About Sam Snead's PGA Tour wins total...

[bscinstnct]

If Tiger was driving from event to event in an antique, would he have won 80+ times? Using a local caddie on courses that were not groomed to the max? Snead's record reflects the time and conditions of that time. This is why a valid comparison of such disparate eras is impossible. BTW, remember Ben Hogan's accident? He was driving from Phoenix to Ft. Worth.

 

Would Snead win 80+ against modern fields? The luxury you talk about in modern times would apply to all players in the game today, not just Tiger. It gives them more time to practice. It has globalized the talent pool. The modern equipment makes it much easier for the 200th or 500th ranked guy to compete with the #1 ranked guy. Tiger has said he wishes everyone still had to play persimmon and balata. Great players have an advantage with that older equipment compared to their peers.

 

Arthroscopic surgery didn't come into its own until long after Snead's generation had retired. Tiger's career doesn't happen without modern medicine. Or at least his swing would look very very different on account of his back and knees and so on.

 

Its interesting. If you look at the timeline....

 

"December 1994: Surgery on left knee to remove two benign tumors and scar tissue.

 

Dec. 13, 2002: Surgery on left knee to remove fluid inside and outside the ACL and remove benign cysts from his left knee. Misses the season opener in 2003.

 

August 2007: Ruptures the ACL in his left knee while running on a golf course after the British Open, but is able to keep playing. Wins five of the last six tournaments he plays, including the PGA Championship for his 13th major.

 

April 15, 2008: Two days after the Masters, has arthroscopic surgery on his left knee to repair cartilage damage.

 

May 2008: Advised weeks before the U.S. Open that he has two stress fractures of the left tibia and should rest for six weeks, the first three weeks on crutches.

 

June 24, 2008: Eight days after winning the U.S. Open, has surgery to repair the ACL in his left knee by using a tendon from his right thigh. Additional cartilage damage is repaired. Misses the rest of the season and does not return until the Match Play Championship at the end of February 2009. "

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.pga.com/news/pga-tour/complete-list-tiger-woods-injuries

 

So, its hard to say if the 2002 surgery was arthroscopic or necessary but it was not as extensive for sure as the cartilage/ACL surgeries is 2008.

 

You could argue he would still have 14 majors and the big bulk of his tour wins even if his career ended in 2008.

 

 

I dont like the comparison to Snead. Very different eras. Hard to say how good Snead would have been now. Guy was a total stud and who knows how he would have done with modern equipment and coaching.

 

I think its fair to say each is the biggest winner of his own era.

[Hawkeye77]

If Tiger beats Phil will that count as a win?

 

 

In more ways than one.

 

I can only imagine the nightmares Phil will have tossing and turning on his antiseptic mattress when Tiger hits #1 in the world again or wins another US Open. Despite public opinion, Phil's "darkest hour" was NOT that putting display at Shinnecock. The best is yet to come as Phil gets more and more frustrated with his inability to play at a higher level.

 

I sense a new commercial - "Are you looking right here Ferguson?" Then a drive blistered without warning! "I can do anything with this ball!"

 

Then again, he'd probably miss you and hit your picture window, lol.

[tiderider]

US Amateurs are not majors - they are only referred to as such by a certain group of golf elite who call them as such in order to talk about Bobby Jones' grand slam.

 

Has Ricky Barnes ever been introduced as the winner of a major? No.

 

they were a major when he won that grand slam ... he's always been cited as having 13 majors ... that's the number nicklaus targeted (whether he admits it or not)

 

What do you mean admits? He has openly stated that Jones' majors were the one statistic he had "cold". I'm confused on that one, sorry.

 

i read a statement in an article where he said he did not keep up with jones' number and was actually unaware when he tied it/broke it ... a bit more certain about this than the "20 majors", but i will admit, i am older than i care to admit in body and mind, so i will take that with a grain of salt

[Hawkeye77]

US Amateurs are not majors - they are only referred to as such by a certain group of golf elite who call them as such in order to talk about Bobby Jones' grand slam.

 

Has Ricky Barnes ever been introduced as the winner of a major? No.

 

they were a major when he won that grand slam ... he's always been cited as having 13 majors ... that's the number nicklaus targeted (whether he admits it or not)

 

What do you mean admits? He has openly stated that Jones' majors were the one statistic he had "cold". I'm confused on that one, sorry.

 

i read a statement in an article where he said he did not keep up with jones' number and was actually unaware when he tied it/broke it ... a bit more certain about this than the "20 majors", but i will admit, i am older than i care to admit in body and mind, so i will take that with a grain of salt

 

Yep, you are correct about Jack's statement in that regard which I always took as kind of a "Jack thing", but he said it for sure and it is a bit of a disconnect/incnosistency from his focus on Jones' record when he was a junior and his focus on majors in general.

[gatorpedsMD]

Snead’s win list has multiple BS “wins” on it. Tiger def most legit tour wins period.

[Golfnutgalen]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Billy Casper 51 wins

7. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

8. Walter Hagen 43 wins (from -45)

8. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

10. Tom Watson 39 wins

[MadGolfer76]

Let’s not forget that tiger has over 100 victories worldwide

 

Let's not forget that players in Snead's era had to lose money in order to play internationally.

[redfirebird08]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

Remove the Tour Championship and Tournament of Champions from Tiger's win list. Both are very small field events. I believe he has 5 wins for these two tournaments, so that puts him at 75.

[Darth Putter]

Let’s not forget that tiger has over 100 victories worldwide

 

Let's not forget that players in Snead's era had to lose money in order to play internationally.

 

They also often made more money playing in exhibition matches than winning regular full field tournaments.

[MadGolfer76]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

What would Tiger's total be if you leave out limited field events? Just curious...

 

Let’s not forget that tiger has over 100 victories worldwide

 

Let's not forget that players in Snead's era had to lose money in order to play internationally.

 

They also often made more money playing in exhibition matches than winning regular full field tournaments.

 

Is that somehow different from today?

 

Tiger vs Phil for 10 million is still on the books, right? ;)

[Darth Putter]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

What would Tiger's total be if you leave out limited field events? Just curious...

 

Let’s not forget that tiger has over 100 victories worldwide

 

Let's not forget that players in Snead's era had to lose money in order to play internationally.

 

They also often made more money playing in exhibition matches than winning regular full field tournaments.

 

Is that somehow different from today?

 

Tiger vs Phil for 10 million is still on the books, right? ;)

 

Much harder to pull that off today as opposed to back in the day due to PGA Tour rules. I can't imagine how many big money matches Tiger has had to turn down in the last twenty years.

[gatorpedsMD]

Let’s just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

[Darth Putter]

Let's just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

 

Name one golfer that you think Tiger wouldn't absolutely destroy head to head.

[cdnglf]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

What would Tiger's total be if you leave out limited field events? Just curious...

 

Depending on your definition of limited field...

 

4 Masters

18 WGCs

2 Fedex Playoff

3 TC

2 Kapalua

 

The invitationals are 120 man fields:

8 Bay Hill

5 Memorial

2 Quicken

 

Let's just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

 

Name one golfer that you think Tiger wouldn't absolutely destroy head to head.

 

Anthony Kim (WRX Ultimate Universe Edition)

[MadGolfer76]

 

Much harder to pull that off today as opposed to back in the day due to PGA Tour rules. I can't imagine how many big money matches Tiger has had to turn down in the last twenty years.

 

I think a number of guys back in the day were doing them to survive. Snead was still burying cans in the backyard, by some reports.

[gatorpedsMD]

Let's just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

 

Name one golfer that you think Tiger wouldn't absolutely destroy head to head.

 

Hogan prime not getting a beat down. He would lose but not a Rory beatdown.

 

Jones prime not getting a beat down either. Just a light smacking.

 

[gatorpedsMD]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

What would Tiger's total be if you leave out limited field events? Just curious...

 

Depending on your definition of limited field...

 

4 Masters

18 WGCs

2 Fedex Playoff

3 TC

2 Kapalua

 

The invitationals are 120 man fields:

8 Bay Hill

5 Memorial

2 Quicken

 

Let's just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

 

Name one golfer that you think Tiger wouldn't absolutely destroy head to head.

 

Anthony Kim (WRX Ultimate Universe Edition)

 

No idea why AK so popular here but dud’s a hack that gave up for insurance money. A shart in his general direction.

[Shilgy]

Let's just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

 

Name one golfer that you think Tiger wouldn't absolutely destroy head to head.

Me, he wouldn't want to waste his time. :)

 

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

Remove the Tour Championship and Tournament of Champions from Tiger's win list. Both are very small field events. I believe he has 5 wins for these two tournaments, so that puts him at 75.

Don't forget to remove everyone else's TOC wins.

[dlygrisse]

US Amateurs are not majors - they are only referred to as such by a certain group of golf elite who call them as such in order to talk about Bobby Jones' grand slam.

 

Has Ricky Barnes ever been introduced as the winner of a major? No.

 

At one point the Am was considered more important. And yes they were considered a major by most people until around the turn of the century. At least that’s what my copy of Golf Digest claimed every year. Before the internet GD was THE source for all things golf.

[gatorpedsMD]

US Amateurs are not majors - they are only referred to as such by a certain group of golf elite who call them as such in order to talk about Bobby Jones' grand slam.

 

Has Ricky Barnes ever been introduced as the winner of a major? No.

 

At one point the Am was considered more important. And yes they were considered a major by most people until around the turn of the century. At least that’s what my copy of Golf Digest claimed every year. Before the internet GD was THE source for all things golf.

 

The us and British am 100 percent should be/is a major. Only reason it’s not is to give a 1 up to Jack. We all know reality is 20/17. Lord help us all if tiger wins 3 more...

[Hawkeye77]

US Amateurs are not majors - they are only referred to as such by a certain group of golf elite who call them as such in order to talk about Bobby Jones' grand slam.

 

Has Ricky Barnes ever been introduced as the winner of a major? No.

 

At one point the Am was considered more important. And yes they were considered a major by most people until around the turn of the century. At least that's what my copy of Golf Digest claimed every year. Before the internet GD was THE source for all things golf.

 

The us and British am 100 percent should be/is a major. Only reason it's not is to give a 1 up to Jack. We all know reality is 20/17. Lord help us all if tiger wins 3 more...

 

Then they are tied, in my book. But they didn't stop counting the ams to give a bigger lead to Jack, lol.

[cdnglf]

Who did Tiger beat when he won his US Ams? Was there a single player in the field (other than Tiger) who could have reasonably been considered one of the top 200 players in the world at the time? Top 500?

 

Same question for Jack.

[Hawkeye77]

Who did Tiger beat when he won his US Ams? Was there a single player in the field (other than Tiger) who could have reasonably been considered one of the top 200 players in the world at the time? Top 500?

 

Same question for Jack.

 

Who cares?

 

Jesus vs. Jerry Falwell - crying contest. We know Jesus wept. We know Jerry slobbered. But really, who get this one?

 

These era and "field" comparisons just go nowhere.

[MadGolfer76]

If you guys think this is unfair to Sam Snead then you should check out Ben Hogan who would lose 10 of his official victories with the same qualifications!

 

That list would look something like:

 

1. Tiger Woods 80 wins

2. Sam Snead 74 wins (from -82)

3. jack Nicklaus 71 wins (from -73)

4. Arnold Palmer 60 wins (from -62)

5. Ben Hogan 54 wins (from -64)

6. Byron Nelson 50 wins (from -52)

7. Billy Casper 51 wins

8. Walter Hagen 45 wins

9. Phil Mickelson 43 wins

 

What would Tiger's total be if you leave out limited field events? Just curious...

 

Depending on your definition of limited field...

 

4 Masters

18 WGCs

2 Fedex Playoff

3 TC

2 Kapalua

 

The invitationals are 120 man fields:

8 Bay Hill

5 Memorial

2 Quicken

 

Let's just put it out there.

 

Tiger would DESTROY SAM Snead head to head.

 

Name one golfer that you think Tiger wouldn't absolutely destroy head to head.

 

Anthony Kim (WRX Ultimate Universe Edition)

 

Was thinking more of something like his little mini tournament. 18 players and WR points?

 

Wasn't thinking of the Masters, or something of that caliber.

[MadGolfer76]

US Amateurs are not majors - they are only referred to as such by a certain group of golf elite who call them as such in order to talk about Bobby Jones' grand slam.

 

Has Ricky Barnes ever been introduced as the winner of a major? No.

 

At one point the Am was considered more important. And yes they were considered a major by most people until around the turn of the century. At least that's what my copy of Golf Digest claimed every year. Before the internet GD was THE source for all things golf.

 

The us and British am 100 percent should be/is a major. Only reason it's not is to give a 1 up to Jack. We all know reality is 20/17. Lord help us all if tiger wins 3 more...

 

Then they are tied, in my book. But they didn't stop counting the ams to give a bigger lead to Jack, lol.

 

I think we need to boycott Tiger threads for a while, Hawk. After I read this thread the first time, I wandered around the house looking for my keys for like 20 minutes, only to remember they were on my bureau upstairs. Further proof these things make us dumber...

[Hawkeye77]

If anyone does care, here's a pretty good article about the loss of "major" status for the U.S. Am, and it makes sense.

 

https://triblive.com...f/s_369229.html

 

Edit: just saw the boycott suggestion, lol, while typing. I agree. I was so caught up in researching a rebuttal earlier today during a kind of free moment at work I ALMOST forgot I'd arranged to meet someone somewhere outside my office, lol. Made it, but "lost time" there for a few minutes, lol.

 

Edit 2: and for some reason these threads have me repeating lol, lol!

[MadGolfer76]

If anyone does care, here's a pretty good article about the loss of "major" status for the U.S. Am, and it makes sense.

 

https://triblive.com...f/s_369229.html

 

Edit: just saw the boycott suggestion, lol, while typing. I agree. I was so caught up in researching a rebuttal earlier today during a kind of free moment at work I ALMOST forgot I'd arranged to meet someone somewhere outside my office, lol. Made it, but "lost time" there for a few minutes, lol.

 

Edit 2: and for some reason these threads have me repeating lol, lol!

 

See what I mean?

[cdnglf]

Who did Tiger beat when he won his US Ams? Was there a single player in the field (other than Tiger) who could have reasonably been considered one of the top 200 players in the world at the time? Top 500?

 

Same question for Jack.

 

Who cares?

 

Jesus vs. Jerry Falwell - crying contest. We know Jesus wept. We know Jerry slobbered. But really, who get this one?

 

These era and "field" comparisons just go nowhere.

 

Well, this is more an apples and oranges comparison.

I don't understand why people want to call the US Am a "major" when it is nothing like a major.

[Hawkeye77]

Who did Tiger beat when he won his US Ams? Was there a single player in the field (other than Tiger) who could have reasonably been considered one of the top 200 players in the world at the time? Top 500?

 

Same question for Jack.

 

Who cares?

 

Jesus vs. Jerry Falwell - crying contest. We know Jesus wept. We know Jerry slobbered. But really, who get this one?

 

These era and "field" comparisons just go nowhere.

 

Well, this is more an apples and oranges comparison.

I don't understand why people want to call the US Am a "major" when it is nothing like a major.

 

Mad is right - see this: https://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/golf/s_369229.html

 

I posted it in the wrong thread, lol - and there we go again. Boycott starts now! For real.

[Shilgy]

 

 

Was thinking more of something like his little mini tournament. 18 players and WR points?

 

Wasn't thinking of the Masters, or something of that caliber.

Yes the Hero gets ranking points, no it is not an official win.