I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[Imp]

> @"A.Princey" said:

> It absolutely speeds up play, and once the reluctant ones come around, it will be no contest. I was a firm believer in having it out, but my first few rounds of the year I played with it in and loved it. In 4 rounds, neither myself nor playing partners missed due to "flag-ricochet". The absolute best advantage is 4-6 footers with decent side break, just aim middle high and hit a laser. This will definitely help the yip-prone folks inside 6 feet, confidence wise if nothing else.

 

I think it's a step in the right direction. I like it a lot. But I think "speed of play" is relative to how it was the past years and this year. Once the pace adjusts to the new format (2-3 years?), there's going to be others claiming "but speed of play must be improved!"

 

One thing I've considered and will work on, once you line up over your ball, doing your routine and practice putts, I'm not going to ask you what you want with the flag as to not disturb your process. If you want it in or out, you need to speak up. Even if I'm near it and no one is putting, I'm not going to ask anything about it. Since it's an individual's decision, they need to make that call without my help in its consideration. You don't say anything, I'm going with the "they're fine with its status."

 

--kC

[Augster]

After more play with the flag in....

 

Speed gain is minimal at best. Especially in a 3 or 4 player group. Especially if you’re keeping up with the group ahead. You are going to play at THEIR pace no matter what.

 

After my first putt, I’m pulling the flag more and more. The flag can only assist on a putt with horrible speed issues. From 10’ and in, I’m not going to hit a ball hard enough that I’d need the stick to “stop it”.

 

I’ve missed, and seen missed, plenty of short putts with the flag in where the shadow is a distraction or the flag is moving and making noise. A much larger percentage than I would have guessed. I’ve gone to flag in for first putts, flag out for second putts. Unless I somehow miracle lag to a tap in, obviously.

 

Lastly, the MAIN thing that leaving the flag in does, is there is a lot less wear around the hole from standing around and attending the flag multiple times. It does save the grass around the hole. Especially on the really soft spring greens.

[Sawgrass]

As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

 

I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

[hybrid25]

Just played my first round of the year and our group left the flag in 90% of the time. I feel it speeds up the game and makes putting more comfortable. The nice part of the rule is you can choose as you please whether to keep it in or take it out. I have noticed the pros on the PGA leaving the flagstick in often.

[Shilgy]

> @Sawgrass said:

> As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

>

> I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

 

I agree with you but (cough cough) backstopping accusations would be even more rampant.

[HitEmTrue]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> >

> > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

>

> I agree with you but (cough cough) backstopping accusations would be even more rampant.

 

If there were a rule as Sawgrass suggested, it could require replaying the putt. But now that's a second crack at making it. Sooo....my vote is the rule stay as it is.

 

 

 

[sui generis]

> @Sawgrass said:

> As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

>

> I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

 

When asked my opinion of the 2019 Rules, my personal observation is that "they" didn't go far enough!

I spent years hounding "them" about the old 15-3, flagstick rule. Flush with victory, I've set my sights on R11.1b, Exception 2. "Backstopping" is a made up distraction arising from La-Z-Boy golf fans.

[Sawgrass]

Just spinning here, but two more thoughts on eliminating the penalty for putting into a ball already on the green:

1) we manage in match play without much concern (though of course, the opponent is there to protect himself).

2) the accompanying competitors in stroke play can make the player wait for a potentially assisting ball to be marked, and it is clearly in their best interests to do so -- just like it is in match play.

 

But I don't think many people are in the market for more rules changes now, so we'll let this sleep.

[Augster]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> >

> > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

>

> When asked my opinion of the 2019 Rules, my personal observation is that "they" didn't go far enough!

> I spent years hounding "them" about the old 15-3, flagstick rule. Flush with victory, I've set my sights on R11.1b, Exception 2. "Backstopping" is a made up distraction arising from La-Z-Boy golf fans.

 

Backstopping cost Mickelson at least $109,000 last season. Not that he needs the money. But it is a significant amount.

 

I agree with Sawgrass. Get rid of the accidental ball touching. Just make it a replay if it happens. The guys on tour would likely abuse this though.

 

 

[sui generis]

> @Augster said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> > >

> > > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

> >

> > When asked my opinion of the 2019 Rules, my personal observation is that "they" didn't go far enough!

> > I spent years hounding "them" about the old 15-3, flagstick rule. Flush with victory, I've set my sights on R11.1b, Exception 2. "Backstopping" is a made up distraction arising from La-Z-Boy golf fans.

>

> Backstopping cost Mickelson at least $109,000 last season. Not that he needs the money. But it is a significant amount.

>

> I agree with Sawgrass. Get rid of the accidental ball touching. Just make it a replay if it happens. The guys on tour would likely abuse this though.

>

>

 

TV golf doesn't interest me much. Let the circus have a Local Rule if it makes them feel special.

[Shilgy]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> >

> > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

>

> When asked my opinion of the 2019 Rules, my personal observation is that "they" didn't go far enough!

> I spent years hounding "them" about the old 15-3, flagstick rule. Flush with victory, I've set my sights on R11.1b, Exception 2. "Backstopping" is a made up distraction arising from La-Z-Boy golf fans.

 

So...especially on the putting green "backstopping"would only be a tour thing? For us LaZBoy fans? Is it just the phrase you do not like? The same issue happens way below the tour level.

[sui generis]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> > >

> > > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

> >

> > When asked my opinion of the 2019 Rules, my personal observation is that "they" didn't go far enough!

> > I spent years hounding "them" about the old 15-3, flagstick rule. Flush with victory, I've set my sights on R11.1b, Exception 2. "Backstopping" is a made up distraction arising from La-Z-Boy golf fans.

>

> So...especially on the putting green "backstopping"would only be a tour thing? For us LaZBoy fans? Is it just the phrase you do not like? The same issue happens way below the tour level.

 

I don't know, Shilgy, I can't see that leaving a ball unmarked on the green would do any real harm. Most would agree that it'd be tough to intentionally use an unmarked ball to one's advantage. We don't care about it in match play, so I think it would do no lasting harm to the stroke play of the great unwashed. I see it as an other opportunity to decriminalize yet another accidental behavior as was done with many things in 2019.

 

If TV golf thinks it's a big, big deal, I suspect the ruling bodies could produce a Model Local Rule for organizations who might wish to adopt it in their Terms of the Competition.

[bladehunter]

> @HatsForBats said:

>

>

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @Lukshannon said:

> > > >

> > > > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > > > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

> > >

> > > If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

> > >

> > > I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

> > >

> >

> > But isn’t that the issue. 3 in the group being unwilling to comprise is worse or same as the 1 who wants it out and is unwilling to compromise. It’s literally the pot calling the kettle black. If there’s an uneven number of in and out preferences it should be taken in and out. Not one side suited one side not. The rule affords a choice. Not a majority rules situation.

>

> I don't see it as an issue or the pot calling the kettle black. Every differing group I have been in this year has been very cooperative with each others preferences. Usually by the third hole the pattern is set and it has gone smoothly even when you have players of both types (prefer it in and prefer it out) plus me (fine either way). When someone starts upsetting the flow of the round with what the very large majority would consider an unreasonable request they are likely going to hear about it. Not just from our group but from the group following and likely in the bar afterwards as well.

 

I’m not certain what scenario you’d find unreasonable?

 

But I suppose that stance is fine so long as you are able to take what I’d dish back ? Would be pretty easy to flip your phone out and let you read the rule that says a player can choose one way or another.

 

I don’t mean that as harsh as it sounds. But it is literally that cut and dried of a topic. You can choose. The reasoning is immaterial.

[Shilgy]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> > > >

> > > > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

> > >

> > > When asked my opinion of the 2019 Rules, my personal observation is that "they" didn't go far enough!

> > > I spent years hounding "them" about the old 15-3, flagstick rule. Flush with victory, I've set my sights on R11.1b, Exception 2. "Backstopping" is a made up distraction arising from La-Z-Boy golf fans.

> >

> > So...especially on the putting green "backstopping"would only be a tour thing? For us LaZBoy fans? Is it just the phrase you do not like? The same issue happens way below the tour level.

>

> I don't know, Shilgy, I can't see that leaving a ball unmarked on the green would do any real harm. Most would agree that it'd be tough to intentionally use an unmarked ball to one's advantage. We don't care about it in match play, so I think it would do no lasting harm to the stroke play of the great unwashed. I see it as an other opportunity to decriminalize yet another accidental behavior as was done with many things in 2019.

>

> If TV golf thinks it's a big, big deal, I suspect the ruling bodies could produce a Model Local Rule for organizations who might wish to adopt it in their Terms of the Competition.

 

I see it as an individual game-not a team game. As such I do not like the idea of you being able to leave you ball near the hole when your buddy has that slick downhill putt and he can perhaps use it to his advantage. And then you can pick it up when Someone you dislike is putting.

[Sawgrass]

 

> I see it as an individual game-not a team game. As such I do not like the idea of you being able to leave you ball near the hole when your buddy has that slick downhill putt and he can perhaps use it to his advantage. And then you can pick it up when Someone you dislike is putting.

 

Yet the players in each case may openly do that to the flagstick for their own benefit.

 

(Had the flagstick rule not changed, I wouldn’t be advocating this.)

[Halebopp]

I'm too tired to remember or look it up but did the requirement for a referee to intervene if s/he sees a possible backstop situation, carry over to the new rules? I can't recall seeing it in the rules or interpretations but it's very possible I've just missed it.

[davep043]

> @Sawgrass said:

> As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

>

> I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

 

> @Sawgrass said:

> Just spinning here, but two more thoughts on eliminating the penalty for putting into a ball already on the green:

> 1) we manage in match play without much concern (though of course, the opponent is there to protect himself).

> 2) the accompanying competitors in stroke play can make the player wait for a potentially assisting ball to be marked, and it is clearly in their best interests to do so -- just like it is in match play.

>

> But I don't think many people are in the market for more rules changes now, so we'll let this sleep.

 

As you say, in a match you can protect yourself. In stroke play, we've heard that on the PGA Tours, players will pick and choose who they will help, they have no interest in protecting the field. Eliminating the penalty for hitting a ball with your own putted ball will only exaggerate that problem.

And in reading the most recent post, a ball which can be marked or left alone based on a **competitor's** whim is different from a flagstick which can be removed or not based on each individual player's whim. The first, someone makes a choice to help you or not, the second, you make your own choices.

[Shilgy]

> @Sawgrass said:

>

> > I see it as an individual game-not a team game. As such I do not like the idea of you being able to leave you ball near the hole when your buddy has that slick downhill putt and he can perhaps use it to his advantage. And then you can pick it up when Someone you dislike is putting.

>

> Yet the players in each case may openly do that to the flagstick for their own benefit.

>

> (Had the flagstick rule not changed, I wouldn’t be advocating this.)

 

Sure they have a choice with the flagstick. They only way removing the penalty for hitting another ball on the green when putting would make sense to me is they all HAVE to be left on the green unless it is in someones line and they want it marked. To me getting "help" by leaving a ball there is akin to getting advice. If that is not allowed why should a player be allowed to get assistance in another form?

[sui generis]

It's just me, I guess, but I see this backstopping thing as a Golf Channel/Brandel Chamblee made up something over which to be outraged. If it is really such an outrage, let's penalize both players.

[Sawgrass]

> @davep043 said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > As I play more and more with the flag-in rule, I enjoy the time saved in not having to wait for one of my companions to tend the flagstick when I'm putting from a distance. But as I grow to enjoy that, at the same time I regret the fact that the Rules still have a penalty (in stroke play only) for hitting a ball that's already on the green. So sometimes I have to wait for a player to mark his ball, even though I really don't think I will hit it, say a ball two feet to the left of a hole when I've got a 15 foot straight putt.

> >

> > I'd think doing away with that penalty (only for _accidentally_ hitting a ball on the green) would help pace without much sacrifice to the integrity of the game.

>

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > Just spinning here, but two more thoughts on eliminating the penalty for putting into a ball already on the green:

> > 1) we manage in match play without much concern (though of course, the opponent is there to protect himself).

> > 2) the accompanying competitors in stroke play can make the player wait for a potentially assisting ball to be marked, and it is clearly in their best interests to do so -- just like it is in match play.

> >

> > But I don't think many people are in the market for more rules changes now, so we'll let this sleep.

>

> As you say, in a match you can protect yourself. In stroke play, we've heard that on the PGA Tours, players will pick and choose who they will help, they have no interest in protecting the field. Eliminating the penalty for hitting a ball with your own putted ball will only exaggerate that problem.

> And in reading the most recent post, a ball which can be marked or left alone based on a **competitor's** whim is different from a flagstick which can be removed or not based on each individual player's whim. The first, someone makes a choice to help you or not, the second, you make your own choices.

 

Sure. But all I’m saying is that if the RBs could make deliberately putting into a flagstick penalty free for pace of play reasons, they could make accidentally (or deliberately) putting into a ball at rest penalty free. It would not be the end of the world.

[Augster]

Not that anyone cares, but I’ve always been against marking the ball. Leave them all on the green and putt them out. Mark only if asked, just like off the green.

 

Faster and simpler. The ruling bodies missed a chance to do this this year. I also advocated continuous putting. Now that we are able to fix spike marks etc., bring it back.

 

I’m cool with backstopping as long as no one gets a choice. All balls out on the green or all balls marked and picked up. No penalty for hitting them but also no choices based on how much “you like” the other opponent.

[Edward_Majorwin]

I absolutely love the new rule!! Broke 80 for the first time ever without pulling the flag all round...so obviously I'm heavily biased.

I also love not having to endure the whole tend-the-stick routine on long putts. Just leave it in and putt gosh darn it!!

[Shilgy]

> @Augster said:

> Not that anyone cares, but I’ve always been against marking the ball. Leave them all on the green and putt them out. Mark only if asked, just like off the green.

>

> Faster and simpler. The ruling bodies missed a chance to do this this year. I also advocated continuous putting. Now that we are able to fix spike marks etc., bring it back.

>

> I’m cool with backstopping as long as no one gets a choice. All balls out on the green or all balls marked and picked up. No penalty for hitting them but also no choices based on how much “you like” the other opponent.

 

You can fix spike marks etc but the depression left by two ton Tony takes a few minutes to spring back up**

 

 

**And yes, at this point I may be making s##t up. :)

[Vindog]

Yeah I found out all I needed to know at "unreasonable request".

[hybrid25]

I don't understand why some make a big deal out of the new rule, golfers can still do what they want to do in that respect.

[dlygrisse]

I love the fact you don’t have to tend the flag for people on long putts. My group pretty much leaves it in on long putts and may pull it around the cup, but generally only if the wind is moving the stick. Gusts over 25mph the other day. Into the wind the flag was leaning toward you.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @Augster said:

> > Not that anyone cares, but I’ve always been against marking the ball. Leave them all on the green and putt them out. Mark only if asked, just like off the green.

> >

> > Faster and simpler. The ruling bodies missed a chance to do this this year. I also advocated continuous putting. Now that we are able to fix spike marks etc., bring it back.

> >

> > I’m cool with backstopping as long as no one gets a choice. All balls out on the green or all balls marked and picked up. No penalty for hitting them but also no choices based on how much “you like” the other opponent.

>

> You can fix spike marks etc but the depression left by two ton Tony takes a few minutes to spring back up**

>

>

> **And yes, at this point I may be making s##t up. :)

 

yep.. thats a terrible idea... Im 6ft3 ish and go 205...with a 13 shoe... i promise you i can affect your putt if i want to on anything but the crispiest greens on earth... if i step in your line and put my weight on that foot , you can see the entire imprint , logo and all in the ground when i pick it up.... and im wearing screw in spikes.. going to take you a few clicks to fix that ... As is i do my best to not step within 18 inches or more from the cup at anytime ( if possible) , The gamesmanship that would go on in competition would be far slower than any imaginary gain that rule could hope for .

[HatsForBats]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> >

> >

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @Lukshannon said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > > > > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

> > > >

> > > > If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

> > > >

> > > > I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

> > > >

> > >

> > > But isn’t that the issue. 3 in the group being unwilling to comprise is worse or same as the 1 who wants it out and is unwilling to compromise. It’s literally the pot calling the kettle black. If there’s an uneven number of in and out preferences it should be taken in and out. Not one side suited one side not. The rule affords a choice. Not a majority rules situation.

> >

> > I don't see it as an issue or the pot calling the kettle black. Every differing group I have been in this year has been very cooperative with each others preferences. Usually by the third hole the pattern is set and it has gone smoothly even when you have players of both types (prefer it in and prefer it out) plus me (fine either way). When someone starts upsetting the flow of the round with what the very large majority would consider an unreasonable request they are likely going to hear about it. Not just from our group but from the group following and likely in the bar afterwards as well.

>

> I’m not certain what scenario you’d find unreasonable?

>

> But I suppose that stance is fine so long as you are able to take what I’d dish back ? Would be pretty easy to flip your phone out and let you read the rule that says a player can choose one way or another.

>

> I don’t mean that as harsh as it sounds. But it is literally that cut and dried of a topic. You can choose. The reasoning is immaterial.

 

I outlined the scenario in my original post... recap:

one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. non-tournament/league rounds, regular group (those that choose to play together often), player all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag.

 

A player certainly could 'dish back' and pull out their phone or even the rule book. However, they would just be wasting more time and increasing the likelihood of getting flak about their decision. The rules certainly afford them their behavior just like they could spend a full 3 minutes looking for their 10th lost ball on the day. We probably sound a little harsh when we ask a player to curb their behavior. It's either that or eventually they don't get invited back.

 

If it was a player that did not have other habits that tended to slow up the pace they might raise an eyebrow but probably wouldn't get much flak other than some (mostly) good natured ribbing.

[HatsForBats]

> @Vindog said:

> Yeah I found out all I needed to know at "unreasonable request".

 

I'm sure you think you did but I am also sure you are thinking of it in a much larger context than the scenario I originally outlined.

 

[Spumoni]

My 4 leaves it in. We already play fast, but it does seem to help us even a little more IMO.