I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[nsxguy]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Newby said:

> > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > @xxio said:

> > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > >

> > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> >

> > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

>

> It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Problem is you can't always tell who's standing "near the hole", especially if they're in line with the hole.

 

How many times do you hit a fairly long shot and even through the rangefinder it looks to be about 3 feet only to find when you get up there it's 20 feet short ? Happened several times yesterday in a scramble I play on Saturdays.

[Roadking2003]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Newby said:

> > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > @xxio said:

> > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > >

> > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> >

> > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

>

> It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

 

I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

[TerpFangolfer]

I played my 1st competitive round of the season yesterday. We really had no issues with this. I think only 2 times was the flag out, and someone wanted it back in. I guess fortunate that we didn't have anyone of the mindset of wanting it in for basically every putt.

Was much less of a distraction than I thought, and I liked having it in on long putts, without someone having to hold it...

[rogolf]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @Newby said:

> > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > >

> > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > >

> > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> >

> > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

>

> I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

 

Wow, such precision - surprised you're not at the Valero Texas Open this week.

[DrSchteeve]

> @jmtbkr said:

> Stupid rule!

> I personally pull each time I putt. I understand why some like it.

> Doesn't seem to speed the game along at all. Mostly, it ruins the carefully sculpted hole from people who try to pull the ball out without decent finger dexterity. We have alot of senior members at my club and many have problems retrieving the ball, use ball grabbers on the end of their putters and severely dent the cup edges.

> Who came up with this idea? they should be hung by their shorthairs!

Among the more hilarious reasons for rules problems. "My fingers are fat! I can't reach the ball with the flag in the hole!". Hmmmmmm....... maybe you should pull the flag out when you go to retrieve the ball?!?

[sui generis]

> @jmtbkr said:

> Stupid rule!

> I personally pull each time I putt. I understand why some like it.

> Doesn't seem to speed the game along at all. Mostly, it ruins the carefully sculpted hole from people who try to pull the ball out without decent finger dexterity. We have alot of senior members at my club and many have problems retrieving the ball, use ball grabbers on the end of their putters and severely dent the cup edges.

> Who came up with this idea? they should be hung by their shorthairs!

 

Reffed a D1 men's invitational this weekend with sixteen teams plus some individuals. Every player and coach I asked about R13.2 reported no problems and all liked the 2019 option. I witnessed no arguments and received no reports of players unable retrieve the ball from the hole. There were other adventures, of course, but none related to the flagstick.

 

[nsxguy]

> @rogolf said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > > >

> > > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > > >

> > > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> > >

> > > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

> >

> > I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

>

> Wow, such precision - surprised you're not at the Valero Texas Open this week.

 

Seriously ? C'mon dude, you can't see a 4 yard difference resulting in your changing to a soft 8 vs. a hard 9 ?

[Roadking2003]

> @rogolf said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > > >

> > > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > > >

> > > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> > >

> > > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

> >

> > I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

>

> Wow, such precision - surprised you're not at the Valero Texas Open this week.

 

So you would pull the same club at 128 yds as 132 yds even though that club can only 130 when flushed? Strange.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @Newby said:

> > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > >

> > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > >

> > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> >

> > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

>

> Maybe, maybe not. Problem is you can't always tell who's standing "near the hole", especially if they're in line with the hole.

>

> How many times do you hit a fairly long shot and even through the rangefinder it looks to be about 3 feet only to find when you get up there it's 20 feet short ? Happened several times yesterday in a scramble I play on Saturdays.

 

Actually I usually cheat and lase the person as they retrieve the ball from the hole. Or I will lase everyone and take a quick average. Rarely need to change clubs once I get the pin, but it can happen.

 

[rogolf]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> > > >

> > > > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

> > >

> > > I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

> >

> > Wow, such precision - surprised you're not at the Valero Texas Open this week.

>

> So you would pull the same club at 128 yds as 132 yds even though that club can only 130 when flushed? Strange.

 

To me, anything from 125 to 135 is probably the 130 club, but there are a lot of other factors to consider than just distance - what's the wind doing, what's the temperature, how firm or soft are the greens, is there an elevation change, what's the lie of the ball? How well will I hit whatever club I choose?

[nsxguy]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > > >

> > > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > > >

> > > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> > >

> > > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

> >

> > Maybe, maybe not. Problem is you can't always tell who's standing "near the hole", especially if they're in line with the hole.

> >

> > How many times do you hit a fairly long shot and even through the rangefinder it looks to be about 3 feet only to find when you get up there it's 20 feet short ? Happened several times yesterday in a scramble I play on Saturdays.

>

> Actually I usually cheat and lase the person as they retrieve the ball from the hole. Or I will lase everyone and take a quick average. Rarely need to change clubs once I get the pin, but it can happen.

>

 

Yup. If you can taser,,,,,,,, errrrrrr,,,,,,,,,, laser 'em pulling the ball out of the hole, that works as well.

 

Little time saved here and a little time saved there,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[bladehunter]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @Lukshannon said:

> > >

> > > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> > >

> >

> > I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

> >

> > If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

> >

> > I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

> >

>

> But isn’t that the issue. 3 in the group being unwilling to comprise is worse or same as the 1 who wants it out and is unwilling to compromise. It’s literally the pot calling the kettle black. If there’s an uneven number of

> @rogolf said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > > >

> > > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > > >

> > > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> > >

> > > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

> >

> > I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

>

> Wow, such precision - surprised you're not at the Valero Texas Open this week.

 

Lol. Yep. That’s hilarious. As if you can judge roll that precisely from 114.

[A.Princey]

It absolutely speeds up play, and once the reluctant ones come around, it will be no contest. I was a firm believer in having it out, but my first few rounds of the year I played with it in and loved it. In 4 rounds, neither myself nor playing partners missed due to "flag-ricochet". The absolute best advantage is 4-6 footers with decent side break, just aim middle high and hit a laser. This will definitely help the yip-prone folks inside 6 feet, confidence wise if nothing else.

[bladehunter]

Disagree. It’s 100 % out for me inside 12 feet. I hate the visual of it for short putts. And I’ll add. I had the pin spit the ball out on a 12 foot putt from the fringe Saturday. Was uphill and ball wasn’t moving very fast. Wind blowing. Poof. Ball goes down and comes back out. Blank that.

[avguy]

The current Golf Digest has as feature on putting effectiveness of flag in/out. It supports flag out on all but the longest put. This was 'counter' to the MGS article some time ago. Personally, I play many solo rounds in brutal (not to me!) heat, & I just leave it in for speed and ease.

 

I could see the slow factor for foursomes, but with just two golfers, it has barely any effect on speed on a green. Too many ams have either no attempts to align their put or take far too long.....the extremes are what slow down the game from that end and make it painful to play.

[A.Princey]

I was referring to severely breaking putts of 4-6', this is the advantage of the flag being able to plan for minimal break at a good speed, knocking it in against the high side of the flag.

[deadsolid...shank]

Thursday I had a putt that a playing partner said would have gone without the flag. Kind of a side door that looked to me like just an old fashioned lip out. He said as it dipped over the edge of the cup it caught a piece of the stick.

I don’t know, it sure didn’t look to me like it hit the flag stick. I still think it’s going to help me way more often than it will hurt, and I like the visual. I think it helps me aim.

 

But I’ll just continue to go along with whatever the rest of the group is doing.

[dpb5031]

> @"A.Princey" said:

> I was referring to severely breaking putts of 4-6', this is the advantage of the flag being able to plan for minimal break at a good speed, knocking it in against the high side of the flag.

 

Wouldn't that be provided you're precise enough to strike the pin dead center?

This video experiment supports what I've seen on the course:

[davep043]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> Thursday I had a putt that a playing partner said would have gone without the flag. Kind of a side door that looked to me like just an old fashioned lip out. He said as it dipped over the edge of the cup it caught a piece of the stick.

> I don’t know, it sure didn’t look to me like it hit the flag stick. I still think it’s going to help me way more often than it will hurt, and I like the visual. I think it helps me aim.

>

> But I’ll just continue to go along with whatever the rest of the group is doing.

 

In a dozen or maybe 15 rounds this year, I've seen maybe 2 or 3 putts that the flagstick might have kept out of the hole. i know its impossible to be certain, but that was my impression at the time. I've seen more that have hit the stick going pretty fast, and have either stayed in or stayed close. My personal plan of action, I'll have it in outside 20 feet, have it pulled inside 12 or 15 feet. So far, we haven't seen any issues with delays caused by differing choices, we just make sure to tell the person closest to the hole what we want, or if I'm closest, to ask the next putter what his preference is. Not once have we felt it necessary to agree on a single course of action on the first tee.

[deadsolid...shank]

> @davep043 said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > Thursday I had a putt that a playing partner said would have gone without the flag. Kind of a side door that looked to me like just an old fashioned lip out. He said as it dipped over the edge of the cup it caught a piece of the stick.

> > I don’t know, it sure didn’t look to me like it hit the flag stick. I still think it’s going to help me way more often than it will hurt, and I like the visual. I think it helps me aim.

> >

> > But I’ll just continue to go along with whatever the rest of the group is doing.

>

> In a dozen or maybe 15 rounds this year, I've seen maybe 2 or 3 putts that the flagstick might have kept out of the hole. i know its impossible to be certain, but that was my impression at the time. I've seen more that have hit the stick going pretty fast, and have either stayed in or stayed close. My personal plan of action, I'll have it in outside 20 feet, have it pulled inside 12 or 15 feet. So far, we haven't seen any issues with delays caused by differing choices, we just make sure to tell the person closest to the hole what we want, or if I'm closest, to ask the next putter what his preference is. Not once have we felt it necessary to agree on a single course of action on the first tee.

 

I probably could have phrased it better. When I said what the group is doing it is more of a hole by hole situation as opposed to a group discussion on the first tee.

 

Basically, when I get up to putt, if it’s in, I’ll leave it in. If it’s already out, I seriously doubt I’ll ask to have it put back in

 

 

[davep043]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > Thursday I had a putt that a playing partner said would have gone without the flag. Kind of a side door that looked to me like just an old fashioned lip out. He said as it dipped over the edge of the cup it caught a piece of the stick.

> > > I don’t know, it sure didn’t look to me like it hit the flag stick. I still think it’s going to help me way more often than it will hurt, and I like the visual. I think it helps me aim.

> > >

> > > But I’ll just continue to go along with whatever the rest of the group is doing.

> >

> > In a dozen or maybe 15 rounds this year, I've seen maybe 2 or 3 putts that the flagstick might have kept out of the hole. i know its impossible to be certain, but that was my impression at the time. I've seen more that have hit the stick going pretty fast, and have either stayed in or stayed close. My personal plan of action, I'll have it in outside 20 feet, have it pulled inside 12 or 15 feet. So far, we haven't seen any issues with delays caused by differing choices, we just make sure to tell the person closest to the hole what we want, or if I'm closest, to ask the next putter what his preference is. Not once have we felt it necessary to agree on a single course of action on the first tee.

>

> I probably could have phrased it better. When I said what the group is doing it is more of a hole by hole situation as opposed to a group discussion on the first tee.

>

> Basically, when I get up to putt, if it’s in, I’ll leave it in. If it’s already out, I seriously doubt I’ll ask to have it put back in

>

>

 

I'm generally with you, I don't have a hard and fast decision, often I'll roll with whatever the previous player has decided to do. But if I'm in a position where I have a strong preference, I won't have a problem asking for the pin to be moved to suit my preference.

[Roadking2003]

> @bladehunter said:

> And I’ll add. I had the pin spit the ball out on a 12 foot putt from the fringe Saturday. Was uphill and ball wasn’t moving very fast. Wind blowing. Poof. Ball goes down and comes back out. Blank that.

 

Yes, all of the studies have shown that sometimes leaving the flag in will make a putt miss that otherwise would have gone in.

And the opposite is also true, so you just have to decide what's best for you.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @dpb5031 said:

> Wouldn't that be provided you're precise enough to strike the pin dead center?

> This video experiment supports what I've seen on the course:

Interesting test. But they used a single speed for all tests. I wonder what would happen with faster and slower speeds.

[8602081]

Played last Saturday..

3 out of 4 people wanted the flag in.. one guy preferred to have flag out.. So every hole, we had to remove the flag out for one person. That was annoying.. I think the rule works, when the group is in an agreement..

 

[Vindog]

 

 

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > > > > > @xxio said:

> > > > > > > Found an extra advantage today. I could shoot the pin with my range finder even when the group ahead was putting. Happened on a couple of par 3s that tend to be difficult to decide club selection.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If pin is out point range finder at one of the guys standing near the hole.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some gwrxers will say that isn't precise enough for them

> > > >

> > > > It is precise enough to pull a club. It might not be good enough to determine exactly how you are going to hit it. Still saves time regardless, but a little less than shooting the pin direct.

> > >

> > > I don't agree. Say you shoot a player on the green and it's 128 yards, so you pull your PW which is a maximum of 130 yards when well struck. Then you shoot it after the flag is in and it's now 132 yards. That's a different club.

> >

> > Wow, such precision - surprised you're not at the Valero Texas Open this week.

>

> So you would pull the same club at 128 yds as 132 yds even though that club can only 130 when flushed? Strange.

 

In that situation the full club wins. But I guess it also depends on if it's better to be short than long.

[dpb5031]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > Wouldn't that be provided you're precise enough to strike the pin dead center?

> > This video experiment supports what I've seen on the course:

> Interesting test. But they used a single speed for all tests. I wonder what would happen with faster and slower speeds.

 

I figured this would come up.

The slower speed question is easy. The hole gets effectively larger the slower a putt is rolling as it approaches the hole, and there's more room in the hole when the flagstick is OUT.

 

As for faster moving putts, consider that in the video I posted, they were rolling the ball quite fast ...claiming 5-7' past the hole. That's certainly much faster than ideal, which I'm pretty sure most would agree would be somewhere between 1'-2' (+ or-).

 

The only scenario I can imagine where the flagstick will truly be of some tangible assistance is for a ball rolling 5-7' past the hole or MORE, that hits the stick practically dead center, thus leaving your next putt closer than it otherwise would have been had it not struck the stick. Then again, that would be really horrible speed by just about anyone's standard.

 

It is extremely rare for me to hit a putt that travels more than 3 or 4' past the hole during a given round, so for me the stick is ALWAYS going to be OUT save for an extremely long putt where I'd otherwise have the stick attended, and even then it's just for convenience, not because of some perceived advantage of hoping to strike the stick.

 

[Imp]

Played at a new club on Saturday. Below the hole, the general consensus was pull the flag. Above the hole or far away putts, leave it in. I don't think one player said remove it if it was a downhill putt.

 

--kC

[HitEmTrue]

> @Imp said:

> Played at a new club on Saturday. Below the hole, the general consensus was pull the flag. Above the hole or far away putts, leave it in. I don't think one player said remove it if it was a downhill putt.

>

> --kC

 

Interesting...I'd be the other way around on that. Uphill putts are travelling faster, and downhill putts are travelling slower.

 

[HatsForBats]

 

 

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @Lukshannon said:

> > >

> > > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> > >

> >

> > I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

> >

> > If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

> >

> > I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

> >

>

> But isn’t that the issue. 3 in the group being unwilling to comprise is worse or same as the 1 who wants it out and is unwilling to compromise. It’s literally the pot calling the kettle black. If there’s an uneven number of in and out preferences it should be taken in and out. Not one side suited one side not. The rule affords a choice. Not a majority rules situation.

 

I don't see it as an issue or the pot calling the kettle black. Every differing group I have been in this year has been very cooperative with each others preferences. Usually by the third hole the pattern is set and it has gone smoothly even when you have players of both types (prefer it in and prefer it out) plus me (fine either way). When someone starts upsetting the flow of the round with what the very large majority would consider an unreasonable request they are likely going to hear about it. Not just from our group but from the group following and likely in the bar afterwards as well.

[HatsForBats]

> @Vindog said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @Lukshannon said:

> > >

> > > > **It is very annoying playing with people who ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE IT OUT. **If my whole group wants it out, I’ll keep it out. If they want it in, even better. But if we are playing a tournament I will put it back in to putt.

> > > Like @bladehunter says, the opposite can be true as well. If you're going to get annoyed when people make choices different from yours, you'll spend a lot of your life being annoyed. Its really just not a huge deal if everyone communicates with one another. We'll all have to adapt just a little. Even this old dog can learn that new trick.

> > >

> >

> > I don't think that is a case of being annoyed with someone making a different choice but rather being annoyed that they are completely uncompromising. We have one player that likes to request some balls are marked on the green when they are nowhere near to interfering with their shot. It's annoying and he has been told flat out no, in non-tournament/league rounds, a few times. It is annoying if someone is so extreme. If it's a tournament, league or some other competition with higher stakes then it is what it is.

> >

> > If a player in our regular group is insisting the flag is removed when they are all the way across the green, with an uphill putt, and nobody is near the flag it is going to be annoying to the rest of us. That player might just get told flat out no. I like my group. Luckily we haven't run across that behavior.... yet.

> >

> > I'm willing to go with whatever the rest of the group wants even when they don't all agree. When it is my turn it is staying how the last player played it unless there are extenuating circumstances (fast down-hiller, flag leaning or distracting etc.).

> >

>

> Okay, so lets say you refuse to help an FC with the flag. Then he/she walks over deals with it themselves, then everyone is tired and complaining that it's taking too long, when it would just be faster to pull the stupid flag for them. It doesn't make sense to take that stand, imo.

>

>

 

Oh, I think it makes perfect sense to make that stand. If you enable the behavior it will continue and it will likely lead to other unreasonable requests. If it was in a group outside the regular group I could agree with your statement.

 

What would be faster is if they just hit the shot and got on with our round. If they did make the walk to deal with it themselves they would then have to deal with the complaints from the group they were in, the group that was following and then in the larger group after the round. If it was a putt late in the round and the player was in the running the request might be honored with some eye rolling. Otherwise hit the damn shot and get on with it.