What really matters, physics or feel

[ironcat]

You just have to look at all the great coaches out there, if knowing how to do it was more valuable than doing it they'd be on tour, not giving lessons.

[tatertot]

> @BB28403 said:

> No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

>

> So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

 

Just because you can't, doesn't mean no one can. And that's not an insult. I'm in the same boat as you. I don't get the physics angle. But some people do. Me and my buddy play 2-3 times a week together, and we are almost always within 1-2 strokes of each other. But we see - and learn - the game completely different. We're both low single digits. But how we got, and stay, there are polar opposites. He is 100% a physics guys. I'm 100% a feel guy. Other people are somewhere in the middle. That's why there is no ONE way to teach golf.

[BB28403]

> @tatertot said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> >

> > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

>

> Just because you can't, doesn't mean no one can. And that's not an insult. I'm in the same boat as you. I don't get the physics angle. But some people do. Me and my buddy play 2-3 times a week together, and we are almost always within 1-2 strokes of each other. But we see - and learn - the game completely different. We're both low single digits. But how we got, and stay, there are polar opposites. He is 100% a physics guys. I'm 100% a feel guy. Other people are somewhere in the middle. That's why there is no ONE way to teach golf.

 

what i meant in my earlier post is that if a PHD hardly understands it. your buddy is just BSing cuz he heard moron bryson talking about it. Grab yourself a physics text book and give him a test. i'm sure he would fail. Seriously, it would be hilarious to watch him back pedal and you would not have to hear about stupid physics jargon ever again.

 

 

[Fade]

> @BB28403 said:

> No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

>

> So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

 

Did you struggle with just physics, or with most other courses as well?

[BB28403]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @tatertot said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> > >

> > > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

> >

> > Just because you can't, doesn't mean no one can. And that's not an insult. I'm in the same boat as you. I don't get the physics angle. But some people do. Me and my buddy play 2-3 times a week together, and we are almost always within 1-2 strokes of each other. But we see - and learn - the game completely different. We're both low single digits. But how we got, and stay, there are polar opposites. He is 100% a physics guys. I'm 100% a feel guy. Other people are somewhere in the middle. That's why there is no ONE way to teach golf.

>

> what i meant in my earlier post is that if a PHD hardly understands it. your buddy is just BSing cuz he heard moron bryson talking about it. Grab yourself a physics text book and give him a test. i'm sure he would fail.

>

>

 

> @Fade said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> >

> > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

>

> Did you struggle with just physics, or with most other courses as well?

 

oooooh nice burn, it hurts on the inside. lol

[Shilgy]

> @Fade said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> >

> > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

>

> Did you struggle with just physics, or with most other courses as well?

 

I thought BB's point was valid. The so called "laws" of physics in the golf swing are being debated as we speak. If they are absolutes how can they be debated?

[Fade]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Fade said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> > >

> > > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

> >

> > Did you struggle with just physics, or with most other courses as well?

>

> I thought BB's point was valid. The so called "laws" of physics in the golf swing are being debated as we speak. If they are absolutes how can they be debated?

 

You named them "so called "laws"" for good reason.

BB's post was a terrible insult to the human race.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Fade said:

> > > @BB28403 said:

> > > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> > >

> > > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

> >

> > Did you struggle with just physics, or with most other courses as well?

>

> I thought BB's point was valid. The so called "laws" of physics in the golf swing are being debated as we speak. If they are absolutes how can they be debated?

 

The laws of physics are not in question. How a human uses the laws of physics to generate the most efficient and repeatable swing seems to be what is debatable. Lots of biomechanics and what torque is present when.

[mfm22]

Not sure if OP was thinking Instructor or Player - knowing / Feeling

In my Opinion a Good instructor will have the ability to Communicate clearly with student .

This is paramount and challenging as each & every student is different . Body types , athletic ability , age , Physical [ & mental] limitations etc

Some folks understand the spoken word , some need a visual & so on . If said instructor is well versed in the laws of Physics but lacks in communicating Golf skills ... well it's obvious , not going to be very successful .

 

More knowledge is always a good thing , knowing how to apply it is another matter

 

I feel that Bio-mechanics & basic Geometry are important to Teaching & playing Golf . Things evolve , technology is wonderful , a great boom for the Equipment industry .

How would a player know how to swing a club efficiently without having a "feel " for it ? Any sport / skill is taught by learning to feel a motion through repetition . Of course the " motion " should be Mechanically correct for that individual . ** correct for Bubba Watson [ or any pro ] is not correct for me lol

 

[Shilgy]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @Fade said:

> > > > @BB28403 said:

> > > > No one understands physics except PHD graduates and even they only do after 40 years of working . And even then they have doubts.

> > > > Physics are just theories. Theories that are thought to be correct. No one knows if they are 100% correct. Based on the facts we have now , this is what we know as the human race.

> > > > For a Golf player, Coach, anyone other than a PHD , and even a PHD to say they TOTALLY understand physics , well that’s hogwash.

> > > > No one does. Einstein got as close to understanding reality (yes I know not physics) and quantum mechanics than anyone ever. And he still didn’t even crack the surface .

> > > >

> > > > So no, tell this coach to suck an egg. No one knows, and so swing your swing buddy.

> > >

> > > Did you struggle with just physics, or with most other courses as well?

> >

> > I thought BB's point was valid. The so called "laws" of physics in the golf swing are being debated as we speak. If they are absolutes how can they be debated?

>

> The laws of physics are not in question. **How a human uses the laws of physics to generate the most efficient and repeatable swing seems to be what is debatable.** Lots of biomechanics and what torque is present when.

 

Which is exactly what I meant. perhaps that is why I said that for me I do not need to know the physics-just how they work for me and what feels provide the desired results. If the experts do not know exactly how they are used they are not "absolutes" to be followed.

[Pepperturbo]

> @aggiegolfer21 said:

> Would you rather feel weird while making the right swing or feel "right" while making the wrong swing? I've done away with a focus on feel and it has completely changed my game. The movement of the club is all that matters. I think "feel" is very overrated. People have been trying to feel the golf swing for a long time now and this hasn't helped the vast majority. I think this is for a couple of reasons: 1. Feels can change from day to day, a feel that works one day will not work the next and then you have to find the next feel that works (until it doesn't again any more) 2. 99% of the time, the feeling is focused on one or two parts of the swing which leaves the other parts up to chance. I am convinced that golfers will improve much more rapidly by trying to make the correct movements with the club than by trying to perfect "feels". I suppose this puts me on the physics side of this conversation, definitely not the feel side.

 

I know many feel golfers including me and a few anal physic analysts. The latter group is constantly reassessing something, as they are seldom confident or maybe too skeptical. On tour, there are only a few like Bryson DeCambeau. Ever notice the ones put on the clock are physics analysts analyzing a nats bottom.

 

When I stand over the ball getting ready to execute, I am not actually "feeling" the shot. I am actually visualizing the needed shot and style of impact or maybe how far I need to take the club back to execute the desired shot, then make sure my setup is right and takeaway is deliberate. From there what happens, happens. Though not perfect, my swing is, however, grooved and my assessments are typically spot on. Feel does NOT change day to day; it can change in a second "IF" the swing is not grooved and or the golfer isn't confident about the proper shot assessment and or how to execute the desired shot. I took up that game at 40, am a low-single that's self-taught and been playing golf over twenty-five years now.

 

A buddy thinks through a multitude of swing related issues before addressing the ball then mentally goes through something similar when over the ball and when he executes he sometimes changes his mind so anything can result. Have a good day, off to the gym.

[Pepperturbo]

The golf swing is defined in many books, feel is never defined because it's defination varies per person. The problem I see is too many people don't know what type of learning fits their head. There are five learning styles and two interpersonal. If you're using the wrong style you won't learn nearly as easily or fast as using the correct style. Like a person that is logic oriented trying to be feel oriented or visaversa.

 

IMO - For someone to properly exicute a golf swing they must learn the important swing points then be able to connect them together to make a swing that impacts the ball as planned. That's IMO is basic mechanics. You can call it physics. We have to practice swing physics repetitively until they are ingrained in muscle memory. From there you can feel if you have or have not exicuted properly. However, mechanics and feel are needed to become a good golfer. As you improve you use the latter more than the former as the former is ingrained. When I am standing over the ball I am never thinking about connecting swing points just what my swing needs to do to excute my planned shot.