I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[bladehunter]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> >

> > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> >

> > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> >

>

> Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

>

> Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

>

>

>

>

>

>

So I can decide to agree with your group before the round , then change my mind before my first putt ?

Ok. We agree then! Pull the pin please !

[nsxguy]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > >

> > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > >

> > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Sheesh. You want to just play with words so it comes out the way you want it to.

> >

> > Why not just write the generic question and send it in to the USGA and see what they say already ?

> >

> > You said the Commish, in the conditions of the competition, overrode a rule of golf by saying the pin must stay in (or was it much come out ?). Ask the USGA if he, or anyone else on the committee, can issue such a condition of competition.

>

> **I see no sense in wasting the time of the USGA** by asking a question about something that might happen twice in my lifetime. I don't consider the discussion a waste of our time. Maybe you do.

 

LMAO

 

Good one !!!

[Sawgrass]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> >

> > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> >

> > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> >

>

> Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

>

> Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

Relentlessly in error.

[HatsForBats]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > >

> > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > >

> > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > >

> >

> > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> >

> > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Relentlessly in error.

 

What happens if there is only one player that publicly decides they are leaving the flag in before they start? Are they DQ'ed?

 

[QEight]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > >

> > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > >

> > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Relentlessly in error.

>

> What happens if there is only one player that publicly decides they are leaving the flag in before they start? Are they DQ'ed?

>

This one decides on behalf of the others? How would he enforce this?

[HitEmTrue]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > >

> > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > >

> > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Relentlessly in error.

>

> What happens if there is only one player that publicly decides they are leaving the flag in before they start? Are they DQ'ed?

>

 

Dq’d for what? He didn’t make an agreement with anyone. I could similarly announce that I plan on taking stroke and distance for every ball that goes into a water hazard...er...penalty area. But I can still make a different decision when I actually hit one into the water.

[hybrid25]

I seriously think most golfers don't concern themselves with this issue, too much, of leaving the flag in or taking it out. I just finished a tournament today where everybody got along just fine with the flagstick in or out. Generally for longer putts we left it in, and anything inside 15 feet or so we took it out. Most golfers put accepting and pleasing other's wishes in reference to the flagstick to the Forefront and we're very flexible about it. I guess in golf forms people need something to talk about and make the subject bigger than life itself. It really isn't that big of a deal, in fact I think it's a good rule because it gives people the option to do as they wish, and they don't tell you what you have to do with the flagstick.

[Augster]

> @hybrid25 said:

> I seriously think most golfers don't concern themselves with this issue, too much, of leaving the flag in or taking it out. I just finished a tournament today where everybody got along just fine with the flagstick in or out. Generally for longer putts we left it in, and anything inside 15 feet or so we took it out. Most golfers put accepting and pleasing other's wishes in reference to the flagstick to the Forefront and we're very flexible about it. I guess in golf forms people need something to talk about and make the subject bigger than life itself. It really isn't that big of a deal, in fact I think it's a good rule because it gives people the option to do as they wish, and they don't tell you what you have to do with the flagstick.

 

This is pretty much my experience also. After reading the above article, and seeing yet ANOTHER ball glance the stick almost dead center and miss, your post is pretty much how we play it now.

 

While I do agree that playing alone on an open course and leaving the stick in full time will speed up a round, when the course is stacked and you aren’t going anywhere, there is no time savings. Not attending the flag for long putts does save wear around the hole.

 

And, as you pointed out, if one guy wants it back in after it’s been taken out, it takes no time at all because we are all around the hole and likely someone has already finished and is holding it anyway.

 

Like you said, something to talk about on a golf forum. Out on the course, it’s not an issue at all.

 

 

[SWGolfer55]

I don’t mind the rule. I don’t always like going to take the pin out, especially if I have a long putt where the hole is tough to see. I feel it helps me. I’m able to play 18 walking in 2 hours or less. Taking the pin out every time doesn’t save a lot of time but it does speed things up a bit. It also speeds things up for the people behind you.

[Imp]

> @Augster said:

> when the course is stacked and you aren’t going anywhere, there is no time savings.

Surprised to see that come out of your fingers, Auguster.

 

Stacked or not stacked, it's not your job to determine how long you get to spend on a green while there are others waiting to hit up. One should be expedient, because you are contributing to the delay of everyone behind you. Play. Get off. Let others play up. Please spend that "not going anywhere, no time savings" in between the green and tee, not on the hole.

 

--kC

[HatsForBats]

> @QEight said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > >

> > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Relentlessly in error.

> >

> > What happens if there is only one player that publicly decides they are leaving the flag in before they start? Are they DQ'ed?

> >

> This one decides on behalf of the others? How would he enforce this?

 

No, just deciding for themselves only. I was wondering if Sawgrass considered that player in breach according to his interpretation of the rule.

 

 

[HatsForBats]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > >

> > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > >

> > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > >

> >

> > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> >

> > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Relentlessly in error.

 

The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

[nsxguy]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > >

> > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > >

> > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Relentlessly in error.

>

> The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

 

What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

[HatsForBats]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > >

> > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Relentlessly in error.

> >

> > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

>

> What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

 

I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

[davep043]

> @Imp said:

> > @Augster said:

> > when the course is stacked and you aren’t going anywhere, there is no time savings.

> Surprised to see that come out of your fingers, Auguster.

>

> Stacked or not stacked, it's not your job to determine how long you get to spend on a green while there are others waiting to hit up. One should be expedient, because you are contributing to the delay of everyone behind you. Play. Get off. Let others play up. Please spend that "not going anywhere, no time savings" in between the green and tee, not on the hole.

>

> --kC

 

I'm a proponent of prompt play, as are most of us, but @Augster is completely correct. If the course in front of me is full, and I save a minute or two on each green, it doesn't help reduce the time for my group or any group behind us. That doesn't mean I won't still play promptly, and get off the green efficiently, just that I recognize that there's no overall time savings resulting from that. If the new rule means that everyone will play a little faster, great, but I'm not counting on that to happen.

[bladehunter]

> @davep043 said:

> > @Imp said:

> > > @Augster said:

> > > when the course is stacked and you aren’t going anywhere, there is no time savings.

> > Surprised to see that come out of your fingers, Auguster.

> >

> > Stacked or not stacked, it's not your job to determine how long you get to spend on a green while there are others waiting to hit up. One should be expedient, because you are contributing to the delay of everyone behind you. Play. Get off. Let others play up. Please spend that "not going anywhere, no time savings" in between the green and tee, not on the hole.

> >

> > --kC

>

> I'm a proponent of prompt play, as are most of us, but @Augster is completely correct. If the course in front of me is full, and I save a minute or two on each green, it doesn't help reduce the time for my group or any group behind us. That doesn't mean I won't still play promptly, and get off the green efficiently, just that I recognize that there's no overall time savings resulting from that. If the new rule means that everyone will play a little faster, great, but I'm not counting on that to happen.

 

And I’ll add to that. I’m not going to hurry or not putt out because someone is waiting in the fairway. If there’s a backup ahead I’m not going to hurry so that the group behind me doesn’t have to wait and our group spends all of our tome between holes waiting. As they say poop flows downhill. If it’s packed we all wait.

[bladehunter]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > >

> > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > >

> > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Relentlessly in error.

>

> The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

 

How was that worded ?

Did you let them know that the person couldn’t change their mind without fear of banishment ?

[Sawgrass]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > >

> > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > >

> > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Relentlessly in error.

>

> The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

I hope you'll forgive me for remaining skeptical, at least about the wording. I'll write to them myself so we all can be clear.

 

[nsxguy]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Relentlessly in error.

> > >

> > > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> >

> > What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

>

> I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

 

But your original post on this was about was your COMMITTEE MANDATING the flag in (or was it out ?) for all players.

 

THAT was the point of contention.

[HatsForBats]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Relentlessly in error.

> > > >

> > > > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> > >

> > > What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

> >

> > I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

>

> But your original post on this was about was your COMMITTEE MANDATING the flag in (or was it out ?) for all players.

>

> THAT was the point of contention.

 

That certainly was the way certain posters tried to steer it. As I recall it the **invite** was for people that wanted to try it out. If someone was against it they could choose not to play that event **or** could play the event and take the flag out without penalty strokes...… but not qualify for winnings. The last I checked the USGA was not in the habit of offering any advice on payouts. They did mention it would be a violation if someone was charged penalty strokes which if you read my posts you would find they would not be.

[HatsForBats]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > >

> > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Relentlessly in error.

> >

> > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> I hope you'll forgive me for remaining skeptical, at least about the wording. I'll write to them myself so we all can be clear.

>

 

I certainly wouldn't expect anything **more** from you.

[HatsForBats]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > >

> > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > >

> > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Relentlessly in error.

> >

> > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

>

> How was that worded ?

> Did you let them know that the person couldn’t change their mind without fear of banishment ?

 

The person wouldn't be banished and they would not be charged penalty strokes. Our players would be smart enough not to get in on the 'action' if that was the game chosen for the day and they did not want to participate. Would your players choose differently? Seriously?

[Hawkeye77]

By far, preference is out among those I play with, but not 100% and if someone wants it in, no problem. And it's early and the greens are still not healed from last fall's aeration. I've come full circle though, used to leave it in while playing alone, now taking it out on pretty much anything inside about 25 feet or so even when alone. Taking my time and making some putts instead of rushing about.

[dubbelbogey]

Anecdotal data: in the 10 rounds I've played so this year, I can count on one hand the number _holes_ (not rounds) where somebody requested the flag out for their putts. These were all foursomes of randomly assigned playing partners as I typically walk on as a single and get paired with whoever is out there (so this is roughly a sample size of 39 other playing partners).

 

So, the trend I'm seeing is folks are generally leaving the flag in.

[nsxguy]

> @HatsForBats said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Relentlessly in error.

> > > > >

> > > > > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> > > >

> > > > What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

> > >

> > > I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

> >

> > But your original post on this was about was your COMMITTEE MANDATING the flag in (or was it out ?) for all players.

> >

> > THAT was the point of contention.

>

> That certainly was the way certain posters tried to steer it. As I recall it the **invite** was for people that wanted to try it out. If someone was against it they could choose not to play that event **or** could play the event and take the flag out without penalty strokes...… but not qualify for winnings. The last I checked the USGA was not in the habit of offering any advice on payouts. They did mention it would be a violation if someone was charged penalty strokes which if you read my posts you would find they would not be.

 

Here is what *I* sent the USGA.

 

_**"Can the Committee running an event under the Rules of Golf MANDATE that the flagstick stays IN (OR the flagstick always is taken out) for all putts by all players as part of the Conditions of Competition ?"**_

 

Reply - No.

 

 

[Sawgrass]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Relentlessly in error.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> > > > >

> > > > > What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

> > > >

> > > > I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

> > >

> > > But your original post on this was about was your COMMITTEE MANDATING the flag in (or was it out ?) for all players.

> > >

> > > THAT was the point of contention.

> >

> > That certainly was the way certain posters tried to steer it. As I recall it the **invite** was for people that wanted to try it out. If someone was against it they could choose not to play that event **or** could play the event and take the flag out without penalty strokes...… but not qualify for winnings. The last I checked the USGA was not in the habit of offering any advice on payouts. They did mention it would be a violation if someone was charged penalty strokes which if you read my posts you would find they would not be.

>

> Here is what *I* sent the USGA.

>

> _**"Can the Committee running an event under the Rules of Golf MANDATE that the flagstick stays IN (OR the flagstick always is taken out) for all putts by all players as part of the Conditions of Competition ?"**_

>

> Reply - No.

>

>

There you go!

 

 

 

[sui generis]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Relentlessly in error.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> > > > >

> > > > > What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

> > > >

> > > > I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

> > >

> > > But your original post on this was about was your COMMITTEE MANDATING the flag in (or was it out ?) for all players.

> > >

> > > THAT was the point of contention.

> >

> > That certainly was the way certain posters tried to steer it. As I recall it the **invite** was for people that wanted to try it out. If someone was against it they could choose not to play that event **or** could play the event and take the flag out without penalty strokes...… but not qualify for winnings. The last I checked the USGA was not in the habit of offering any advice on payouts. They did mention it would be a violation if someone was charged penalty strokes which if you read my posts you would find they would not be.

>

> Here is what *I* sent the USGA.

>

> _**"Can the Committee running an event under the Rules of Golf MANDATE that the flagstick stays IN (OR the flagstick always is taken out) for all putts by all players as part of the Conditions of Competition ?"**_

>

> Reply - No.

>

>

 

I hope that you've quoted their reply exactly!

[Augster]

Back to the original post in this thread....

 

Saw another ball glance the stick and stay out today that would have holed. As these misses add up, my friends are more and more putting with the flag out. It was a good idea to allow it. But I’ve seen 3 in the past 3 rounds. All for birdie. All costing the player skin money.

 

It’s an epidemic.

[dpb5031]

> @Augster said:

> Back to the original post in this thread....

>

> Saw another ball glance the stick and stay out today that would have holed. As these misses add up, my friends are more and more putting with the flag out. It was a good idea to allow it. But I’ve seen 3 in the past 3 rounds. All for birdie. All costing the player skin money.

>

> It’s an epidemic.

 

I'm seeing the same thing. Guys who initially were adamant about flag stick "in" are converting back.

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @HatsForBats said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > @HatsForBats said:

> > > > > > > > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > > > > > > Agreeing to ignore 13.2 (the rule that expressly states in its purpose statement that you are allowed to putt with the pin in or out) by canceling a player's right to remove the flagstick is clearly ignoring a rule. As previously posted, that's a DQ.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Do you really not see that? Or just wish it wasn't so? Like I said, do what you wish among like-minded people, but IMO it is useful to know what you're doing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far as posting goes, that's an entirely separate issue. Many rounds that are a DQ require posting, some are not allowed to be posted. Given your private rules, you should look into that with the USGA handicap department.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Player C in event one apparently did not have the choice removed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Plus the rule states 'The player must decide this before making the stroke, by either: •Leaving the flagstick where it is in the hole or moving it so that it is centred in the hole and leaving it there'. Before the round begins is before the stroke is made. They have not ignored the rule as they have made their decision for all strokes before the round is played and can change their mind without penalty stroke(s).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Relentlessly in error.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The USGA response is agreeing to leave the flag is not agreeing to ignore a rule. Sorry.

> > > > >

> > > > > What was the question you asked the USGA ? You are definitely allowed to post that.

> > > >

> > > > I asked if the group could agree before the round to play flag in for all 18 holes and specifically if it would be ignoring a rule to do so.

> > >

> > > But your original post on this was about was your COMMITTEE MANDATING the flag in (or was it out ?) for all players.

> > >

> > > THAT was the point of contention.

> >

> > That certainly was the way certain posters tried to steer it. As I recall it the **invite** was for people that wanted to try it out. If someone was against it they could choose not to play that event **or** could play the event and take the flag out without penalty strokes...… but not qualify for winnings. The last I checked the USGA was not in the habit of offering any advice on payouts. They did mention it would be a violation if someone was charged penalty strokes which if you read my posts you would find they would not be.

>

> Here is what *I* sent the USGA.

>

> _**"Can the Committee running an event under the Rules of Golf MANDATE that the flagstick stays IN (OR the flagstick always is taken out) for all putts by all players as part of the Conditions of Competition ?"**_

>

> Reply - No.

>

>

 

Lol. Great answer.

 

True story. In my afternoon 9 today. Playing partner had a bunker shot from a downhill lie in the back of the trap. To a downhill slope on the green. He clipped it perfectly. Flew high and one hoped in front of the pin. Hit the pin and ride it straight down in the hole.

I’m up next. I had a 20 ft pitch straight uphill. Clipped it perfect , hit and rolled out 5 feet or so. Hits the pin off center to the right and kicks it out. Stops 2 inches from the hole.

 

I’m not sure if it’s anymore than a flip of the coin. Both of those happened inside 30 seconds. ( his ball was still in the cup when I hit ).