I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[hybrid25]

The folks who want the flag pulled for every putt are dinosaurs soon to become extinct. It makes so much sense just to leave the pin in and putt. What I would like to see is for golf courses to make the pin permanently attached so it cannot be removed, and that would settle all the controversy.

[rogolf]

There is no controversy. The Rules provide a choice with the flagstick, in, out, or attended. The Rules provide lots of other choices also, such as playing from ground under repair or taking relief. All of the choices the Rules provide are available to the player, no one choice supersedes the others, it is up to the player to decide, not any other player.

[Sawgrass]

> @HatsForBats said:

> I would think you would be better off without that type of player in your group. If they are going to have that type of reaction to such a simple question you are better off leaving them behind.

 

Let me be sure I understand this: The “type of player” you wish to leave behind is one who thinks you shouldn’t be advocating that he leave the pin in while you’re on the first tee?

 

Your feeling the need to ask for compliance sets off some people’s “this is a controlling person” alarm. If you don’t mind being seen that way, keep doing what you’re doing.

 

Or, consider the other side of the matter. IMO it’s not a great hardship to you to just relax and let things play out.

[HatsForBats]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > I would think you would be better off without that type of player in your group. If they are going to have that type of reaction to such a simple question you are better off leaving them behind.

>

> Let me be sure I understand this: The “type of player” you wish to leave behind is one who thinks you shouldn’t be advocating that he leave the pin in while you’re on the first tee?

>

> Your feeling the need to ask for compliance sets off some people’s “this is a controlling person” alarm. If you don’t mind being seen that way, keep doing what you’re doing.

>

> Or, consider the other side of the matter. IMO it’s not a great hardship to you to just relax and let things play out.

 

You seemed to be asking to be left behind with your reaction of 'I’d tell you to enjoy your “experiment” without my participation'. Is that not what you meant? If someone had the reaction you seem to be having and said those exact words I would take that as they no longer wanted to play with us not that they just didn't want to participate in the flag in all the time.

 

IMO it's not a great hardship for you to not overreact and just say 'I play with the pin out from X or XX feet in'. You can then judge if the person was trying to be as controlling as you suggest. I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It is just a simple question and one that I can see being asked many times over as many are just beginning their season. I refuse to coddle people that would get so upset over something so small as **asking** if a player is willing to **try** something we assume **might be** new to them.

 

I once joined up with a group of gents that were older and their groups were playing the senior tees. When they asked me if I was OK playing the senior tees with them I didn't see any reason to get offended or think they were trying to control me. I happily agreed to try it and it was a new experience for me. Quite enjoyable even though I played terribly. I don't think they would have been uncomfortable at all if I had decided to play more normal tees for my distances. It was just a simple question.

 

 

[duffer987]

> @HatsForBats said:

> I once joined up with a group of gents that were older and their groups were playing the senior tees. When they asked me if I was OK playing the senior tees with them I didn't see any reason to get offended or think they were trying to control me. I happily agreed to try it and it was a new experience for me. Quite enjoyable even though I played terribly. **I don't think they would have been uncomfortable at all if I had decided to play more normal tees for my distances**. It was just a simple question.

>

It was bad enough to include this non sequitur example to begin with, but you have literally no way of knowing if that is true.

Anyways, Sawgrass's response - as I saw it - was a roundabout answer to a roundabout proposal that was perceived as a passive aggressive imposition.

Neither is exactly ideal amongst people who don't know each other, but I didn't see anywhere where he was going to 'pick up his ball and go home' just that he was going to play how he wanted to, within the rules of the game, nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

[Sawgrass]

> @duffer987 said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > I once joined up with a group of gents that were older and their groups were playing the senior tees. When they asked me if I was OK playing the senior tees with them I didn't see any reason to get offended or think they were trying to control me. I happily agreed to try it and it was a new experience for me. Quite enjoyable even though I played terribly. **I don't think they would have been uncomfortable at all if I had decided to play more normal tees for my distances**. It was just a simple question.

> >

> It was bad enough to include this non sequitur example to begin with, but you have literally no way of knowing if that is true.

> Anyways, Sawgrass's response - as I saw it - was a roundabout answer to a roundabout proposal that was perceived as a passive aggressive imposition.

> Neither is exactly ideal amongst people who don't know each other, but I didn't see anywhere where he was going to 'pick up his ball and go home' just that he was going to play how he wanted to, within the rules of the game, nothing wrong with that.

>

>

>

Thank you, and I'll add that it's virtually impossible that the older players wouldn't have been uncomfortable AT ALL if Hats decided to play from other tees. If they truly didn't care, they would not have asked.

 

That is the point that I am making, though a point clearly not respected by all.

 

[HatsForBats]

> @duffer987 said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > I once joined up with a group of gents that were older and their groups were playing the senior tees. When they asked me if I was OK playing the senior tees with them I didn't see any reason to get offended or think they were trying to control me. I happily agreed to try it and it was a new experience for me. Quite enjoyable even though I played terribly. **I don't think they would have been uncomfortable at all if I had decided to play more normal tees for my distances**. It was just a simple question.

> >

> It was bad enough to include this non sequitur example to begin with, but you have literally no way of knowing if that is true.

> Anyways, Sawgrass's response - as I saw it - was a roundabout answer to a roundabout proposal that was perceived as a passive aggressive imposition.

> Neither is exactly ideal amongst people who don't know each other, but I didn't see anywhere where he was going to 'pick up his ball and go home' just that he was going to play how he wanted to, within the rules of the game, nothing wrong with that.

>

>

>

 

Oh, so you were there to witness it? You saw my initial surprised reaction and their somewhat surprised reaction as I agreed? I took it as they were half joking and half busting my chops which got us off to a good start in my book. I don't recall you being there to hear the conversations throughout the round with comments like 'you better hit a half gap wedge on this long par 4 so that you don't overshoot the green' , "us older guys should have played the kids tees so we could avoid the fairway bunkers too' and always one of my favorites, when I know someone can take a joke, a well placed 'nice nine iron' after they seem pretty happy with one of their drives. We had a great time and I got invited back the next day but sadly I had to decline due to already being booked at another course.

 

I think I got a pretty good idea of how they would have felt if I had played tees further back. Maybe they would have even felt a little uncomfortable for the first few holes without knowing me. Given the rest of the days conversations and the fact that I don't get easily offended, and neither did they, I am very confident they would have been fine with it. I'm pretty sure most people would be uncomfortable if I had seriously retorted in a way that Sawgrass comes off with his retort.

 

[Sawgrass]

> @HatsForBats said:

I'm pretty sure most people would be uncomfortable if I had seriously retorted in a way that Sawgrass comes off with his retort.

>

I won't attempt to speak for "most people" but here is a repeat of what you seem to enjoy calling my "retort":

 

"I’d tell you to enjoy your “experiment” without my participation."

 

If you find that offensive, you are pretty thin-skinned. And for you to continue pursuing this debate adds to that suspicion. Jeez, I'm only asking to be left alone!

 

But go ahead. Instead of being cautious, continue to encourage strangers to play the way you prefer to play. Any other options you like to remove from the rules at your whim, or is this the only one?

[HatsForBats]

> @Sawgrass said:

>"I’d tell you to enjoy your “experiment” without my participation."...

> ...The “experiment” lingo was obviously bs. The legit communication was, “we’re doing it this way and we hope you will too.”

 

The 'enjoy' lingo was obviously bs on your part. You were looking down your nose or visibly perturbed when you retorted with 'enjoy your “experiment” without my participation'. I can't see it any other way from your multiple posts on the subject.

 

I see nothing wrong with a group of 'regular guys' as a whole agreeing to leave the flag in the full 18 holes to try out the new option. If there were 4 strangers (per Mcgeeno's post) that asked to play in the 'regular guys' I play with they would be given the option to leave the flag in the whole way that day or to not play in the 'regular guys' that day. There is no removal of the option for those players. We would have no intent of forcing them to play our way.... unless they agreed to play that way.

[Sawgrass]

> @HatsForBats said:

. . . If there were 4 strangers (per Mcgeeno's post) that asked to play in the 'regular guys' I play with they would be given the option to leave the flag in the whole way that day or to not play in the 'regular guys' that day.

 

The flexibility and generosity of your group is awesome.

 

I give up trying to explain why such controlling behavior can be seen as offensive.

[Matt J]

I really appreciate that the USGA provided another way to divide golfers and create friction inside a GAME of golf.

 

I've come to a place where I simply don't care anymore if the flag is in or out. I can't bring myself to care. I don't think it makes that much of a difference. If my life depended on a 6 footer the pin would be out, but that's probably as much the "visual comfort" of doing it the way I've always done it. In another year or two of this I truly won't care one way or another.

 

I can appreciate the rule for affording a single or a twosome to leave the flag in for long putts, it does quicken the pace. The problem is that singles, twosomes, and threesomes aren't a pace issue. Inside a 4some I think it was quicker when the guy who was closest tended or asked to tend for the furthest then simply pulled the pin when everyone agreed they could see the hole.

 

The super-analysis of whether or not it hurts or helps your chances of making a putt is just another example of how our culture opts for some hyper-competitive angle over appreciating the social nuances of a very old and social game.

[HatsForBats]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> . . . If there were 4 strangers (per Mcgeeno's post) that asked to play in the 'regular guys' I play with they would be given the option to leave the flag in the whole way that day or to not play in the 'regular guys' that day.

>

> The flexibility and generosity of your group is awesome.

>

> I give up trying to explain why such controlling behavior can be seen as offensive.

 

There are 4 players so they make a full group of their own. If they don't want to play by the group rules of the day then they don't get to be part of the 'regular guys' (money or even just for giggles) game. Since they make a group of their own it doesn't make sense to split them up in our groups. If it was 1 player during one of our other modified rules day, for sake of argument say a 4-club max day, then they could play along with one of the groups but could not be a part of the 'regular guys' game if they wanted to play more than 4 clubs. This seems logical to me and if someone would be offended by it I can only shrug. If someone saw it as controlling I could only laugh and shake my head.

 

If it was 1 player on the 'flag in' day then they **might** be invited to play along with one of the groups but not allowed in the game. It would depend on how disruptive the group that would take them on might consider it to be. I know some of our players would deny it outright while others would be more accommodating. Not everyone has to have the same way of thinking to be a part of the 'regular guys'. Someone that got upset over something so simple as Mcgeeno's question might not make it.

[dpb5031]

So your group may have a rule for a given round that it's "mandatory " flag stick in, or you're not welcome to participate?

[HatsForBats]

Hello 'Regular Guys',

 

As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

 

If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

 

Peace, Love and understanding,

_The Commish_

[dpb5031]

> @HatsForBats said:

> Hello 'Regular Guys',

>

> As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

>

> If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

>

> Peace, Love and understanding,

> _The Commish_

 

Ok, I get it. I play in a group that varies from 12-32 guys 4 times per week and we play different formats daily as stipulated by our "commish" to mix things up.

 

Still, I'm confused as to what the purpose of mandating the stick in accomplishes? How does one go about "proving his theory right, wrong, or indifferent"? Just seems like a silly idea to me, as if the "commish" or someone else is trying to convince others or push a particular agenda. I'm sure I'd still show up and play regardless, but I'd likely point out the arbitrary, futile-inaneness of the entire exercise...lol. :D

[Matt J]

I think it's a bit ironic so I'll go ahead and post it....

 

A lot of my normal "games" changed in the last year and I found myself in a position of organizing some of what me and my golf buddies were doing. We had to set down some ground rules as to who would be invited and what our basis over who the invite was extended to or not would be. We came down to very few rules as I'm a KISS kind of guy especially when it comes to recreation. Here they are:

 

1. To compete in the group game you must be walking.

2. The group game will be a "gentleman's wager" of no more than $15 that can be lost per round. Side games are permitted.

3. The new "flag can remain in" rule will be ignored. If you ask for the flag to be left in you may be subject to a nut punch on the next tee box from anywhere from 1 to 3 of your fellow competitors.

[Augster]

> @HatsForBats said:

> Hello 'Regular Guys',

>

> As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

>

> If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

>

> Peace, Love and understanding,

> _The Commish_

 

“To add...this round won’t be posted for handicap because we are waiving the operation of a rule. Which, as you know, is against the rules.”

 

[Sawgrass]

> @Augster said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > Hello 'Regular Guys',

> >

> > As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

> >

> > If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

> >

> > Peace, Love and understanding,

> > _The Commish_

>

> “To add...this round won’t be posted for handicap because we are waiving the operation of a rule. Which, as you know, is against the rules.”

>

The Commish, and all who agree with him to waive a rule of golf, are DQ in any official rules-abiding tournament. But at least he got his way.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @"Matt J" said:

> 2. The group game will be a "gentleman's wager" of no more than $15 that can be lost per round. Side games are permitted.

What is a "gentleman's wager"?

[duffer987]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > Hello 'Regular Guys',

> >

> > As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

> >

> > If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

> >

> > Peace, Love and understanding,

> > _The Commish_

>

> Ok, I get it. I play in a group that varies from 12-32 guys 4 times per week and we play different formats daily as stipulated by our "commish" to mix things up.

>

> Still, I'm confused as to what the purpose of mandating the stick in accomplishes? How does one go about "proving his theory right, wrong, or indifferent"? Just seems like a silly idea to me, as if the "commish" or someone else is trying to convince others or push a particular agenda. I'm sure I'd still show up and play regardless, but I'd likely point out the arbitrary, futile-inaneness of the entire exercise...lol. :D

 

I'm assuming the easily proved theory is that the commish is a richard.

[Matt J]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @"Matt J" said:

> > 2. The group game will be a "gentleman's wager" of no more than $15 that can be lost per round. Side games are permitted.

> What is a "gentleman's wager"?

 

For my group it's the equivalent of a tab even the stingiest player would pick up for a group of friends i.e. not bullying each other with bets but something riding on the game. We don't give strokes, so the game is only equalized with the partnering of players.

[HatsForBats]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > Hello 'Regular Guys',

> >

> > As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

> >

> > If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

> >

> > Peace, Love and understanding,

> > _The Commish_

>

> Ok, I get it. I play in a group that varies from 12-32 guys 4 times per week and we play different formats daily as stipulated by our "commish" to mix things up.

>

> Still, I'm confused as to what the purpose of mandating the stick in accomplishes? How does one go about "proving his theory right, wrong, or indifferent"? Just seems like a silly idea to me, as if the "commish" or someone else is trying to convince others or push a particular agenda. I'm sure I'd still show up and play regardless, but I'd likely point out the arbitrary, futile-inaneness of the entire exercise...lol. :D

 

Finally someone with some decent questions and no name calling?

 

The purpose of a medium size group of players **agreeing** to play a full round with the flagstick in are:

1) to give something new a try to see how things go with the flag always in for a single round, maybe 2 if enough people still show interest.

2) to make sure all players are playing by the same rules for the game that day.

 

Future formats are discussed in the bar after any given days round. If enough players show interest then the Commish will add that format. In the case of the flag in rule and the optional rule for an OB/Lost ball those started being discussed in early November of 2018.

 

One probably does not go about proving anything other than to themselves. In my experience people tend to form opinions and stick to beliefs based on a sample size that is much too small. The idea with the statement is just to get as many players involved as possible. I would argue that the entire exercise in not futile as the players all agreed to try it and people tend to have a good time _in our group_ when occasionally trying something new. The same old game gets a little stale if they play it too often.

 

I am not convinced that the round could not be posted but don't really care either. If people want to argue that one out go ahead and contact the USGA. Could a player in the stipulated round choose to remove the flag mid round? Yes, but then they are giving up the chance at any winnings that day.

[bladehunter]

> @HatsForBats said:

> I would think you would be better off without that type of player in your group. If they are going to have that type of reaction to such a simple question you are better off leaving them behind.

 

What do you do in the situation like my groups. The tee time is 99% mine. Lol. You going to leave the guy who reserved the time behind ?

[bladehunter]

> @hybrid25 said:

> The folks who want the flag pulled for every putt are dinosaurs soon to become extinct. It makes so much sense just to leave the pin in and putt. What I would like to see is for golf courses to make the pin permanently attached so it cannot be removed, and that would settle all the controversy.

 

So you’d have them rewrite the rule again ? As it is there’s a choice.

[bladehunter]

> @HatsForBats said:

> Hello 'Regular Guys',

>

> As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

>

> If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

>

> Peace, Love and understanding,

> _The Commish_

 

That statement is a huge huge leap from the original idea of “ get with us or get out “ statement you’ve made originally. Now it’s an official event announcement ahead of time? Lol. Goodness.

[bladehunter]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > Hello 'Regular Guys',

> >

> > As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

> >

> > If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

> >

> > Peace, Love and understanding,

> > _The Commish_

>

> Ok, I get it. I play in a group that varies from 12-32 guys 4 times per week and we play different formats daily as stipulated by our "commish" to mix things up.

>

> Still, I'm confused as to what the purpose of mandating the stick in accomplishes? How does one go about "proving his theory right, wrong, or indifferent"? Just seems like a silly idea to me, as if the "commish" or someone else is trying to convince others or push a particular agenda. I'm sure I'd still show up and play regardless, but I'd likely point out the arbitrary, futile-inaneness of the entire exercise...lol. :D

 

The purpose is to force others to play pin in ... with hopes that the idea is adopted or indifference sets in . A type of indoctrination.

[HitEmTrue]

> @HatsForBats said:

>Could a player in the stipulated round choose to remove the flag mid round? Yes, but then they are giving up the chance at any winnings that day.

 

What happens when the weather front arrives mid-round, with wind gusts blowing the flag stick to block the hole? Too bad for the guy who has it blowing directly at him?

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

Man, there is a lot of butthurt in this thread.

 

If I had joined your group Hats and you had told me about your “experiment”, I would have said “fine by me” and played that way. The same way if a group had said “we’re pulling the flag every time”, that would be have been ok too.

 

I guess for me, in a casual round like that, just because the rules give me an option to proceed differently, I’m not going to. I’m just going to go along with the group. I’d rather just keep things calm and comfortable as opposed to having the rest of the group constantly have to adjust to my wants. If it’s a tournament setting, or something substantial on the line, I MIGHT act differently (although probably not, because quite frankly, I don’t think it’s an issue worth creating any kind of drama over).

 

Saw, I always respect your thoughts and opinions, but I think you’re making too much of this.

[HatsForBats]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > I would think you would be better off without that type of player in your group. If they are going to have that type of reaction to such a simple question you are better off leaving them behind.

>

> What do you do in the situation like my groups. The tee time is 99% mine. Lol. You going to leave the guy who reserved the time behind ?

 

We don't face that situation as there are no tee times at my home course. If for some reason we decided to try it at an away course I would think we would book in multiples of 4 like we do for almost all of our away events.

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > Hello 'Regular Guys',

> >

> > As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

> >

> > If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

> >

> > Peace, Love and understanding,

> > _The Commish_

>

> That statement is a huge huge leap from the original idea of “ get with us or get out “ statement you’ve made originally. Now it’s an official event announcement ahead of time? Lol. Goodness.

 

What post number(s) are you referring to for the 'original idea'? I don't see any get with us or get out. I do see if they are a foursome and if they don't want to play the chosen game for that day then we/they are better off if they form their own foursome. You disagree with that? Good God, why?

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > Hello 'Regular Guys',

> > >

> > > As many of you know the 2019 rules of golf allow for the flag to be left in at all times. In order to experiment with this possibility the format for the round on xx/yy/2019 will be Mandatory flag in for a full 18 holes. As always everyone is welcome to participate but must follow the rules of the days game in order to be eligible for 'prizes' associated with this days format. If you love it or hate it come on out and prove your theory right, wrong or remain indifferent.

> > >

> > > If you are not open to this format the next events will be xx/yy+2/2019 and then another on xx/yy+3/2019. Those events will be 'normal' rounds. We sincerely hope your delicate feelings are not hurt if **you** **_choose_** not to participate.

> > >

> > > Peace, Love and understanding,

> > > _The Commish_

> >

> > Ok, I get it. I play in a group that varies from 12-32 guys 4 times per week and we play different formats daily as stipulated by our "commish" to mix things up.

> >

> > Still, I'm confused as to what the purpose of mandating the stick in accomplishes? How does one go about "proving his theory right, wrong, or indifferent"? Just seems like a silly idea to me, as if the "commish" or someone else is trying to convince others or push a particular agenda. I'm sure I'd still show up and play regardless, but I'd likely point out the arbitrary, futile-inaneness of the entire exercise...lol. :D

>

> The purpose is to force others to play pin in ... with hopes that the idea is adopted or indifference sets in . A type of indoctrination.

 

If someone agrees to it beforehand they are not being forced to do it are they? As I pointed out they could choose to pull the pin mid-round but then have forfeited their chance at any winnings. The **CHOICE** is theirs. Are players in your 'Regular Guys' allowed to change the rules to their suiting mid round without ramifications? Doubtful. Why are so many of you so horrified by the prospect of a group of "Regular Guys' **agreeing** to test out a brand new way to play the game... for one maybe 2 freaking rounds? It's a bit absurd at this point.> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> >Could a player in the stipulated round choose to remove the flag mid round? Yes, but then they are giving up the chance at any winnings that day.

>

> What happens when the weather front arrives mid-round, with wind gusts blowing the flag stick to block the hole? Too bad for the guy who has it blowing directly at him?

>

>

 

Yeah, great question. Ideally it would be planned on a day that is not too windy or if it was windy enough the event might be postponed (switching to normal play for that round before it began)... but say a flag was just not sitting very well in the hole or a freak wind storm cropped up. When we have had questions crop up during the round it usually gets resolved via text, phone call or 'pass it down the line' as many of holes parallel to each other. If someone doesn't ask the question until after the round or before the stroke is made there is nothing we can do about it.

 

If I was running that particular event my ruling, if I had to make it on the spot, would be if a player feels the flag stick is blocking the hole then they would be allowed to have someone hold the flag straight while they putted **GASP**. If someone asked "well then what do I post to GHIN?" I would respond with "I **really, absolutely** don't care, make up your own mind". Really, I do not care in the least. If one of our players continued to attempt to have someone in the group hold the flag for putts where the flag was not interfering then they would get called out by the rest of the group.

 

Lot's of hypotheticals like this get discussed in the bar after a round. Sometimes someone asks the question before everyone has teed off which is the best case scenario. At the end of the day the very, very large majority of our group doesn't sweat the small stuff. If someone has a question after the round there is usually a lot of discussion. Even if everyone doesn't agree on the resolution there will almost always be a decision made on how to handle the situation going forward. Good group.

[Sawgrass]

> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> >Could a player in the stipulated round choose to remove the flag mid round? Yes, but then they are giving up the chance at any winnings that day.

>

> What happens when the weather front arrives mid-round, with wind gusts blowing the flag stick to block the hole? Too bad for the guy who has it blowing directly at him?

>

>

 

Or when> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> Man, there is a lot of butthurt in this thread.

>

> If I had joined your group Hats and you had told me about your “experiment”, I would have said “fine by me” and played that way. The same way if a group had said “we’re pulling the flag every time”, that would be have been ok too.

>

> I guess for me, in a casual round like that, just because the rules give me an option to proceed differently, I’m not going to. I’m just going to go along with the group. I’d rather just keep things calm and comfortable as opposed to having the rest of the group constantly have to adjust to my wants. If it’s a tournament setting, or something substantial on the line, I MIGHT act differently (although probably not, because quite frankly, I don’t think it’s an issue worth creating any kind of drama over).

>

> Saw, I always respect your thoughts and opinions, but I think you’re making too much of this.

 

Thank you for the complement. And you seem like a very easy-going person, much to your credit.

 

As to my making too much of this, of course I don’t agree with you on that. I merely said that I wouldn’t comply with a stranger asking me to give up the option of pulling the pin. When I play, I like to play by the rules. And while I have no objection to others with whom I’m not competing playing as they choose (my apparently controversial “enjoy your experiment without me” expression), they’re going to have to do that without me. And I most certainly wouldn’t encourage a stranger to violate the rules.