

I wont be making anymore posts in this discussion but thanks for the advice.

 

I don't know why you wouldn't continue to post as long as the discussion continues. Your posts have been good. Reasonable and well thought out for how you see it. Even though I'm on the other side of the argument, I can also see where you are coming from with your point of view.

[Sean2]

It's not like it happens all that often.

[hybrid25]

Backstopping sounds like something made up by the same people setting around a big screen waiting for a chance to call the network about a possible infraction, or anal losers..

This.

If there is any sort of advantage that is within the rules of golf that gives a golfer advantage I would recommend to use it. The first time I have heard of this issue was in this thread.

The strange part of this thread is that it's not even winter out yet!

[bladehunter]

JT should just play golf, whenever he voices his opinion he doesn't usually come across as particularly wise.

 

Kind of like the way this sounds? He's a 24 year old kid, how intelligent did you sound on a national podium at that age? Oh wait that's right....

 

 

 

No surprise that a gamecock would be the voice of reason. Go cocks !

[bladehunter]

A player lost his PGA card recently because a leaf hit his ball while it was moving. Perhaps we should apply common sense to other areas of the rule book before worrying too much about this one? Especially when common sense dictates that a player would be helped by that ball sitting on the green about 0.01% of the time.

Actually he didn't lose his card because a leaf hit his ball. He lost his card because he didn't know the rules and thus was assessed a penalty. All he had to do was replay his shot, but he didn't know that and tapped in causing the penalty - and then another penalty for signing an incorrect card. This case was unfortunate, but completely avoidable if he or his caddie actually knew the rules.

Nice try. But it was the leaf. That and the idiotic rule that turns an obvious part of the course into an outside agent.

Unfortunately you are wrong. The penalty was due to the fact that he didn't replay the shot after the leaf hit the ball, not the leaf hitting the ball. Sorry, it was a nice (and correct) try.

 

 

You are talking about the reason he was issued a penalty. I'm talking about what actually caused the penalty to be possible. A damn leaf. Less talk should be made about him not knowing the rule. And more about how stupid the rule is. Ball hits a worm in motion it's rub of the green. Ball hits a leaf in motion it's an outside agency. I can smell bullxxxx when it wafts by sir.

[Potatohead]

JT should just play golf, whenever he voices his opinion he doesn't usually come across as particularly wise.

 

Kind of like the way this sounds? He's a 24 year old kid, how intelligent did you sound on a national podium at that age? Oh wait that's right....

 

 

 

No surprise that a gamecock would be the voice of reason. Go cocks !

 

He's wearing a plaid jacket (I assume this picture isn't 25 years old) AND he's wearing it with a paisley tie. There is no reason here.

[Atrayn]

"What if someone sticks one close from 175 or 225 do you make them mark before the next guy plays?"

 

....Jack Pearsall would

[Roadking2003]

I'm surprised by the number of people that find this acceptable. Personally I don't like and I suspect most golfers who have been playing the game for years will not be comfortable with this. I might be completely misreading the mood on this but it doesn't feel right to me.

 

It's a non issue. First of all, I saw the shot live and Finau's ball would not have gone by 25 feet. Second, you can't pressure these guys to play faster and then get upset when they do. Do you really want these guys to wait even more before hitting? I don't.

 

The odds of hitting another ball are quite small. It would be interesting to see some numbers on this.

[youraway2]

It's not like it happens all that often.

Again today in Italy on the European Tour. No the ball didn't make contact, but the player was obviously using the other players ball as a backstop. Can't remember the amateur's name, but the other player was standing within a few yards, edge of green, and stood there before and while the player played their shot without marking his ball that could obviously "assist" the play of the amateur. It's not just on the PGA Tour, it's on the European Tour as well.

 

I realize many of you don't understand, but it's a good rule to not allow one players ball to intentionally provide possible assistance to the movement of another players ball.

 

Found players name; Lorenzo Scalise, I believe the 18th hole.

[North Butte]

It's not like it happens all that often.

Again today in Italy on the European Tour. No the ball didn't make contact, but the player was obviously using the other players ball as a backstop. Can't remember the amateur's name, but the other player was standing within a few yards, edge of green, and stood there before and while the player played their shot without marking his ball that could obviously "assist" the play of the amateur. It's not just on the PGA Tour, it's on the European Tour as well.

 

I realize many of you don't understand, but it's a good rule to not allow one players ball to intentionally provide possible assistance to the movement of another players ball.

 

Found players name; Lorenzo Scalise, I believe the 18th hole.

 

Take it up with the guys who make the Rules. You can't blame the players for doing exactly what the Rules say they can do.

[hybrid25]

It's not like it happens all that often.

Again today in Italy on the European Tour. No the ball didn't make contact, but the player was obviously using the other players ball as a backstop. Can't remember the amateur's name, but the other player was standing within a few yards, edge of green, and stood there before and while the player played their shot without marking his ball that could obviously "assist" the play of the amateur. It's not just on the PGA Tour, it's on the European Tour as well.

 

I realize many of you don't understand, but it's a good rule to not allow one players ball to intentionally provide possible assistance to the movement of another players ball.

 

Found players name; Lorenzo Scalise, I believe the 18th hole.

 

Take it up with the guys who make the Rules. You can't blame the players for doing exactly what the Rules say they can do.

This^

 

Take it up with the guys who make the Rules. You can't blame the players for doing exactly what the Rules say they can do.

[augustgolf]

It's not like it happens all that often.

 

What has happened is that there are now cameras everywhere on the golf course. From the networks, from independent production companies, and from every friggin' yahoo with a phone with a camera. So, you probably see it more, but I seriously doubt that it is happening more than ever.

 

But, I certainly can see why the tour players would want to exploit this. The greens are firmer and faster, and the ball (yes, the modern, "goes too far" ball) doesn't spin - or at least react - on the grens like balata balls used to.

 

I'm of the opinion that this is just part of the game...no more or less than hitting first on a par 3 when the wind is blowing.

[youraway2]

It's not like it happens all that often.

Again today in Italy on the European Tour. No the ball didn't make contact, but the player was obviously using the other players ball as a backstop. Can't remember the amateur's name, but the other player was standing within a few yards, edge of green, and stood there before and while the player played their shot without marking his ball that could obviously "assist" the play of the amateur. It's not just on the PGA Tour, it's on the European Tour as well.

 

I realize many of you don't understand, but it's a good rule to not allow one players ball to intentionally provide possible assistance to the movement of another players ball.

 

Found players name; Lorenzo Scalise, I believe the 18th hole.

 

Take it up with the guys who make the Rules. You can't blame the players for doing exactly what the Rules say they can do.

This^

 

Take it up with the guys who make the Rules. You can't blame the players for doing exactly what the Rules say they can do.

It's already in the Rules and the Rules don't say they can intentionally leave a ball in position to assist. If fact it clearly says the opposite, a player who believes his ball or another players ball might assist, they should mark their ball or have another ball marked. The Rules even mention that if it is obvious this is occurring, a Referee should get involved. The Committee is where enforcement is lacking. But the bottom line is players are exploiting the Rule by not "agreeing" verbally to leave a ball in place to assist another player. It has been mentioned by PGA players that this practice is ongoing, sort of agreed to before hand.

 

I think I'm wasting my time here -

[rangersgoalie]

Are OldTom and Randall from the article one in the same?

 

I sure hope so. Because it gives me the opportunity to say that's the most poorly thought out piece of writing I've seen the Golf Channel publish. I'd be embarrassed and use a nom de plume if I wrote such rubbish.

 

You're having a debate with yourself. No one else sees it as a powder keg or any other such ridiculous demonstrative. If the Masters was decided in 2018 by a guy ricocheting the same shot Finau hit under the same circumstances, but directly in the hole to win by one, I would say good on him.

 

The only decent argument would be under entirely different circumstances where a guy who's well known as a buddy, maybe out of contention, obviously delays marking. If you're going to try and write at least try and pick up on the nuiances of what you're attempting to write about.

 

No I'm just a guy that watches a lot of golf and I'd noticed this happening a lot more in recent times and it was clear to me that it was happening because of a lack effort by players to mark their ball. If a few well known golf writers were making there feeling known on the issue I was interested to hear what the consensus was.

 

I wont be making anymore posts in this discussion but thanks for the advice.

 

I don't know why you wouldn't continue to post as long as the discussion continues. Your posts have been good. Reasonable and well thought out for how you see it. Even though I'm on the other side of the argument, I can also see where you are coming from with your point of view.

 

 

We're going to have you checked out. That's borderline rational!

[North Butte]

And they don't exploit the Rules in every other possible way every chance they get?

 

The difference is, this is the only "exploit" I can think of THAT DOES NOT BENEFIT THE PERSON DOING THE EXPLOITING.

[jpt1101]

A bit of a twist on the same subject but...have you ever hit a great shot just a couple feet from the hole and before you can get to your ball to mark it, an FC hits his shot and ricochets into your ball and you’re a bit unsure exactly where to replace your ball??

 

That one drives me crazy and happens often enough.

 

I think I remember it happening once to my ball and it has happened maybe a dozen times to other people I'm playing with. That's in 25 years and nearly 3,000 rounds. And we always place our ball back to our best guess as to where it originally was, as the Rules say.

 

It has never struck me as a problem, just something you deal with like taking relief from a fire ant mound or dealing with a ball that hits the flagstick on the fly and bounces off the green. Stuff happens.

 

Wait, what? That's not a relief and/or replace situation...

Right, it's a situation where following the Rules sucks. My point is, when a ball on the green is struck you replace it as close as possible. When a ball hits the flagstick and bounces into trouble you suck it up and deal with it. Sometimes it helps you, some times it hurts you, some times it don't matter one way or the other.

 

Most golfers just do what the Rules specify (as best they understand the Rules) and move on. Sometimes it's a big deal, sometimes it's no big deal. But there's nothing to be gained from the fact that "dealing with it" is often not a 100% totally perfect outcome. The Rules do their best to appropriately address different situations.

 

I don't understand the need to manufacture a debate over someone (or a whole group of people like Tour players) exactly following the Rules of Golf. You do what the Rules say and move on.

 

A ball hitting the flagstick and ending up in a poor position is random. Nothing you can do about it. Not a marking a ball to provide an advantage to another player is deliberate, not random. These are not even close to the same thing.

[HitEmTrue]

And they don't exploit the Rules in every other possible way every chance they get?

 

The difference is, this is the only "exploit" I can think of THAT DOES NOT BENEFIT THE PERSON DOING THE EXPLOITING.

 

Taking advantage of a rule that benefits the player is not the same as breaking a rule.

 

[North Butte]

There's cheating. THAT'S A BAD THING

 

There's taking advantage of a rule that gives you an advantage. THAT'S A GOOD THING

 

There's advantage of a rule that gives you no advantage and could conceivably benefit an opponent. THAT'S NOT EVEN A THING

 

[DrCRHop]

You are talking about the reason he was issued a penalty. I'm talking about what actually caused the penalty to be possible. A damn leaf. Less talk should be made about him not knowing the rule. And more about how stupid the rule is. Ball hits a worm in motion it's rub of the green. Ball hits a leaf in motion it's an outside agency. I can smell bullxxxx when it wafts by sir.

 

What caused the penalty is him not knowing the rules. He's a professional golfer and should know the rules. There are many things that could cause a penalty to be possible - but that's not an excuse. He was frustrated and went ahead and tapped in - rather than stopping and thinking about the situation. No ones fault but his own, not the leaf.

[HitEmTrue]

There's cheating. THAT'S A BAD THING

 

There's taking advantage of a rule that gives you an advantage. THAT'S A GOOD THING

 

There's advantage of a rule that gives you no advantage and could conceivably benefit an opponent. THAT'S NOT EVEN A THING

 

So, is the guy who is taking his chip shot, while a ball sits behind the cup, taking advantage of a rule?

[North Butte]

There's cheating. THAT'S A BAD THING

 

There's taking advantage of a rule that gives you an advantage. THAT'S A GOOD THING

 

There's advantage of a rule that gives you no advantage and could conceivably benefit an opponent. THAT'S NOT EVEN A THING

 

So, is the guy who is taking his chip shot, while a ball sits behind the cup, taking advantage of a rule?

 

No because he did not do anything. It's just lucky for him, like a grandstand or a fortunate gust of wind at just the right time.

[bladehunter]

You are talking about the reason he was issued a penalty. I'm talking about what actually caused the penalty to be possible. A damn leaf. Less talk should be made about him not knowing the rule. And more about how stupid the rule is. Ball hits a worm in motion it's rub of the green. Ball hits a leaf in motion it's an outside agency. I can smell bullxxxx when it wafts by sir.

 

What caused the penalty is him not knowing the rules. He's a professional golfer and should know the rules. There are many things that could cause a penalty to be possible - but that's not an excuse. He was frustrated and went ahead and tapped in - rather than stopping and thinking about the situation. No ones fault but his own, not the leaf.

 

 

is this thread still going? literally about nothing...

 

again.. my point was that the rule is ignorant at best and purposefully hypocritical at worse.... the fact that their are exceptions to the relief ( a worm etc) and that the rule is written with the spirit of helping the player yet it cost him 4 strokes is just hard to imagine ... eliminating the rule as it is and re-writing one that including only a few specific outsode agencys ( dogs birds fallen tree etc) would make much more sense/..so if we rewind back to when this rule was written it indeed is the writers fault and then his accomplice ..the leaf...

[DrCRHop]

is this thread still going? literally about nothing...

 

again.. my point was that the rule is ignorant at best and purposefully hypocritical at worse.... the fact that their are exceptions to the relief ( a worm etc) and that the rule is written with the spirit of helping the player yet it cost him 4 strokes is just hard to imagine ... eliminating the rule as it is and re-writing one that including only a few specific outsode agencys ( dogs birds fallen tree etc) would make much more sense/..so if we rewind back to when this rule was written it indeed is the writers fault and then his accomplice ..the leaf...

Sure, whatever rule is "dumb" get rid of it. No need to know the rules. His only accomplice was his caddie. Keep with the excuses if that's what makes your argument.

 

This thread is ridiculous. "Backstopping" when there are many other bigger "backstops" - but let's focus on the ball as being the most egregious. Slow week in golf. Trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

[augustgolf]

I smell a lock.....

 

 

 

[jpt1101]

There's cheating. THAT'S A BAD THING

 

There's taking advantage of a rule that gives you an advantage. THAT'S A GOOD THING

 

There's advantage of a rule that gives you no advantage and could conceivably benefit an opponent. THAT'S NOT EVEN A THING

 

So, is the guy who is taking his chip shot, while a ball sits behind the cup, taking advantage of a rule?

 

No because he did not do anything. It's just lucky for him, like a grandstand or a fortunate gust of wind at just the right time.

 

Wrong. So wrong.

[Shilgy]

Are OldTom and Randall from the article one in the same?

 

I sure hope so. Because it gives me the opportunity to say that's the most poorly thought out piece of writing I've seen the Golf Channel publish. I'd be embarrassed and use a nom de plume if I wrote such rubbish.

 

You're having a debate with yourself. No one else sees it as a powder keg or any other such ridiculous demonstrative. If the Masters was decided in 2018 by a guy ricocheting the same shot Finau hit under the same circumstances, but directly in the hole to win by one, I would say good on him.

 

The only decent argument would be under entirely different circumstances where a guy who's well known as a buddy, maybe out of contention, obviously delays marking. If you're going to try and write at least try and pick up on the nuiances of what you're attempting to write about.

 

No I'm just a guy that watches a lot of golf and I'd noticed this happening a lot more in recent times and it was clear to me that it was happening because of a lack effort by players to mark their ball. If a few well known golf writers were making there feeling known on the issue I was interested to hear what the consensus was.

 

I wont be making anymore posts in this discussion but thanks for the advice.

 

I don't know why you wouldn't continue to post as long as the discussion continues. Your posts have been good. Reasonable and well thought out for how you see it. Even though I'm on the other side of the argument, I can also see where you are coming from with your point of view.

 

 

We're going to have you checked out. That's borderline rational!

Where's that report button? We cannot permit this on wrx! :)

[Shilgy]

 

is this thread still going? literally about nothing...

 

 

OMG, it's the Seinfeld thread. No soup for you! :)

[Valtiel]

is this thread still going? literally about nothing...

 

 

OMG, it's the Seinfeld thread. No soup for you! :)