MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[dcmidnight]

The PGA (or equipment manufacturers) just doesn't (seem to) think that this is an issue like the USGA does. This could be a problem in the long run.

I think we - not we-we necessarily - but I think people said this same thing when the anchored putting ban came up too. "Hey the USGA can do whatever they want, the Tour can tell them to pound sand". And it turns out the Tour folded like a cheap suit and agreed with whatever the USGA wanted. But obviously you're right.

But then again I absolutely loathe the USGA so I'm not an unbiased source of opinion.

[misplacedtexan83]

I have said it for years.. women’s tees get overlooked by most designers.

its like they go from the tips up when designing.

Not all courses but majority.

Im guessing will take years to figure it out .. how long did they rule on the grooves? And amateurs can still use them till 2020?

However manufactures wasn’t wasting time or money on separate clubs

[aiyyer]

Anybody want to give up masters tickets or a Valentine’s Day restaurant table tomorrow?

 

 

[misplacedtexan83]

The ball itself for the pros would be interesting but that’s one of the most consistent thing they are looking for in a ball.

However I think they can play with anything

[Ocgolfrick]

Aiyyer, I have a reservation at Panera Bread in Bethesda on Wisconsin Ave on Valentine's Day, 6:30pm. Send me $50 and its yours. If you go up to the counter and ask for the reservation for OCGolfRick, and they give you an odd look, its perfectly ok. Just go ahead and place your order and sit down. They screw up my reservations a lot, but I'm sure they will have a table for you.

[TheCityGame]

We're getting drive thru and doing it twice.

 

\simpons quotes

[dcmidnight]

Korean food for us, place in Annendale is open 24 hours a day so we dont need a rezz and can show up nice and early.

[2moreTerpz]

Totally agree. The back tees on Original are 6762 yards at a par of 71. Those tees get very very little use. On the weekends I'd bet 3 groups on average play from those tees.

Now you move forward to the white tees. 6300 yards. Par 71. Good golfers hit long shots into a lot of those holes.

The ball does not go too far for an absolutely massive % of golfers.

Maybe it's not a problem at all if we don't care what scores professional golfers shoot or about the fact that the distance has become an increasingly large differentiator among professionals.

[FAbb]

I don't really care that professionals hit the ball such prodigious lengths, or that it's changing the way the game is played at that level. But I'd agree that the fact that some governing bodies do leads to something I do care about.

I care that it's pushing golf courses to be built and expanded to ever-increasing length. Courses that want to have a chance to host professional tournaments are being forced to get longer. As long as there's money to be made hosting professional events, courses are going to line up for the chance to do so. They're building/expanding these courses for such a limited use-case. But they've got to water, fertilize, mow, etc that extra acreage all the time.

[Ocgolfrick]

This came up in Golf Magazine by Undercover Tour pro once if I recall. The gist was: Why worry about par? Just go by total score. A scoreboard would read:

Woods 268

Thomas 269

Koepka 270

...

...

Kaufman 315

 

And of course we've been wired to say- " Hey I birdied that par 4"- but to his point- you scored 3. I kinda get it, but I just enjoy the way things are now. I LIKE seeing these guys bomb it everywhere.

 

[aiyyer]

Thanks, Rick. I will keep the Subway reservations.

 

[vtnerf]

So, there's a distance problem...but we'll limit the ball so the women hit it even shorter!!!! Which means they will take even longer to play.

[vtnerf]

Making a one-ball rule won't fly. Golf balls are not the same. Golf swings are not the same. Golf clubs are not the same. Golf courses are not the same. Heck, even golf holes aren't the same. Why would a "same ball" scenario fit within the spirit of the game? All because some old guys are mad they didn't get to hit it that far back in their day? Bullocks. Things can be done to a course where a tournament is held to address things. Just ask Merion. A true bandbox of a course. They lengthened some holes (Heck, they placed the tee box on the putting green for #12!) but also trimmed the fairways to lead to bunkers if you were off line, taking away the safety net of the first cut. The rough was up over your shoes on Wednesday, and they didn't cut it until Monday after the event. Green approaches were grown out and trimmed down, penalizing bad shots. There are things that CAN be done for a tournament, that make it a tough test and touch on the distance "issue" at the same time.

 

At the end of the day, does anyone trust the USGA? What they say. What they do. I mean they baked out Chambers. They made Shinnecock into an airport runway. They make the fairways so tight, firm, and fast that even the "average woman golfer" could hit it 225. But yet there's a distance problem. Ok boomers.

 

I bet you they try to roll the ball back and the Premier Golf Tour is up and running within 6 months of the announcement. WithOUT restrictions on the ball.

[tungstenplug]

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Edited February 26, 2023 by tungstenplug

[tungstenplug]

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Edited February 26, 2023 by tungstenplug

[vtnerf]

At the home course level, the head pro needs to play a bigger part. Set up games. Set up events. Make sure the guys are playing together that should be paying together. On busy days, all guys in a group should be playing from the same set of tees unless they can prove from history they won't lag or hold up groups behind them. Most pros simply wave and smile, politely telling you to play well and then asking what you shot when you get back in. They have no idea of ability, distance, demeanor, pace of play of individuals. Hold some local educational classes in the off-season and get the pros engaged. There are some out there worth their salt...and they stand out. Get the rest up to speed. And don't be afraid to call members out for slow play, sandbagging, playing the wrong tees. As much as they are there to help the individual, they are also there for the good of the club, overall.

[Sterling_247]

I guess I just want them to leave things as they are. I don't think that we should continue pushing the distance boundary, but I'm also not picketing for them to roll it back.

I think I'm also one of the few folks on here that doesn't watch the PGA Tour. I generally only watch the majors and unless Tiger is in the hunt I'm not watching four rounds worth of it. I really couldn't care any less what they do to the pros so long as they leave me alone.

 

[SullGolf]

In addition to equipment and fitness improving, I don't hear too many people talking about this being the data-driven approach to golf. Strokes gained quantify how important distance is. The best players realize it and maximize their opportunities by maximizing their numbers. They focus more on improving their distance than they used to, and do it in more targeted and successful ways (e.g. Trackman).

It kind of reminds me about how frequent 3-pointers are in the NBA now, or how frequent the shift is in MLB. That's like golf's bomb & gouge instead of "shot making". BuT THAts noT THE waY THE GaME IS MeAnT tO bE PLaYeD.

 

[dcmidnight]

I still have what I guess is a stupid question. But when guys like Brandel Chamblee pin their arguments to what driving distance was in the 60s and 70s - is it really a fair comparison to compare laser pinpointed distances from today to...whatever they did 60/50/40 years ago?

[vtnerf]

BuT THAts noT THE waY THE GaME IS MeAnT tO bE PLaYeD.

This absolutely reminds me of my Caddie at Kingsbarns. (Yeah, I played it. And LOVED it!!!!!) Short par 4, he gives me the option of trying to drive the green or lay-up with 4 iron. Duh, I didn't go to Scotland to lay up. Hit driver into a rabbit hole 30 yards short of the green. Take my drop, and he says "do NOT go long. There's a 6' drop behind the green." So, of course, I thin one long, over the back. He mumbles. He huffs. He walks to the back with me. I hit a flopper to 18" and knock it in for par. Walking to the next tee box I casually say "solid up and down for par right there, huh." He snaps back at me with "Maybe next time you'll play it the way the hole is meant to be played." you know what homie, that's gonna affect your tip! And, suck it! A par is a par, a 4 is a 4!

 

[dcmidnight]

I'm 99% sure I know what hole you are talking about going for it was not the right play.

But NICE PAR.

[dcmidnight]

I like the new Nerf of the last few months...

[vtnerf]

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/xTg8ANCxmXD8T8MeOc/giphy.gif

[vtnerf]

Brandel is there to sell ratings. He's a shock jock. Some of his ramblings are correct...I mean...they HAVE to be just based on odds. But when he rests a case on the 1960's.........

Heck, I made it until my senior year in high school without a metal wood in a my bag. But I somehow managed to lead the team and qualify for states. Get the ball in the hole.

 

And USGA, do some introspective work for the only single one golf tournament you decide to host for the PGA players all year long. You gave us lip service last year, and you proved you cannot be trusted or believed. Figure that out first, then worry about a "long" golf course for 99.9% of the golfers out there.

 

[ceejay81]

I originally had Finau but changed at the last second to JT.

Miss that cut or W/D, Bubba!!

[dcmidnight]

I went with Casey *this week. Sort of in tank mode for this quarter with an early MC but Streelman last week was my "tank pick" and I made up ground on the whole field.

[TheCityGame]

"I guess I just want them to leave things as they are. I don't think that we should continue pushing the distance boundary, but I'm also not picketing for them to roll it back."

Right.

That's the view that I don't think we're seeing enough of. Status quo is always the toughest case to make because you're arguing for "inaction" against "action". Golf is not RUINED right now. Golf is fine. Seeing Rory hit a 320 yard drive followed by a 100 yard lob wedge is no more or less entertaining to me than seeing Rory hit one 280 and have a 140 9 iron in.

But, I don't want to see it stretched any further by equipment gains.

Sure, we've obsoleted some courses, and I think the USGA AND THE PGA have to be on guard about obsoleting everything, but we're not there yet and if you leave balls and drivers where they are, you might have MORE guys hitting 310 in the future, but (KEY POINT) you're not going to have 20 guys on tour hitting it 380, and that seems to be what the USGA is most worried about. That's just not going to happen. There are limits on humans. We're not ever going to be running 90 minute marathons. They've tried to cross the 2 hour barrier for years, and they've only been able to do it with an equipment upgrade, and pacers.

BTW, Tungsten_plug, one of the ideas in the foreplay with Brandel (I think that was it) podcast was about lowering tee height. Not a ball off the ground, but lowered tee heights. That's SORT OF enforceable I guess.

[SullGolf]

I figures Bubba was the obvious pick, but not that obvious. I saw him pretty far down the pick board (according to the site) around the 20-30th picks, and was thinking he could slip through the cracks.

[FAbb]

"if you leave balls and drivers where they are, you might have MORE guys hitting 310 in the future, but (KEY POINT) you're not going to have 20 guys on tour hitting it 380, and that seems to be what the USGA is most worried about"

 

That's what I was getting at last week. The longest players aren't really any longer than they were 10+ years ago. The field has gotten longer, but they're bumping up against the same ceiling, essentially.

[vtnerf]

Sure, we've obsoleted some courses

 

We've obsoleted our thoughts and approaches to courses. Merion was under 7,000 yards and the winning score was +1. Obsolete is strong word. Rough can be grown up. Fairways can end, or be limited in distance off the tee. Rakes can be altered. (I know, I know....) The entire argument that we HAVE to push tees back and lengthen is a cop out and lazy. It's not a binary option; A or B. There are several things that can be done to accomplish "higher scores." And let's be honest, that's what the USGA wants. (See US Open set-ups and rhetoric.)