Do you bet?

[b.helts]

Yes. Yes please. Yeah, I’ll give you shots. No man, I don’t need anything, let’s do this. How much? Done. Toss a tee for honors?

[Oveezy]

It makes the game fun. It makes you concentrate and take the game a little more serious. It’s 30 bucks and not my whole check.

[Under2hours]

I'm amazed at people who happily lose money gambling.

 

I remember year's ago a group got mad when one person organized a great deal at a high end public course with the stipulation you had to throw in $20 for skins. I thought it was a blatant cash grab by the better golfers who could make birdies and skins and said so (no HC). I asked why would a 20+ HC play skins with a 5 HC and many tried to explain that anyone can can win a skin...... Sure one can get lucky but the odds are long.odds

 

There is gambling and having a friendly bet ($20 or less) on golf, money just goes around as a general rule or on the table for a drink.

 

As someone who has traded markets all my life I am somewhat bemused when someone says they don't gamble but they are mortgaged to the hilt and are punting a superannuation account (401k in a US context) in equities. Not saying that's you Under2hours, its just the way people are prepared to ignore some risks.

 

Regarding skins, they are handicapped. I have been going to an event where we play skins (30-40 players for 25 years), if you think high handicappers are disadvantaged, I have the evidence that you are mistaken.

Yes, we generally play for something. I play at a couple of different clubs and also play in a couple of tournament leagues. Have won as much as $525 in one round and the most I have lost was $200 in a round. Generally, winning or losing $50 is big for our side games.

 

To get this great deal ($50 where at the time the green fees were $125+) one had to thrown in for the skins (no HC's). I voiced that I had no interest in playing and trhis was a cash grab for the most part for the better players to win money.

 

I was amazed how many people seemed happy to throw in their $20 with no chance of winning and were arguing the point that anyone can make a birdie and win a skin. Sure I can birdie a hole vs. Jordan Speith, but in all likelihood he beats me on the other 17 holes..

[jut111]

Handicapped skins are pretty much impossible to win for low cappers with a group of any decent size. I’d have happily given my $20 and shut up. You’re still getting a sweet deal and maybe you catch lightening in a bottle

[Under2hours]

Handicapped skins are pretty much impossible to win for low cappers with a group of any decent size. I'd have happily given my $20 and shut up. You're still getting a sweet deal and maybe you catch lightening in a bottle

Handicapped skins are pretty much impossible to win for low cappers with a group of any decent size. I'd have happily given my $20 and shut up. You're still getting a sweet deal and maybe you catch lightening in a bottle

 

No I was not....... Green Fees were set up at $50. Why do I want to throw in money where I don't have a fair chance (i.e. if 20 people I would be okay if I had a 5% chance of winning, but not if 1%).

 

Another way to look at it. Your friend says he got a great deal for a foursome and $50 each however he's all have to toss in $20 and winner get's the $60 and he's 10 shots better then you. Sure you can catch lightning in a bottle but would you play?

[jut111]

You said a condition of playing for $50 was putting in $20 for skins. I'm no accountant, but you're still paying 50 +20 = 70 vs $125 + right? I'm assuming you were interested in playing the course?

 

Consider it $50 greens fee and a $20 lottery ticket.

[Under2hours]

You said a condition of playing for $50 was putting in $20 for skins. I'm no accountant, but you're still paying 50 +20 = 70 vs $125 + right? I'm assuming you were interested in playing the course?

 

Consider it $50 greens fee and a $20 lottery ticket.

You said a condition of playing for $50 was putting in $20 for skins. I'm no accountant, but you're still paying 50 +20 = 70 vs $125 + right? I'm assuming you were interested in playing the course?

 

Consider it $50 greens fee and a $20 lottery ticket.

Missing the point. I saw no reason to throw in $20 and found it it a pathetic cash grab by the organizer.

 

Simply could have organized a skins game for those interested.

[jut111]

Cool, then stay home. You organize an outing and get your group a substantial discount, you make the rules.

[Under2hours]

Cool, then stay home. You organize an outing and get your group a substantial discount, you make the rules.

And that wouldn't include trying to fleece them of extra cash.

[BradNelson22]

We do... mostly more than I am comfortable with :)

[Hilltopper413]

I still have a hard time believing there are THIS MANY people who don’t drink or gamble on the course. I must be at a club full of degenerates!

[daegyu]

I'm amazed at people who happily lose money gambling.

 

I remember year's ago a group got mad when one person organized a great deal at a high end public course with the stipulation you had to throw in $20 for skins. I thought it was a blatant cash grab by the better golfers who could make birdies and skins and said so (no HC). I asked why would a 20+ HC play skins with a 5 HC and many tried to explain that anyone can can win a skin...... Sure one can get lucky but the odds are long.odds

 

There is gambling and having a friendly bet ($20 or less) on golf, money just goes around as a general rule or on the table for a drink.

 

As someone who has traded markets all my life I am somewhat bemused when someone says they don't gamble but they are mortgaged to the hilt and are punting a superannuation account (401k in a US context) in equities. Not saying that's you Under2hours, its just the way people are prepared to ignore some risks.

 

Regarding skins, they are handicapped. I have been going to an event where we play skins (30-40 players for 25 years), if you think high handicappers are disadvantaged, I have the evidence that you are mistaken.

Yes, we generally play for something. I play at a couple of different clubs and also play in a couple of tournament leagues. Have won as much as $525 in one round and the most I have lost was $200 in a round. Generally, winning or losing $50 is big for our side games.

 

To get this great deal ($50 where at the time the green fees were $125+) one had to thrown in for the skins (no HC's). I voiced that I had no interest in playing and trhis was a cash grab for the most part for the better players to win money.

 

I was amazed how many people seemed happy to throw in their $20 with no chance of winning and were arguing the point that anyone can make a birdie and win a skin. Sure I can birdie a hole vs. Jordan Speith, but in all likelihood he beats me on the other 17 holes..

 

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That statement you made shows why you don't gamble, and why you don't understand people that do.

[deadsolid...shank]

Cool, then stay home. You organize an outing and get your group a substantial discount, you make the rules.

And that wouldn't include trying to fleece them of extra cash.

 

 

Would you have been happy to play the course for a 70$ green fee?

If so, why not just consider it a $70 green fee and be happy with the heavily discounted deal. And don't even worry about the skins games. But if you do happen to win a skin (which while maybe unlikely, is still possible) be sure to say that you don't want the money because the the extra $20 was a cash grab.

 

The old phrase "don't cut off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind here.

[MrJones]

My group plays for small money. It keeps the game interesting even when you're having a bad round. But it does suck hard when you're playing like dog crap AND bleeding money.

 

I'll only play for what I know I can afford to pay out.

[TheCityGame]

When I first played golf as a kid, it was either $.25 skins with my friends, or a $2 game where you showed up at the course at 6:30 in the morning and we picked teams like we were on the playground. I've never played golf not for money.

 

I know we all have different reasons for playing, but I just think the game of golf is absurd. Trying to get a ball into a hole in a certain number of strokes is a completely arbitrary activity.

 

It starts to take form when you're there with another person and the game becomes, "I can get the ball in that hole in fewer strokes than you."

 

But that only even makes sense when you add stakes to it. Otherwise it's like playing poker for matchsticks. Why not stay in every pot? Why not shoot at every single flagstick?

 

We (especially in America) like to treat it like it's a personal journey to improvement, but that still only gets you back to step 1 -- you're improving at something absurd.

 

I was recently reading (listening, actually) to "A Course Called Scotland" by Tom Coyne. He talked about how the British Open was started basically so a couple courses could get together and gamble on their "horses" against each other. He claimed it was bascially started as a reason to gamble. I have a hard time imagining people going out in the old days and playing golf to "relax" or "lower their handicap" or whatever. To me, the game is a gambling game.

 

Actually since it's fresh in my mind, this past weekend was one of the few times we weren't gambling -- it was club championship.

[North Butte]

I have a hard time imagining people going out in the old days and playing golf to "relax" or "lower their handicap" or whatever. To me, the game is a gambling game.

 

Along with its fundamental "absurdity" (good point) golf is also an all-encompassing activity. Unlike most sports, let's say tennis or basketball for example, there is a perfectly enjoyable and relaxing side of golf if we choose to just go walk the course and knock the ball toward the hole repeatedly.

 

When I was a kid (never set foot on a golf course until I was grown, out of college and married) I'd spend hours out shooting free throws on my backyard hoop. But I never pretended that was anything other than killing time until one of the other neighborhood kids came out and we could play a game. Horse if it were two or three of us, two-on-two or three-on-three if we could get enough kids or twist one of the dad's arms to fill out our group.

 

Golf on the other hand is certainly at it richest and most rewarding when played head to head or on a team or against a group of other players. No doubt, I'm with you on that. But the equivalent in golf to my hours of shooting free throws is much more enjoyable, a brisk round played solo on an empty course is far more varied and engaging.

[TheCityGame]

I enjoy going around a golf course solo, too. I just don't call that golf. I call that "a good walk, improved."

 

I also enjoy going out with a friend and just playing -- I enjoy everything about this game -- but to me, that will never be what golf is. When it doesn't matter externally (money, trophy, beer)if I make a good score on a hole, then it doesn't matter internally. We're just out hiking and swinging.

[North Butte]

Plus if you never play for money you miss out on the sweetest feeling in all of golf.

 

I'm talking about your partner having a good day, you ride him hard like a rented mule all day and your team wins all the money even though you played like pure rubbish.

 

It's like free money and who don't like free money ;-)

[nsxguy]

Don't need to, but once in a blue moon for minimal stakes and that's it.

 

I'm amazed at people who happily lose money gambling.

 

I remember year's ago a group got mad when one person organized a great deal at a high end public course with the stipulation you had to throw in $20 for skins. I thought it was a blatant cash grab by the better golfers who could make birdies and skins and said so (no HC). I asked why would a 20+ HC play skins with a 5 HC and many tried to explain that anyone can can win a skin...... Sure one can get lucky but the odds are long.

 

I enjoy the game plenty and will play games with myself if not playing well.

 

Firstly, NOBODY is happy losing money gambling.

 

I have to admit that you're a lot smarter than some have given you credit for.

 

Then again, with a vanity 'cap like yours, you'd probably get smoked most of the time - smart that you (probably) realize that.

 

As for playing with yourself ? I think that's probably a good idea.

 

 

I'm amazed at people who happily lose money gambling.

 

I remember year's ago a group got mad when one person organized a great deal at a high end public course with the stipulation you had to throw in $20 for skins. I thought it was a blatant cash grab by the better golfers who could make birdies and skins and said so (no HC). I asked why would a 20+ HC play skins with a 5 HC and many tried to explain that anyone can can win a skin...... Sure one can get lucky but the odds are long.odds

 

There is gambling and having a friendly bet ($20 or less) on golf, money just goes around as a general rule or on the table for a drink.

 

As someone who has traded markets all my life I am somewhat bemused when someone says they don't gamble but they are mortgaged to the hilt and are punting a superannuation account (401k in a US context) in equities. Not saying that's you Under2hours, its just the way people are prepared to ignore some risks.

 

Regarding skins, they are handicapped. I have been going to an event where we play skins (30-40 players for 25 years), if you think high handicappers are disadvantaged, I have the evidence that you are mistaken.

 

Yes, we generally play for something. I play at a couple of different clubs and also play in a couple of tournament leagues. Have won as much as $525 in one round and the most I have lost was $200 in a round. Generally, winning or losing $50 is big for our side games.

 

To get this great deal ($50 where at the time the green fees were $125+) one had to thrown in for the skins (no HC's). I voiced that I had no interest in playing and trhis was a cash grab for the most part for the better players to win money.

 

I was amazed how many people seemed happy to throw in their $20 with no chance of winning and were arguing the point that anyone can make a birdie and win a skin. Sure I can birdie a hole vs. Jordan Speith, but in all likelihood he beats me on the other 17 holes..

 

Maybe they looked at it as thought they were still getting a great deal - a $125 course for only $70, AND they might win a skin ?

 

Surely if you've learned anything around here, it's that some/many/most see things differently than you do.

[Roadking2003]

$1/hole and $1/junk dots

 

Junk dots:

 

1 - Greenie

1 - Sandy

1 - Hogan

1 - Pole-ey

2 - Birdie

3 - Eagle

 

Nobody's gettin rich, nobody's gettin poor. Everybody's having fun.

 

But no Fishies or Barkies ?

[North Butte]

When I first took up the game I'd play weekend mornings with some regulars at the public course down the street. One of the bets was greenies on the Par 3's with a couple wrinkles.

 

If you got the closest shot to the hole on a Par 3 you had to make par or better to collect...HOWEVER if you 3-putted you paid everyone else in the group a dollar. Amazing how often a guy would leave a 20-foot first putt a couple feet short and then choke over the second one.

 

And if three of us were on the green and only one guy missed, he paid us each a dollar. I made much more money from that bet than from me actually getting the greenie.

 

What made it cool was this course is very, very short and easy overall. But the short Par 3's had teensy, tiny greens and the long Par 3's are really long (one was over 200 yards from the back tees, the other about 185). So lots of action in the greenies.

[HatsForBats]

Handicapped skins are pretty much impossible to win for low cappers with a group of any decent size.

 

What group size are we talking about? I have 27 events of 9-holes with 6 to 20+ players and see a pretty even dispersion with handicapped skins. Based on the stats I would say the low handicappers have a slight advantage. Looking at just the first 10 events if it was a gross skins game there would be -11 skins for mid/high cappers, +10 skins for our low cappers and 1 low capper would have a skin cancelled out. IMO that would sway things greatly in the favor of the low caps.

[North Butte]

The first private club I belonged to had a "men's club" competition every Saturday. Full handicaps were used and there were players from maybe 4-5 up to near 30, typically 25+ guys each week. Half the pot went to a "points game" and the other half to net skins. The low 'caps never had a chance when there were always a handful of people getting two strokes on some holes.

 

The hardest Par 3 on the course played up like a 40-foot hill and you had to clear a bunker in front then there was OB about 15 yards over the green. Tough hole. It was I think the #6 stroke hole.

 

One Saturday a guy in the group right ahead of me got a Hole-in-One on that hole. Plus he was getting a stroke. Net Zero.

 

He found out after the round that one of the earlier groups had a guy who made birdie getting two strokes. Net zero. No skin. But the Ace guy still had to buy a couple hundred bucks worth of drinks. Hardly fair.

[deadsolid...shank]

When I first took up the game I'd play weekend mornings with some regulars at the public course down the street. One of the bets was greenies on the Par 3's with a couple wrinkles.

 

If you got the closest shot to the hole on a Par 3 you had to make par or better to collect...HOWEVER if you 3-putted you paid everyone else in the group a dollar. Amazing how often a guy would leave a 20-foot first putt a couple feet short and then choke over the second one.

 

And if three of us were on the green and only one guy missed, he paid us each a dollar. I made much more money from that bet than from me actually getting the greenie.

 

What made it cool was this course is very, very short and easy overall. But the short Par 3's had teensy, tiny greens and the long Par 3's are really long (one was over 200 yards from the back tees, the other about 185). So lots of action in the greenies.

 

We also added that if you get closest to the pin on all four par threes, it’s another $10 a man. No one has done it yet.

[North Butte]

When I first took up the game I'd play weekend mornings with some regulars at the public course down the street. One of the bets was greenies on the Par 3's with a couple wrinkles.

 

If you got the closest shot to the hole on a Par 3 you had to make par or better to collect...HOWEVER if you 3-putted you paid everyone else in the group a dollar. Amazing how often a guy would leave a 20-foot first putt a couple feet short and then choke over the second one.

 

And if three of us were on the green and only one guy missed, he paid us each a dollar. I made much more money from that bet than from me actually getting the greenie.

 

What made it cool was this course is very, very short and easy overall. But the short Par 3's had teensy, tiny greens and the long Par 3's are really long (one was over 200 yards from the back tees, the other about 185). So lots of action in the greenies.

 

We also added that if you get closest to the pin on all four par threes, it’s another $10 a man. No one has done it yet.

 

Heck it’s been a while since I even HIT all four, much less be closest! That ought pay big ?

[theothertwo]

Regular group, either $2 nassau or $5 at the most. We all have a drink after the round and 100% of the time, the winners pay for the drinks. I don't bet when playing with strangers.

[North Butte]

Regular group, either $2 nassau or $5 at the most. We all have a drink after the round and 100% of the time, the winners pay for the drinks. I don't bet when playing with strangers.

 

If it’s someone I don’t know I always propose match play, straight up with Sunningdale Rules, loser buys drinks after the round.

[daegyu]

The first private club I belonged to had a "men's club" competition every Saturday. Full handicaps were used and there were players from maybe 4-5 up to near 30, typically 25+ guys each week. Half the pot went to a "points game" and the other half to net skins. The low 'caps never had a chance when there were always a handful of people getting two strokes on some holes.

 

The hardest Par 3 on the course played up like a 40-foot hill and you had to clear a bunker in front then there was OB about 15 yards over the green. Tough hole. It was I think the #6 stroke hole.

 

One Saturday a guy in the group right ahead of me got a Hole-in-One on that hole. Plus he was getting a stroke. Net Zero.

 

He found out after the round that one of the earlier groups had a guy who made birdie getting two strokes. Net zero. No skin. But the Ace guy still had to buy a couple hundred bucks worth of drinks. Hardly fair.

 

This is why my group never plays skins game with full handicap. We don't think anyone should win multiple skins with a double or triple bogey, no matter how bad that player is. Side bets stroke/match always full handicap. And we cap the carryover to 3 holes to minimize some of the luck.

[jut111]

Handicapped skins are pretty much impossible to win for low cappers with a group of any decent size.

 

What group size are we talking about? I have 27 events of 9-holes with 6 to 20+ players and see a pretty even dispersion with handicapped skins. Based on the stats I would say the low handicappers have a slight advantage. Looking at just the first 10 events if it was a gross skins game there would be -11 skins for mid/high cappers, +10 skins for our low cappers and 1 low capper would have a skin cancelled out. IMO that would sway things greatly in the favor of the low caps.

 

My only exposure to handicap skins is on an annual myrtle trip with between 30-40 guys. Handicaps range quite wide so guys are getting two strokes on a number of holes.

[HatsForBats]

Handicapped skins are pretty much impossible to win for low cappers with a group of any decent size.

 

What group size are we talking about? I have 27 events of 9-holes with 6 to 20+ players and see a pretty even dispersion with handicapped skins. Based on the stats I would say the low handicappers have a slight advantage. Looking at just the first 10 events if it was a gross skins game there would be -11 skins for mid/high cappers, +10 skins for our low cappers and 1 low capper would have a skin cancelled out. IMO that would sway things greatly in the favor of the low caps.

 

My only exposure to handicap skins is on an annual myrtle trip with between 30-40 guys. Handicaps range quite wide so guys are getting two strokes on a number of holes.

 

If they are not already doing so the number of strokes could be mitigated by everyone playing off the lowest handicappers course handicap. Of course if the lowest index is near scratch it won't help much.

 

The issue with such a large group is I would think it would take a very large number of rounds to get a large enough sample size to come to an informed conclusion.