I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[dwboston]

When did the Flag in/out rule last change before the most recent one? TGC is showing Masters highlights from 1963 (Nicklaus's first win) and Ed Furgol had a short tap-in on 18 in the 2nd or 3rd round and made the putt with the flag in. Shows you how fleeting "tradition" is.

 

I played my first rounds of the year a couple of weeks ago while on vacation. It was weird at first but ultimately I just left the flag in for everything. It definitely saved some time, and my playing partner in each round agreed. I think eventually most folks will come around to just leaving it in most of the time.

[KevCarter]

> @dwboston said:

> When did the Flag in/out rule last change before the most recent one? TGC is showing Masters highlights from 1963 (Nicklaus's first win) and Ed Furgol had a short tap-in on 18 in the 2nd or 3rd round and made the putt with the flag in. Shows you how fleeting "tradition" is.

>

> I played my first rounds of the year a couple of weeks ago while on vacation. It was weird at first but ultimately I just left the flag in for everything. It definitely saved some time, and my playing partner in each round agreed. I think eventually most folks will come around to just leaving it in most of the time.

 

The 1956 code eliminated the penalty for a ball hitting an unattended flagstick in the hole when played from the putting green (but by 1968, both rulemaking bodies had agreed to restore the penalty).

[Carl Spackler3]

In my opinion if leaving the pin in is not speeding up play, that is a slow slow group that I’m sure is problematic all over the course. The logistics of leaving it in will absolutely aid pace of play. As to the original poster, if I was finding the rule was resulting in damaged cup lips I would gladly drop the rule. I have not found that to be the case as of yet. Love the rule. Let’s keep it moving out there

[Sawgrass]

> @Imp said:

 

> I've found it much easier if I put my hand in opposite side of the ball/stick and get the ball with my fingers from the opposite side. #bighandpeopleproblems

 

Imp, you have changed my life. I tried your technique today, and it is flawless. I'm a bit embarrassed I didn't think of it myself, but now that you have thought of it for me I am free to ponder other mysteries of life. This one is solved.

[Sawgrass]

> @davep043 said:

> I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

 

 

As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

[deadsolid...shank]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @Imp said:

>

> > I've found it much easier if I put my hand in opposite side of the ball/stick and get the ball with my fingers from the opposite side. #bighandpeopleproblems

>

> Imp, you have changed my life. I tried your technique today, and it is flawless. I'm a bit embarrassed I didn't think of it myself, but now that you have thought of it for me I am free to ponder other mysteries of life. This one is solved.

 

> @Sawgrass said:

 

That’s all well and good, unless you have a set of short stubby fingers that aren’t long enough to effectively accomplish that!!?. But fortunately they’re attached to small stubby hand that fits cleanly in between the flagstick and the cup.?

 

[Brass_Bullseye]

I’ve played 14 rounds this year and haven’t had a problem. My foursome never batted an eye just left it in. If someone wanted to take it out, cool. We’ll all take it out. Easy.

[bladehunter]

 

 

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @Imp said:

>

> > I've found it much easier if I put my hand in opposite side of the ball/stick and get the ball with my fingers from the opposite side. #bighandpeopleproblems

>

> Imp, you have changed my life. I tried your technique today, and it is flawless. I'm a bit embarrassed I didn't think of it myself, but now that you have thought of it for me I am free to ponder other mysteries of life. This one is solved.

 

Have a match tomorrow evening. I plan to try it myself. Hope I agree. Lol.

[LeoLeo99]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

>

>

> As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

 

They should change that rule. Is someone really going to gain an advantage by deciding pin out while the ball is rolling?

[davep043]

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

> >

> >

> > As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

>

> They should change that rule. Is someone really going to gain an advantage by deciding pin out while the ball is rolling?

 

More likely, a player will realize he's hit the putt too hard, and will change his mind to wanting the pin in place. I like the rule as it is, you have to decide before you hit the putt. But as I think (hope) most people realize, I meant John to mean the NEXT player to putt, not the player whose ball is in motion.

[nsxguy]

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

> >

> >

> > As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

>

> They should change that rule. Is someone really going to gain an advantage by deciding pin out while the ball is rolling?

 

As dave mentioned, how about the player wanting the stick put back in because he knows he hit the putt way too hard ?

 

You'd have to treat both scenarios the same, no ?

[LeoLeo99]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

> > >

> > >

> > > As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

> >

> > They should change that rule. Is someone really going to gain an advantage by deciding pin out while the ball is rolling?

>

> As dave mentioned, how about the player wanting the stick put back in because he knows he hit the putt way too hard ?

>

> You'd have to treat both scenarios the same, no ?

 

I thought the premise was that pin in or out didn't affect the score? So no advantage gained either way.

 

I don't like that if you ask pin to be tended and you still hit the pin it's a penalty.

[davep043]

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

> > >

> > > They should change that rule. Is someone really going to gain an advantage by deciding pin out while the ball is rolling?

> >

> > As dave mentioned, how about the player wanting the stick put back in because he knows he hit the putt way too hard ?

> >

> > You'd have to treat both scenarios the same, no ?

>

> I thought the premise was that pin in or out didn't affect the score? So no advantage gained either way.

>

> I don't like that if you ask pin to be tended and you still hit the pin it's a penalty.

 

It might be good to review the new rules of golf.

"Ball Accidentally Hits Flagstick or Person Who Removed or Is Attending It. If the player’s ball in motion accidentally hits the flagstick or the person who removed or is attending it (or anything the person is holding), there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies."

That's in 13.2.b(2)

[LeoLeo99]

> @davep043 said:

> > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @LeoLeo99 said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > I just don'd understand the problems, maybe I just play with smarter or more communicative golfers. Its simple to say, while a putt is still rolling, "John, in or out for you?" and have the flagstick in John's desired location as soon as the ball stops rolling. I just haven't seen the "nightmare" described by others.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > As long as "John" isn't the one who putted the ball that's "still rolling" when John is making his decision, I'm completely with you! B)

> > > >

> > > > They should change that rule. Is someone really going to gain an advantage by deciding pin out while the ball is rolling?

> > >

> > > As dave mentioned, how about the player wanting the stick put back in because he knows he hit the putt way too hard ?

> > >

> > > You'd have to treat both scenarios the same, no ?

> >

> > I thought the premise was that pin in or out didn't affect the score? So no advantage gained either way.

> >

> > I don't like that if you ask pin to be tended and you still hit the pin it's a penalty.

>

> It might be good to review the new rules of golf.

> "Ball Accidentally Hits Flagstick or Person Who Removed or Is Attending It. If the player’s ball in motion accidentally hits the flagstick or the person who removed or is attending it (or anything the person is holding), there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies."

> That's in 13.2.b(2)

Thanks.

[bladehunter]

> @Lukshannon said:

> Leaving the flag in has lowered my score by 2-3 shots a round. It’s mostly mental. When the flag is in I have much more confidence and it helps me read the line of the putt better. But that’s just me.

> It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

 

I know the feeling. The opposite is also true.

[davep043]

> @Lukshannon said:

 

> **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

 

[deadsolid...shank]

We played yesterday and flag was in all day. I had one instance where I should have taken it out. I was over the ball and noticed the shadow was over the ball and the wind was making the shadow move. But we weren’t playing for anything so I just went ahead and putted. It was distracting though. Come to think of, because of that we did pull the flag two holes later. Three of us were the same very small area with the same situation so we did take it out.

The guys I played with are thinking it saves 10 minutes or so. I’m still not sure it’s anywhere near that much, but that’s because I just don’t see where it takes any time to deal with it. But it’s very possible it is more time than I’m noticing and it is adding up. Really not sure.

[rogolf]

It doesn't save any time if the group in front is slow!

[Halebopp]

> @rogolf said:

> It doesn't save any time if the group in front is slow!

I do hope it saves 10 minutes a round from every group in front of us! :)

[HatsForBats]

> @davep043 said:

> > @Lukshannon said:

>

> > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

>

 

I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

 

If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

 

I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

 

[rogolf]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @Lukshannon said:

> >

> > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> >

>

> I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

>

> If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

>

> I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

>

 

I'll have it the way that I want it regardless of what others in the group have done or will do. On long putts (> 20 feet or so), it's not an issue for me. But on shorter putts (<10 feet), I've found that by leaving it in, I focus more on the flagstick than my chosen line, so I want it out. It's been very cooperative in our groups so far, and I don't expect it will change. I'ts a matter of courtesy and respect for each other.

[bladehunter]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @Lukshannon said:

> >

> > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> >

>

> I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

>

> If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

>

> I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

>

 

But isn’t that the issue. 3 in the group being unwilling to comprise is worse or same as the 1 who wants it out and is unwilling to compromise. It’s literally the pot calling the kettle black. If there’s an uneven number of in and out preferences it should be taken in and out. Not one side suited one side not. The rule affords a choice. Not a majority rules situation.

[Vindog]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @Lukshannon said:

> >

> > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> >

>

> I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

>

> If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

>

> I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

>

 

Okay, so lets say you refuse to help an FC with the flag. Then he/she walks over deals with it themselves, then everyone is tired and complaining that it's taking too long, when it would just be faster to pull the stupid flag for them. It doesn't make sense to take that stand, imo.

 

 

[xxio]

Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

[DrSchteeve]

Played a WRXer 4some today. Nobody said a word, flag stayed in all day. It was awesome.

[nsxguy]

> @xxio said:

> Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

 

Yep. A bit more time savings,,,,,,,,

[HitEmTrue]

> @xxio said:

> Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

 

If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

[Newby]

> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @xxio said:

> > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

>

> If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

 

Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

[Roadking2003]

> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @xxio said:

> > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

>

> If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

 

Many times you can't tell who is standing near the hole. Most of us shoot it again after they replace the flag.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Newby said:

> > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > @xxio said:

> > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> >

> > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

>

> Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

 

It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.